alcoholics

pantsonfire321@aol.com · Wed Nov 29, 2006 11:33 pm

A few people here have mentioned that they've lived with a drunk . Many many years ago i lived with a pi$$ head ..not something i would ever tolerate again . So whos mores likely to have a drink problem men or women. Why would you put up with it and how many drinks does it take to become an alcoholic .

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 11:37 pm

i'm not sure it's the number of drinks, but rather the effect drink has on a person....do they meet their obligations? do they abuse people? are they 'functioning' alcoholics, or in the gutter?

Peg · Post by **Peg** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:21 am

I don't think there are any set rules for alcoholism. Some alcoholics are abusive; some are not. Some can make it through work without drinking, some risk their jobs by drinking while working, some cannot leave the alcohol alone long enough to work. Alcoholism does not care if you are male or female. I think a good guideline for deciding alcoholism is this: Is the alcohol having an adverse effect on your life or the lives of your loved ones? Are you able to not drink to make things better?

Why would you put up with it? Various reasons. My first marriage, I was 18, married straight out of high school. I went without food and electric many times. I was beaten countless times. Why did I stay? I kept hoping he would change; change into the sweet, loving man he was when he was sober. It took me 3 1/2 years to realize that, no matter how much I loved that sober person, he would not and could not change. He had to WANT to change. He had to hit rock bottom before there would be any hope and he wasn't going to take me with him.

My husband now and I will be married 20 years in December. One of the things I loved about him enough to marry him was that he was (and always will be) a recovering alcoholic. As some here know, he started drinking again earlier this year. Thankfully, he got hisself under control again. I was prepared to leave him. I choose not to live with an alcoholic. It's scary as hell to have so many years invested into a relationship and starting over. The thought of living with alcoholism was, and is, even scarier to me.

Elvira · Post by **Elvira** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 7:18 am

My father was an alcoholic, and when I realised that my boyf of 4 years had the same problem, I should have ended it then. Foolishly I stayed for another 3 years!

My current boyf drinks a lot (mainly with meals) but can easily go without for a few weeks to prove a point. He also doesn't have bad characteristics when he drinks which my ex AND my father both did.

S x

zinkyusa · Post by **zinkyusa** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 7:23 am

My ex-wife had a drinking problem..

but she divorced it

OzBoy · Post by **OzBoy** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 7:33 am

Peg hit the nail on the head, there are no rules with alcoholisim. I have a family member who is very much a functioning alcoholic. She is in her mid forties has been drinking most her life, holds down two jobs, runs her household, runs canteen every weekend for her sons football club, walks miles every day as she doesn't need to drive living in a big city and never misses a beat. She never has a sickie, cooks, cleans as good as any other wife/Mother and keeps up with the best of them. When we go out some weekends we all get pretty plastered but next morning I'm gulping water from the shower head, cursing Johnny Walker and dreaming of the biggest fry up imaginable, meanwhile she's cracking open another tinny or cask, has put three loads of washing on and is ironing her husbands referee uniform - it truly amazes me she has no hangover no desire for food and she can accomplish more in that day then I do for the remainder of the weekend, and it takes me a few days before I'll touch another drink too.

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:36 am

Your family member is rare OZBOY eventually it catches up with everyone. As you age your body can't handle booze as it does when your young. Actually it can't handle it when your young either, we just think it can.

It leads to Diabetes, COPD, CHF, Vascular disease, Liver disease, and many cases if your a full fledged DRUNK complete renal faliure and DEATH. There are no physical benefits to over drinking period it requires your organs to work harder then they should.

Thats not to say a drink now and then will kill you it won't, it is excessive constant daily drinking non-stop that is the problem for you body. That doesn't even account for what it does to your family and friends as they watch you drink yourself to death or close to it.

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:42 am

OOOPS I thought this was a calling all alcoholics thread. I will lurk to see who stops in.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:45 am

alcoholics

Hello

guppy · Post by **guppy** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:58 am

for the first time in my life i dont have any around me and i love it. I feel sorry for anyone with a drinking problem, but not enough, to want them around me anymore. i have finally been cured. and it's a good feeling. :-6

WonderWendy3 · Post by **WonderWendy3** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:01 am

zinkyusa;472767 wrote: My ex-wife had a drinking problem..

but she divorced it

Her and I have something in common!!

I have alot of experience with Alchoholics...Father, brother, ex-husband, Cousins, friends...etc. I'm a firm believer of "in moderation"....and of course it's an addiction otherwise.

I have seen people function normally and still NEED that drink when it's "5 oclock somewhere"

I can relate to not being able to live with someone that refuses to quit, reason why I'm divorced...drinking was more important to him than his children and wife and he proved that time and time again...He still drinks to this day...with his newer model of a wife (20 years newer!!)--More power to him!!

