Drink driving at christmas

pantsonfire321@aol.com · Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:05 am

Ok Lcs Diana thread made me think about this . Whats your take on drink driving and what do you think about the limits set by your country. I saw a program recently that said three million people would get behind the wheel while over the limit in the Uk this christmas . Thats a staggering number . I think it should be zero tolerance and there should no drinking and driving period . But here in the UK we have a limit . I believe this just encouraged people to drink and drive - where as if it were a complete blanket ban on drinking people would be less likely to take a chance on getting behind the wheel . :driving: does anyone have an opinion on this .

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 5:02 am

pantsonfire321@aol.com;481396 wrote: COLOR="Navy"]SIZE="3"]B]driving: does anyone have an opinion on this .

The UK limit is appropriate, it is the law, and if exceeded the penalty is applied.

To say that because people exceed the limit then the limit should be reduced

(especially to 0) is illogical.

pantsonfire321@aol.com · Sun Dec 10, 2006 5:05 am

Bill Sikes;481428 wrote: The UK limit is appropriate, it is the law, and if exceeded the penalty is applied.

To say that because people exceed the limit then the limit should be reduced

(especially to 0) is illogical.

Bill i just think that people are lightly to take more chances because their not sure if they are over or under so by having a total ban it makes it easier - people wouldn't take the chance ...or would they .

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:05 am

Although the details of the 'limit' are available for all to see/find out, I doubt many people take notice and even if they do know the legal limit, I bet there are a huge amount of people who say "one more wont hurt".

I'm with Pants....zero tolerance...

Drink driving

It may seem like a good idea at the time, but do you really want to be resposible for the death or injury of yourself or others? Think, don't drink and drive.

Drink driving

Alcohol seriously impairs a driver's judgement, coordination and reactions. It can make you a hazard to yourself, your passengers, other road users and pedestrians, which is why drink driving is such a serious offence.

The limits

Alcohol in the body can be measured in the breath, blood or urine. A driver will be found guilty of drink-driving if he or she has more than:

35 microgrammes of alcohol in 100 millilitres of breath; 80 milligrammes of alcohol in 100 millilitres of blood;

107 milligrammes of alcohol in 100 millilitres of urine.If the lower of the two breath readings the driver has given is under 39 microgrammes or below, they should be released either without charge or with a caution.

If the reading is between 40 and 50 microgrammes then they must be offered the option of providing an alternative specimin of either blood or urine.

If the lowest sample given is over 51 microgrammes per 100 milliliters of breath, the driver will be charged and sent to court. There will be a heavy fine and they will lose their driving license for at least 12 months.

Different drinks contain different alcohol content by volume. Its affect also depends on factors such as body size, gender, metabolism and how used you are to alcohol, all of which can make drinking guidelines confusing.

In short, one pint might have a stronger affect on you than the big geezer propping up the bar. So if you're unsure how much you've had, don't drive. Ideally, if you've enjoyed a drink, don't get behind the wheel at all. As for sobering up, give yourself at least an hour for every half pint you've had - but even then the smart move is to stay out of the driving seat.

go here to se the rest....http://www.thesite.org/homelawandmoney/ ... inkdriving

Marie5656 · Post by **Marie5656** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:09 am

Rick is the driker in the family when we go out. Making me the designated driver. Not a problem for me...as he willingly gives up driving. I think the laws here are OK. Just wish there were not so many stupid people out there who think they are OK to drive.

I remember many years ago I was watching one of those morning talk shows, and they were interviewing people who's lives were influenced by drunk drivers...either they were seriously hurt or lost a familiy menber in an accident, or they were the drunk drivers.

One guys comment really struck me. He told me that he used to drink even if he was the designated driver...his reasoning was this...if I was the DD..I would just "limit" myself to a pitcher of beer or so. :-5

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:31 am

sadly , drunk drivers have kept me in business.

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:33 am

i remember one guy...ran over and killed a beautiful promising 12-year-old boy. every time i saw him in court i wanted to kick his arse. and all he ever whined about was what his privileges should be in the jail.

Marie5656 · Post by **Marie5656** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:33 am

lady cop;481503 wrote: sadly , drunk drivers have kept me in business.

