To smack, or not to smack....?

Katy1 · Post by **Katy1** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:40 am

Hi all,

I was just wondering how any of you felt about smacking (or other physical chastisement) children as part of their disciplining. It's a hot topic here in the UK and is still legal as long as it is done in a measured way and doesn't leave marks (apparently) although children's charities are always calling for it to be made illegal.

I was smacked as a child, I can still remember a few of them, the worst usually came from me shouting 'that didn't hurt!' and then running off with my Mum in hot pursuit!)

Were any of you smacked/spanked as children and did it harm you or do you think it's OK?

Katy:)

zinkyusa · Post by **zinkyusa** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:50 am

Katy1 wrote: Hi all,

I was just wondering how any of you felt about smacking (or other physical chastisement) children as part of their disciplining. It's a hot topic here in the UK and is still legal as long as it is done in a measured way and doesn't leave marks (apparently) although children's charities are always calling for it to be made illegal.

I was smacked as a child, I can still remember a few of them, the worst usually came from me shouting 'that didn't hurt!' and then running off with my Mum in hot pursuit!)

Were any of you smacked/spanked as children and did it harm you or do you think it's OK?

Katy:)

I was physcially disciplined as a kid by an alchoholic parent and got very mixed messages. I think if it is done it has to be done without rage, and depends on the kid. I don't believe that if it is done without anger that it psychologially hurts most kids (but again it depends on how sensitive the kid is). I rarely used on my oldest and my 8 year old has only had one spanking from me and one from his mom.

Katy1 · Post by **Katy1** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:58 am

zinkyusa wrote: I was physcially disciplined as a kid by an alchoholic parent and got very mixed messages. I think if it is done it has to be done without rage, and depends on the kid. I don't believe that if it is done without anger that it psychologially hurts most kids (but again it depends on how sensitive the kid is). I rarely used on my oldest and my 8 year old has only had one spanking from me and one from his mom.

One of the arguments that non-smackers put forward is that it shows a lack of control but I don't think that that is always the case. My Mum smacked me and I think this was because she had undiagnosed post natal depression that went on for some years and tbh she doesn't remember most of it. I would never smack my children out of anger like you said, because that's more to do with the parents' mental state rather than trying to 'teach' the child anything.

Katy

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 7:12 am

This is a hot button issue for me. I remember being hit so hard I pissed all over myself. How's that for instilling dignity in your kid? I think hitting (spanking is just a dumb euphemism to make it sound better) a kid is stupid and fearfully wrong. It shows it's okay to hit people. Heck, if your *parents* do it, what's to stop you from doing it? If you hit in anger that's lack of self control. If you wait till you're calm and you still hit, that's just abuse and can be even worse because you had other options. This doesn't mean I wouldn't like to hit some kids myself. I know if I ever saw a kid hurting an animal, I would probably go to jail. So there's my honest disclaimer. But I personally feel there is no reasonable or acceptable excuse for ever hitting a child. Period. Its hould be illegal everywhere. I especially think it's wrong for men to hit daughters and that shows the girl that men are superior and beastly. Not to mention men are too strong to be wailing on little girls.

Katy1 · Post by **Katy1** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 7:19 am

RedGlitter wrote: This is a hot button issue for me. I remember being hit so hard I pissed all over myself. How's that for instilling dignity in your kid? I think hitting (spanking is just a dumb euphemism to make it sound better) a kid is stupid and fearfully wrong. It shows it's okay to hit people. Heck, if your *parents* do it, what's to stop you from doing it? If you hit in anger that's lack of self control. If you wait till you're calm and you still hit, that's just abuse and can be even worse because you had other options. This doesn't mean I wouldn't like to hit some kids myself. I know if I ever saw a kid hurting an animal, I would probably go to jail. So there's my honest disclaimer. But I personally feel there is no reasonable or acceptable excuse for ever hitting a child. Period. Its hould be illegal everywhere. I especially think it's wrong for men to hit daughters and that shows the girl that men are superior and beastly. Not to mention men are too strong to be wailing on little girls.

Being hit like you just said is child abuse plain and simple Redglitter. Whoever hit you should have gone to gaol for it.

I think some parents use smacking as the single form of discipline which is lazy and damaging.

zinkyusa · Post by **zinkyusa** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 7:25 am

Sorry to hear about your experiences glitter that was child abuse no other way to say it...

