How Long A Sentance 4 Murder

General discussion area for all topics not covered in the other forums.
RedGlitter
Posts: 15777
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am

How Long A Sentance 4 Murder

Post by RedGlitter »

For me it depends on the details of the crime. Was it a crime of passion? Was it an armed robbery? Drunk driving? I would make my choice by crime and not so much age.

What do you think Jesse?
User avatar
Imladris
Posts: 4798
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:29 am

How Long A Sentance 4 Murder

Post by Imladris »

I know it sounds harsh but I think that a life sentence should be much closer to life than it currently is.



A generation is usually measured in 25 year blocks so imo I think that should be a minimum term.



But obviously there are times when some discretion should be allowed and a lesser sentence applied or a longer one.



Having no previous criminal records shouldn't mean that the offender gets a reduced sentence in a murder case - minor crimes maybe but not murder.



As for getting a reduced sentence for pleading guilty - well that's just rollocks - the family of the victim doesn't get their sentence reduced so why should the killer.
Originally Posted by spot

She is one fit bitch innit, that Immy





Don't worry; it only seems kinky the first time
User avatar
Bill Sikes
Posts: 5515
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:21 am

How Long A Sentance 4 Murder

Post by Bill Sikes »

jesse b;534851 wrote: IF SOME ONE is found guilty of murder what do you all think is a fair sentence

should it be less if they have no police record

should it be less if they are under 18 (say17)

should they get more if they show no remorse or plead not guilty

just trying to get others veiws

all will be clear soon


Hm. Sentence? Depends on the particular murder. Police record? Presumably

*criminal* record, or just "known to police"? It might count for or against. For

people who are 17? I don't think that should make much difference, in general.

Harsher sentence for showing no remorse/pleading not guilty? Possibly. How

long should the sentence be? Depends on the circumstances!
User avatar
Bill Sikes
Posts: 5515
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:21 am

How Long A Sentance 4 Murder

Post by Bill Sikes »

jesse b;534874 wrote: lets say unprovoked attack


So someone's just somewhere, minding their own business entirely, and

someone else murders them, with no mitigating circumstances whatsoever?
User avatar
spot
Posts: 41439
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:19 pm
Location: Brigstowe

How Long A Sentance 4 Murder

Post by spot »

The English courts currently have no discretion at all in sentencing after a jury brings in a guilty verdict on a murderer who's18 or over at the time of the offence - the sentence can only be life imprisonment.

The judge can make a recommendation of a minimum term to be served before any parole hearing can be considered. Other than the parole process, the Home Secretary also has the power to override the parole board and detain or release at his own discretion.

Anyone who is subsequently released into the community is only let out on licence. That release licence is revoked if they are then convicted of any offence at all - they go back into the original life imprisonment for the original murder (as well as anything they might be additionally sentenced to) and the parole system has to be satisfied once again before they can get another release licence.

That's the meaning of "parole" - that the convict gives his word not to re-offend in any way and is released into the community to continue his sentence there instead of in jail. If the parole (his given word) is broken then the sentence is continued in jail again.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
User avatar
Bryn Mawr
Site Admin
Posts: 16137
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:54 pm

How Long A Sentance 4 Murder

Post by Bryn Mawr »

jesse b;534851 wrote: IF SOME ONE is found guilty of murder what do you all think is a fair sentence should it be less if they have no police record should it be less if they are under 18 (say17) should they get more if they show no remorse or plead not guilty just trying to get others veiws all will be clear soon jesse


Totally dependant on the circumstances of the crime. If it's a battered wife in fear of her life after years of abuse then I'd show a lot more leniency than I would to a Jeremy Bambour (Killed his adoptive parents to get the inheritance).

The two youths who kidnapped, tortured and killed a three year old would never get out of any prison I ran.
User avatar
Bryn Mawr
Site Admin
Posts: 16137
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:54 pm

How Long A Sentance 4 Murder

Post by Bryn Mawr »

jesse b;534885 wrote: yes


High, but still depends on the circumstances.

Your description could cover anything from borderline manslaughter to a brutal "kick the sh!t out of him 'till he's dead" manic attack.

Without more details there can be no answer.
User avatar
WonderWendy3
Posts: 12412
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 7:44 am

How Long A Sentance 4 Murder

Post by WonderWendy3 »

Bryn Mawr;534882 wrote: Totally dependant on the circumstances of the crime. If it's a battered wife in fear of her life after years of abuse then I'd show a lot more leniency than I would to a Jeremy Bambour (Killed his adoptive parents to get the inheritance).

