This has upset a few people - The Golden Compass

Pheasy · Post by **Pheasy** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:56 am

I just recvd an email about this film. First I heard of it to be honest. Apparently it has religious people hopping mad.......

http://www.firstshowing.net/2007/10/10/ ... s-trailer/

Quoted from Link given below .....

There will be a new Children's movie out in December called THE GOLDEN COMPASS. It is written by Phillip Pullman, a proud athiest who belongs to secular humanist societies. He hates C. S. Lewis's Chronical's of Narnia and has written a trilogy to show the other side. The movie has been dumbed down to fool kids and their parents in the hope that they will buy his trilogy where in the end the children kill God and everyone can do as they please. Nicole Kidman stars in the movie so it will probably be advertised a lot. This is just a friendly warning that you sure won't hear on the regular TV.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/compass.asp

Anyone else heard stuff about it ?

WonderWendy3 · Post by **WonderWendy3** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:58 am

Yes, vaguely...my Aunt told me that she used to like Nicole Kidman...not NO MORE!!....other than that....nuthin'

Pheasy · Post by **Pheasy** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:01 pm

I am not really religious ... but I do feel uncomfortable with a children's movie that ends with children killing god. I'm just wondering if this is true.

littlemissgiggle · Post by **littlemissgiggle** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:03 pm

children that kill god, no way

i keep seeing billboards for it but i haven't really heard anything about it.

that is shocking though

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:10 pm

ThePheasant;727355 wrote: I just recvd an email about this film. First I heard of it to be honest. Apparently it has religious people hopping mad.......

http://www.firstshowing.net/2007/10/10/ ... s-trailer/

Quoted from Link given below .....

There will be a new Children's movie out in December called THE GOLDEN COMPASS. It is written by Phillip Pullman, a proud athiest who belongs to secular humanist societies. He hates C. S. Lewis's Chronical's of Narnia and has written a trilogy to show the other side. The movie has been dumbed down to fool kids and their parents in the hope that they will buy his trilogy where in the end the children kill God and everyone can do as they please. Nicole Kidman stars in the movie so it will probably be advertised a lot. This is just a friendly warning that you sure won't hear on the regular TV.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/compass.asp

Anyone else heard stuff about it ?

I looked at the trailer and am now probably damned forever. Certain Christian groups would burn and destroy many books and films (if they could) that they deem the work of SATAN, witches, hobgoblins and probably even the Little People. People of faith should not be so insecure or fearful for their children's ability to separate fact from fiction and entertainment. Long Live Freethought!!!

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:17 pm

I have read all three books, and its ridiculous, you might as well ban Lord of the Rings for suggesting that there are multiple gods, (including evil ones), or for promoting witchcraft etc etc. The Phillip Pullman books are excellent examples of Children's literature, I think they are books that are deeply moral actually and are also cracking reads. Its bad enough that the people who made the film took out all of the references to religion because they are afraid of the "moral majority" backlash, its even more extra-ordinary that despite this the closed-minds brigade are still causing a rumpus.

I just can't understand the kind of mindset of people who want to ban things like Harry Potter or this example, its akin to the people in Sudan who want to give a teacher 40 lashes for allowing her children to name their teddy bear Mohammed. Its this kind of nonsense that gives religion a bad name if you ask me. What a joke.

Pheasy · Post by **Pheasy** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:21 pm

Galbally;727366 wrote: I have read all three books, and its ridiculous, you might as well ban Lord of the Rings for suggesting that there are multiple gods, (including evil ones), or for promoting witchcraft etc etc. The Phillip Pullman books are excellent examples of Children's literature, I think they are books that are deeply moral actually and are also cracking reads. Its bad enough that the people who made the film took out all of the references to religion because they are afraid of the "moral majority" backlash, its even more extra-ordinary that despite this the closed-minds brigade are still causing a rumpus.

I just can't understand the kind of mindset of people who want to ban things like Harry Potter or this example, its akin to the people in Sudan who want to give a teacher 40 lashes for allowing her children to name their teddy bear Mohammed. Its this kind of nonsense that gives religion a bad name if you ask me. What a joke.

Ah good, someone who knows the story. I have not read the stories, and think I might now. So, are these religious people are wrong? I'm trying to work out if the email and web details (second link) are actually true. Does the movie end with children killing god (or whomever we see as the opposite to evil)?

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:30 pm

I don't have a problem with Harry Potter or the Lord of the Rings movies because they are science fiction. But I won't be watching or letting my kids watch this movie because of the underlying anti-religion theme. Everything I've read about this movie says it's been dumbed down of the anti-religion. But I'm still not comfortable letting my kids watch a movie that says their God is the enemy.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:39 pm

ThePheasant;727367 wrote: Ah good, someone who knows the story. I have not read the stories, and think I might now. So, are these religious people are wrong? I'm trying to work out if the email and web details (second link) are actually true. Does the movie end with children killing god (or whomever we see as the opposite to evil)?

