Myth & Understanding
I have been reading about mythology written by Joseph Campbell. In his attempt to make it possibly for the reader to comprehend how myth works he speaks about the human ability to ‘make-believe’.
He speaks of the universality of childhood make-believe and of how this same characteristic is exhibited in human rituals. For example he uses the Catholic Church practice of mass when the priest changes the wine and bread into the body and blood of Christ. In other words it seems to be inherent in humans to make-believe and in the process to truly believe and in truly believing experiences a form of ecstasy.
Such is probably our experience of understanding. In the process of trying to understand I create a model and then somewhere in this process of creating and modifying my model I pass to the point of believing the truth of my model thus the feeling of ecstasy.
In an attempt to explain to the novice the meaning of myth Campbell says that the “grave and constant in human suffering may, and sometimes does, lead to an experience that is the apogee of our life. This apogee experience is ineffable (not capable of expression). Campbell considers this to be true because it is verified by individuals who have had such an experience.
“And this experience, or at least an approach to it, is the ultimate aim of religion, the ultimate reference of all myth and rite.
“The paramount theme of mythology is not the agony of quest but the rapture of a revelation.
Myth Understanding
Myth Understanding
Such is probably our experience of understanding. In the process of trying to understand I create a model and then somewhere in this process of creating and modifying my model I pass to the point of believing the truth of my model thus the feeling of ecstasy.
Or in the process of trying to understand, we genuinely enter into the field of faith thus allowing our God to touch our hearts. Thats another possible scenario.
Or in the process of trying to understand, we genuinely enter into the field of faith thus allowing our God to touch our hearts. Thats another possible scenario.
I AM AWESOME MAN
Myth Understanding
coberst wrote: Myth & Understanding
In an attempt to explain to the novice the meaning of myth Campbell says that the “grave and constant in human suffering may, and sometimes does, lead to an experience that is the apogee of our life. This apogee experience is ineffable (not capable of expression). Campbell considers this to be true because it is verified by individuals who have had such an experience.
“And this experience, or at least an approach to it, is the ultimate aim of religion, the ultimate reference of all myth and rite.
“The paramount theme of mythology is not the agony of quest but the rapture of a revelation.
Thank you for this, Coberst. I have attempted to read Campbell on numerous occasions but find a lot of his writing quite difficult to grasp.
I'm interested to read what you say because to me, suffering is a breaking down of the conditioning, the ego, which can ultimately lead to an experience of incredible, inexpressible beauty...perhaps a taste of the mysticism that can sometimes be lacking in formal religion.
In an attempt to explain to the novice the meaning of myth Campbell says that the “grave and constant in human suffering may, and sometimes does, lead to an experience that is the apogee of our life. This apogee experience is ineffable (not capable of expression). Campbell considers this to be true because it is verified by individuals who have had such an experience.
“And this experience, or at least an approach to it, is the ultimate aim of religion, the ultimate reference of all myth and rite.
“The paramount theme of mythology is not the agony of quest but the rapture of a revelation.
Thank you for this, Coberst. I have attempted to read Campbell on numerous occasions but find a lot of his writing quite difficult to grasp.
I'm interested to read what you say because to me, suffering is a breaking down of the conditioning, the ego, which can ultimately lead to an experience of incredible, inexpressible beauty...perhaps a taste of the mysticism that can sometimes be lacking in formal religion.
Live the questions now. Perhaps you will then gradually, without noticing it, live along some distant day into the answers...Rainer Maria Rilke
Myth Understanding
Myth, the “mother of arts, cannot be understood by reason but by emotional “impact. Joe tells me, here in the beginning, that myth is an art form that can be understood by its impact upon me. Just as myth impacted the primitive (and everyone I guess) so I can understand it only if I use an entirely different way of understanding than I used to understand the “conceptual metaphor.
Evidently an understanding can be created by more than one method. Can I will an impact? Can I find a means to become impacted? How does one set a stage for self-impact not through reason but through, not through feeling, but through ‘what’?
Evidently an understanding can be created by more than one method. Can I will an impact? Can I find a means to become impacted? How does one set a stage for self-impact not through reason but through, not through feeling, but through ‘what’?
Myth Understanding
[QUOTE=coberst
Can I will an impact? Can I find a means to become impacted? How does one set a stage for self-impact not through reason but through, not through feeling, but through ‘what’?
I don't believe "one" does, or can set a stage for it and hence the "method" is immaterial. Because if it's within one's control, then it's just more of the conditioned self, more of the known and there's no room for the ineffable...
Can I will an impact? Can I find a means to become impacted? How does one set a stage for self-impact not through reason but through, not through feeling, but through ‘what’?
I don't believe "one" does, or can set a stage for it and hence the "method" is immaterial. Because if it's within one's control, then it's just more of the conditioned self, more of the known and there's no room for the ineffable...