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:01 am

guppy;472814 wrote: for the first time in my life i dont have any around me and i love it. I feel sorry for anyone with a drinking problem, but not enough, to want them around me anymore. i have finally been cured. and it's a good feeling. :-6

Drunks will really drag you down into the bowels of hell. Stay happy.

guppy · Post by **guppy** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:05 am

Nomad;472822 wrote: Drunks will really drag you down into the bowels of hell. Stay happy.

Thanks, nomad!!:) i finally figured out my personality is not healthy for me or them. so............anybody with a drinking problem gets a tail in their face as i swim off........

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:09 am

guppy;472832 wrote: Thanks, nomad!!:) i finally figured out my personality is not healthy for me or them. so............anybody with a drinking problem gets a tail in their face as i swim off........

Bye...send an underwater postcard now and then :-6

Post by **spot** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 10:54 am

lady cop;472544 wrote: i'm not sure it's the number of drinks, but rather the effect drink has on a person....do they meet their obligations? do they abuse people? are they 'functioning' alcoholics, or in the gutter?You're merging two issues here, it would be as well to distinguish between each concept. What you've described is alcohol abuse:Alcohol abuse is a pattern of drinking that results in harm to one’s health, interpersonal relationships or ability to work. Certain manifestations of alcohol abuse include failure to fulfill responsibilities at work, school or home; drinking in dangerous situations such as while driving; legal problems associated with alcohol use and continued drinking despite problems that are caused or worsened by drinking. Alcohol abuse can lead to alcohol dependenceThe problem for alcoholics is, in contrast, one of alcoholism:Alcoholism or alcohol dependence is a diagnosable disease characterized by several factors including a strong craving for alcohol, continued use despite harm or personal injury, the inability to limit drinking, physical illness when drinking stops, and the need to increase the amount drunk in order to feel the effects.

http://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/faqs.htm#12

guppy · Post by **guppy** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 10:56 am

spot;472985 wrote: You're merging two issues here, it would be as well to distinguish between each concept. What you've described is alcohol abuse:Alcohol abuse is a pattern of drinking that results in harm to one’s health, interpersonal relationships or ability to work. Certain manifestations of alcohol abuse include failure to fulfill responsibilities at work, school or home; drinking in dangerous situations such as while driving; legal problems associated with alcohol use and continued drinking despite problems that are caused or worsened by drinking. Alcohol abuse can lead to alcohol dependenceThe problem for alcoholics is, in contrast, one of alcoholism:Alcoholism or alcohol dependence is a diagnosable disease characterized by several factors including a strong craving for alcohol, continued use despite harm or personal injury, the inability to limit drinking, physical illness when drinking stops, and the need to increase the amount drunk in order to feel the effects.

http://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/faqs.htm#12 spot, almost eveyone who posted on this thread knows all that. we learned it first hand by either being one or association to one.......

WonderWendy3 · Post by **WonderWendy3** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:40 am

Hi, My name is Wendy and I've lived with alchoholics....

guppy · Post by **guppy** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:44 am

WonderWendy3;473001 wrote: Hi, My name is Wendy and I've lived with alchoholics....

nice to meet ya wendy. we swam the same circles i do believe......

WonderWendy3 · Post by **WonderWendy3** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:55 am

guppy;473002 wrote: nice to meet ya wendy. we swam the same circles i do believe......

Yup, Stevie wonder sang about us, dontcha know??

pantsonfire321@aol.com · Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:15 pm

I would like to say a ..WELL DONE ..to every person who has survived living with a drunk :-6 WE live and learn

guppy · Post by **guppy** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:20 pm

i am proud for anybody who has the guts and determination to quit drinking as well. takes alot of perserverance and determination to change everything in your life. to learn a new way of life. i have alot of respect for both sides. the codependents who get healthy enough to let go of our enabling ways and the alchoholics who overcome......it aint easy either way......:-4

WonderWendy3 · Post by **WonderWendy3** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:24 pm

guppy;473024 wrote: i am proud for anybody who has the guts and determination to quit drinking as well. takes alot of perserverance and determination to change everything in your life. to learn a new way of life. i have alot of respect for both sides. the codependents who get healthy enough to let go of our enabling ways and the alchoholics who overcome......it aint easy either way......:-4

Very well said...