The two youths who kidnapped, tortured and killed a three year old would never get out of any prison I ran.


I want you as my leader!!...I am one of those that believe in eye for an eye...of course this will cause alot of conflict, but I'm gonna say it. I believe that if someone murders another person...they should be killed the way they killed that person!! I have no tolerance for People that abuse/kill children...There would be alot less crime in the world, if we just took care of it right away...and didn't let them continue to exist in jails that WE pay for!!:-5
Carl44
Posts: 10719
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 9:23 am

How Long A Sentance 4 Murder

Post by Carl44 »

in a fair world they should of hung :mad: :mad:
User avatar
Bryn Mawr
Site Admin
Posts: 16137
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:54 pm

How Long A Sentance 4 Murder

Post by Bryn Mawr »

jesse b;534895 wrote: a man sat at a table mindinding own biz attack by let say 8 so called men who just want to make trouble

using chairs bottles man goes to ground

the one who felled main blow to back of unconsios man head

"kick the sh!t out of him 'till he's dead" manic attack.


Prior history between murdered man and assailents?
User avatar
Bill Sikes
Posts: 5515
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:21 am

How Long A Sentance 4 Murder

Post by Bill Sikes »

jesse b;534885 wrote: yes


That would be extremely rare and rather inexplicable! It's a difficult one. I might

go for "detention during Her Majesty's pleasure". I might go for simply offing the

said murderer, or locking them up for life. I might tend toward the first, though.

It's difficult to say what I'd consider right - without mitigating circumstances,

there might be some sort of "reason" - in quotes. As a first-off, the first sentence.
User avatar
Bryn Mawr
Site Admin
Posts: 16137
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:54 pm

How Long A Sentance 4 Murder

Post by Bryn Mawr »

WonderWendy3;534893 wrote: I want you as my leader!!...I am one of those that believe in eye for an eye...of course this will cause alot of conflict, but I'm gonna say it. I believe that if someone murders another person...they should be killed the way they killed that person!! I have no tolerance for People that abuse/kill children...There would be alot less crime in the world, if we just took care of it right away...and didn't let them continue to exist in jails that WE pay for!!:-5


but I'm one of those who do not believe in murder by the state. If it is not moral for an individual to kill another then I don't see it as moral for the state to do so.

Added to that the problem of being 100% certain of guilt and the impossibility of apologising if you turn out to be wrong, I'm against the death penalty but for life meaning life when the case warrents it.
User avatar
Bryn Mawr
Site Admin
Posts: 16137
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:54 pm

How Long A Sentance 4 Murder

Post by Bryn Mawr »

jesse b;534901 wrote: none


Sounds more like Broadmoor than the Scrubs.

AHMP can be an awful long time.
User avatar
Bryn Mawr
Site Admin
Posts: 16137
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:54 pm

How Long A Sentance 4 Murder

Post by Bryn Mawr »

jesse b;534911 wrote: what would you think of 12 years


For my tastes it's far to short, especially given likely paroll after 8 years, but given the current climate of "mustn't put anyone in prison 'cos there's no room" it's probably where you'd expect it to be.

I would hope that all eight received that sort of a term?
OzBoy
Posts: 174
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 5:05 am

How Long A Sentance 4 Murder

Post by OzBoy »

I always have trouble confirming my true opinion on this topic because as people have commented deciding on the punishment for serious crimes isn't always a straight forward black and white decision, however living in Britain and hearing about their jail crisis reignites my belief that prisons are not the answer either. Not only are they full, they also cost the taxpayer more and more each year, for example:

In 1991-1992, the average cost per prisoner per day was $124.8 in Australian dollars.

In May 1993, the total number of prisoners in Australia was 14,335!

The rate for imprisonment in Australia was 80.6 per 100,000 population.

