My friend and I are having a long discussion about the Holocaust. She is Jewish and tells me things no history teacher ever did.
She recently told me that a ship was turned away at a US port after the German commander begged us to take the Jews on board or they would die. We sunk the ship.
I felt really naive after hearing that. Could that have been true?
I hav eso much trouble understanding how such a heinous period existed in history without anyone knowing about it. People tell me "there was no media then- we didn't know." I maintain it was a white elephant in the room and no one wanted to talk about it. How could they not know? Did we not have US spies in Germany then? Would they not have known and reported to us what was happening to these unfortunate people?
It was what only 60 years ago roughly? That's still modern day! How could aNYONE "not know" what Hitler was doing to people?! I don't think it's possible myself. I think the US and other countries turned away for a time.
What do you guys think?
* I know this is a hot button issue but please let's keep our cool.
The Holocaust- how did it happen?!
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RedGlitter
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The Holocaust- how did it happen?!
RedGlitter;500459 wrote: My friend and I are having a long discussion about the Holocaust. She is Jewish and tells me things no history teacher ever did.
She recently told me that a ship was turned away at a US port after the German commander begged us to take the Jews on board or they would die. We sunk the ship.
I felt really naive after hearing that. Could that have been true?
I don't know about anyone else, but I sure as he|| wouldn't have trusted what the "enemy" was trying to feed me in an attempt to get closer.
To be honest, think about that for a minute...The United States committed 16.1 million military personnel to fight in WW2...Why would they turn away refuges?
I don't know, but I find it a little far fetched...but, then again, I don't really know the exact history of WW2.
She recently told me that a ship was turned away at a US port after the German commander begged us to take the Jews on board or they would die. We sunk the ship.
I felt really naive after hearing that. Could that have been true?
I don't know about anyone else, but I sure as he|| wouldn't have trusted what the "enemy" was trying to feed me in an attempt to get closer.
To be honest, think about that for a minute...The United States committed 16.1 million military personnel to fight in WW2...Why would they turn away refuges?
I don't know, but I find it a little far fetched...but, then again, I don't really know the exact history of WW2.
The Holocaust- how did it happen?!
Yes we (our governments) knew what was happening. We (Britain) didn't go to war because of how he treated his population, but only because of his empire building. The USA only joined because of pearl harbour.
Today similar things (but on a smaller scale) still go on and our governments choose to take no action. A cynic would say we only get involved if it's in our own neighbourhood or if the country has resources such as oil.
Today similar things (but on a smaller scale) still go on and our governments choose to take no action. A cynic would say we only get involved if it's in our own neighbourhood or if the country has resources such as oil.
The Holocaust- how did it happen?!
The part about the ship load of refugees is true, at least I've read about it. We tend to keep things that show us in a bad light quiet.
The Holocaust- how did it happen?!
caesar777;500467 wrote: The part about the ship load of refugees is true, at least I've read about it. We tend to keep things that show us in a bad light quiet.
Who's "us" exactly?...
I would have picked them up without thinking about...I don't know about anyone else.
Who's "us" exactly?...
I would have picked them up without thinking about...I don't know about anyone else.
The Holocaust- how did it happen?!
K.Snyder;500471 wrote: Who's "us" exactly?...
I would have picked them up without thinking about...I don't know about anyone else.
People in general, whatever race or nationality they are.
I would have picked them up without thinking about...I don't know about anyone else.
People in general, whatever race or nationality they are.
The Holocaust- how did it happen?!
The part about the ship load of refugees is false. I suggest that if anyone knows that it happened they produce a link to a history site which mentions it.
eta: you're probably thinking of the Struma...
Dec 12, 1941 - The ship "Struma" leaves Romania for Palestine carrying 769 Jews but is later denied permission by British authorities to allow the passengers to disembark. In Feb. 1942, it sails back into the Black Sea where it is intercepted by a Soviet submarine and sunk as an "enemy target."
eta: you're probably thinking of the Struma...
Dec 12, 1941 - The ship "Struma" leaves Romania for Palestine carrying 769 Jews but is later denied permission by British authorities to allow the passengers to disembark. In Feb. 1942, it sails back into the Black Sea where it is intercepted by a Soviet submarine and sunk as an "enemy target."
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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chonsigirl
- Posts: 33633
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The Holocaust- how did it happen?!
Have you not read The Diary of Anne Frank?
