No, No, No.

DesignerGal · Post by **DesignerGal** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:20 am

Hmmmmm. We're not all fat and lazy. I drive a Camry (a 4 door sedan). I drive it ONLY 12 miles a day. But I have to tell you..there isnt much public transportation where I live. I am in suburban Washington, about and hour south, so public transportation isnt accessible by all americans.

And I have to say also, there is something wrong when the oil companies have just reported earnings at $8 billion USD (not million) in the first 3 months of the year.

DesignerGal · Post by **DesignerGal** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:29 am

Scrat wrote:

I don't mean to run you into the ground but if you're angry about gas prices 12 miles is not far to go on a bike.

You cant ride bikes on the Highway, its illegal. And the main roads are dangerous. But thanks for the tip.

DesignerGal · Post by **DesignerGal** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:39 am

Scrat wrote: I get so angry about this subject. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We don't need the help of the politicians, we need to teach them and the oil companies a lesson.:-5

Lets do it. What shoudl I do? I only drive to and from work. Should I boycott the larger oil companies like all those emails I get say to do? Give some more ideas. I'm all for making a change.

And at least we only have Bushy for 1.5 more years.

DesignerGal · Post by **DesignerGal** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:54 am

Scrat wrote: Take a course on defensive bike riding. They have to have them there. A good bike will cost you about $200 and the gear about another $100. There are all kinds of alternatives. If you do start riding a bike also at first it will be very hard but once your body adjusts you will fell great.

I have a bike and I walk to work. I live 4 miles from where I work and I walk or bike 40 miles a week. I'm 42 and there are 20 yr old guys that can't compete with me.

Riding a bike is not much different safety wise than riding a motorcycle. Talk to BR, she knows a lot about it.

That was a fruedian slip wasnt it? And I am scared to death to get on a motorcycle. But I will research the bike riding anyway. I could stand to lose a couple of pounds.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:34 am

Scrat wrote: Anybody with even a dimwits knowledge of Econ 101 knows what the problem is with gas prices.

The problem is the American people. People who drive gas guzzling suburban assault vehicles. The people who do 90mph down the highway. The people who are too weak minded to simply get on a bus. Fat lazy Americans that can't get on a bike to go to work.

American people are the only ones that are going to change this situation. No one else, ESPECIALLY THE POLITICIANS!!!!

$100 REBATE!? How idiotic. How insulting, I can save myself thousands by screwing the oil companies right back. This is disturbing.

Yup, Yup, Yup. I agree on all points. Didn't read the article, but I've been following the story.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:39 am

And I suppose your saying that us Americans use up more gasoline than all of the worlds industry????

These huge facilities that employs the people of the world to put food on their tables.

Also, the people that use most of the gasoline are the same people who buy the gasoline. Seems to me if people are short on gas they should buy more of it, so as not to cry.

I think the problem is too many jealous crybabys who try and find something to complain about.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:42 am

Scrat wrote: Take a course on defensive bike riding. They have to have them there. A good bike will cost you about $200 and the gear about another $100. There are all kinds of alternatives. If you do start riding a bike also at first it will be very hard but once your body adjusts you will fell great.

I have a bike and I walk to work. I live 4 miles from where I work and I walk or bike 40 miles a week. I'm 42 and there are 20 yr old guys that can't compete with me.

Riding a bike is not much different safety wise than riding a motorcycle. Talk to BR, she knows a lot about it.

I bet the average American works 10 hours a day........and to think they will spend another 2-3 hours to ride to work........should we boycott sleep and family values too???

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:36 am

I don't get your point. People who are dissatisfied with the price of gas should just shut up & pay up?? That doesn't make sense, but it seems to be your message.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:48 am

My point is, is that Germany alone produced over 10 times as many automobiles as the next highest country(which im guessing would be Japan). To sit there and blame Americans for the extended use of gasoline in this country alone as to the reason of high gas prices is a personal issue with America itself. For one thing, If the world was worried about gas, then it wouldnt market gasoline and anything that is relative to it such as cars, etc, etc. Why isnt there a law to limit the amount of automobile production in the world??? Seems to me like the people who build these cars in such high numbers obviously benefits from the consumption of oil, but i dont hear there names being mentioned?

"Blame the Americans that will work"

"Dont blame the people who market it"

why?

"Because they are not American".

