posted by scrat
Senator Norm Coleman said: “For the sake of our national security, the U.S. must ensure that the sensitive nuclear technology that we share with partner countries does not fall into the hands of the Iranians.
The Iranians have demonstrated that they are deceitful, obstructionist and bent on destroying
Israel and all of Western civilization. We know where this path is going to lead. Aiding Iran to become a nuclear power, even inadvertently, is unacceptable,“ he said.
Do americans really fall for this crap? Surely after being conned about Iraq they are less gullible in believing what they are being told.
Coldwar part two?
Coldwar part two?
Scrat wrote: You sent me a PM awhile back about that but I never remembered to respond. Sorry for that.
I think that a good percentage of people do believe that in some form. In many ways Americans are very gullible. Keep in mind that most Americans have never left the country and have next to no real world experience. Logically some of us know that the conquest of America by open warfare is totally impossible.
The vast majority of Americans don't care enough to educate themselves about this so do not respond with anything other than instinct. Then you have to worry about the people that buy plastic sheeting and duct tape when they are told to.
This all works through the propaganda machine of the media.
S'aright no offence taken.
Surely most of you must know the idea is ridiculous? From the outside it looks like bush is hyping Americans up to go to war against Iran leaving no room for other options and regardless of the long term consequences. The only ones that can stop that are Americans themselves. I just find it hard to credit that they can be fooled in to seeing Iran as a military threat to the US.
I think that a good percentage of people do believe that in some form. In many ways Americans are very gullible. Keep in mind that most Americans have never left the country and have next to no real world experience. Logically some of us know that the conquest of America by open warfare is totally impossible.
The vast majority of Americans don't care enough to educate themselves about this so do not respond with anything other than instinct. Then you have to worry about the people that buy plastic sheeting and duct tape when they are told to.
This all works through the propaganda machine of the media.
S'aright no offence taken.
Surely most of you must know the idea is ridiculous? From the outside it looks like bush is hyping Americans up to go to war against Iran leaving no room for other options and regardless of the long term consequences. The only ones that can stop that are Americans themselves. I just find it hard to credit that they can be fooled in to seeing Iran as a military threat to the US.
Coldwar part two?
I don't think things are as bad as portrayed in the numerous posts. I see a number of unchallenged premises which I think are false. The last two elections in the US have been very partisan and very close. We are most definelty a divided country along some issues but IMO it's just the natural flow of things. Having lived through the 60's I've seen the opposite extreme and just view the way the US is now as a swing to the right. There are many many educated and liberal Americans still around, their voice have been drowned out for the last six years but they are still here. Most people I talk to do not view Iran as a military threat directly to the US; however, they are very afraid that the extremist theocracy in Iran willl continue to support and arm terrrorists. The ulimate fear being providing them with a nuclear weapon. I think it is a realistic concern but not an immediate one. I don't think you will see an American attack on Iran (unless Iran should start it) in the near future because we are so bogged down in Iraq. You will see a push for sanctions and more saber rattling by the Bush Administration I think. Polls indicate Americans have lost support for continuing the war in Iraq and are very concerned with economic conditions now. Another war would be suicidal for the Republican party. I think we will see a tilt back to the middle in the US in the mid-term elections and either a democratic president or a more moderate republican president elected in the presedential elections. I'm actually feeling more optimistic for the first time in six years..
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
Coldwar part two?
Scrat wrote: I also want to point out that peace in the eyes and mind of the average American means security.
What is transpiring between Russia and America now is the destruction of the myth that we won the cold war and are now the sole superpower in the world.
Once again, America and Russia are at odds. If you look at the situation America once again is trying to impose its will on other nations, not just Russia. China, Iran, India and numerous other nations.
This not going to gain security for Americans in general, the ultra rich and well off yes but when the next arms race happens its American taxpayers that will sacrifice.
The attitudes of Americas "manifest destiny" oriented people are going to xcause more trouble than it is worth.
Actually they seem to be determined to wind up china as well. How about Russia and China forget their differences in the face of increasing american aggression?
It does seem that the military option is now the first diplomtic tool rather than the last resort. The problem with sabre rattling is that sooner or later somebody calls your bluff.
posted by zinkyusa
Having lived through the 60's I've seen the opposite extreme and just view the way the US is now as a swing to the right. There are many many educated and liberal Americans still around, their voice have been drowned out for the last six years but they are still here. Most people I talk to do not view Iran as a military threat directly to the US; however, they are very afraid that the extremist theocracy in Iran willl continue to support and arm terrrorists.