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RedGlitter
- Posts: 15777
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The Holocaust- how did it happen?!
chonsigirl;500503 wrote: Have you not read The Diary of Anne Frank?
Was that for me, Chonsi? Yes, I have- I don't doubt that it happened. I only can't believe that such a thing COULD happen. It's atrocious.
Was that for me, Chonsi? Yes, I have- I don't doubt that it happened. I only can't believe that such a thing COULD happen. It's atrocious.
The Holocaust- how did it happen?!
It's a complicated question and yes, countries did deliberately restrict the immigration of European Jews in the years leading up to the Second World War. The Holocaust was the culminating act of several anti-Jewish measures.
The Internet's filled with Holocaust denial sites and it's not a safe place to get facts on something to emotively discussed. Beware of anything you read on the Internet when it's charged with controversy.
Martin Gilbert is an impeccable historian who wrote what I consider the definitive account of the Holocaust. A brief chapter of his from the Oxford Companion to World War Two is at http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps/holoca ... lution.htm and I'd happily trust the content of that.To summarize what he says:
There were phases of expelling Jews from European life, initially from Germany.
The first phase, from 1933, was clearing villages to make them 'Jew-free' (Judenrein). "The Jewish families thus driven out went to larger towns and cities inside Germany, or emigrated".Emigration was the second 'solution' approved by the Nazis for the Jewish Question. From 1933 until the outbreak of war in 1939, the official policy of the German government permitted, and even encouraged, emigration. The property of the Jews who left, their shops, their livelihoods, their homes and their furniture, became part of the spoils of racism. Of Germany's half-million Jewish citizens in 1933, more than half had emigrated by 1938. Of these, more than 100,000 found refuge in the USA, 63,000 in Argentina, 52,000 in the UK and 33,000 in Palestine. [...]Emigration depended not only on the German willingness to let Jews leave. but also on the willingness of other states to take them in. Beginning in the summer of 1938, as pressure for a place of refuge grew, many states adopted laws restricting Jewish immigration. The third phase applied to Polish Jews and recreated the inner-city Ghettos in the larger cities, in which death by starvation was widespread. "The food ration imposed upon them was even smaller than that imposed upon the non-Jewish inhabitants of Poland. Anyone trying to leave the ghetto, or trying to smuggle food into the ghetto, faced execution. By April 1941 ghettos had been enforced throughout German-occupied Poland. By June the death toll from starvation had reached 2,000 a month in the Warsaw Ghetto (where half a million Jews were confined), and 800 a month in the Lódz Ghetto (where a quarter of a million were confined)".
The fourth phase, the death squads, began In June 1941 when the German Army invaded the Soviet Union. "Immediately following the troops were special killing squads or Einsatzgruppen, whose orders were to murder Jews in every locality. This was the fourth 'solution' after expulsion, emigration, and ghettoization. It led, within six months, to the murder of as many as a million Jews".
The mass industrialized murder in the concentration camps resulted from experiments begun in Spring 1941 on mass-killing technology which centred on gas chambers. By Autumn 1941 a department was set up under Adolf Eichmann, the 'Race and Resettlement Office', and in January 1942 a conference of civil servants, Nazi party and army representatives was held to coordinate the construction of facilities and the transfer of Jews from the whole of Europe to these concentration camp processing centres. This "final solution to the Jewish problem" operated into 1945 and resulted in most of the Jewish deaths of the Second World War.With that background we can get closer to your question of whether any of the uninvolved public knew at the time. They knew all about phases one, two and three. Phase four was witnessed by those at hand but, other than the executioners they weren't German, they were local Ukrainians and Russians. Some of the few German administrators in the region saw what was happening and protested to Berlin about the methods employed.
The death camps were sited mainly in Poland, not Germany, and again not many civilian Germans were aware of their function though everyone in Europe knew that the Jews were being shipped to Poland to an unknown fate. Nobody, I imagine, thought that anything desirable was happening there. Some escapees from the death camps got the story out and it was known to the Americans and British, and the Red Cross, by late 1943, when it was in full swing. Some people think that by diverting some Eastern European bomber raids to the European railway system the camp schedules could have been disrupted but it didn't happen.
The Internet's filled with Holocaust denial sites and it's not a safe place to get facts on something to emotively discussed. Beware of anything you read on the Internet when it's charged with controversy.