And that is too bad.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:01 am

I personally do not drive at all when I feel that I am too drunk to drive...

Granted I can drink alot, and still be relatively coherent and co-ordinated in all that I do, but once I question my own ability to drive I do not hesitate in giving up the car keys.

I know when that line is drawn, and I will never cross it...I have always been safe when it comes to drinking and driving...In fact, I had slept in my car when I knew that I was not ok to drive...the next morning when I slept it off and had driven home, I was pulled over and given a DUI...apparently the law cares not for thelevel of integrity,..if you break the law, you will pay, no exceptions.

I think the people who have an extended amount of driving ahead of them before they get to where-ever it is they are going, while drinking, may be the worst case scenario. Sometimes alcohol has a way of catching up to people rather suddenly, and by the time they realize it, they tend to lose consciousness,..but I really don't know, I don't drive when I feel that such may be inevitably possible.

I lost a friend from a car accident(that my brother was in) where drinking was definitely a factor, and their destination happened to be several hours away. His head clipped the side of a light pole on the side of the highway,..my brother and his friends tried to do everything they could, but his parents had to later let him go, as his injuries would have left him unconscious while hooked up to a machine for the rest of his life.

I was also involved in a really bad car accident, while drinking was not involved, I too was involved in other accidents...again it was more carelessness than drinking, but I couldn't really say if such instances can be credited with my sensibility on the road.

To me, it all comes down to integrity...I think too many people don't ask themselves if they would mind it if someone other than themselves were behind the wheel of a vehicle knowing what their condition was, while pondering the consequences if their judgement had proved to be miscalculated...

I personally couldn't live with myself if I were to critically harm anyone due in large part to my sheer judgement as opposed to ability to drive a vehicle...therefore I do not.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 9:11 am

Okay its time I sad something. I have a personal interest in this, I wrote off a car when I was drunk, which is one of the reasons I do not drink very much anymore, I am still ashamed of it and its not easy to admit it either, but I did it, so the least I can do is tell the truth. I pleaded guilty, I was banned for a year and, I was €13,000 worse off because of my idiocy, I got of light I think. I don't regret many things in my life, but that I do, not because I got caught or crashed, but because I could have killed someone (luckily no one else was involved) and I would not have been able to forgive myself if I had, ever. My attitude is that there should be no legal limit that allows you to have any drink and drive a car, it just clouds the issue, you should not attempt to drive a car if you have got alcohol in you because no matter what you think, if something goes wrong you will not be able to control the situation, and you won't realize something is going wrong until you are lying against an airbag hopeully still alive. I had 4 pints and I thought like many people that I would be alright, and I didn't want to queue for a taxi in the rain, I took a chance. I was wrong and I have never had one shred of sympathy for myself, I was an idiot.

People who are caught drinking and driving should be banned for at least a year period, (I actually think my sentence was pretty lenient and two years at least would be more appropriate as a minimum sentence for a first offence but I am not a judge). Also if you kill someone when you are drink driving its manslaughter and there is no defence for it. I guess maybe some of you will be shocked by that little story, coming from nice, reasonable galbally, but I wasn't as wise to such things as I am now, I learned the hard way. Thats the basic reality of drinking and driving, and I know other stories that are far worse. About 500 people a year are killed every year on the roads in The Republic of Ireland (in a country of 5 million people thats a very high death rate, twice that of the U.K. and its because of drinking). Its estimated that about 60 percent of these deaths are directly alcohol related. The rate in the North of Ireland is the same. During the troubles in Northern Ireland 3,000 people were murdered by one side or another in what was considered a de facto Civil War, in the same period about 15,000 people died on the roads in the Republic, thats the scale of the problem.

Its my experience that almost everyone I know how both like to take a drink, and at the same time drives a car has at some stage taken a chance on driving home, my advice is please (under any circumstances) don't do it, if you kill yourself thats sad, if you kill someones child that is unforgiveable. I am writing this post in the hope that someone will listen to it and heed my advice, please do not drink and drive a car, do not take a chance ever, its stupidity of the highest order.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 9:23 am

Well, in the U.S the legal limit is significantly low...

