Sharia law in the UK

[pantsonfire321@aol.com]

Does anyone know anything about Sharia law -

[Raven]

You get your head chopped off for adultry?

[pina]

There is no Sharia law in the UK, but the muslims do want to introduce it.

Great topic of discussion here.

[Rapunzel]

Ya know, I try VERY hard to be fair and not rascist, because that's how I believe we should all be!

But it REALLY pi55e5 me off when immigrants to our country try to introduce THEIR laws and traditions, but OUR laws and traditions are revoked because it may 'upset' them! :-5

My friends daughter is not allowed to say prayers in school or sing hymns or carols because a minority of immigrants of other religions "may not like it"!

I used to live in Golders Green in London, which is a highly Jewish orthodox area. In the local paper they stated that the whole Golders Green area should be designated as Jewish land and should obey Jewish, not English, law and customs! When a young Jewish man murdered a young English lad there was uproar because he was arrested and tried according to English law! They felt he should be tried and punished according to their rules and their standards!

If we live in ANYONE else's country, we are legally bound to obey their laws, yet they come here and try to negate or erase OUR laws whilst trying to bring their laws into practise here and expecting US to abide by them!

It's just TOO Bloody Much! :-5

Sorry if thats too strong, but....GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jason McCarty]

Rapunzel, I am with you 100% of the way.

[Bryn Mawr]

pina wrote: There is no Sharia law in the UK, but the muslims do want to introduce it.

Great topic of discussion here.


The local bank here offers accounts operated in accordance with Sharia law.

I know nothing of it though, but this link is interesting :-

http://www.guardian.co.uk/theissues/art ... 72,00.html

[Bill Sikes]

Diuretic wrote: Anyone is free to observe Sharia or any other religious law in Britain but it's always going to be inferior to the secular law of the state. And that's as it should be.


Got it in a nutshell. AOL ^n.

[koan]

Rapunzel wrote: My friends daughter is not allowed to say prayers in school or sing hymns or carols because a minority of immigrants of other religions "may not like it"!


I'm not sure about where you are, but in Canada the law prohibits the prayers and hymns as part of the opening ceremonies of a public school. Of course if a child wants to sing a hym on recess it would be fine. The law is about not forcing anyone to observe one specific religion.

That applies to any religious customs as well.

The separation of church and state is such a common ideal in "Western" countries that Sharia Law would only come about if the registered voters decided to vote in a party that believed in it by a majority government. And, in England, the Queen could always overrule.

[pantsonfire321@aol.com]

Rapunzel wrote: Ya know, I try VERY hard to be fair and not rascist, because that's how I believe we should all be!

But it REALLY pi55e5 me off when immigrants to our country try to introduce THEIR laws and traditions, but OUR laws and traditions are revoked because it may 'upset' them! :-5

My friends daughter is not allowed to say prayers in school or sing hymns or carols because a minority of immigrants of other religions "may not like it"!

I used to live in Golders Green in London, which is a highly Jewish orthodox area. In the local paper they stated that the whole Golders Green area should be designated as Jewish land and should obey Jewish, not English, law and customs! When a young Jewish man murdered a young English lad there was uproar because he was arrested and tried according to English law! They felt he should be tried and punished according to their rules and their standards!

If we live in ANYONE else's country, we are legally bound to obey their laws, yet they come here and try to negate or erase OUR laws whilst trying to bring their laws into practise here and expecting US to abide by them!

It's just TOO Bloody Much! :-5

Sorry if thats too strong, but....GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I agree with you 100% - is it true that under Sharia law a girl can be married at the age of 9 .

[Rapunzel]

koan wrote: I'm not sure about where you are, but in Canada the law prohibits the prayers and hymns as part of the opening ceremonies of a public school. Of course if a child wants to sing a hym on recess it would be fine. The law is about not forcing anyone to observe one specific religion.

That applies to any religious customs as well.

The separation of church and state is such a common ideal in "Western" countries that Sharia Law would only come about if the registered voters decided to vote in a party that believed in it by a majority government. And, in England, the Queen could always overrule.


Wow! Thanks for the support guys, I thought I'd get knocked!

Koan,

This child attends a Church of England school and prayers and hymns have been a part of morning assembly since the Reformation, nearly 500 years ago! (Not that the school was there then, but thats how long the CofE and its laws have existed!)

The banning of prayers and hymns occured a year ago when a handful of Muslim kids joined the school!

England is ruled by Parliament. The Queen is merely a figurehead, a tourist attraction & a National Institution. She no longer rules the Country. :-2

[abbey]

A good link...

http://www.cfr.org/publication/8034/islam.html

[Sheryl]

Wouldn't the Sharia law take away the seperation of church and state?



Also why do folks leave their home country, then want the same laws/rules applied to thier new home? (Did that make sense)

[Sheryl]

Thanks Diuretic. I know this is off topic, but I'm not very familiar with Australian law. What are the differences between the English law and Aborginal law?