I do disagree about your statement that physical discipline of a child when you're calm is necessarily child abuse. I try to avoid blanket statements about because I think it really depends on the personality and emotional make-up of the child. There are some kids who are so sensitive that probably any physical discipline is abusive, but there other's like myself where a spanking was the only way you were going to get my attention and make me think about the consequences of my actions before I did them.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 7:41 am

zinkyusa wrote: but there other's like myself where a spanking was the only way you were going to get my attention and make me think about the consequences of my actions before I did them.

That's what my dad always said to me. "It's the only way I'll get your attention." It wasn't though. I was never a "bad" child. It was just the only way he *knew* to get my attention. I feel adults should have and use better alternatives. Especially if a kid already has problems, why add to them with more esteem-killing physical force?

My dad's stepfather (we use that word loosely in our house) beat him with boards that had nails in them. And other things. My dad may have had his own way of doing things as a kid and a teenager but I doubt he was ever wild. He was belittled verbally as well. So when I came about, this is all he knew to handle me. That's what he was shown growing up so he "disciplined" me that way. Notw ith boards midn you, but with belts and his hand which is the size of two hands on an average man. And he hit until it stopped feeling good to him. How many parents hit because it feels good to release the frustration kids cause? I think most do. Otherwise, you'd find different ways that actually work and are constructive rather than something that tears down a child's self respect.

When I got to a certain age, I realized I couldn't stand the sound of a crying baby ro a screaming kid and I would want to beat hell out of them. I have my father's temperament. This is why I chose not to have children. for their safety.

By the way, I get along fine with my dad now and I have forgiven him. he admits he was wrong and it's a very painful subject for us both. But the scars are still there and always will be.

My beautiful late mom used to hit me too. I was 14 once and I slapped her for hitting me. She never hit me again.

After I grew up, we all got along fine. Thing is, I was a good girl, never got into trouble, so now I think I deserved all that because I wasn't even that bad.

My conclusion: it's all around bad to hit small humans.

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:04 am

RedGlitter wrote: This is a hot button issue for me. I remember being hit so hard I pissed all over myself. How's that for instilling dignity in your kid? I think hitting (spanking is just a dumb euphemism to make it sound better) a kid is stupid and fearfully wrong. It shows it's okay to hit people. Heck, if your *parents* do it, what's to stop you from doing it? If you hit in anger that's lack of self control. If you wait till you're calm and you still hit, that's just abuse and can be even worse because you had other options. This doesn't mean I wouldn't like to hit some kids myself. I know if I ever saw a kid hurting an animal, I would probably go to jail. So there's my honest disclaimer. But I personally feel there is no reasonable or acceptable excuse for ever hitting a child. Period. Its hould be illegal everywhere. I especially think it's wrong for men to hit daughters and that shows the girl that men are superior and beastly. Not to mention men are too strong to be wailing on little girls.

My sister and i was physically abused to by our stepfather. He was a drug addict and very absusive. My sister missed school for over week because she had the impression of a belt buckle across her cheek. I was beat till my butt bled one Fourth of July because I had wet my pants. But my BM (bio-mom) was only married to the guy for bout 3 years and then I was again living with my grandma, while she was out chasing other guys and partying. Not gonna go off on that tangent. However my grandma did spank, but they were few and far between. And I usually had done something to deserve it, back-talking, doing something I knew better than to do ect.

Now I'm married with 2 kids, and I do occasionally spank my children. But we have a paddle that is used for disclipine and it's stated before hand how many swats are going to be given. I think there's a difference between a spanking and a beating.

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:16 am

Let me first say that my parents did alot for me. They were at every sporting event or school happening. They were not drunks or drug abusers. Now I bet My brothers and me got at least 1,000 belt strappings. My Mom and Dad did'nt have any problem smacking you in the face or kicking you in the ass, telling me I was going to have to go to the ass doctor to get his shoe surgically removed from my ass. When I was 18 yrs old he hit me in the mouth for coming home late. I told him that will be the last time he hits me again without me hitting back. He never hit me again but did think about it a time or two. I have raised two boys and still have a 16 yrold son. I have never hit,spanked etc.etc any of them. My oldest is a 6th Grade teacher my second is in middle of becoming a fire fighter. My third son wrestled for the State Team in nationals as a Freshman. As I was growing up getting smacked around I always said I would never hit my kids I would even tell my parents that after getting hit. They would just say to wait I will see.So the cycle can stop.Kids can be raised and suceed without getting smacked. JMO

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:27 am

Pinky wrote: OMG!!!! If I ever have kids and anyone tried to get a belt or anything else them, the next place they'd be going would be six feet under the patio!:mad:

Yep. I always knew if I got married, and my husband hit our kids, I'd kill him. Or at least damage him in his sleep. And if another man hit my child? He'd be with Jimmy Hoffa.

