Too many guns

maccat · Post by **maccat** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:12 am

Here in the UK we have very limited and controlled use of firearms in the police force. I think that is the reason our crime statistics are much lower than America,s. For example if a person was stopped in their car by the police and found to be carrying a gun, then it would be treated as a major incident over here. Where as in the US, it wouldn't be any big thing. Just another day on the streets of America. The more armed you have your police, the more armed it makes the criminal and it becomes a vicious circle. We complain about war causing so much death, and at the same time civilian life in the US and many more countrys is gun riddled. Other countrys should take a look at the UK and learn from our gun laws.

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Fibonacci · Post by **Fibonacci** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:19 am

Eliminating guns would do just that....Eliminate guns.

Any sort of criminal element would remain.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:23 am

Maccat, by that logic if we completely disarmed the police, the criminals would turn in all their weapons. That just doesn't follow. It's not the police's fault that criminals are armed.

Also, which American streets do you speak of? Do you write from experience, or are you perpetuating a stereotype?

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:43 am

I must agree with Fib (not that it's ever difficult to do!) in that criminals will always have guns. I think there seems to be a sentiment outside of the States that guns make criminals. I don't believe this to be true. I would be all for a country with no guns including none for criminals, but that just won't ever happen. So in that case, I'd rather live with good and honest people having guns as well as the bad guys having them.

I wish I could provide info on this but it's just some piece rattling in my brain after reading about it years ago. It was about a young woman carrying a concealed gun while she and her parents were eating in a restaurant. Some crackpot came in and started shooting at people. She shot him before he could hurt anyone else. I don't remember how many were killed or if she shot him dead (I think she did) but because of her actions, a bunch of people were spared that day. There are many more stories like that one that go untold. You always hear more bad than good. :-6

maccat · Post by **maccat** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:50 am

Theives and robbers are more likely to go out armed doing their crimes when they know all the police are. Guns equal death. I'm not suggesting totally disarming the police. We have specialist armed police squads that respond to armed incidents. We just don't have guns in everyones pocket.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:53 am

I don't understand anybody that blames the police for criminals being armed. It makes the criminal look like a victim.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:59 am

Guns can also equal life if one is saved.

A cop without a gun here is useless.

Regarding the special armed units, how many people could die during the time it takes them to arrive on scene? If you have a scumbag robbing the local donut shop and there's a cop in the area who sees it, if he's armed, he can take the guy down if necessary. If he has to page an armed backup unit, he's as useless as the person behind the counter and innocent people are going to die.

Not arguing here, just offering my view.

Mystery · Post by **Mystery** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:18 am

Taking guns away won't solve crime problems. It would just force the criminals to start using other types of weapons.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

I own guns, several of them actually, safely locked away in my home, and funnily enough I've never used one of them to kill a soul.

sunny104 · Post by **sunny104** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:04 am

you all really need to stop perpetuating these stereotypes about the US while downplaying the problems of your own countries, like I said the other day it's getting really tiring. :rolleyes:

here's an interesting article with some facts and figures: http://www.reason.com/news/show/28582.html

some points from it are that use of handguns in crime in England rose 40 percent in the first 2 years after the 1997 gun ban.

and a quote from The Mirror " Britain has overtaken the US for all major cimes."

Pheasy · Post by **Pheasy** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:15 am

I think that the Americans and British will probably not agree on this one. Which is odd for two countries who always stick together. Having lived in both countries it is obvious to me that we basically are very similar, but with slightly different approaches. I hate the amount of guns over here and much prefer the gun law in UK. I'm not sure if either law prevents or causes more crime. I just don't feel comfortable with the amount of people who own guns and carry them wherever they go.

I would be very interested to see more comments from the Brits and USA on this one, or our Aussie friends (isn't the Australian gun law similiar to UKs?).