Do the math, its bloody expensive housing these people and those figures are 4 years old! I do think in cases of straight out murder with no mitigating circumstances we should be considering the death penalty again, it’s obvious that no laws are going to irradiate our civilisation of these horrendous crimes nor the people that intentionally commit them so we need to accept that and challenge our belief and justice systems to reconsider our position on death penalties, the pros and cons of it and we should ask ouselves does the benefits that our society will gain from removing these unwanted humans from our world far outweigh our angst and moral dilemmas brought upon us when being made accountable and responsible for sentencing someone to death? An interesting debate I think!
User avatar
Bryn Mawr
Site Admin
Posts: 16137
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:54 pm

How Long A Sentance 4 Murder

Post by Bryn Mawr »

jesse b;534992 wrote: not so


Who lands the final blow is a lottery - they all showed intent and should all have shared the guilt.
User avatar
Bill Sikes
Posts: 5515
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:21 am

How Long A Sentance 4 Murder

Post by Bill Sikes »

Bryn Mawr;534906 wrote: Sounds more like Broadmoor than the Scrubs.

AHMP can be an awful long time.


If placement in a mental institution is indicated, there would be some mitigating

circumstances (being a nut).
User avatar
Bill Sikes
Posts: 5515
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:21 am

How Long A Sentance 4 Murder

Post by Bill Sikes »

jesse b;534992 wrote: not so


If this is a real case, perhaps you could provide some reference (even not

for disclosure, via PM)?
User avatar
Bryn Mawr
Site Admin
Posts: 16137
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:54 pm

How Long A Sentance 4 Murder

Post by Bryn Mawr »

Bill Sikes;535006 wrote: If placement in a mental institution is indicated, there would be some mitigating

circumstances (being a nut).


Don't you think that murderring a stranger without provocation hints at insanity?

If not a nut then, at the very least, a nutter.
weeder
Posts: 3130
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 3:05 am

How Long A Sentance 4 Murder

Post by weeder »

This is always such a difficult question to answer. There are always so many factors to consider. Facts, circumstance, psychological profile of the killer.

Intent? Premedatation? I would never be able to be in a position of having to make decisions regarding someones punishment. I know that these people must remain unemmotional and also are confined to what is oulined by laws.
[FONT=Microsoft Sans Serif][/FONT]
User avatar
Bill Sikes
Posts: 5515
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:21 am

How Long A Sentance 4 Murder

Post by Bill Sikes »

Bryn Mawr;535013 wrote: Don't you think that murderring a stranger without provocation hints at insanity?

If not a nut then, at the very least, a nutter.


Of course. That is a mitigating circumstance.
User avatar
Bryn Mawr
Site Admin
Posts: 16137
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:54 pm

How Long A Sentance 4 Murder

Post by Bryn Mawr »

Bill Sikes;535147 wrote: Of course. That is a mitigating circumstance.


Not so much a mittigating circumstance as a pointer to a different response - lock them into a secure asylum rather than a prison.

The criteria for getting out should be far stricter as the risks are higher.
User avatar
Wolverine
Posts: 4947
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 7:09 pm

How Long A Sentance 4 Murder

Post by Wolverine »

unless it's in self defense or in a combat situation, you can't kill anyone. ever.


Get your mind out of the gutter - it's blocking my view

Mind like a steel trap - Rusty and Illegal in 37 states.

User avatar
Bryn Mawr
Site Admin
Posts: 16137
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:54 pm

How Long A Sentance 4 Murder

Post by Bryn Mawr »

Wolverine;535172 wrote: unless it's in self defense or in a combat situation, you can't kill anyone. ever.


I'd agree with that - all that is left is to discuss the appropriate level of punishment for so doing.
User avatar
Wolverine
Posts: 4947
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 7:09 pm

How Long A Sentance 4 Murder

Post by Wolverine »

Bryn Mawr;535238 wrote: I'd agree with that - all that is left is to discuss the appropriate level of punishment for so doing.


death penatly for any adult who knowingly and willingly kills another.

for someone underage, life in prison. no parole.

if you accidentally killed someone..... reviewed case by case.

BUT, if someone dies cuz you were drunk; never drive again. wages garnished to reimburse the family you wrecked, and if they have kids; you're paying for college.


Get your mind out of the gutter - it's blocking my view

Mind like a steel trap - Rusty and Illegal in 37 states.

gadget
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2005 4:13 pm

How Long A Sentance 4 Murder

Post by gadget »

I believe that if a person is found guilty of murder (It has to be without any doubt!) then there should be a mandatory life sentence.

Life should mean life. Not ten years.
User avatar
Bryn Mawr
Site Admin
Posts: 16137
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:54 pm

How Long A Sentance 4 Murder

Post by Bryn Mawr »

Wolverine;535279 wrote: death penatly for any adult who knowingly and willingly kills another.

for someone underage, life in prison. no parole.

if you accidentally killed someone..... reviewed case by case.