The reason I believe that the legal limit does not begin at zero is due to certain medicines that contain little amounts of alcohol....Some may make people drowsy, but in alot of cases most of them don't faze me one bit. I would hate to be given a DUI because I took some NyQuil or had washed my mouth out with Scope.

DesignerGal · Post by **DesignerGal** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 9:25 am

I like that you guys call it drink driving and we call it drunk driving.

I went to a party last night and had 2 glasses of wine. It was also over a 3 1/2 hour period. I added one glass of water for each drink when I go out regardless if I am driving or not. I am pretty sure I was ok last night.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 9:56 am

Here are the laws in my Country regarding what we eupemistically call "drink driving".

Under the Road Traffic Act, 1994, the permitted blood alcohol concentration (BAC) is 80 mg of alcohol per 100 ml of blood.

In urine, the equivalent level is 107 mg, and in breath it is 35 mg.

In addition to motorised vehicles, the drink-driving limits also apply to push bikes and animal-drawn vehicles.

There is no general guideline as to how much alcohol can be consumed before reaching the legal limit. This is due to the wide range of factors determining BAC (eg, speed of drinking, health, state of mind, whether have eaten, etc).

There is no such thing as a 'safe' drink-driving limit. Even at the legal limit of 80 mg, a driver is six times more likely to have an accident.

80mg per hundred mg of blood equates roughly to one and half pints of beer for the average man, and one pint for the average woman, but thats the problem, everyone usually sets their own limits, which is usually about 1 over the legal requirement. Of course people are not in general "average" at all, so its impossible to tell at which point you are over the limit, except when its obvious that you have drunk more than 3 or 4 pints of beer or several glasses of wine. Why leave it all open to confusion? Whats the point? Its simpler to say the legal limit is say 8mg, that covers Synders case about medicines, and no drink is provided in quantites that would give you only that level. If your medicine is of a type that makes you drousy you shouldn't drive under any circumstances either, which is why they will not let you drive home after you have undergone a general anaesthtic less than 48 hours ago. Likewise if you drank so much and stayed up so late that you still have alcohol in your system the next morning then you shouldn'd drive either, if you know you are going to have to drive early the next morning you shouldn't get poleaxed till 5am the night before. Thats my opinion, it may sound harsh, but its much better to be late for work, or be a little inconvienced that to kill yourself or others in a crash.

Post by **Betty Boop** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 9:59 am

I personally never drive if I've had a drink.

cherandbuster · Post by **cherandbuster** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 12:42 pm

Galbally;481616 wrote: Okay its time I said something. I have a personal interest in this, I wrote off a car when I was drunk, which is one of the reasons I do not drink very much anymore, I am still ashamed of it and its not easy to admit it either, but I did it, so the least I can do is tell the truth.

I guess maybe some of you will be shocked by that little story, coming from nice, reasonable galbally, but I wasn't as wise to such things as I am now, I learned the hard way.

Dr. G

I think it was very brave of you to share this with us

And I still think you're wonderful :-6

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 12:58 pm

cherandbuster;481779 wrote: Dr. G

I think it was very brave of you to share this with us

And I still think you're wonderful :-6

Thank you Cher, its never easy admitting your idiotic mistakes in life, but I did it to underline that its very easy to do, but once you do it, you realize how stupid it is, luckily I got a chance to redeem myself, many don't.

cherandbuster · Post by **cherandbuster** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 1:03 pm

Galbally;481791 wrote: Thank you Cher, its never easy admitting your idiotic mistakes in life, but I did it to underline that its very easy to do, but once you do it, you realize how stupid it is, luckily I got a chance to redeem myself, many don't.

Sounds like it was a lesson well-learned, my friend :-6

Marie5656 · Post by **Marie5656** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 1:30 pm

About 10 years ago, a friend's nephew was struck and killed by a drunk driver. He was riding his bike home from a friend's house. He was 16 years old.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 1:46 pm

I learned to drive at a time when it was acceptable to drive to the pub for a drink. I almost got killed one night as a teenager when the bloke who was driving decided to try and kill a rabbit crossing the road in front of him following it off the road to do so. As he said afterwards "that wasn't a smart thing to do was it" at the time it was hilaruiously funny but then I ws drunk as well. I've always had a low tolerance for alcohol-three pints and I'm almost paralytic. Like most i would be lying if i said I hadn't done it. Now i just don't drink at all if I'm driving. Even now some people can't seem to understand you can have a good time without being completely drunk and take offence if i don't drink.