Martin Gilbert is an impeccable historian who wrote what I consider the definitive account of the Holocaust. A brief chapter of his from the Oxford Companion to World War Two is at http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps/holoca ... lution.htm and I'd happily trust the content of that.To summarize what he says:
There were phases of expelling Jews from European life, initially from Germany.
The first phase, from 1933, was clearing villages to make them 'Jew-free' (Judenrein). "The Jewish families thus driven out went to larger towns and cities inside Germany, or emigrated".Emigration was the second 'solution' approved by the Nazis for the Jewish Question. From 1933 until the outbreak of war in 1939, the official policy of the German government permitted, and even encouraged, emigration. The property of the Jews who left, their shops, their livelihoods, their homes and their furniture, became part of the spoils of racism. Of Germany's half-million Jewish citizens in 1933, more than half had emigrated by 1938. Of these, more than 100,000 found refuge in the USA, 63,000 in Argentina, 52,000 in the UK and 33,000 in Palestine. [...]Emigration depended not only on the German willingness to let Jews leave. but also on the willingness of other states to take them in. Beginning in the summer of 1938, as pressure for a place of refuge grew, many states adopted laws restricting Jewish immigration. The third phase applied to Polish Jews and recreated the inner-city Ghettos in the larger cities, in which death by starvation was widespread. "The food ration imposed upon them was even smaller than that imposed upon the non-Jewish inhabitants of Poland. Anyone trying to leave the ghetto, or trying to smuggle food into the ghetto, faced execution. By April 1941 ghettos had been enforced throughout German-occupied Poland. By June the death toll from starvation had reached 2,000 a month in the Warsaw Ghetto (where half a million Jews were confined), and 800 a month in the Lódz Ghetto (where a quarter of a million were confined)".
The fourth phase, the death squads, began In June 1941 when the German Army invaded the Soviet Union. "Immediately following the troops were special killing squads or Einsatzgruppen, whose orders were to murder Jews in every locality. This was the fourth 'solution' after expulsion, emigration, and ghettoization. It led, within six months, to the murder of as many as a million Jews".
The mass industrialized murder in the concentration camps resulted from experiments begun in Spring 1941 on mass-killing technology which centred on gas chambers. By Autumn 1941 a department was set up under Adolf Eichmann, the 'Race and Resettlement Office', and in January 1942 a conference of civil servants, Nazi party and army representatives was held to coordinate the construction of facilities and the transfer of Jews from the whole of Europe to these concentration camp processing centres. This "final solution to the Jewish problem" operated into 1945 and resulted in most of the Jewish deaths of the Second World War.With that background we can get closer to your question of whether any of the uninvolved public knew at the time. They knew all about phases one, two and three. Phase four was witnessed by those at hand but, other than the executioners they weren't German, they were local Ukrainians and Russians. Some of the few German administrators in the region saw what was happening and protested to Berlin about the methods employed.
The death camps were sited mainly in Poland, not Germany, and again not many civilian Germans were aware of their function though everyone in Europe knew that the Jews were being shipped to Poland to an unknown fate. Nobody, I imagine, thought that anything desirable was happening there. Some escapees from the death camps got the story out and it was known to the Americans and British, and the Red Cross, by late 1943, when it was in full swing. Some people think that by diverting some Eastern European bomber raids to the European railway system the camp schedules could have been disrupted but it didn't happen.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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chonsigirl
- Posts: 33633
- Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:28 am
The Holocaust- how did it happen?!
Yes, it happened. As did die the millions that Stalin also killed.
Holocaust.
Concentration Camps-we had them in the US too, you know. We intered the Japanese, displaced the Native Americans from their lands without their consent or restitution to build the camps, confiscated Japanese possessions, etc. I worked for years with a lady who was in Manzanar as a child, the stories were not a nice reflection on US policy during the war. They still are not today.
Holocaust.
Concentration Camps-we had them in the US too, you know. We intered the Japanese, displaced the Native Americans from their lands without their consent or restitution to build the camps, confiscated Japanese possessions, etc. I worked for years with a lady who was in Manzanar as a child, the stories were not a nice reflection on US policy during the war. They still are not today.
