Pope steps in dodo

zinkyusa · Post by **zinkyusa** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:03 pm

Seems the Pope has caused outrage in the Islamic community by his quoting from an old obscure book:

The pope quoted from a book recounting a conversation between 14th-century Byzantine Christian Emperor Manuel Paleologos II and a Persian scholar on the truths of Christianity and Islam.

“The emperor comes to speak about the issue of jihad, holy war, Benedict said. “He said, I quote, ’Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.’

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14846353/

OpenMind · Post by **OpenMind** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:15 pm

Very tactful.

zinkyusa · Post by **zinkyusa** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:20 pm

OpenMind wrote: Very tactful.

Well he did:(

OpenMind · Post by **OpenMind** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:27 pm

zinkyusa wrote: Well he did:(

It's alright for him. He's got a bulletproof car.:rolleyes:

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:29 pm

OpenMind wrote: It's alright for him. He's got a bulletproof car.:rolleyes:

Wonder why we need bulletproof cars....:yh_think

zinkyusa · Post by **zinkyusa** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 1:03 pm

Hamster wrote: Zinkster...what was he relating it to? Or what was he talking about at the time?

I cant seem to find this out...:-5

good question, we wouldn't want the press to start setting any bad precedents by actually quoting something in context..I imagine a fuller text of his remarks will eventually come out now that the headline has been grabbed..

weber · Post by **weber** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 1:21 pm

Hamster wrote: Yeah he probably said.."Now this text I am about to quote should be completely ignored" :wah:

Oh, for sure:yh_rotfl :yh_rotfl

weber · Post by **weber** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 1:36 pm

Hamster wrote: Well its true though-isn't it? These types of headlines are designed for maximum impact and sales/subscriptions etc...

How many hits would you get on the top news websites in the US with:

"Pope totally agrees with Islamic leaders and everyone had a cup of tea"....:wah:

Oh I totally agree with you. It just made me laugh at the truth of your statement. I am still laughing because the pope ought not have done that. You are just funny Hamster.

zinkyusa · Post by **zinkyusa** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 1:37 pm

weber wrote: Oh I totally agree with you. It just made me laugh at the truth of your statement. I am still laughing because the pope ought not have done that. You are just funny Hamster.

she's quite the little furball isn't she;)

weber · Post by **weber** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 1:38 pm

Hey Hamster

for sure meant something different to me when I first posted it. Going back and reading it, I see why you reacted. Sometimes my brain doesn't give me the right words.:-3

weber · Post by **weber** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 1:40 pm

Hamster wrote: Aaww thanks....I think!

Oh oh. I'm leaving. I was laughing at the truth you were speaking. The world is backwards.

OpenMind · Post by **OpenMind** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 1:47 pm

Hamster wrote: No honestly Weber its fine-I am just feeling argumentative tonight!!

Who's next??? :wah:

You're looking good tonight, Hamster.:-6

OpenMind · Post by **OpenMind** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:05 pm

Hamster wrote: Why thanks OM! :-4

*Note to self...add OM to Christmas Card list*

Wouldn't it be nice to have a small meet up for Christmas. A few willing members.

(I think this thread has been hijacked anyway.):D

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:11 pm

zinkyusa wrote: Seems the Pope has caused outrage in the Islamic community by his quoting from an old obscure book:

The pope quoted from a book recounting a conversation between 14th-century Byzantine Christian Emperor Manuel Paleologos II and a Persian scholar on the truths of Christianity and Islam.

“The emperor comes to speak about the issue of jihad, holy war, Benedict said. “He said, I quote, ’Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.’

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14846353/

Okay, I must not be following. Why is this bad?

He quoted from a book, it wasn't something he said of his own and especially what is wrong with that last part I have bolded? Should we respect someone who demands people die for religion and if they don't follow it?

Maybe I'm not seeing the whole thing? :-3

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:12 pm

OpenMind wrote: You're looking good tonight, Hamster.:-6

She looks good every night, tonight should be no exception....

OpenMind · Post by **OpenMind** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:22 pm

K.Snyder wrote: She looks good every night, tonight should be no exception....

:D

Oh, but KS, I didn't say that tonight was any exception.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:30 pm

OpenMind wrote: Oh, but KS, I didn't say that tonight was any exception.

I'll take your word for it....

Although when one comments on how beautiful she is, I myself see it as no surprise, as it should be expected from day to day. :yh_wink

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:38 pm

Hamster wrote: Er...natural blonde here....ya lost me!

To say you're beautiful is like telling a wealthy man he is rich....it comes as no surprise.

OpenMind · Post by **OpenMind** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 3:34 pm

K.Snyder wrote: I'll take your word for it....

Although when one comments on how beautiful she is, I myself see it as no surprise, as it should be expected from day to day. :yh_wink

I expect nothing and then I am delighted every day when Hamster appears.