I have no sympathy for anyone done for drink driving. They were sober when they decided t have the first one. I had two coleagues who both lost their lecence through drink driving. Like me they depend on being able to drive for their livelihood. One of them undertook a marked police car in the middle of edinburgh. He then got done again while still awaiting trial for the first offence. Stupidity is not an adequate description.

It's not the penalty that stops people so much as the certainty that they will be caught and lose their licence that does it.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 12:09 am

Galbally;481637 wrote: Why leave it all open to confusion? Whats the point? Its simpler to say the legal limit is say 8mg, that covers Synders case about medicines, and no drink is provided in quantites that would give you only that level.

I agree...

From my own experience here in the U.S., the legal limit is very minimal...

Here in Ohio the legal limit is .08...Anyone who drinks a half of a beer(Obviously in comparison to drinking any other beverage -- not sipping for hours) would be around a .08 level of intoxication...It's very low...I don't really think .08 is much different than if the law were to be changed to, say, .02, which I think would show up consistently in people who use alcoholic medicines...

I would just like to clarify, that when I said Nyquil doesn't faze me, I have to admit it does make me a little drowsy...I was just commenting on examples...I would like to change that statement to Dayquil,..as Dayquil does not induce sleepiness.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:30 am

I agree with Pants' take on this. No tolerance. It's not like driving drunk is new and we don't know it can kill. If you drive drunk you might as well be out looking to murder someone. I hate drunk drivers with a passion. Here in America we let people off when they have four and five convictions or more. It's insane!

Imladris · Post by **Imladris** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:30 am

I admire Galbally for sharing his story and just so he knows he's not alone here's my example of how easy it is to drink drive -

About 19 years ago I had just joined the Special Constabulary, at that time we had a lot of young officers who lived in quarters at the station and often had parties. One night I finished my duty at 2am and my friend and I went to join the party, we had about one third of a plastic cup of punch and that is the only alcohol either of us had. We both left at about 4am ish and both had to drive home. I stepped outside into the fresh air and the alcohol hit me, I only had to go about 2 miles to get home so I took a chance, I was lucky - there were no other cars on the road and I got home safely. I spoke to my friend the next day and she said that she got one of the patrols to follow her home as she felt a bit weird. We came to the conclusion that the punch had been added to as the night went on and when we got to it it was neat booze.

I have never risked it since and never will. I was ashamed that I drove but at the same time grateful that nothing happened.

I have seen the consequences of drink driving and they are not pretty.

I have worked with someone who used to drink heavily then come into work the next day reeking of it and expecting to be allowed to drive, he was obviously still over the limit and was taken off driving.

WonderWendy3 · Post by **WonderWendy3** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 4:57 am

I have no tolerance for Drunk driving either, thankfully I don't have any close friends are relatives that have been hurt by them...Only in High school had classmates killed by drunk drivers and that was enough for me to be responsible. I am the DD if I go out, have no problem with staying sober, actually have a good time. I agree with what was said earlier that some people take offence to it, but I don't care..I also get teased cause drinking soda instead of alchohol...again, don't care. I get friends/family home safe and sound and know that I don't put anyone at risk after leaving a bar.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:07 am

I was recently in the company of a *minister* (probably magazine ordained) who stood up and said "I've had 13 beers and 2 daiquiris and I'm fine! I've been drinkin' and drivin' for 30 (bleeping) years and I've never killed anyone yet!" How my hackles went up!

Galbally, your post was really well put and honorable. It wasnt lost on me.

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:26 am

pantsonfire321@aol.com;481435 wrote: COLOR="Navy"]SIZE="3"]B] Bill i just think that people are lightly to take more chances because their not sure if they are over or under so by having a total ban it makes it easier - people wouldn't take the chance ...or would they .

If they are unsure, then of course they should not drive. The limit is well known,

and has been since.. erm... 1967? 40 years, approximately.