I respect people highly that recover from it, have family members that struggle with it on a daily basis...But they know how destructive it was and keep away from it and for that I highly respect them.

abbey · Post by **abbey** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 1:11 pm

guppy;473024 wrote: i am proud for anybody who has the guts and determination to quit drinking as well. takes alot of perserverance and determination to change everything in your life. to learn a new way of life. i have alot of respect for both sides. the codependents who get healthy enough to let go of our enabling ways and the alchoholics who overcome......it aint easy either way......:-4Well said Gupps, we have a lovely lady here at FG that's been to hell with drink.

Thankfully she had a good man that stood by her. :-4

cherandbuster · Post by **cherandbuster** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 1:24 pm

When I was in my 20s I dated and lived with a man named Steve.

One morning, I went downstairs to the kitchen after I woke up. The entire counter area was *covered* with beer cans

I knew at that moment

that I could not wake up to that for the rest of my life

It was a good decision :-6

guppy · Post by **guppy** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 1:30 pm

for me, the epiphany came when i spent over a month on my own in texas. i slowly realised , heck, this is how the world could be, can't go back and do the other anymore. i never knew how surrounded i was by it untill then. up unitll then i always thought "what is wrong with me" now i see it another way. The main thing wrong was i was outnumbered and very rarely went around anywhere where alchoholism wasn't the main theme. it was hard to comprehend it untill i stepped out of it all the way and had time to really think about it.

cherandbuster · Post by **cherandbuster** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 1:32 pm

guppy;473071 wrote: for me, the epiphany came when i spent over a month on my own in texas. i slowly realised , heck, this is how the world could be, can't go back and do the other anymore. i never knew how surrounded i was by it untill then. up unitl then i always thought "what is wrong with me" now i see it another way. The main thing wrong was i was outnumbered and very rarely went around anywhere where alchoholism wasn't the main theme. it was hard to comprehend it untill i stepped out of it all the way and had time to really think about it.

Excellent post Gupster :-6

Peg · Post by **Peg** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 4:25 pm

spot;472985 wrote: You're merging two issues here, it would be as well to distinguish between each concept. What you've described is alcohol abuse:Alcohol abuse is a pattern of drinking that results in harm to one’s health, interpersonal relationships or ability to work. Certain manifestations of alcohol abuse include failure to fulfill responsibilities at work, school or home; drinking in dangerous situations such as while driving; legal problems associated with alcohol use and continued drinking despite problems that are caused or worsened by drinking. Alcohol abuse can lead to alcohol dependenceThe problem for alcoholics is, in contrast, one of alcoholism:Alcoholism or alcohol dependence is a diagnosable disease characterized by several factors including a strong craving for alcohol, continued use despite harm or personal injury, the inability to limit drinking, physical illness when drinking stops, and the need to increase the amount drunk in order to feel the effects.

http://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/faqs.htm#12

Oh give me a freaken break! No matter what you, or the government call it, alcoholism is alcoholism. The person who abuses alcohol day in and day out and it's causing problems in their life and they still continue drinking is an alcoholic, not an alcohol abuser. Alcoholics blame their morning shakes on everything but the lack of or need for alcohol. Every alcoholic I've met has said they could quit "if they wanted to". I see no difference between the two at all.

Post by **spot** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 5:06 pm

Peg;473226 wrote: Oh give me a freaken break! No matter what you, or the government call it, alcoholism is alcoholism. The person who abuses alcohol day in and day out and it's causing problems in their life and they still continue drinking is an alcoholic, not an alcohol abuser. Alcoholics blame their morning shakes on everything but the lack of or need for alcohol. Every alcoholic I've met has said they could quit "if they wanted to". I see no difference between the two at all.Then perhaps you lack discrimination, Peg. An alcoholic has a disease, an alcohol abuser is incapable for one reason or another. You can take a person who has never had a drink in his life, goes on a binge and becomes incapable, and never has another drink again. He's abused alcohol, he's never been an alcoholic. That's why there's a distinction in terminology. There may be a high proportion of alcohol abusers who are also alcoholics, but not all of them.

Saffron · Post by **Saffron** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 5:13 pm

I don't think that there is any "set in stone" kind of picture of THE alcoholic. But I am aware of what is called a "functioning" alcoholic or drug addict.

My father used to drink a lot. For a long time. And alcohlism runs in the both sides of my family, as we are Irish. But my dad does not drink any more, and I am so glad. But my younger sister had taken over the alcoholic role now. She is an attorney, gone through 2 husbands already. She is 2 years younger than me. And she is so in denial.