[Sheryl]

Thanks for answering my question though. Government (even American) has never been my strongest subject.

[koan]

Rapunzel wrote:

Koan,

This child attends a Church of England school and prayers and hymns have been a part of morning assembly since the Reformation, nearly 500 years ago! (Not that the school was there then, but thats how long the CofE and its laws have existed!)

The banning of prayers and hymns occured a year ago when a handful of Muslim kids joined the school!


yes a similar thing happened here though I'm not sure which religion started it, it might well have been atheists. Private schools are able to pray to whichever God they choose but public schools may not favour one version of God over another.



England is ruled by Parliament. The Queen is merely a figurehead, a tourist attraction & a National Institution. She no longer rules the Country. :-2


I realize she is mostly a figurehead but "royal assent" allows her to veto any law she chooses. That she doesn't do it doesn't mean she can't.

[koan]

Here's the local legend from my area of the world:

Ontario's "Sharia Law" Controversy:

How Muslims Were Hung Out to Dry

by Richard Fidler

"A lie can travel halfway around the world," the American writer Mark Twain once said, "while the truth is putting on its shoes." That statement could apply to the recent phony debate over "sharia tribunals" in Ontario.

Odds are that if you consulted the average man or woman in the street on the matter, you would learn that the largest province in Canada had come within an inch of allowing fundamentalist Muslims to institute mandatory "sharia" law, bypassing legislation designed to protect the rights of women and children, eliminating the separation of church and state, and possibly exposing Canadians to the harsh legal punishments found in some Islamic countries. The Muslim scheme, you would be told by many, was turned back only by a vast campaign spearheaded by secular Muslims, feminists, labor unions, and progressives who forced the government to retreat and to ban all resort to religious leaders or principles in resolving legal disputes. It was a great victory for progressive public opinion, a major defeat for reactionary Muslims.

That's more or less the official story, reinforced by the mass media and believed by many on the left, as well. But it is largely fictitious. And it is important to understand the true story, both because the issues at stake in this controversy may well arise in new and similar contexts and because the stench of the anti-Muslim prejudice stirred up by the "anti-sharia" campaign lingers on. The Islamophobic campaign against "sharia tribunals" has undermined efforts to build a firm alliance with Muslims and other minorities in the fight against imperialist war and domestic war-induced repression, much of it directed first and foremost against members of the Muslim community.

[Galbally]

I think that the main point is that in Britain and the rest of Europe the law is secular and not based on religious orthodoxy, be it the Catholic Canon, Sharia, or Jewish Orthodoxy. Religion is a matter for the individual, not a foundation of equity before the law (thank god) (sorry bout the pun). There are no grounds on which anyone should expect to be treated under an alien rule of law because of their own religious beliefs, if they can't agree with such terms then they should relocate forthwidth to countries with law systems that they prefer.

[pantsonfire321@aol.com]

So if Sharia law came into effect here in the UK how would it work - would the Muslim community expect to be exempt from British law

We do already have sharia banks here in london.

[pantsonfire321@aol.com]

Diuretic wrote: It would work in much the same way Canon Law does now, it would regulate the personal lives of adherents but it wouldn't displace the ordinary civil and criminal law already in place. Galbally is right on point. The English common law and indeed European "civil" (derived from Roman Law) law systems wouldn't be affected unless various legislatures wanted them to be. They are secular systems because while secular systems of law quite properly include every single person in the jurisdiction, various religious legal sytems should only affect adherents to those religions. I'm not Jewish therefore the legal system of Judaism doesn't affect me. I won't be in trouble with the Rabbi for breaching dietary rules, for example. The Mufti at the mosque in my area won't be after me for not turning up at Friday prayers because I'm not a Muslim.

As for Islamic banks - I wonder if they take non-Muslim clients, from what I know about them they're worth looking at

Im curious to - what about some aspects of Sharia like loosing limbs and murder by stoning wouldnt such an act then be a criminal act .

[samanthauk23]

Rapunzel wrote: Ya know, I try VERY hard to be fair and not rascist, because that's how I believe we should all be!

My friends daughter is not allowed to say prayers in school or sing hymns or carols because a minority of immigrants of other religions "may not like it"!






Not really a question of being racist as we're discussing religious beliefs ....

But yeah, I know what you mean - my lil bro's school did away with the use of the word "christmas" and instead used "WINTERVAL" so as not to offend the non-christians! Mental!

[samanthauk23]

Call it what you will, I think its terrible!

Changing CHRISTmas to Winterval?? Well that doesn't include everyone...what about keeping christians happy?? No one gives a crap about that! I'm not Christian myself, but Christmas is a Christian festival and christianity the predominant faith in England....so why change it?? Imagine if we went to the Middle East and started forcing them to put christmas trees up in December?? They'd be blood running in the streets!!!!

They even petitioned the council to try to stop christmas lights being put up in the high street in case it causes offence.

Personally I doubt it's the non-christians causing a lot of the fuss, but the left wingers!!!