(Hammy, stay out of this:sneaky: )

Lulu2 · Post by **Lulu2** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 3:36 pm

Believing himself "infallible," the Pope CANNOT step in "doo doo". Instead, he delivers "the message."

zinkyusa · Post by **zinkyusa** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 4:21 pm

Lulu2 wrote: Believing himself "infallible," the Pope CANNOT step in "doo doo". Instead, he delivers "the message."

ah but Lulu you forget it's holy dodo;)

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 4:55 pm

If he stepped in it it would be somewhat like flattened brown mush. LOL This says nothing about what it does to the shoes.

Shalom

Ted:-6

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 4:56 pm

OpenMind wrote: I expect nothing and then I am delighted every day when Hamster appears.

(Hammy, stay out of this:sneaky: )

Good -- I expected as much

Lulu2 · Post by **Lulu2** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 5:08 pm

"ah but Lulu you forget it's holy dodo"

++++++++++++ As in "HOLY S#$T!?"

weber · Post by **weber** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 5:55 pm

Lulu2 wrote: "ah but Lulu you forget it's holy dodo"

++++++++++++ As in "HOLY S#$T!?"

Oh Lulu, you are too funny

I love that Holy ****

I typed it out, will it show????:yh_rotfl :yh_rotfl

Lulu2 · Post by **Lulu2** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 5:56 pm

It won't.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 3:40 pm

Getting back to the whole pope offend Islam thing, I think its pretty much a sign of the times that any kind of debate (even a religious one) about Islam by non-muslims is percieved for better or worse by many in the Islamic world as an offence or even sacrilidge. I think that Benedict XVI was being very specific in the words he chose as he was talking about religion in general and violence, but quoted the 14th century emperor as violence related to various forces within islam are very current and taxing ones for western people. I think that there is a lot of high politics going on here, one of the defining aspects of both Christianity and Islam is that they are different and see each other as being "different", and its always useful when expounding your own views to have an opposite idea to contend with. I'm not sure if muslims see Christianity itself as being their enemy, though extremists are in general against modern secular western civilization, which is also for reasons of history generally what used to be called "Christendom", but I think that Christians are increasingly soming to see Islam as something inherently opposed to their own beliefs and militant in its outlook, and I suppose much of what is happening at the present time supports this view.

Personally I think its depressing, and for me anyway it exposes one of the major problems in doctrinal religion in that if you truly believe in the absolute truth of say Catholicism or Islam then there isn't really much room for debating the issues as they are both supposedly based on the word of god, and thats that. To be honest I think that we have entered another phase of the religious conflicts that have dogged people since people starting thinking about such things and that this will play itself out until people once more get sick of dogma, irrationality, mysticism, violence and its all its consequences and stop again, for a while. Where that leaves us god knows (forgive the pun), but I'm not optimistic about the next couple of decades. Still, no point in getting too upset, thats kinda the way things have always been. Its just the heady mix of religion and advanced weapons that disturbs me.

Lulu2 · Post by **Lulu2** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 3:46 pm

What Galbally said.

double helix · Post by **double helix** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 3:57 pm

Well, the elected leader of Iran seems to think all Christians are the enemy of Muslums. Not so bad as Jews, whom he and all Muslums feel should be wiped from the face of the Earth as they are worse than Pig. The Christians on the other hand, they are a little better than pigs and can be tolerated if kept out of sight and they don't bother anyone.

I am having a hard time here with the hypocricy of the Muslum faith. No one outside of the faith is allowed to comment on Muslums activities or beliefs. No jokes, no reading of obscure texts as from the Pope, no discussion of their beliefs. When they find someone doing so there is a huge uprising, protests, threats of reltaliation. Whats up with that?

When Muslum come out with statements such as the above first pargraph, or publish cartoons of Christians and Jews being made a fool of as was done in August, they don't get anything. No flack, no repermands, no protesters or retalitory behavior.

Now what does that say for Muslums? And what does that say of the rest of the world? Are we all so afraid of the jihadists that we are ready to dumb down our behavior to fit Muslum desires? Thats pretty scary stuff right there.

And yet, when you take a look around the world right now, at this minute, what do you see. Everywhere there is contention, death and war, Muslums are involved. Kurdistan, Africa, Aisia, Middle East etc and so forth.

The rest of the world needs to wake up and smell the coffee befor we're all being forced to put burkas on the women and girls and serve thick turkish coffee with a bowl of lambs balls rolled in rice on the side.

One thing we all need to realize is these Muslums are not afraid of death. They embrace death. They seek it out, as in strapping bombs to themselves and blowing up innocent people so they can be martyerd.

How many of you belive that God welcomes these suicide bombers to his side?

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 4:30 pm

Double:-6

All faiths have their extremists and the Muslims are no different. The moderate Muslims will tell you that this extremism is not part of true Islam. The same holds true for Christianity.