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 9:03 am

When I lived in Phoenix, I rode a bike exclusively for 8 years. I'm already tuning my bike up now. I have no problem with that. (Hey, and as for that "fat American stereotype, Scrat, I average 8 - 12 miles a day on pedometer, and most of the teachers I know are in pretty good shape. Now the kids? That's another story.)

But oil isn't just for gasoline. It's also for synthetic fibers and clothes, medicines, and especially plastics.

Even if we were to all ride bikes, how would our aircraft fly, and military vehicles and jets, and ambulances, and firetrucks? How could we ever do without plastics and medicines?

I don't see the oil problem getting any better any time soon for a lot of reasons.

I once ran a sophisticated computer simulation in college in an engineering class. We fed in every variable we could think of including research and development into new energy such as windpower and solar.

No matter how much we cranked up the variables, the oil on the planet always ran out within about a century from now.

DesignerGal · Post by **DesignerGal** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 9:59 am

Yeah, I dont really like the "fat lazy Americans" comments myself. Its a stereotype and it sucks.

minks · Post by **minks** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 10:13 am

Jives wrote: When I lived in Phoenix, I rode a bike exclusively for 8 years. I'm already tuning my bike up now. I have no problem with that. (Hey, and as for that "fat American stereotype, Scrat, I average 8 - 12 miles a day on pedometer, and most of the teachers I know are in pretty good shape. Now the kids? That's another story.)

But oil isn't just for gasoline. It's also for synthetic fibers and clothes, medicines, and especially plastics. Not to mention heating our homes for those of us in the northern hemi.

Even if we were to all ride bikes, how would our aircraft fly, and military vehicles and jets, and ambulances, and firetrucks? How could we ever do without plastics and medicines?

I don't see the oil problem getting any better any time soon for a lot of reasons.

I once ran a sophisticated computer simulation in college in an engineering class. We fed in every variable we could think of including research and development into new energy such as windpower and solar.

No matter how much we cranked up the variables, the oil on the planet always ran out within about a century from now.

Yep it is kind of obvious we are going to extract our fossil fuels till there are no more. Alternative power is key.

minks · Post by **minks** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 10:14 am

DesignerGal wrote: Yeah, I dont really like the "fat lazy Americans" comments myself. Its a stereotype and it sucks.
yeah so does "canadians live in igloos"

DesignerGal · Post by **DesignerGal** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 10:15 am

K.Snyder wrote: I bet the average American works 10 hours a day........and to think they will spend another 2-3 hours to ride to work........should we boycott sleep and family values too???

Yeah! What he said! We dont close down for 2 hour lunches and then have a siesta!;)

DesignerGal · Post by **DesignerGal** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 10:17 am

minks wrote: yeah so does "canadians live in igloos"

I never would have thought to associate Canadians with igloos. I dont think I have heard that before.

I hear what gread medical care you guys get and that violent crimes are pretty low (thanks to Farenheit 911). I want to move there but Hubby says no. Besides I tried getting a work visa once when I was 18. They laughed at me.

along-for-the-ride · Post by **along-for-the-ride** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 3:26 pm

Besides the higher cost of gasoline, the phrase "RECORD profits" hurts.

I enjoy bike riding, but not all the way to work and back. My hubby and I are using one vehicle and riding to work together....."car pooling".

Higher gasoline prices takes a bite out of the weekly budget like how much you can spend for groceries, medicine, and ,yes, recreation.

Those of us who make less than $9.00/hour really feel the bite.

This has just been my "two cents" worth.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:02 am

K.Snyder wrote: My point is, is that Germany alone produced over 10 times as many automobiles as the next highest country(which im guessing would be Japan). To sit there and blame Americans for the extended use of gasoline in this country alone as to the reason of high gas prices is a personal issue with America itself. For one thing, If the world was worried about gas, then it wouldnt market gasoline and anything that is relative to it such as cars, etc, etc. Why isnt there a law to limit the amount of automobile production in the world??? Seems to me like the people who build these cars in such high numbers obviously benefits from the consumption of oil, but i dont hear there names being mentioned?

"Blame the Americans that will work"

"Dont blame the people who market it"

why?

"Because they are not American".
It's not about blame, and it's not about making laws to force people to do anything.

It's about looking at a problem and - if it is important to you personally - doing something about it. For Scrat, it's walking & cycling, and encouraging others to do the same. For Peg, it's helping law enforcement by broadcasting Amber alerts as far and wide as possible.