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:28 am

Bez;481485 wrote: COLOR=blue]Although the details of the 'limit' are available for all to see/find out, I doubt many people take notice and even if they do know the legal limit, I bet there are a huge amount of people who say "one more wont hurt".

COLOR=blue]

COLOR=blue]I'm with Pants....zero tolerance...

People who ignore the law deserve their punishment. If there are people who

say "one more won't hurt", then they are, for several reasons, extremely stupid.

"Zero tolerance" brings a whole host of problems. Can you think of any?

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:29 am

Marie5656;481488 wrote: Rick is the driker in the family when we go out. Making me the designated driver. Not a problem for me...as he willingly gives up driving. I think the laws here are OK.

(snip)

One guys comment really struck me. He told me that he used to drink even if he was the designated driver...his reasoning was this...if I was the DD..I would just "limit" myself to a pitcher of beer or so. :-5

What is the law where you are?

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:30 am

K.Snyder;481581 wrote: I personally do not drive at all when I feel that I am too drunk to drive...

Is there no hard limit where you are, just whatever an individual thinks?

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:33 am

Galbally;481616 wrote: My attitude is that there should be no legal limit that allows you to have any drink and drive a car

Can you think of problems with this?

Galbally;481616 wrote: People who are caught drinking and driving should be banned for at least a year period,

Actually, they are!

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:34 am

DesignerGal;481623 wrote:

I went to a party last night and had 2 glasses of wine. It was also over a 3 1/2 hour period. I added one glass of water for each drink when I go out regardless if I am driving or not. I am pretty sure I was ok last night.

I am pretty sure that you were OK, too, ulless a) you are a lifelong teetotal

midget, of b) the glasses were very large.

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:37 am

RedGlitter;482313 wrote: I was recently in the company of a *minister* (probably magazine ordained) who stood up and said "I've had 13 beers and 2 daiquiris and I'm fine! I've been drinkin' and drivin' for 30 (bleeping) years and I've never killed anyone yet!" How my hackles went up! mad:

Sounds like good reason to tell the police (if he really was driving).

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:03 am

Bill Sikes;482331 wrote: Is there no hard limit where you are, just whatever an individual thinks?

When I feel like I am not ok to drive, or even the slightest questioning I don't drive when I have been drinking...

Do I give up my car keys and refuse to drive after I have had a few beers?...No.

I find that rather neurotic...But I wouldn't necessarily judge others' tolerance level in equality with that of mine at all...

The legal limit in Ohio is .08...as I have said before....08 is about the equivalent of accidentally swallowing a gulp of Listerine when you are rinsing your mouth out with mouth wash.

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:07 am

K.Snyder;482348 wrote: The legal limit in Ohio is .08...as I have said before....08 is about the equivalent of accidentally swallowing a gulp of Listerine when you are rinsing your mouth out with mouth wash.

I read your reply (0.08 somethings of alcohol per something of something), which

sounds low (you mentioned 1/2 a pint of beer). I'm not sure what the alcohol

content of Listerine is, or what the standard gulp size is, so I wouldn't drive

after drinking any Listerine!

Edit: If Listerine were, for the sake of argument, 100% alcohol, in the UK it would

be legal to drive after having 1 1/2 pub. measures of the stuff, if my hasty calculation

id correct.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:14 am

Bill Sikes;482350 wrote:

Edit: If Listerine were, for the sake of argument, 100% alcohol, in the UK it would

be legal to drive after having 1 1/2 pub. measures of the stuff, if my hasty calculation

id correct.

I get the good stuff.

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:16 am

K.Snyder;482355 wrote: I get the good stuff.

I wonder whether Listerine (which I haven't tried drinking) is any better than

after-shave (which I have). I should hope so!

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:21 am

Bill Sikes;482357 wrote: I wonder whether Listerine (which I haven't tried drinking) is any better than

after-shave (which I have). I should hope so!

Ah, man.

I have accidentally swallowed some Listerine,..and judging by the smell of after shave, I would have to say, I would rather drink Tequila.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:06 am

Thought some of you might find this of interest pertaining to the discussion.