BUT, if someone dies cuz you were drunk; never drive again. wages garnished to reimburse the family you wrecked, and if they have kids; you're paying for college.


I'd have to disagree with you there.
Patsy Warnick
Posts: 4567
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:53 am

How Long A Sentance 4 Murder

Post by Patsy Warnick »

Wolverine

you mentioned self defense - thats a fine line.

Jesse - 12 years for the one man is not long enough, I'm sorry.

The 2 who killed my nephew still have their freedom. - self defense.

Patsy
koan
Posts: 16817
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2004 1:00 pm

How Long A Sentance 4 Murder

Post by koan »

"Life" in Canada is 25 years as far as I know, but parole comes up before then.
User avatar
Wolverine
Posts: 4947
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 7:09 pm

How Long A Sentance 4 Murder

Post by Wolverine »

Bryn Mawr;535358 wrote: I'd have to disagree with you there.


so if someone went out and killed your best friend (had every intention of killing him) with malice in his heart, he shouldn't loose his life?


Get your mind out of the gutter - it's blocking my view

Mind like a steel trap - Rusty and Illegal in 37 states.

User avatar
Bryn Mawr
Site Admin
Posts: 16137
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:54 pm

How Long A Sentance 4 Murder

Post by Bryn Mawr »

Wolverine;535472 wrote: so if someone went out and killed your best friend (had every intention of killing him) with malice in his heart, he shouldn't loose his life?


First, prove it without any shadow of a doubt - I have yet to see that done.

A true life sentence without hope of parole beyond proof of innocence would be far more appropriate.

If that improsonment were to be in suitable conditions to fit the crime it would be far harsher than a painless death anyway.
User avatar
Wolverine
Posts: 4947
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 7:09 pm

How Long A Sentance 4 Murder

Post by Wolverine »

Bryn Mawr;535477 wrote: First, prove it without any shadow of a doubt - I have yet to see that done.

A true life sentence without hope of parole beyond proof of innocence would be far more appropriate.

If that improsonment were to be in suitable conditions to fit the crime it would be far harsher than a painless death anyway.


i can respect that. i don't necessarily understand it, but i respect it.:cool:


Get your mind out of the gutter - it's blocking my view

Mind like a steel trap - Rusty and Illegal in 37 states.

User avatar
Bryn Mawr
Site Admin
Posts: 16137
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:54 pm

How Long A Sentance 4 Murder

Post by Bryn Mawr »

Wolverine;535500 wrote: i can respect that. i don't necessarily understand it, but i respect it.:cool:


That's all that anyone can ask :-6
User avatar
spot
Posts: 41439
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:19 pm
Location: Brigstowe

How Long A Sentance 4 Murder

Post by spot »

jesse b;534883 wrote: what you refure too is known as a tarif

ok what is a fair tarif
To quote Lord Woolf, "it will still remain the case that murderers will only be released if the Parole Board is satisfied that they are no longer a danger".

Let me try to restate what I said in http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/showp ... ostcount=7 since it seems not to have been noticed. Nobody sentenced after a jury brings in a guilty verdict on a murderer who's 18 or over at the time of the offence (unless they have an appeal upheld against the verdict) completes their sentence until the day they die. Murderers are only released to serve their sentence in the community if the Parole Board is satisfied that they are no longer a danger. No "tariff" system automatically releases them. They can be recalled to continue their sentence at any time, at any age, for any number of years, if the police consider that they have broken their parole conditions which require them to stay away from crime.

The "tariff" which Jesse mentions is a recommendation from the judge about the date of the first Parole Board hearing to consider whether they continue to pose a danger to the public. No Parole Board hearing is a guarantee of a release into the community. The onus is on the convict to persuade the Board that he can be believed when he gives his word to stay clear of crime in future. I suspect that the Board would be influenced in its opinion if the convict has failed to experience regret for having murdered in the first place.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
pantsonfire321@aol.com
Posts: 2920
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 8:26 am

How Long A Sentance 4 Murder

Post by pantsonfire321@aol.com »

I'd like to see a life sentance actually be a life sentence . Let them rot.
Can go from 0 - to bitch in 3.0 seconds .:D







Smile people :yh_bigsmi







yep, this bitch bites back .;)
RedGlitter
Posts: 15777
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am

How Long A Sentance 4 Murder

Post by RedGlitter »

Wolverine;535279 wrote: death penatly for any adult who knowingly and willingly kills another.

for someone underage, life in prison. no parole.

if you accidentally killed someone..... reviewed case by case.