To pick a cause and do what you can to affect it is a wonderful, powerful thing.

Post by **spot** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:18 am

K.Snyder wrote: My point is, is that Germany alone produced over 10 times as many automobiles as the next highest country(which im guessing would be Japan).Where on earth do you get figures like that?

Have a look at the table at the bottom of http://www.vda.de/en/aktuell/statistik/ ... index.html

2004 production figures, all road vehicles:

USA 11,960,354

Japan 10,516,258

Germany 5,569,954

France 3,655,889

United Kingdom 1,856,539

Spain 3,012,174

Italy 1,142,105

and other countries...

Total 62,763,447

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 8:28 am

Accountable wrote: It's not about blame, and it's not about making laws to force people to do anything.

Scrat wrote: Anybody with even a dimwits knowledge of Econ 101 knows what the problem is with gas prices.

The problem is the American people. People who drive gas guzzling suburban assault vehicles. The people who do 90mph down the highway. The people who are too weak minded to simply get on a bus. Fat lazy Americans that can't get on a bike to go to work.

American people are the only ones that are going to change this situation. No one else, ESPECIALLY THE POLITICIANS!!!!

Tell this to Scrat, who obviously has a problem with the everyday, family centered, hard working American.

Whos blaming who??

For anyone to blame the average American for the rise of gas prices is just simply a bitter self centered moron who needs to be checked.

Yeah blame the people that get up at 5am to go to work just because we need the gas to get to our jobs that takes us atleast 30min driving let alone riding a bike.

Please!

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 8:30 am

spot wrote: Where on earth do you get figures like that?

Have a look at the table at the bottom of http://www.vda.de/en/aktuell/statistik/ ... index.html

2004 production figures, all road vehicles:

USA 11,960,354

Japan 10,516,258

Germany 5,569,954

France 3,655,889

United Kingdom 1,856,539

Spain 3,012,174

Italy 1,142,105

and other countries...

Total 62,763,447

FIFA Germany 2006

EA Sports.

Sweet game

Post by **spot** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 8:36 am

K.Snyder wrote: FIFA Germany 2006

EA Sports.

Sweet gameThat's simple bad translation then - Germany alone will produce over 10 times as many *supporters* as the next highest country.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 8:40 am

So what people beleive is that the reason the gas prices are as high as they are, is because of our extended use of oil in automobiles alone??

I dont buy it.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 11:40 am

I have only skimmed this thread, so forgive me if I make observations or comments already stated.

I kind of agree with Scrat about the gas guzzling huge, so-called "impressive" SUV's. It's a status symbol, and nothing else. It's ego. I heard a couple people talking yesterday about how much it cost to fill their tanks, and one person spent $70 to fill her Hummer or whatever the hell monstrous beast she was driving.

What am I doing to help? I walk to work. Every day, rain or shine, snow, sleet, whatever. I can see my bar from my kitchen window so it's not a hardship at all. While not everyone has that luxury, I do and I take full advantage of it. Also, whenever possible, Bullet and I ride our motorcycles. We can fill up both our tanks for less than $15 and we get about 130 miles to a tank.

As for bicycle riding being comparable to motorcycle riding, I'm not sure what you mean by that Scrat. Could you expand a bit on what you're driving at? (Pun intended :yh_bigsmi )

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 12:10 pm

Your right, we are the big consumers and wasters. We are making progress in the hybrid market but its going to be slow. Some people love their trucks more than their wives. Like most things its going to take a crisis of proportional value to get people out of their beloved rv's and into something more suitable.

The auto makers are paying attention though, they can see where the future is headed and theyre waiting for demand.

Im pretty sure western Europe guzzles a few gallons of gas on their own as well.

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 12:14 pm

I drove up to south London today. 40% of the vehicles on the road were 4 wheel drives...why...for status, to be road bullies and to be irresponsible occupants of our planet. Makes me mad.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 12:17 pm

"Yeah its the big trucks that are waisting all the oil in the world"

"Not the countless other things that oil is used for"

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 12:18 pm

Scrat wrote: Family centered? You have to be joking. :yh_rotfl :yh_rotfl

Right on. Blame the suckers that buy a house 50 miles out from their job and go buy a suburban assault vehicle for their commute, they're the ones whining the loudest.