The Holocaust- how did it happen?!
chonsigirl;500512 wrote: Yes, it happened.Chonsi, that's a messy comment, the only question it can refer back to is "a ship was turned away at a US port after the German commander begged us to take the Jews on board or they would die. We sunk the ship. I felt really naive after hearing that. Could that have been true?" and I'm sure you didn't intend it to. Perhaps you'd like to comment on the ship explicitly as well as the historicity of the Holocaust, and clean up the confusion.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
The Holocaust- how did it happen?!
chonsigirl;500512 wrote: Yes, it happened. As did die the millions that Stalin also killed.
Holocaust.
Concentration Camps-we had them in the US too, you know. We intered the Japanese, displaced the Native Americans from their lands without their consent or restitution to build the camps, confiscated Japanese possessions, etc. I worked for years with a lady who was in Manzanar as a child, the stories were not a nice reflection on US policy during the war. They still are not today.
I dont think we were gassing the Japanese prisoners though. We saved that for our own soldiers in Viet Nam. And we werent especially efficient at plundering the Indian civilizations although the end result was the same. Were just not that good at it.
Holocaust.
Concentration Camps-we had them in the US too, you know. We intered the Japanese, displaced the Native Americans from their lands without their consent or restitution to build the camps, confiscated Japanese possessions, etc. I worked for years with a lady who was in Manzanar as a child, the stories were not a nice reflection on US policy during the war. They still are not today.
I dont think we were gassing the Japanese prisoners though. We saved that for our own soldiers in Viet Nam. And we werent especially efficient at plundering the Indian civilizations although the end result was the same. Were just not that good at it.
I AM AWESOME MAN
The Holocaust- how did it happen?!
I think the issue here is not so much 'didn't/don't we do horrible things, isn't it awful?' but 'why don't we - in an age of free speech, media frenzy and equal rights - know about the terrible decisions our governments make on our behalf?'
I must say, through what I have learned in conversations with people from the US, I am appalled at the lack of information you appear to be privy to. I have not been to the states, so I cannot judge first hand, but I am told that your media, for example, shows you little if any international news, and that which you do have access to is unforgivably censored and biased. I applaude any US citizen who seeks out this information that is so readily available in other countries. It worries me that the public of the World's only current superpower is, to this day, kept so utterly in the dark about the actions of its own government.
(This is not a criticism of the American people, merely at the structure of the media)
I must say, through what I have learned in conversations with people from the US, I am appalled at the lack of information you appear to be privy to. I have not been to the states, so I cannot judge first hand, but I am told that your media, for example, shows you little if any international news, and that which you do have access to is unforgivably censored and biased. I applaude any US citizen who seeks out this information that is so readily available in other countries. It worries me that the public of the World's only current superpower is, to this day, kept so utterly in the dark about the actions of its own government.
(This is not a criticism of the American people, merely at the structure of the media)
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RedGlitter
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- Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am
The Holocaust- how did it happen?!
Magenta, you're correct in the first part of your post- that's what i was going for. It boggles my mind that in a modern civilized society that this could havegone on under someone's nose without anyone knowing. I just don't buy it. It happened and was allowed to happen until it was convenient to step in. That is my opinion.
I have heard that comment before from others including a Canadian friend of mine, about US filtering its news and not showing what goes on in the world. Having never been to another country for long I can't say for certain, as could you, but I have to say I don't understand where anyone gets this notion. Where does it come from then?
I have heard that comment before from others including a Canadian friend of mine, about US filtering its news and not showing what goes on in the world. Having never been to another country for long I can't say for certain, as could you, but I have to say I don't understand where anyone gets this notion. Where does it come from then?
The Holocaust- how did it happen?!
I think it inevitably arises when the world is one big back garden - hop on a plane and in a matter of hours you're on the other side of the world. Travel amongst politically aware youngsters has never been so easy nor so popular, and business trips are almost more common than a day in the office. It is through friends that have spent significant time in the US, and American people I've met on my own travels, that I have this impression. Every time, I'm told how little they really know about international affairs until they exit the country. They've expressed shock at how glamorously the US government is portrayed in its own country - and only when viewing the situation from 'the outside in' - are presented with a more objective viewpoint (I say 'more' - no media is entirely impartial. I know that the scope of the British media is shameful in comparison to some European countries for example...). It really does worry me that intelligent, articulate people are shielded from important truths about their homeland and its governors. Evidently, there is a knowledge on some level that the truth would cause uproar, and perhaps rightly so, when the actions of certain American presidents are hailed as gallant and righteous among his own people whilst causing destruction and terrorism worldwide.