Pheasy :-4

sunny104 · Post by **sunny104** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:19 am

ThePheasant;656366 wrote: I think that the Americans and British will probably not agree on this one. Which is odd for two countries who always stick together. Having lived in both countries it is obvious to me that we basically are very similar, but with slightly different approaches. I hate the amount of guns over here and much prefer the gun law in UK. I'm not sure if either law prevents or causes more crime. I just don't feel comfortable with the amount of people who own guns and carry them wherever they go.I would be very interested to see more comments from the Brits and USA on this one, or our Aussie friends (isn't the Australian gun law similiar to UKs?).

Pheasy :-4

where do you see that though??

I was born and raised here and the only people I know who would ever have a gun on them is when they go hunting........??

Pheasy · Post by **Pheasy** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:23 am

sunny104;656369 wrote: where do you see that though??

I was born and raised here and the only people I know who would ever have a gun on them is when they go hunting........??

I live in PA, maybe its just where I live. A lot of people I know keep a gun in their glove box at all times. We went to Philadelphia last year with our neighbours and he was carrying the gun on his person. We got lost in Philly and ended up in a bad side of town. At that point my neighbour got the gun out and had it ready on his lap. Scared the crud out of me :wah:

Bored_Wombat · Post by **Bored_Wombat** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:00 am

ThePheasant;656366 wrote: I would be very interested to see more comments from the Brits and USA on this one, or our Aussie friends (isn't the Australian gun law similiar to UKs?).

Pheasy :-4

In between. The cops are armed in Oz, but you can't get a license that allows you to lug a gun around with you, and anti-personnel guns aren't available.

New Zealand is like the UK. It gave me the heebie-jeebies to see the cops all with guns on their hips when I arrived.

Pheasy · Post by **Pheasy** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:43 am

Bored_Wombat;656393 wrote: In between. The cops are armed in Oz, but you can't get a license that allows you to lug a gun around with you, and anti-personnel guns aren't available.

New Zealand is like the UK. It gave me the heebie-jeebies to see the cops all with guns on their hips when I arrived.

I think all police should carry guns!

Bored_Wombat · Post by **Bored_Wombat** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:42 pm

ThePheasant;656503 wrote: I think all police should carry guns!
I much prefer them unarmed.

It certainly wouldn't prevent the deaths in custody, which is expecially high amongst the aboriginal people, but it would make it harder for them to kill people without arresting them first.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:24 pm

ThePheasant;656503 wrote: I think all police should carry guns!
I dunno. In Okinawa some cops had pistols, but most of them carried a five-foot-long stick. I definitely didn't want to mess with them. :-3

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:19 pm

Bored_Wombat;656393 wrote:

New Zealand is like the UK. It gave me the heebie-jeebies to see the cops all with guns on their hips when I arrived.

I wonder if that's a cultural thing. It either comforts me or doesn't make me feel anything when I see a cop with a gun. I expect to see that. Granted we have some renegade screwball cops but not nearly as many as what our tv cop shows portray I'm sure.

Bored_Wombat;656901 wrote: I much prefer them unarmed.

It certainly wouldn't prevent the deaths in custody, which is expecially high amongst the aboriginal people, but it would make it harder for them to kill people without arresting them first.

Why is there a problem with Aboriginal people?

Bored_Wombat · Post by **Bored_Wombat** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:43 pm

RedGlitter;656962 wrote: I wonder if that's a cultural thing. It either comforts me or doesn't make me feel anything when I see a cop with a gun. I expect to see that. Granted we have some renegade screwball cops but not nearly as many as what our tv cop shows portray I'm sure.
I guess. I hadn't seen guns on police except when there were shots of the armed offenders squad on the news, and then suddenly it was holy crap! There are all these guns! It doesn't shock me now.

Although I would prefer they didn't just from a civil rights perspective. The imbalance between the police and the people is an erosion of rights because one feels threatened. It's not so much a problem in the US, I guess since gun ownership is more common. In Australia it's illegal to own a bullet proof vest ... after all the police might want to shoot you.

RedGlitter;656962 wrote: Why is there a problem with Aboriginal people?

They die a lot in police custody.

Actually they die a lot wherever they go. Australia has a hugely abusive history, (and for that matter present) of the Aborigines. Aussies don't really celebrate diversity.