I'm reading everyone's replies, trying to remain openminded. Not to pick on any one person, but when Sheryl mentioned backtalking and deserving to be hit for it, I couldn't help wondering if revocation of privileges wouldn't have worked just as well?

Thanks all for the empathy with my experiences but I want to make it clear that I love my parents and they were good parents to me. They had their own growing up to do as did I. In some ways we all grew up together. It's not liek anyone burned me with cigarettes or horrid stuff like that. I just wanted to make that clear.

In all honesty, I was bullied terribly as a child by other kids. I never fought back but maybe twice and then they left me alone. I know if I saw a child hitting or spitting on another kid, I'd leave marks on him. I know that;s wrong because I'm an adult but I am being honest here. And if I saw a kid hurting an animal, I would lose it. Those are the only times I would consider it "justifiable."

Arnold Layne mentioned slapping the hand of a small kid heading for the light socket or the stove. I think that is something else. You don't want the kid to get hurt, that is your fast and probably normal reaction. I don't see that teh same as spanking or hitting a child.

In grade school and junior high I was "swatted" with a wooden paddle. Once for kicking a kid who had been kicking me. (Done by a male teacher with female witness) Once for chewing gum in class (done by a man in a closed room with another male teacher present-very wrong) and once by a female teacher because it was 120 degrees (I live in the desert) and I left the track to get a drink of water which she considered leaving class without permission.

I consider all of these incidents unacceptable. Detention or a book report or whatever would have served just as well and kept my dignity intact. I knwo that if a teacher "swatted" my kid, i would tear him or her apart. After I sued them.

What is everyone else's opinion on school swatting?

Katy1 · Post by **Katy1** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:30 am

One of the reasons that I posted this was because I recorded a documentary last night about smacking and i started to watch it in the hour I get when the little ones are napping. I say I started to watch it because I gave up in annoyance after about three quarters of an hour. I thought that it would be an interesting watch, showing different sides to parenting but it started of focusing in on the 'smackers' and it was truly appalling. All it showed were parent swearing and beating their children, slapping them hard accross the face and assaulting them with kitchen implements. I think the makers of the programme must have really tried hard to find the scummiest, scuzziest parents in the whole of the UK. That juxtaposed with attractive, well known 'celebrities' saying how dreadful it all was and how parents who smack should be had up for abuse. Talk about an agenda....

Katy

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:37 am

When I was going through school swatting was common. It was somewhat a badge of honor for some of us. Later in High school some of the teachers got sadistic with it. I had a teacher tell me he was going to give me three swats for something I actually did'nt do. This teacher had bruised my ass before and did'nt like me. So I refused his swats. They kicked me out of school, I went home and got beat, car taken away and all privledges taken away. My parents told me my teachers are like God to me. They never believed me about not doing what the teacher said I did. Two weeks later The teacher had a mental break down. My parents went to see him in hospital . He told my parents that I in fact did not do what he accused me of but he was just mad about a smart ass remark I had made. My parents came home told gave me my car keys back and told me what he had said. Then just walked off. I said "Thanks for the apology" Smack. Bad move eh?

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:40 am

RedGlitter wrote: What is everyone else's opinion on school swatting?

There should be no need for swotting at school; if the subjects are properly

taught and learnt, then answering them in exams. will be easy.

Katy1 · Post by **Katy1** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:43 am

Bill Sikes wrote: There should be no need for swotting at school; if the subjects are properly

taught and learnt, then answering them in exams. will be easy.

:yh_rotfl

Katy1 · Post by **Katy1** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:45 am

Seriously though, am I being stupid or are you saying that schools in the US can still use corporal punishment?

Katy

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:46 am

And no teachers do not need to be hitting kids. If they can't out smart the kids then what are they doing trying to teach them.

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:49 am

YZGI wrote: When I was going through school swatting was common. It was somewhat a badge of honor for some of us. Later in High school some of the teachers got sadistic with it. I had a teacher tell me he was going to give me three swats for something I actually did'nt do. This teacher had bruised my ass before and did'nt like me. So I refused his swats. They kicked me out of school, I went home and got beat, car taken away and all privledges taken away.

*Car taken away*??? How old were you?