DUI laws (Note these are from 2004, and since then I believe Minnesota has dropped its legal limit law from .10 to .08, but other than that most states legal limit law is .08...with the exception of Delaware and Colorado I believe)

Blood alcohol content calculator

(Also note, that most states can issue a DUI in certain cases where the Blood Alcohol Content of the person operating the vehicle is lower than the legal limit...the exceptions include a person whom is underage, as well as the cops judgement dreaming the person being wreck less and incoherent, given the results of a sobriety test of course)

jpcme · Post by **jpcme** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:13 am

I think the current limits are just fine. A zero tollerance will not stop anyone who is drunk from getting behind the wheel. I personally would not want to spend this christmas checking every Mince pie, christmas pudding, tifle, cake, sauce, pie etc to ensure that no alcohol was used. Currently you can be pretty sure that anyone over the limit was well aware that they had consumed alcohol and then chose to drive whether the belived they were over the limit or not.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:22 am

jpcme;482437 wrote: I think the current limits are just fine. A zero tollerance will not stop anyone who is drunk from getting behind the wheel. I personally would not want to spend this christmas checking every Mince pie, christmas pudding, tifle, cake, sauce, pie etc to ensure that no alcohol was used. Currently you can be pretty sure that anyone over the limit was well aware that they had consumed alcohol and then chose to drive whether the belived they were over the limit or not.

Yes, but I believe many are upset as far as the leniency is concerned when people are in fact caught drinking and driving, whatever the legal limit may be.

My argument is, is that integrity can go a long way, regardless of the law man has imposed, especially when judgement is the primary area of concern, as opposed to ones actual ability to drive a vehicle to begin with, intoxicated or not intoxicated.

"A zero tollerance will not stop anyone who is drunk from getting behind the wheel".

I would ultimately have to disagree with this. While such may be the case for first time offenders, I believe the desire to drive while intoxicated after harsh punishments would decrease the amount of drunk drivers on the road altogether.(My opinion)

jpcme · Post by **jpcme** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:29 am

K.Snyder;482450 wrote: Yes, but I believe many are upset as far as the leniency is concerned when people are in fact caught drinking and driving, whatever the legal limit may be.

I totally agree with zero tolerance for those who get caught driving while over the limit but I read the previous post as zero tolerance meaning no alcohol at all as being the limit which is what I do not agree with.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:41 am

jpcme;482457 wrote: I totally agree with zero tolerance for those who get caught driving while over the limit but I read the previous post as zero tolerance meaning no alcohol at all as being the limit which is what I do not agree with.

Oh, ok...I took the way you said "zero tolorence" as being a level of punishment as opposed to just the law itself.

Well, in that case, the argument pertaining to that is, simply, the law doesn't make sense, seeing as how alcohol co-related to driving will never have a good outcome, therefore why tolerate it.

I myself believe that this has not been done, as it's rather obvious that upon the least hint of smell associated with alcohol cops feel obligated to test the driver as a means to ensure the safety of every other motorist on the road, and more than not, those very same tests come back showing that the driver has more than likely only consumed a beer or two and can be trusted to act in a responsible manner. In other words, half of the life of a street cop is paper work,..it's far more efficient to worry about real crime. I realize that such a case involves a great deal of instinct, but for the most part, it's reasonable to not assume that every driver with a .07 BAC level is incapable of driving safely.

Marie5656 · Post by **Marie5656** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:26 am

Bill Sikes;482329 wrote: What is the law where you are?

This website gives the DWI info for every state in the union.

http://www.ohsinc.com/drunk_driving_law ... _CHART.htm

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:33 am

Marie5656;482520 wrote: This website gives the DWI info for every state in the union.

http://www.ohsinc.com/drunk_driving_law ... _CHART.htm

:wah:

Nice link.

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:57 am

Marie5656;482520 wrote: B]This website gives the DWI info for every state in the union.

http://www.ohsinc.com/drunk_driving_law ... _CHART.htm

Interesting. In Georgia:

State BAC Defined Administrative Restore Do penalties Open

as illegal license driving include container

per se suspension 1st privileges interlock/ laws

offense during forfeiture

suspension

Georgia 0.08 1 year yes yes/yes driver/passenger

Questions and observations:

This state seems to have the harshest penalties.