Nobody tries to buy a house 50 miles from where they work. This is just another attempt for you to slip in an irrelevant arguement to back up your own whining.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 12:22 pm

I can understand the unneeded big trucks guzzling up alot of gas.

But dont sit there and insult my intelligence by saying this is the only reason why gas prices are through the roof.

Get a life.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 1:35 pm

DesignerGal wrote: Hmmmmm. We're not all fat and lazy. I drive a Camry (a 4 door sedan). I drive it ONLY 12 miles a day. But I have to tell you..there isnt much public transportation where I live. I am in suburban Washington, about and hour south, so public transportation isnt accessible by all americans.

And I have to say also, there is something wrong when the oil companies have just reported earnings at $8 billion USD (not million) in the first 3 months of the year.

Exxon Mobile reported a profit of $8.4 billion dollars in the first quarter.

Oh, "but blame the SUV driving Americans" - what a joke.

People today are starting to buy cars that are easier on gas. The demand may be high in the U.S., but whats the ratio for SUV's(or "BIG TRUCKS") compared to smaller sadans?? 20-1?? 25-1??

If the prices are going up in compliance with the demand then why is Great Britain paying more for gas than Americans??

Give a kid a bucket of candy at once ,but scold him for eating all of it -- dont make sense

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 1:44 pm

Scrat wrote:

American people are the only ones that are going to change this situation. No one else, ESPECIALLY THE POLITICIANS!!!!

Yeah ok,

what about other countries' thriving economys, like chinas affect on high gas prices??

But i guess thats irrelevant because they are not Americans??

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 2:05 pm

Scrat wrote:

There's plenty of blame to go around, what this comes down to is personal decisions that people make over time in a cumulative manner.

Call it what you like, I'll call it collective dumbassery. **** poor planning in the least.

The solution is for Americans to smarten up and act like like people and not apes.

Heres a quote regarding a lot of oil companies and their greed.

"Many factors have contributed to the low inventories of most oil companies -- a general move towards greater efficiency and freeing of capital for other investments within the industry have caused many companies to lower their preferred reserve levels; last year's general strike in Venezuela and instability in Nigeria, as well as the war in Iraq, have forced oil companies to dip into their reserves to keep up with demand."

"The Foundation for Taxpayer and Consumer Rights has a handful of internal memos from Texaco, Chevron, and Mobil, all dated from the 1990s, detailing company plans to purposely reduce refining capacity to raise profits. The plan worked. From 1999 to 2004, American refiners increased their profits by a whopping 80%, from nearly $0.23 to $0.41 per gallon of gasoline. From the beginning of 1999 to the end of 2004, the retail price of gasoline went from about $0.98 to $1.84 per gallon."

And the terrorist attacks in Iraq, and Saudi Arabia on various oil companies doesnt help either. But I guess this is all irrelevant too?

Post by **spot** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 3:08 pm

K.Snyder wrote: Nobody tries to buy a house 50 miles from where they work. This is just another attempt for you to slip in an irrelevant arguement to back up your own whining.It's not irrelevant at all. Neither would blaming the rise of the Mall phenomenon in contrast to street shops be, but Scrat didn't get round to saying that yet.

You want to know why gas prices are rising? Because more people want it and production is finite. How do you cut your gas bill? Buy less.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 3:32 pm

spot wrote: It's not irrelevant at all. Neither would blaming the rise of the Mall phenomenon in contrast to street shops be, but Scrat didn't get round to saying that yet.

You want to know why gas prices are rising? Because more people want it and production is finite. How do you cut your gas bill? Buy less.

And the gas prices are high to limit the demand compared to the lack of oil being produced, which I can assure you isnt because of the average American working man who just wanted a big truck.

If the reason oil is scarce due to Americans and their "Big Trucks", then people have a lot more to worry about than just high gas prices because the world would run out 'Big Truck" or no "Big Truck"

pandemonium 2006

Post by **spot** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 4:23 pm

K.Snyder wrote: If the reason oil is scarce due to Americans and their "Big Trucks", then people have a lot more to worry about than just high gas prices because the world would run out 'Big Truck" or no "Big Truck"How very true that is. The USA contains 4% of the world's population but produces about 25% of all carbon dioxide emissions. The damage done by this pollution is rapidly becoming irreversable. The USA has not only left it too late to reverse, but appears set on deliberately luxuriating in what little time remains, fully conscious of the cost accumulating for their future generations.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 4:27 pm

spot wrote: How very true that is. The USA contains 4% of the world's population but produces about 25% of all carbon dioxide emissions. The damage done by this pollution is rapidly becoming irreversable. The USA has not only left it too late to reverse, but appears set on deliberately luxuriating in what little time remains, fully conscious of the cost accumulating for their future generations.

