The Rise Of Moderate Muslims....and pretenders!
The Rise Of Moderate Muslims....and pretenders!
It's good to see real moderate Muslims get a foothold.
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Suresh Gupta
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The Rise Of Moderate Muslims....and pretenders!
Who really is a moderate Muslim is a very big question.
It is right that ideological side of the war on terror is making progress though little slow. But it is still an achievement in view of difficult-to-change thought process of muslims in general.
It is right that ideological side of the war on terror is making progress though little slow. But it is still an achievement in view of difficult-to-change thought process of muslims in general.
The Rise Of Moderate Muslims....and pretenders!
sarasara wrote: India and Pak are doing well in this respect thanks to Pakistans greatest ever leader who was born in India and Indias leader who was born in Pakistan.
Allthough I repeat that Indians generally have been very unhelpful and continue to be unhelpful in their attitude to War on Terror abroad.
Many younger American Muslims, though not so far British Muslims, are really moving forward in a positive way.
The main problem as I see it is the cultural shift in the last 30 years away from the Sufi perspective in Islam (which arose in Persia through a marriage between Persian and Islamic civilisation) and the move towards Radical Islamofascism due in the main to political failure in the Muslim and Persian world.
Anything that can be done to promote the writings of Maulana Rumi, Shams-i-Tabriz, Hafiz or Sheik Farid, Rabia of Basra etc, among younger Muslims would help. And this is absolutely not happening anywhere.
But currently there is no real attempt to bridge Sunni and Sh'ia Islam through such unifying figures. Figures who incidentally also bridge Hinduism and Islam because the most important center of both is embodied in Sat Guru or Murshad and the equal vision obtained at levels of conciousness that trancend both Koran and Gita.
The Bush administration has had to take on the ugly task, rather like a surgeon, of cutting out the cancer in Afghanistan and Iraq in order to give Liberty, freedom and democracy a chance. Success in that area willl spread throughout the Region.
You cannot have peace simply by thinking peace and decrying war; Gyan Jog is nothing but an illusion at this advanced stage of the Kali Yuga. The cops have to go after the bad guys.
It is the nature of the universe that all peace has come about through wars for liberation, freedom and the rule of law.
What was Krishnas advice to Arjuna on war? Did he say protest for peace? No.
'Show the other cheek' to an Islamofascist and he will cut your head off.
Great post - and very informative! Do you see/feel that there will be progress toward moderation and peace? Possible?
Allthough I repeat that Indians generally have been very unhelpful and continue to be unhelpful in their attitude to War on Terror abroad.
Many younger American Muslims, though not so far British Muslims, are really moving forward in a positive way.
The main problem as I see it is the cultural shift in the last 30 years away from the Sufi perspective in Islam (which arose in Persia through a marriage between Persian and Islamic civilisation) and the move towards Radical Islamofascism due in the main to political failure in the Muslim and Persian world.
Anything that can be done to promote the writings of Maulana Rumi, Shams-i-Tabriz, Hafiz or Sheik Farid, Rabia of Basra etc, among younger Muslims would help. And this is absolutely not happening anywhere.
But currently there is no real attempt to bridge Sunni and Sh'ia Islam through such unifying figures. Figures who incidentally also bridge Hinduism and Islam because the most important center of both is embodied in Sat Guru or Murshad and the equal vision obtained at levels of conciousness that trancend both Koran and Gita.
The Bush administration has had to take on the ugly task, rather like a surgeon, of cutting out the cancer in Afghanistan and Iraq in order to give Liberty, freedom and democracy a chance. Success in that area willl spread throughout the Region.
You cannot have peace simply by thinking peace and decrying war; Gyan Jog is nothing but an illusion at this advanced stage of the Kali Yuga. The cops have to go after the bad guys.
It is the nature of the universe that all peace has come about through wars for liberation, freedom and the rule of law.
What was Krishnas advice to Arjuna on war? Did he say protest for peace? No.
'Show the other cheek' to an Islamofascist and he will cut your head off.
Great post - and very informative! Do you see/feel that there will be progress toward moderation and peace? Possible?
Please use the "contact us" button if you need to contact a ForumGarden admin.
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Suresh Gupta
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- Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:29 pm
The Rise Of Moderate Muslims....and pretenders!
Sarasara,
What do you suggest Indians should do to be considered helpful and continue to be helpful in their attitude to War on Terror abroad? Do you consider such help should be based on two-sided approach?
Krishna did every thing possible to avoid war and when it became a compulsion then he advised Arjuna to fight.
Happy Christmas to you all.
What do you suggest Indians should do to be considered helpful and continue to be helpful in their attitude to War on Terror abroad? Do you consider such help should be based on two-sided approach?
Krishna did every thing possible to avoid war and when it became a compulsion then he advised Arjuna to fight.
Happy Christmas to you all.
The Rise Of Moderate Muslims....and pretenders!
Muslims some are good some are bad, then there are some you cannot turn your back on...be careful.
Everyone has these on their face? TULIPS.
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capt_buzzard
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The Rise Of Moderate Muslims....and pretenders!