Shalom

Ted:-6

Katy1 · Post by **Katy1** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 11:31 am

This has made me really annoyed (although not as 'angered' as the Muslim world so it seems!) The text which the Pope quoted was 14th century and was used as an example of how religion shouldn't be associating itself with violence, to convert or otherwise. To get so outraged and be threatening violence because of a passage (taking completely out of context) which was promoting peace between faiths seems almost laughable, if it wasn't so frustratingly depressing.

What mostly irritated me was the protests by fundamentalism Muslims (all men I note, maybe the women were to busy being subservient in the home) in London today. One bloke was interviewed and made barely veiled threats to non-Muslims who don't accept that they 'take their religion very seriously' and don't hold the religion in reverence. He said that under Islam these types of comments were 'capital offences' and that us non-Muslims should bear that in the forefronts of our minds. There various banners being thrust AK47-like in the air, with angry slogans plastered accross them (reminds me of my favourite Muslim placard that I saw on TV once that said 'Behead those who proclaim Islam as violent'...irony anyone?), now would that be allowed if it were a right wing

organisation protesting in such an open way, perhaps in front of a mosque? No bloody way, because however abhorrent I find parties like the British National Party, their views aren't given the same freedom to be aired as those who preach intolerance and violence in the name of religion. On the contrary, it seems we even need to invent a new term to encapsulate this - 'Islamaphobia'. Does it really need explaining why many moderate people in the UK are starting to feel a little niggled by all this?

Of course, we have to remember that there are many moderate Muslims also, who are probably even more peeved by their misrepresentation around the world by extreme Muslims, but you don't seem to find many of these 'moderates' about to speak candidly and in public, condemning their peers' revolting and unholy behaviour, and this is what we need I think to help ease some of the tension that is almost boiling over at the moment.

Katy:mad:

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 1:34 pm

katy:-6

The Muslim Association of Canada has spoken out quite forcefully against violence. I am certainly happy that they did. It goes some way to easing tensions here though not entirely. We do have our white supremecist idiots here as well. Some folks just never seem to grow up and this includes those on all sides.

Shalom

Ted:-6

Katy1 · Post by **Katy1** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 1:51 pm

Ted wrote: katy:-6

The Muslim Association of Canada has spoken out quite forcefully against violence. I am certainly happy that they did. It goes some way to easing tensions here though not entirely. We do have our white supremecist idiots here as well. Some folks just never seem to grow up and this includes those on all sides.

Shalom

Ted:-6

Hi Ted,

I think that our Muslim community leaders et al should come forward. I can't over estimate the tension in this country, especially in cities with very high Asian to white ratios. Unless we nip it in the bud now I can forsee really bad race riots like, or even worse than those we saw in the 1980's.

All this so called 'multiculturalism' and 'diversity' to many in this country is just the wishful rhetoric of a desperate government that is rapidly running out of pc ideas. Personally the government backing and funding of faith schools is attributing to what's becoming a very divided nation as well. How can they be promoting togetherness with one hand, whilst happily ushering people of differing faiths into schools which narrow rather than broaden tolerence?

Katy

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 2:21 pm

katy:-6

I know what you mean. Here in Canada there is one faith school system only, that is funded to some extent and that is the Roman Catholic system. I have mixed feelings abut that. I think there should only be one publicly funded school system and if others choose to go to another system then let them pay for it.

Multiculturalism has worked rather well in Canada. I wouldn't say it is problem free but the tolerance level here is quite high. There does, unfortunately, seem to be some anti-semitic feelings that result in attacks on Jewish schools and synagogues. This is both unfortunate and could be classed as childish if it were not so serious. In one way or another we are all brothers and sisters in this world and it is time to grow up and get on with it.

The US has chosen to follow the "melting pot" idea. To me multiculturalism makes for a more interesting and dynamic country. One of the reasons I love Vancouver is its great variety of cultures and their festivals. I think it is superb.

Shalom

Ted

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 2:30 pm

Katy:-6

I would add one thing. I do wish that those who immigrate to Canada would leave their political baggae where they came from. We do not need fund raising for terrorism anywhere. Nor do we need the likes of what happened in the Air India situation. That was an act of terrorism perpetrated on Canadian soil.

Shalom

Ted:-6

Lulu2 · Post by **Lulu2** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 4:29 pm

"No-one loves me"

++++++++++ Oh, yes! WE DO!:)

double helix · Post by **double helix** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 4:30 pm

There's multicultralism in Alaska, all over america, too. Generally we are very tollerant here with few problems occuring with cultural clashes. Lots of gangs killing one another but they are all within one cultural group.

We have a large Muslum population here, some of whom work within the Catholic Nursing Home where I work. Over all they are good people, the ones I have met. Some in the community are with a charity group I workwith also.

One rotten apple in a basket can spoil the whole bunch, to make a cheezy quote:-2