Theres a difference between the "USA" and the "Bulls and Bears".

Im all for preserving the forests of the world, as well as anything else that would help the cause.

Post by **spot** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 4:36 pm

K.Snyder wrote: ... as well as anything else that would help the cause.You mean cutting back on emissions? Or do you not think that would help? It's all about short-term profit lines in the bastion of capitalist free enterprise, that's what my granny told me.

I flew over the USA once. There's a thin brown line around four miles up, and I've never seen it over any other part of the planet. It's car exhaust.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 4:41 pm

spot wrote: You mean cutting back on emissions? Or do you not think that would help? It's all about short-term profit lines in the bastion of capitalist free enterprise, that's what my granny told me.

I flew over the USA once. There's a thin brown line around four miles up, and I've never seen it over any other part of the planet. It's car exhaust.

Yeah cut back on emissions sure. Tell us how to do that.

But also tell eastern Europe as well.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 4:51 pm

spot wrote: Or do you not think that would help?

I know what would help.

Everyone hold their breathe for the rest of their lives.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 4:56 pm

Oh, wait.

I know.

We can feed phytoplankton aphrodisiacs.

Post by **spot** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 4:59 pm

K.Snyder wrote: Yeah cut back on emissions sure. Tell us how to do that.

But also tell eastern Europe as well.CENTRALLY PLANNED EUROPE (EASTERN EUROPE): Since peaking in 1988 at nearly 1.4 billion metric tons of carbon, emissions have dropped 45% to 771 million metric tons of carbon in 2002.

The United States continues to be the largest single national source of fossil fuel-related CO2 emissions reaching an all-time high of 1592 million metric tons of carbon in 2002.

(http://cdiac.ornl.gov/trends/emis/em_cont.htm : Environmental Sciences Division, Carbon Dioxide Information Analysis Center, Oak Ridge National Laboratory, U.S. Department of Energy)

Why pick on Eastern Europe?

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:28 pm

spot wrote: CENTRALLY PLANNED EUROPE (EASTERN EUROPE): Since peaking in 1988 at nearly 1.4 billion metric tons of carbon, emissions have dropped 45% to 771 million metric tons of carbon in 2002.

The United States continues to be the largest single national source of fossil fuel-related CO2 emissions reaching an all-time high of 1592 million metric tons of carbon in 2002.

(http://cdiac.ornl.gov/trends/emis/em_cont.htm : Environmental Sciences Division, Carbon Dioxide Information Analysis Center, Oak Ridge National Laboratory, U.S. Department of Energy)

Why pick on Eastern Europe?

yes, yes, i know that. But what you are saying by this is that just because its not as high as the U.S that its ok??? Is theirs and as well as other parts of the worlds' C02 emissions gods gift to clown spit??

You act like I dont mind about the emissions as opposed to other countries' stats just because its America. Im all for the cleanup, but lets drop the blame game ok.

Also that stat only dropped as significantly due to the unification of Germany, thus the leaving of East Germany of that particular regions vulnerability pertaining to the stat book.

Germany a huge man. of automobiles.

Besides, doesnt Russia use the most gas in the world or am I wrong about that?

Post by **spot** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:37 pm

K.Snyder wrote: Germany a huge man. of automobiles.

Besides, doesnt Russia use the most gas in the world or am I wrong about that?The figures are easy enough to find, and no. And we did the thing about "Germany a huge man. of automobiles" earlier, the USA pushes out far more of the wretched things - what was the 2002 figure? USA 11,960,354, Germany 5,569,954? It's a question of scale, not blame. It's a question of whether there's an active desire to improve public transport, for example. Have you ever heard an American actually want a good regular bus service? I haven't got a car, I walk if I'm not pressed for time or I jump on a passing bus if I want to arrive faster than that. I just bought my ticket to London for next weekend - Ã‚£4 return. Why would I want to drive? I suspect that dislike of cars is unamerican, it would qualify as communist agitation if anyone actually thought of saying it.