Hmmm. The Moderate Muslims in the United Kingdom were very moderate until they starting their own form of government/parliament, then all the trouble started. I wonder what President G.W Bush would say if the Moderate Muslims demanded their own Government within the US?
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Suresh Gupta
- Posts: 1172
- Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:29 pm
The Rise Of Moderate Muslims....and pretenders!
sarasara wrote: Frankly India could not be doing very much because personally I cannot remember hearing of any Indian initiaves in the war on Terror.
As to the Indian Intellegencia they could tone down their hate for the US and start asking themselves if they should continue to make a point of supporting Indias sucking up to dictators and opressors around the world.
As to what India should do, it could start by agreeing with President Bush that Liberty, democracy and freedom should be encouraged in the Arab and Persian world.
I think you have to do some more reading and need some more positive understanding to rightly understand India and Indians. USA need try to stop making exclusive claim to liberty, democracy and freedom world over. Remember the word Improvement starts with 'I'.
As to the Indian Intellegencia they could tone down their hate for the US and start asking themselves if they should continue to make a point of supporting Indias sucking up to dictators and opressors around the world.
As to what India should do, it could start by agreeing with President Bush that Liberty, democracy and freedom should be encouraged in the Arab and Persian world.
I think you have to do some more reading and need some more positive understanding to rightly understand India and Indians. USA need try to stop making exclusive claim to liberty, democracy and freedom world over. Remember the word Improvement starts with 'I'.
The Rise Of Moderate Muslims....and pretenders!
posted by sarasara
Since Sept. 11, 2001, I've written a column once a year pointing out the good news, which is that Islamic extremism is losing. The movement, in all of its variations, has been unable to garner mass support in any Muslim country. While people in many countries still despise their governments -- and that of the United States -- this has not translated into support for Osama bin Laden's ideas. It doesn't mean the end of terrorism by a long shot. Small groups of people can do great harm in today's world. But it does mean that the political engine producing this religious radicalism is not gaining steam.
In those places in the Muslim world where political life is open, the evidence is overwhelming. In the elections in Malaysia and Indonesia this year, secular parties trounced Islamic ones. Malaysia's case is particularly instructive. Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi ran on a platform of reform and good government, reckoning that voters cared more about ending corruption than enacting Islamic law. The result was a devastating defeat for the Islamist party, its worst showing in 30 years.
In 2004, however, one can point to more than simply the absence of support for fundamentalism. There are glimmers of reform, even in the Arab world, the place that remains the locus of the problem. Governments are talking about changing their economic and even political systems. Some are doing more than talking. Jordan has begun serious economic reforms. Egypt, which remains the most tragic case of lost potential in the Arab world, could be rousing from its slumber. An energetic new prime minister has appointed a team with strong reformist credentials, including businessmen in the cabinet (a first in Egypt). The reforms they have proposed are bold and far-reaching. Markets are taking note: Egyptian stocks are up 100 percent this year.
Fundamentalists get a grip in regimes where there is no political freedom, the US and the west come to that gets attacked because it has consistently backed up oppressive regimes where it was thought it would best serve their interests, as well as condemning al queda how about persuading the saudi royal family to allow political freedom-radical ideas like one man one vote and letting women have a say as well. It is inconsistent to invade one country to impose democracy yet support an ally with a repressive regime and turn a blind eye to their culpability for 911.
Since Sept. 11, 2001, I've written a column once a year pointing out the good news, which is that Islamic extremism is losing. The movement, in all of its variations, has been unable to garner mass support in any Muslim country. While people in many countries still despise their governments -- and that of the United States -- this has not translated into support for Osama bin Laden's ideas. It doesn't mean the end of terrorism by a long shot. Small groups of people can do great harm in today's world. But it does mean that the political engine producing this religious radicalism is not gaining steam.
In those places in the Muslim world where political life is open, the evidence is overwhelming. In the elections in Malaysia and Indonesia this year, secular parties trounced Islamic ones. Malaysia's case is particularly instructive. Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi ran on a platform of reform and good government, reckoning that voters cared more about ending corruption than enacting Islamic law. The result was a devastating defeat for the Islamist party, its worst showing in 30 years.
In 2004, however, one can point to more than simply the absence of support for fundamentalism. There are glimmers of reform, even in the Arab world, the place that remains the locus of the problem. Governments are talking about changing their economic and even political systems. Some are doing more than talking. Jordan has begun serious economic reforms. Egypt, which remains the most tragic case of lost potential in the Arab world, could be rousing from its slumber. An energetic new prime minister has appointed a team with strong reformist credentials, including businessmen in the cabinet (a first in Egypt). The reforms they have proposed are bold and far-reaching. Markets are taking note: Egyptian stocks are up 100 percent this year.
Fundamentalists get a grip in regimes where there is no political freedom, the US and the west come to that gets attacked because it has consistently backed up oppressive regimes where it was thought it would best serve their interests, as well as condemning al queda how about persuading the saudi royal family to allow political freedom-radical ideas like one man one vote and letting women have a say as well. It is inconsistent to invade one country to impose democracy yet support an ally with a repressive regime and turn a blind eye to their culpability for 911.