The Holocaust- how did it happen?!
The Holocaust- how did it happen?!
On the above question.....radio and newspaper news would have been repressed in the 1930s/40s, particularly in Germany....people would be sceptical about any such events which actually took place outside of Germany, they would also be in fear for their own lives and to a degree brainwashed into believing that they WERE the superior race.
Re. Magentas comments about the amount of 'world news' that is broadcast in the USA. I agree with her to a degree. There MAY be stuff that is surpressed here in the UK, but on the whole our 'media' news comes from ALL over the world...wherever the reporters are alllowed to go. We are closer 'by the mile' to Europe, Asia, Africa etc...maybe that makes a difference.
On the above question.....radio and newspaper news would have been repressed in the 1930s/40s, particularly in Germany....people would be sceptical about any such events which actually took place outside of Germany, they would also be in fear for their own lives and to a degree brainwashed into believing that they WERE the superior race.
Re. Magentas comments about the amount of 'world news' that is broadcast in the USA. I agree with her to a degree. There MAY be stuff that is surpressed here in the UK, but on the whole our 'media' news comes from ALL over the world...wherever the reporters are alllowed to go. We are closer 'by the mile' to Europe, Asia, Africa etc...maybe that makes a difference.
A smile is a window on your face to show your heart is home
The Holocaust- how did it happen?!
Clancy, I'm told German school children study the holocaust. Your uncle's wish came true.
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
The Holocaust- how did it happen?!
Clancy;500733 wrote: Anyone I've spoke to that has visited this place, they are left speechless.I've stood where Jacob Bronowski filmed this scene from The Ascent of Man, a few years after he died. My reaction was nothing like so eloquent - I'm amazed that he could speak coherently through his tears - but being there still recurs sometimes in my dreams. This has always been, in my mind, the most powerful piece of television ever broadcast.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
The Holocaust- how did it happen?!
It did happen, and it could happen again. I have Jewish friends who are as dear to me as sisters, or brothers. I have worked with Jewish women from Romania who still have numbers tatooed on their arms.
[FONT=Microsoft Sans Serif][/FONT]
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nvalleyvee
- Posts: 5191
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The Holocaust- how did it happen?!
I'll have to look it up but I remember being taught the US turned away a ship of Jewish refugees from Germany before we entered WWII. I thought it was shameful. Then we had Pearl Harbor.
It may be an urban myth that every country who turned their back in the early years of the war has its own shame to carry.
It may be an urban myth that every country who turned their back in the early years of the war has its own shame to carry.
The growth of knowledge depends entirely on disagreement..........Karl R. Popper
The Holocaust- how did it happen?!
I briefly read through most of the posts in this thread and would like to add my comments.
Every horrendous and insane thing you have ever heard about the holocaust is true, as unbelievable as that is. And what you have heard is just the tip of the iceberg.
The truly scary thing is that antisemitism is on the rise again to a much greater degree than since the "war" ended, but the United States is so concerned with being politically correct about everything that they (we) have lost the balls needed to speak the truth and quit trying to please everybody. The Ahmanidejabs of the Middle East have spread their poisonous tentacles everywhere, no land is safe from their spew of hatred and lies.
I am a Jew. I am also a Christian who follows Jesus (Yeshua) who came to the world first to the Jewish people, then to the Greeks, Romans, and everyone else through the preaching and teaching and traveling of His followers who were ALL JEWS at the start. I am happy to see that a lot of Jewish people are beginning to open their minds and hearts to see that He is the messiah they have been waiting for.
However, there is coming another holocaust of a different type, and the Jewish people and Israel will be blamed for this one as well.
But God is good, and only He knows why certain things work out the way they do.
He says in His Word that those who bless Israel will be blessed, and those who curse Israel will be cursed. I believe that. God chose the Jews to bring His Son into the world to save mankind from their evil nature, and God won't let evil men destroy His plans. The devil may have his way for a while, but the Lord is going to ultimately bring destruction on the evil ones who follow him (the devil).
I didn't know I was going to be so wordy, but there it is, I've said it.
Oh, here is a link to the Shoah foundation for anyone interested in more information: http://www.shoaheducation.com/
Every horrendous and insane thing you have ever heard about the holocaust is true, as unbelievable as that is. And what you have heard is just the tip of the iceberg.