The only thing wrong with that is that Iran had nothing to do with the terrorist attack on america. Left alone it's unlikely they would bother trying to make one but any country being thrteatened will protect itself. All current policy does is keep the theocracy in power. It's a classic tactic of any dictatotial govt is create an outside enemy to justify quelling opposition. If youi have a ready made bogey man so much the better.
What is transpiring between Russia and America now is the destruction of the myth that we won the cold war and are now the sole superpower in the world.
Once again, America and Russia are at odds. If you look at the situation America once again is trying to impose its will on other nations, not just Russia. China, Iran, India and numerous other nations.
This not going to gain security for Americans in general, the ultra rich and well off yes but when the next arms race happens its American taxpayers that will sacrifice.
The attitudes of Americas "manifest destiny" oriented people are going to xcause more trouble than it is worth.
Actually they seem to be determined to wind up china as well. How about Russia and China forget their differences in the face of increasing american aggression?
It does seem that the military option is now the first diplomtic tool rather than the last resort. The problem with sabre rattling is that sooner or later somebody calls your bluff.
posted by zinkyusa
Having lived through the 60's I've seen the opposite extreme and just view the way the US is now as a swing to the right. There are many many educated and liberal Americans still around, their voice have been drowned out for the last six years but they are still here. Most people I talk to do not view Iran as a military threat directly to the US; however, they are very afraid that the extremist theocracy in Iran willl continue to support and arm terrrorists.
The only thing wrong with that is that Iran had nothing to do with the terrorist attack on america. Left alone it's unlikely they would bother trying to make one but any country being thrteatened will protect itself. All current policy does is keep the theocracy in power. It's a classic tactic of any dictatotial govt is create an outside enemy to justify quelling opposition. If youi have a ready made bogey man so much the better.
Coldwar part two?
Scrat wrote: I disagree.
We're one step away from what the Soviet Union was 60 years ago and further back. This administration is definitely being run along the lines of the Communist party. Ie you're with us or you're against us. No where in our capitol is dissent (new ideas) tolerated nor constructive discussion (getting things done) taking place.
Corruption is rampant in all levels of government that is obvious and in some cases glaring. If this is the natural flow of things then we are rapidly headed towards what Germany was in the 30s if not there already.
The politcal system in this country is broken.
I don't think so scrat. The republicans are on their way out IMO..I agree there is a lot of corruption but that is nothing new in any system of government (since human beings are invloved).
I don't think we are anywhere near where Germany or Russia were prior to the Nazis and Communists. In spite of the Bush administration there is a lot of dissent and disagreement and we have a long history of democracy and strong institutions in place. Also we are in much better straits economically than either of those countries..
I don't think the political system is broken it will survive Bush fine and this country will move on.
We're one step away from what the Soviet Union was 60 years ago and further back. This administration is definitely being run along the lines of the Communist party. Ie you're with us or you're against us. No where in our capitol is dissent (new ideas) tolerated nor constructive discussion (getting things done) taking place.
Corruption is rampant in all levels of government that is obvious and in some cases glaring. If this is the natural flow of things then we are rapidly headed towards what Germany was in the 30s if not there already.
The politcal system in this country is broken.
I don't think so scrat. The republicans are on their way out IMO..I agree there is a lot of corruption but that is nothing new in any system of government (since human beings are invloved).
I don't think we are anywhere near where Germany or Russia were prior to the Nazis and Communists. In spite of the Bush administration there is a lot of dissent and disagreement and we have a long history of democracy and strong institutions in place. Also we are in much better straits economically than either of those countries..
I don't think the political system is broken it will survive Bush fine and this country will move on.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
Coldwar part two?
posted by GMC
The only thing wrong with that is that Iran had nothing to do with the terrorist attack on america. Left alone it's unlikely they would bother trying to make one but any country being thrteatened will protect itself. All current policy does is keep the theocracy in power. It's a classic tactic of any dictatotial govt is create an outside enemy to justify quelling opposition. If youi have a ready made bogey man so much the better.
Maybe, maybe not.....The kind of statements made by their president don't really support your premise IMO.
The only thing wrong with that is that Iran had nothing to do with the terrorist attack on america. Left alone it's unlikely they would bother trying to make one but any country being thrteatened will protect itself. All current policy does is keep the theocracy in power. It's a classic tactic of any dictatotial govt is create an outside enemy to justify quelling opposition. If youi have a ready made bogey man so much the better.
Maybe, maybe not.....The kind of statements made by their president don't really support your premise IMO.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
Coldwar part two?
zinkyusa wrote: posted by GMC
Maybe, maybe not.....The kind of statements made by their president don't really support your premise IMO.
Left without outside pressure there would be calls for reform and moderation in political life. Very few can stomach a strict religious regime for very long. Sooner or later people will start taking steps to change things. The ayatollah got back because he promised to be better than the shah. The war with Iraq kept him there and now outside pressure is keeping a theocracy in place. IMO.