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:50 am

Pinky wrote: Teachers hitting kids is against the law over here...mad:

It's a shame.. I'm sure that iin some cases it would be useful.

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:57 am

Bill Sikes wrote: *Car taken away*??? How old were you?

16 or 17

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:03 am

YZGI wrote: 16 or 17

And still being smacked! I find that quite extraordinary!

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:06 am

Pinky wrote: Jeez, if you can't sort a class out without hitting one of them, you're a crap teacher and shouldn't be doing the job!

Discipline is a big problem in many schools, as well as the calibre of many

teachers, that is true. Still, that's rather apart from the question of "hitting"

them. You can't even *touch* them without risk, far less grab them by the

goolies.....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/nor ... 370032.stm

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:07 am

Bill Sikes wrote: And still being smacked! I find that quite extraordinary!
By that age it was pretty much slaps and back hands across the jaw. It was not that I probably could'nt take him. I guess it was respect. At 18 I decided enough is enough. Oh and they were devout Christians attending the Church of Christ.

cherandbuster · Post by **cherandbuster** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:08 am

Katy1, this is an excellent thread

I grew up with a sister and a brother in a two-parent family. We were all very close and loving. And yes, I got hit. With a belt. A lot.

When I say that now, it sounds just terrible.

But I was the most stubborn kid of the three of us, and I would be pretty verbal right back to my parents. I remember having welts on my back from some of those swattings.

If anyone now asked me if I suffered child abuse, I would say NO! Back 35 or 40 years ago, that was *standard* behavior for parents to slap, spank or use a belt to discipline their children. However, when I read what I just typed, I *cringe* that my parents did that.

Do I have any mental scars from it? I can most gladly say NO. I just accepted that that was the way it was done back then. I've grown into a well-adjusted, loving, accepting adult.

Nowadays, however, what I went through would qualify as child abuse.

Katy1 · Post by **Katy1** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:10 am

Bill Sikes wrote: And still being smacked! I find that quite extraordinary!

Me too. By that token here in England you could legally go to work all day, come home to your own flat, have sex with your partner, smoke a fag and then have you Mum or dad come round and give you a smack for being naughty.

Tbh by that age it's more like assault on an adult isn't it?

Katy1 · Post by **Katy1** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:15 am

cherandbuster wrote: Katy1, this is an excellent thread

I grew up with a sister and a brother in a two-parent family. We were all very close and loving. And yes, I got hit. With a belt. A lot.

When I say that now, it sounds just terrible.

But I was the most stubborn kid of the three of us, and I would be pretty verbal right back to my parents. I remember having welts on my back from some of those swattings.

If anyone now asked me if I suffered child abuse, I would say NO! Back 35 or 40 years ago, that was *standard* behavior for parents to slap, spank or use a belt to discipline their children. However, when I read what I just typed, I *cringe* that my parents did that.

Do I have any mental scars from it? I can most gladly say NO. I just accepted that that was the way it was done back then. I've grown into a well-adjusted, loving, accepting adult.

Nowadays, however, what I went through would qualify as child abuse.

Oh and :-6

CherandBuster!

cherandbuster · Post by **cherandbuster** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:16 am

Katy1 wrote: Oh and :-6

CherandBuster!

Hiya Katy

Nice to meet you, my new friend :guitarist

Katy1 · Post by **Katy1** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:17 am

Pinky wrote: Yup...I know!:rolleyes:

Still, there are other ways of going about things. You get to know when a pupil is about to disrupt. Attention can be diverted away so that it's back on the task in hand. Besides, behaviour is usually only an issue when they get bored.

I don't do boring lessons!

Yeah, you can just smell the upcoming descent LOL

Katy

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:18 am

Swats are still given in my son's school, but I rarely hear of a kid getting them. I just know they are because they were listed on the papers I had to sign at the beginning of school.

Here's my opinion on the matter of using a paddle, instead of a belt, switches ect. And my opinion on how a spanking is different than abuse. When my children are given swats (few and far between, the paddle collects dust more than anything) it is explained before hand why they are given swats and how many. For example, the last time Zakk recieved swats, he recieved them for riding around the block on his bike. He knew he was not allowed to go farther than the corner on his bike. He had been grounded from his bike before for going outside the boundry. So I explained what he had done to deserve getting swats and told him he was getting three swats. I never raised my voice, just calmly explained and followed through.

Abuse on the other hand is when a person in anger starts hitting thier child with whatever is handy and whereever they can hit the child. Slapping a child in the face I consider abuse too. Telling a child to shut up or I'm gonna give you something to cry about after you've already just beat them is abuse.