The truly scary thing is that antisemitism is on the rise again to a much greater degree than since the "war" ended, but the United States is so concerned with being politically correct about everything that they (we) have lost the balls needed to speak the truth and quit trying to please everybody. The Ahmanidejabs of the Middle East have spread their poisonous tentacles everywhere, no land is safe from their spew of hatred and lies.
I am a Jew. I am also a Christian who follows Jesus (Yeshua) who came to the world first to the Jewish people, then to the Greeks, Romans, and everyone else through the preaching and teaching and traveling of His followers who were ALL JEWS at the start. I am happy to see that a lot of Jewish people are beginning to open their minds and hearts to see that He is the messiah they have been waiting for.
However, there is coming another holocaust of a different type, and the Jewish people and Israel will be blamed for this one as well.
But God is good, and only He knows why certain things work out the way they do.
He says in His Word that those who bless Israel will be blessed, and those who curse Israel will be cursed. I believe that. God chose the Jews to bring His Son into the world to save mankind from their evil nature, and God won't let evil men destroy His plans. The devil may have his way for a while, but the Lord is going to ultimately bring destruction on the evil ones who follow him (the devil).
I didn't know I was going to be so wordy, but there it is, I've said it.
Oh, here is a link to the Shoah foundation for anyone interested in more information: http://www.shoaheducation.com/
You can't control the wind, but you can adjust your sails.
The Holocaust- how did it happen?!
spot;500801 wrote: I've stood where Jacob Bronowski filmed this scene from The Ascent of Man, a few years after he died. My reaction was nothing like so eloquent - I'm amazed that he could speak coherently through his tears - but being there still recurs sometimes in my dreams. This has always been, in my mind, the most powerful piece of television ever broadcast.
I watched this over and over spot......words fail me about the content...too emotional.
I watched this over and over spot......words fail me about the content...too emotional.
A smile is a window on your face to show your heart is home
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RedGlitter
- Posts: 15777
- Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am
The Holocaust- how did it happen?!
I'm a bit too sleepy to make a worthy comment but I want to say thanks for the photos, the video and everyone's comments. Both the photos and video were...really... something. I don't have the right words tonight.
The Holocaust- how did it happen?!
Insomniac;501149 wrote: I briefly read through most of the posts in this thread and would like to add my comments.
Every horrendous and insane thing you have ever heard about the holocaust is true, as unbelievable as that is. And what you have heard is just the tip of the iceberg.
The truly scary thing is that antisemitism is on the rise again to a much greater degree than since the "war" ended, but the United States is so concerned with being politically correct about everything that they (we) have lost the balls needed to speak the truth and quit trying to please everybody. The Ahmanidejabs of the Middle East have spread their poisonous tentacles everywhere, no land is safe from their spew of hatred and lies.
I am a Jew. I am also a Christian who follows Jesus (Yeshua) who came to the world first to the Jewish people, then to the Greeks, Romans, and everyone else through the preaching and teaching and traveling of His followers who were ALL JEWS at the start. I am happy to see that a lot of Jewish people are beginning to open their minds and hearts to see that He is the messiah they have been waiting for.
However, there is coming another holocaust of a different type, and the Jewish people and Israel will be blamed for this one as well.
But God is good, and only He knows why certain things work out the way they do.
He says in His Word that those who bless Israel will be blessed, and those who curse Israel will be cursed. I believe that. God chose the Jews to bring His Son into the world to save mankind from their evil nature, and God won't let evil men destroy His plans. The devil may have his way for a while, but the Lord is going to ultimately bring destruction on the evil ones who follow him (the devil).
I didn't know I was going to be so wordy, but there it is, I've said it.
Oh, here is a link to the Shoah foundation for anyone interested in more information: http://www.shoaheducation.com/
Thank you for posting this link....it will take several hours to cover the content...I am already 'hooked' and anxious to learn more..
Every horrendous and insane thing you have ever heard about the holocaust is true, as unbelievable as that is. And what you have heard is just the tip of the iceberg.
The truly scary thing is that antisemitism is on the rise again to a much greater degree than since the "war" ended, but the United States is so concerned with being politically correct about everything that they (we) have lost the balls needed to speak the truth and quit trying to please everybody. The Ahmanidejabs of the Middle East have spread their poisonous tentacles everywhere, no land is safe from their spew of hatred and lies.