What is "Admin. lic. susp. 1st. off."? You effectively lose your licence to drive

for the duration? If so, are penalties for driving when licence suspended harsh?

Restore driv. privs. - can you get your licence back in your period of suspension?

What is "interlock/forfeiture"?

What are "Container laws"? No references to basic physics, please!

Flippin' proportional fonts. Sorry.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:31 am

Bill Sikes;482541 wrote:

What is "interlock/forfeiture"?

It's a law that involves a device connected to the ignition aspect of the offenders vehicle that dictates whether or not the car will start depending on if the device detects any amount of alcohol, much like a breathalyzer.

If any alcohol shows up, the car won't start, and such is enforced by law, given certain circumstance associated with those being convicted of DUI.

Marie5656 · Post by **Marie5656** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:42 am

Bill Sikes;482541 wrote: What is "interlock/forfeiture"?

What are "Container laws"? No references to basic physics, please!

.

I think that refers to open containers, meaning if you are driving along sucking down a beer and you get stopped, NOT a good thing. As long as the alcohol is in its original, unopened container, you are fine.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 12:13 pm

The drunk driver that I am currently battling is using every weapon at his extensive arsenal. The phuckers attorney is dragging the battle out by doing such repulsive things as bringing the breathalyzer machine that was used to test him into question. Since he's a minor, the lawyer is saying that the calibration of the machine can't accurately measure the amount of alcohol in his system. It's a desperate effort, and won't work, but it does create a much longer court case than would be normal. I am utterly revolted at the extensive means that drunks get to argue their "case." This dumbass has been CONVICTED of drunk driving 4 times in his 19 years. He's a 3-time loser and still has his license. Do I think the laws are unfair? I sure do. To the victims.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:37 pm

Bill Sikes;482332 wrote: Can you think of problems with this?

Actually, they are!

I was talking about my own jurisdiction really, I think that in general the U.K. has a much better philosophy than Ireland in terms of enforcing traffic laws in general, we over here for whatever reasons have had a laizze faire attitute to regulating our roads, for instance mandatory breath testing has only been brough in this year, 2006, and since it has been brought in the rates of prosecutions for drink driving have gone up by something like 80 percent. Its all becomming a crucial issue over here, because as the economy has boomed so has the amount of road traffic and drinking and drugs, and our old attitudes about things like this such as"ah shure it'll be grand" are not socially acceptable in the way they used to be. In terms of convitions, in the past in Ireland there have been many, many cases where people have literally gotten away with murder because of drink driving, in the past it was quite simply socially tolerated that many people drank and drove, it was seen as just "one of those things" despite the fact that the laws were pretty similar to those of the U.K., (it was the philosophy behind enforcement and Irish people's attitude about following rules that was wrong, and its one of the reasons why our accident death rates are twice as high as the U.K.). But, as things are changing here, so are attitudes, because as Ireland has become more busy, complex, and fast paced, we have come to recognize that in these kinds of areas its the countrys that actually really enforce their social laws such as the U.K. or Germany that are the examples to follow, and that our old way of doing things was not right. Of course getting people to just slow down when driving is another issue as well, and we need to deal with that as well.

cars · Post by **cars** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:20 am

BabyRider;482667 wrote: The drunk driver that I am currently battling is using every weapon at his extensive arsenal. The phuckers attorney is dragging the battle out by doing such repulsive things as bringing the breathalyzer machine that was used to test him into question. Since he's a minor, the lawyer is saying that the calibration of the machine can't accurately measure the amount of alcohol in his system. It's a desperate effort, and won't work, but it does create a much longer court case than would be normal. I am utterly revolted at the extensive means that drunks get to argue their "case." This dumbass has been CONVICTED of drunk driving 4 times in his 19 years. He's a 3-time loser and still has his license. Do I think the laws are unfair? I sure do. To the victims.

Wow, that kid must have some powerful connections to have been "convicted" of DD 3 times, & still have his license! Especially at 19, how long can he be driving, maybe 3 years? That's 1 DD a year!!! And now 4th! :-5