Imagine a right wing christian govt in america. How long before they got kicked out? but with an outside pressure then people will put up with a lot out of a sense of nationalism. Actually some of the christian right in america give me the heebie jeebies as much as islamic fundamentalists. At least so far in the UK religon is kept out of politics.
Maybe, maybe not.....The kind of statements made by their president don't really support your premise IMO.
Left without outside pressure there would be calls for reform and moderation in political life. Very few can stomach a strict religious regime for very long. Sooner or later people will start taking steps to change things. The ayatollah got back because he promised to be better than the shah. The war with Iraq kept him there and now outside pressure is keeping a theocracy in place. IMO.
Imagine a right wing christian govt in america. How long before they got kicked out? but with an outside pressure then people will put up with a lot out of a sense of nationalism. Actually some of the christian right in america give me the heebie jeebies as much as islamic fundamentalists. At least so far in the UK religon is kept out of politics.
Coldwar part two?
posted by gmc
Actually some of the christian right in america give me the heebie jeebies as much as islamic fundamentalists
Yeah, me to.:-3
Actually some of the christian right in america give me the heebie jeebies as much as islamic fundamentalists
Yeah, me to.:-3
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
Coldwar part two?
zinkyusa wrote: posted by gmc
Yeah, me to.:-3
Just clinked on your bat out of curiosity and got a fright when your picture appeared. Nothing wrong with the picture just a bit unexpected.
Yeah, me to.:-3
Just clinked on your bat out of curiosity and got a fright when your picture appeared. Nothing wrong with the picture just a bit unexpected.
Coldwar part two?
gmc wrote: Just clinked on your bat out of curiosity and got a fright when your picture appeared. Nothing wrong with the picture just a bit unexpected.
LOL, sorry d/n mean to frighten you...
LOL, sorry d/n mean to frighten you...
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
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bigdumbswede
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Coldwar part two?
zinkyusa wrote: I don't think so scrat. The republicans are on their way out IMO..I agree there is a lot of corruption but that is nothing new in any system of government (since human beings are invloved).
I don't think we are anywhere near where Germany or Russia were prior to the Nazis and Communists. In spite of the Bush administration there is a lot of dissent and disagreement and we have a long history of democracy and strong institutions in place. Also we are in much better straits economically than either of those countries..
I don't think the political system is broken it will survive Bush fine and this country will move on.
How might we get rid of a neo-fascist regime once it is firmly in place? How shall we rely on the average American voter to vote sensibly? The average American voter is not doing his homework when it comes to the Bush regime. The average American voter is sitting home picking his nose and watching America's Top Model or listening to nonsense spewed forth from the mouths of Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Really.
Personally, I resented this administration from the very start for its condescending habit of questioning the patriotism of anyone who questioned them. This whole govt. has gotten a little too Orwellian for my taste.
How might we avoid putting another administration in place such as the one we have? I really have very little faith in the electoral process after the Florida fiasco. And then there was Ohio in 2004. Anybody read about the kids over at Princeton University who have developed software to hack Diebold voting machines? One might call this a defect in our voting machines. Or perhaps its not a defect, but an added feature. This has also been enlightening:
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/st ... _be_hacked
Once you get someone like Bubble Boy in office, how do you ever get rid of him now that we have altered our method of casting and tabulating ballots?
I don't think we are anywhere near where Germany or Russia were prior to the Nazis and Communists. In spite of the Bush administration there is a lot of dissent and disagreement and we have a long history of democracy and strong institutions in place. Also we are in much better straits economically than either of those countries..
I don't think the political system is broken it will survive Bush fine and this country will move on.
How might we get rid of a neo-fascist regime once it is firmly in place? How shall we rely on the average American voter to vote sensibly? The average American voter is not doing his homework when it comes to the Bush regime. The average American voter is sitting home picking his nose and watching America's Top Model or listening to nonsense spewed forth from the mouths of Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Really.
Personally, I resented this administration from the very start for its condescending habit of questioning the patriotism of anyone who questioned them. This whole govt. has gotten a little too Orwellian for my taste.
How might we avoid putting another administration in place such as the one we have? I really have very little faith in the electoral process after the Florida fiasco. And then there was Ohio in 2004. Anybody read about the kids over at Princeton University who have developed software to hack Diebold voting machines? One might call this a defect in our voting machines. Or perhaps its not a defect, but an added feature. This has also been enlightening:
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/st ... _be_hacked
Once you get someone like Bubble Boy in office, how do you ever get rid of him now that we have altered our method of casting and tabulating ballots?