Peg · Post by **Peg** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 5:57 pm

spot;472985 wrote: You're merging two issues here, it would be as well to distinguish between each concept. What you've described is alcohol abuse:Alcohol abuse is a pattern of drinking that results in harm to one’s health, interpersonal relationships or ability to work. Certain manifestations of alcohol abuse include failure to fulfill responsibilities at work, school or home; drinking in dangerous situations such as while driving; legal problems associated with alcohol use and continued drinking despite problems that are caused or worsened by drinking. Alcohol abuse can lead to alcohol dependenceThe problem for alcoholics is, in contrast, one of alcoholism:

If they fail to fulfill responsibilities at work, school, or home, if alcohol has caused legal problems more than once, and continue to drink despite the problems caused or worsened by drinking, they ARE an alcoholic in my opinion. Have you ever lived with an alcoholic Spot? Have you ever been to an AA meeting? Have you ever had a friend die because of their "alcohol abuse"?

Alcohol abuse to me, is binge drinking every now and then; setting out to get drunk.

Post by **spot** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:02 pm

Peg;473349 wrote: If they fail to fulfill responsibilities at work, school, or home, if alcohol has caused legal problems more than once, and continue to drink despite the problems caused or worsened by drinking, they ARE an alcoholic in my opinion. Have you ever lived with an alcoholic Spot? Have you ever been to an AA meeting? Have you ever had a friend die because of their "alcohol abuse"?

Alcohol abuse to me, is binge drinking every now and then; setting out to get drunk.I'm grateful to the CDC for setting the terms out so plainly, then. I'd hate to have made a mistake over the definitions. As for the questions, I find them rather invasive.

Peg · Post by **Peg** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 10:12 pm

In other words, you are avoiding answering them? Do you believe EVERYTHING you read?

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 10:15 pm

spot;472985 wrote: You're merging two issues here, it would be as well to distinguish between each concept. What you've described is alcohol abuse:Alcohol abuse is a pattern of drinking that results in harm to one’s health, interpersonal relationships or ability to work. Certain manifestations of alcohol abuse include failure to fulfill responsibilities at work, school or home; drinking in dangerous situations such as while driving; legal problems associated with alcohol use and continued drinking despite problems that are caused or worsened by drinking. Alcohol abuse can lead to alcohol dependenceThe problem for alcoholics is, in contrast, one of alcoholism:Alcoholism or alcohol dependence is a diagnosable disease characterized by several factors including a strong craving for alcohol, continued use despite harm or personal injury, the inability to limit drinking, physical illness when drinking stops, and the need to increase the amount drunk in order to feel the effects.

http://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/faqs.htm#12

Merging these two issues is appropriate. The issues arent seperate ones, they go hand in hand. One cant be a full blown alcoholic without having repercussions as you describe to deal with.

Peg · Post by **Peg** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 10:34 pm

But what do you perceive as the difference between alcohol abuse and alcoholism?

OzBoy · Post by **OzBoy** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:52 am

CARLA;472794 wrote: Your family member is rare OZBOY eventually it catches up with everyone. As you age your body can't handle booze as it does when your young. Actually it can't handle it when your young either, we just think it can.

It leads to Diabetes, COPD, CHF, Vascular disease, Liver disease, and many cases if your a full fledged DRUNK complete renal faliure and DEATH. There are no physical benefits to over drinking period it requires your organs to work harder then they should.

Thats not to say a drink now and then will kill you it won't, it is excessive constant daily drinking non-stop that is the problem for you body. That doesn't even account for what it does to your family and friends as they watch you drink yourself to death or close to it.

You're absotluley right Carla, she has blacked out twice, fitted numerous times and still will not admit to a drinking problem. It is definatley catching up with her health if nothing else, no one knows what else to do to help her? When someone in that position functions so well its even harder to justify to her the need to seek help and stop drinking, we can see whats happening and bear witness to the slow self destruction of her life but she throws our justifications back in our faces because she knows people around her whose lives are technically worse off through their own poor lifestyle choices so she believes her drinking isn't impacting her life in a negative way at all so we often feel like we dont have a leg to stand on :-5 We are waiting and praying she will choose it for herself otherwise what else can you do?:-1

Post by **spot** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:47 am

Peg;473505 wrote: In other words, you are avoiding answering them? Do you believe EVERYTHING you read?What I avoided answering were the three questions posed as: Have you ever lived with an alcoholic Spot? Have you ever been to an AA meeting? Have you ever had a friend die because of their "alcohol abuse"?

Each of those matters is personal. Yes, I avoided them. I'm still avoiding them. I expect I'll continue to avoid them.

No, I don't believe everything I read. I do have a healthy and not unreasonable respect for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. They distinguish those two health issues in relation to alcohol consumption for a reason. I passed the definitions into the thread. It helps the clarity of the thread if we all know what the words "alcohol abuse" and "alcoholism" actually mean. Having a common vocabulary eases communication. God went down to Babel to confound the tongues of man "that they may not understand one another's speech" but I see no reason to perpetuate the confusion indefinitely.