BUT, if someone dies cuz you were drunk; never drive again. wages garnished to reimburse the family you wrecked, and if they have kids; you're paying for college.


No. There isn't anyone these days who doesn't know the dangers of driving drunk. There is no excuse. Being wasted is not an excuse. A drunk driver who maims another should receive the punishments you mentioned but one who KILLS another because he drove drunk should be killed himself. :mad: Angry face directed at drunk drivers, not at you.
Carl44
Posts: 10719
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 9:23 am

How Long A Sentance 4 Murder

Post by Carl44 »

i probably should not of posted that post on here earlier about hanging them sorry about that , but i just got a flashback of my cousin sams two young kids screaming with grief at his grave as they lowered his coffin down, sam was a lovely man a good father, he never ever started trouble , and to be honest Bryn is right hanging is too good for this scum i want them to think about what they did ,the family they ruined, the people that are hurting i want them to know the sun is shinning but they cant ever enjoy it ,because thats how we feel ... for ever :-1 :-1
User avatar
spot
Posts: 41439
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:19 pm
Location: Brigstowe

How Long A Sentance 4 Murder

Post by spot »

There are only three reasons for having jails at all: to take revenge on an offender, to rehabilitate an offender, and to protect the public from an offender. Does anyone know any other reasons?

The Parole system for murderers is in place in England to extend the protection of the public from the offender for as long as the Board feels it's required. Until jail has rehabilitated that offender he will continue to serve his sentence in jail. There is no release into the community until the Board feels this has been achieved.

That only leaves revenge as a reason for keeping a murderer in jail beyond that point. Is revenge a good reason for extending jail time?

The ethics of killing the murderer are complicated but have nothing to do with the question I just asked. Killing a murderer depends on a cast-iron guarantee that society never ever kills a victim of a miscarriage of justice, which has always happened in the past when murderers have been killed by society. If matters ever reaches a point where society can do that, killing the murderer might become an option though other considerations would then need to be discussed. At the moment there is no possibility of making such a cast-iron guarantee.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Carl44
Posts: 10719
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 9:23 am

How Long A Sentance 4 Murder

Post by Carl44 »

i'd say revenge is one reason to keep them inside prison, but these people have records as long as your arm they hacked off someones arm , and dragged someone for miles behind a car with a rope and when the rope broke they just left him in the road , the public deserve to be protected from them also
Tater Tazz
Posts: 2938
Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:25 am

How Long A Sentance 4 Murder

Post by Tater Tazz »

I have to go with the eye for an eye therory.
User avatar
Bill Sikes
Posts: 5515
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:21 am

How Long A Sentance 4 Murder

Post by Bill Sikes »

RedGlitter;535651 wrote: No. There isn't anyone these days who doesn't know the dangers of driving drunk. There is no excuse. Being wasted is not an excuse. A drunk driver who maims another should receive the punishments you mentioned but one who KILLS another because he drove drunk should be killed himself. :mad: Angry face directed at drunk drivers, not at you.


Same for those using telephones?
RedGlitter
Posts: 15777
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am

How Long A Sentance 4 Murder

Post by RedGlitter »

That's a hard call Bill. I can't tell you yes or no until I've thought more on it. What do you think about it?

Then we could say fiddling with the radio, lighting a cigarette, slapping your kid in the backseat, etc, were all death deserving. Is it because phones are still relatively new and drunk driving is not? I don't know. All I can tell you is what I feel and that is if you mow someone over after you've had enough to impair your driving, you just murdered someone and might as well have done it willingly since you knew what booze can do.

I get on my friend all the time about her calling people and answering people on that stupid phone of hers while driving. She is not permitted to use her phone or answer it when I am with her in the car unless she pulls over to do so. When I'm home and she calls me from her car, I refuse to talk to her. I don't want her killing somebody. As it is, she's killed probably 15 rabbits while being on her phone and she blames the rabbits. :thinking::mad:

I wouldn't mind seeing a 50 year sentence for a phone death. Do you think I'm being harsh?
Post Reply

Return to “General Chit Chat”