I am a Jew. I am also a Christian who follows Jesus (Yeshua) who came to the world first to the Jewish people, then to the Greeks, Romans, and everyone else through the preaching and teaching and traveling of His followers who were ALL JEWS at the start. I am happy to see that a lot of Jewish people are beginning to open their minds and hearts to see that He is the messiah they have been waiting for.
However, there is coming another holocaust of a different type, and the Jewish people and Israel will be blamed for this one as well.
But God is good, and only He knows why certain things work out the way they do.
He says in His Word that those who bless Israel will be blessed, and those who curse Israel will be cursed. I believe that. God chose the Jews to bring His Son into the world to save mankind from their evil nature, and God won't let evil men destroy His plans. The devil may have his way for a while, but the Lord is going to ultimately bring destruction on the evil ones who follow him (the devil).
I didn't know I was going to be so wordy, but there it is, I've said it.
Oh, here is a link to the Shoah foundation for anyone interested in more information: http://www.shoaheducation.com/
Thank you for posting this link....it will take several hours to cover the content...I am already 'hooked' and anxious to learn more..
A smile is a window on your face to show your heart is home
The Holocaust- how did it happen?!
nvalleyvee;501097 wrote: I'll have to look it up but I remember being taught the US turned away a ship of Jewish refugees from Germany before we entered WWII. I thought it was shameful. Then we had Pearl Harbor.
It may be an urban myth that every country who turned their back in the early years of the war has its own shame to carry.
The nearest I'm aware of to "a ship was turned away at a US port after the German commander begged us to take the Jews on board or they would die" and that "the US turned away a ship of Jewish refugees from Germany" is the St Louis which went from Europe to Cuba and back without landing passengers. Those events are described at http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... louis.html
The reason they sailed for Cuba in the first place is that the passengers hadn't got US entry visas. They intended to stay in Cuba until quota allocation of US entry visas got round to them, but nobody had arranged entry rights to Cuba either.By 1939, not only were visas needed to be able to enter another country but money was also needed to leave Germany. Since many countries, especially the United States, had immigration quotas, visas were near impossible to acquire within the short time spans in which they were needed. For many, the visas were acquired after it was too late.
It may be an urban myth that every country who turned their back in the early years of the war has its own shame to carry.
The nearest I'm aware of to "a ship was turned away at a US port after the German commander begged us to take the Jews on board or they would die" and that "the US turned away a ship of Jewish refugees from Germany" is the St Louis which went from Europe to Cuba and back without landing passengers. Those events are described at http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... louis.html
The reason they sailed for Cuba in the first place is that the passengers hadn't got US entry visas. They intended to stay in Cuba until quota allocation of US entry visas got round to them, but nobody had arranged entry rights to Cuba either.By 1939, not only were visas needed to be able to enter another country but money was also needed to leave Germany. Since many countries, especially the United States, had immigration quotas, visas were near impossible to acquire within the short time spans in which they were needed. For many, the visas were acquired after it was too late.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
The Holocaust- how did it happen?!
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... eline.html
This link not only covers Israel and Jewish issues, but also some interesting information about Islam and the Arab world in general.
This link not only covers Israel and Jewish issues, but also some interesting information about Islam and the Arab world in general.
A smile is a window on your face to show your heart is home
The Holocaust- how did it happen?!
Insomniac;501149 wrote: Every horrendous and insane thing you have ever heard about the holocaust is true, as unbelievable as that is. And what you have heard is just the tip of the iceberg.I'll offer you this, then, as idiocy which you suggest is true. I've no idea why you said that, but here we go...The Commercial Appeal (Memphis), September 18 1945:
"The prosecution charged Monday at the first mass trial of German war criminals that [...] inmates of Belsen were driven to cannibalism by mass starvation".And no, before anyone goes berserk at the suggestion, it's not true at all.
"The prosecution charged Monday at the first mass trial of German war criminals that [...] inmates of Belsen were driven to cannibalism by mass starvation".And no, before anyone goes berserk at the suggestion, it's not true at all.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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RedGlitter
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The Holocaust- how did it happen?!
Magenta flame;501200 wrote: OK I watched the You tube (short ****) and want to know what it was supposed to be saying in it's content that Spot wants to put forward here. Someone tell me what the hell I was supposed to get out of that crap.
ARE YOU SERIOUS? :-2
ARE YOU SERIOUS? :-2