Live the questions now. Perhaps you will then gradually, without noticing it, live along some distant day into the answers...Rainer Maria Rilke
Myth Understanding
I can summon "impact" at will. Its a combination of state of mind and emotional willingness.
I AM AWESOME MAN
Myth Understanding
Nomad wrote: I can summon "impact" at will. Its a combination of state of mind and emotional willingness.
I think that self-actualization is the means to prepare our self to understand, and understanding is a rare instance when intellect and emotion combine for that tipping point whne impact happens.
Abraham Maslow defined a hierarchy of needs to be:
1) Biological and Physiological (water, food, shelter, air, sex, etc.)
2) Safety (security, law and order, stability, etc.)
3) Belonging and love (family, affection, community, etc.)
4) Esteem (self-esteem, independence, prestige, achievement, etc.)
5) Self-Actualization (self-fulfillment, personal growth, realizing personal potential, etc.)
This hierarchy makes us conscious of the obvious fact that we did not fret about the absence of self-esteem if we did not already have security nor did we worry about security if we did not have water to drink or air to breath.
“Maslow says there are two processes necessary for self-actualization: self exploration and action. The deeper the self exploration, the closer one comes to self-actualization.
"A musician must make music, an artist must paint, a poet must write, if he is to be at peace with himself. What a man can be, he must be. This is the need we may call self-actualization ... It refers to man's desire for fulfillment, namely to the tendency for him to become actually in what he is potentially: to become everything that one is capable of becoming ..."
I think that the area in which Western society fails most egregiously is in the matter of an intellectual life after schooling. We have a marvelous brain that goes into the attic after schooling is complete and is brought out only occasionally on the job or when we try to play bridge or chess.
It appears to me that the fundamental problem faced by most Western democracies is a lack of intellectual sophistication of the total population. Our colleges and universities have prepared young people to become good producers and consumers. The college graduate has a large specialized database that allows that individual to quickly enter the corporate world as a useful cog in the machine. The results display themselves in our thriving high standard of living, high technology corporate driven life styles.
We are excellent at instrumental rationality and deficient at developing the rationality and understanding required for determining normative values. It seems to me that our societies are not prepared intellectually for the demanding task ahead. The only solution seems to be a change that will significantly increase the intellectual sophistication of the society as a whole. We need a rising tide of intellectual sophistication and Self-Actualization might be the way for our adults to add an intellectual life to their acquisitions.
To get an idea about S-A you might examine http://www.performance-unlimited.com/samain.htm You can do a Google and find other sites that you might find more interesting.
I think that self-actualization is the means to prepare our self to understand, and understanding is a rare instance when intellect and emotion combine for that tipping point whne impact happens.
Abraham Maslow defined a hierarchy of needs to be:
1) Biological and Physiological (water, food, shelter, air, sex, etc.)
2) Safety (security, law and order, stability, etc.)
3) Belonging and love (family, affection, community, etc.)
4) Esteem (self-esteem, independence, prestige, achievement, etc.)
5) Self-Actualization (self-fulfillment, personal growth, realizing personal potential, etc.)
This hierarchy makes us conscious of the obvious fact that we did not fret about the absence of self-esteem if we did not already have security nor did we worry about security if we did not have water to drink or air to breath.
“Maslow says there are two processes necessary for self-actualization: self exploration and action. The deeper the self exploration, the closer one comes to self-actualization.
"A musician must make music, an artist must paint, a poet must write, if he is to be at peace with himself. What a man can be, he must be. This is the need we may call self-actualization ... It refers to man's desire for fulfillment, namely to the tendency for him to become actually in what he is potentially: to become everything that one is capable of becoming ..."
I think that the area in which Western society fails most egregiously is in the matter of an intellectual life after schooling. We have a marvelous brain that goes into the attic after schooling is complete and is brought out only occasionally on the job or when we try to play bridge or chess.
It appears to me that the fundamental problem faced by most Western democracies is a lack of intellectual sophistication of the total population. Our colleges and universities have prepared young people to become good producers and consumers. The college graduate has a large specialized database that allows that individual to quickly enter the corporate world as a useful cog in the machine. The results display themselves in our thriving high standard of living, high technology corporate driven life styles.
We are excellent at instrumental rationality and deficient at developing the rationality and understanding required for determining normative values. It seems to me that our societies are not prepared intellectually for the demanding task ahead. The only solution seems to be a change that will significantly increase the intellectual sophistication of the society as a whole. We need a rising tide of intellectual sophistication and Self-Actualization might be the way for our adults to add an intellectual life to their acquisitions.
To get an idea about S-A you might examine http://www.performance-unlimited.com/samain.htm You can do a Google and find other sites that you might find more interesting.