This is my opinion, I'm sure alot of you are gonna disagree, and that's ok.

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:19 am

Katy1 wrote: Me too. In the UK you could technically go to work all day, come home to your own flat, have sex with your partner, smoke a fag and then have you Mum or dad come round and give you a smack for being naughty by that token!

Well, you could, I suppose, but...

Katy1 wrote: Tbh by that age it's more like assault on an adult isn't it?

By that age, I should have thought the effectiveness would be zero, or even

negative, that is counter-productive. For me, a smack is for very young children

only, and should be a rare event! I can remember being smacked - maybe twice?

Katy1 · Post by **Katy1** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:39 am

tmbsgrl wrote: When Tim and I say " I'm gonna give ya something to cry about" it's a warning before hand- which means knock it off right now!!!

That's so funny. That's the exacts words my Mum used to say....did you read the same handbook? LOL!

:wah:

minks · Post by **minks** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:54 am

NO is my vote to smacking....

A child needs to be taught right from wrong, a parent needs to take the time to deal with it. Tell the child no, remove the child from the situation, use simple explanations at the level the child understands and repeat until the child stops.

I say no smacking because children learn by example, and believe me it is not pretty to see a child haul off and smack a sibling or a peer thinking that is the way to deal with a problem. Nothing is learned from being hit.

Lulu2 · Post by **Lulu2** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:23 am

Sorry to read how many of you were "battered" as children. So was I and I know the damage it does to the psyche is far worse than the damage done to the body.

BUT...when my daughter reached for the stove, I slapped her hand. There's a difference between warning and rage.

I'd hate like the devil to see it made ILLEGAL, for goodness' sake! What's next?

OF COURSE all mothers say "I'll give you something to cry for!" It's like Bill Cosby's "mothers' curse." ALL MOTHERS ON THE PLANET SINCE THE BEGINNING OF TIME have said....

"May you someday have a child....JUST LIKE YOU!"

:wah:

Lulu2 · Post by **Lulu2** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 7:06 pm

WOOO HOOO! No WONDER the girl needs more sleep!

double helix · Post by **double helix** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 12:00 am

Katy1 wrote: Hi all,

I was just wondering how any of you felt about smacking (or other physical chastisement) children as part of their disciplining. It's a hot topic here in the UK and is still legal as long as it is done in a measured way and doesn't leave marks (apparently) although children's charities are always calling for it to be made illegal.

I was smacked as a child, I can still remember a few of them, the worst usually came from me shouting 'that didn't hurt!' and then running off with my Mum in hot pursuit!)

Were any of you smacked/spanked as children and did it harm you or do you think it's OK?

Katy:)

Smaked, beat, yelled at, punished. Of course. Did it work? NO.

I went the opposit with mine. I rarely spanked, or yelled. Instead, they had rules and consequences. Did it work. **** NO.

Well, not really true. For the most part we were obediant kids as long as mom was within hearing. And of my two children I was tougher on my son than my daughter. Result was that my daughter had a hard time throgh the teens and ended up on the street for a few months doing meth.

My son never really did rebel, but has had a harder time maturing. They are both doing well now and I have grandkids from both.

Over here in the US, we have childrens services. You catch your kid doing something really bad and try to spank them, all they have to do is tell a teacher, doctor or neighbor that you hit them. Your kids will be taken, put in foster care for six month at least, while the agency does their investigation.

This happend to me with my 14 year old daughter.

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 1:36 am

double helix wrote:

Over here in the US, we have childrens services. You catch your kid doing something really bad and try to spank them, all they have to do is tell a teacher, doctor or neighbor that you hit them. Your kids will be taken, put in foster care for six month at least, while the agency does their investigation.

This happend to me with my 14 year old daughter.

That is a major problem with an absolute ban, isn't it... just a simple allegation

may result in an action which affects the child far, far more than the supposed

smack, and can also lead to blackmail of individuals by the child. It happens.

cherandbuster · Post by **cherandbuster** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 4:20 am

double helix wrote: And of my two children I was tougher on my son than my daughter. Result was that my daughter had a hard time throgh the teens and ended up on the street for a few months doing meth.

My son never really did rebel, but has had a harder time maturing. They are both doing well now and I have grandkids from both.

Hi DH

I'm sorry you went through this difficult time with your children -- it must have been so hard for you.

I'm glad you've got grandchildren now. You don't have to raise them, you *just* have to love them :-4