Oh I dunno, not really, I suppose you could say alegorically "yes" if you really wanna interpret it that way, but in the same way you could say that Frodo Baggins murders Satan at the end of Lord of the Rings by dropping the ring into the cracks of doom. Its a fantasy book and has as much connection to reality as Harry Potter (though imo the Phillip Pullman books are much better than the Harry Potter ones, if pitched at older children). My suggestion is that if you are concerned and have the time, then read one of them and see for yourself, you will see that its all a load of nonsense about the books being bad for children's minds. You know, it strikes me that in these days of kids glued to watching god-awful moronic violent stuff on TV, the Internet, and Video Games, we really shouldn't be discouraging young people from reading, particularly when the books in question are of such a high standard, very depressing.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:45 pm

Sheryl;727369 wrote: I don't have a problem with Harry Potter or the Lord of the Rings movies because they are science fiction. But I won't be watching or letting my kids watch this movie because of the underlying anti-religion theme. Everything I've read about this movie says it's been dumbed down of the anti-religion. But I'm still not comfortable letting my kids watch a movie that says their God is the enemy.

But this book is also Fantasy like the first two, I mean its not for me to tell you what to do you have every right to decide what you want your kids to see (I mean that sincerely), but really what's being said about the books is ridiculous, it really is.

I would say that the best way to remove pernicious influences any kid's lives would be to throw the TV out, thats the real problem with most modern western kids their conception of what happens in the world around them is now almost exclusively based on what they see on television, and TV tells people to be afraid of everything, to consume as much as possible, and to solve almost all problems with violence. I really don't think that thought-provoking children's books are what is wrong with our societies.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:57 pm

I read one of them but got bored before finishing it. I don't particularly like fantasy. I haven't read lord of the Rings either.

The more religious groups protest about anything they view as anti religion then the more there is a need for those kind of films and books. They day these nutters get their way would be a sad one indeed. What is it about them they want to control what people are allowed to watch or read? If they don't want to see it then don't go and see it just don't try and stop others who don't share your beliefs doing so.

posted by sheryl

I don't have a problem with Harry Potter or the Lord of the Rings movies because they are science fiction. But I won't be watching or letting my kids watch this movie because of the underlying anti-religion theme. Everything I've read about this movie says it's been dumbed down of the anti-religion. But I'm still not comfortable letting my kids watch a movie that says their God is the enemy.

They're fantasy not science fiction. so was the chronicles of narnia, So is this film.

When Lord of the rings came out there were all these daft discussions about how it was religious- good against evil, about the nazis when anyone with a cursory knowledge of european mythology would have realised where the inspiration came from.

saffy · Post by **saffy** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:13 pm

His dark Materials are the most amazing set of books. My 9 year old has just read the northern lights and will be working her way through the last 2 in her own time.

Jasper · Post by **Jasper** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:13 pm

Imagine there's no Heaven

It's easy if you try

No hell below us

Above us only sky

:-6:)

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:15 pm

I think its also right to point out that some of the greatest works of literature in the English language are deeply anti-religious or anti-clerical, I mean how do you think the reformation happened, wasn't that a good thing in terms of opening up the human mind? Would you stop your children looking at the Ceiling of the Cistine Chapel because Michaelangelo was gay? I mean would people really want to stop young people from reading books by Herodutus, Livy, Homer, Caesar, (all pagans); Gibbon, Thomas Paine, Martin Luther, Joyce, (anti-clerical). Obviously not.

What about Mein Kampf by Hitler, I mean thats a pretty horrid book, but we don't ban it as just because you might read it doesn't mean you are going to turn into a Nazi (unless you happen to strongly agree with him, and if you do then thats because you are pre-disposed to think that way!). Of course young minds are vunerable to suggestion and peer pressure, so parents are always worried about them picking up bad ideas, though if you give your children a good learning environment and a heathy understanding that once you get past a certain age then its up to the individual to make up their own minds about what they believe, then they should be pretty well able to cope with reading about philosophical or religious ideas that they, or their parents disagree with disagree with. There really are more deserving targets than the Phillip Pullman books.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:20 pm

I would seriously doubt anyone kills God. *eyerolls*

My good friend loves these books and happens to be very religious as well.

Christians (ok, *many* Christians, not all) don't like the concept of fantasy or magic because it threatens their narrow views. Which is ridiculous as God gave us all imaginations for a reason.

I'm seeing the movie although I abhor Kidman.

AussiePam · Post by **AussiePam** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:22 pm

I haven't read the books so can't comment on them, but I'm against censorship. Kids need to read and see a very wide variety of things, with parents joining with them in discussions and helping them learn to sort the wheat from the chaff.

On the killing of God - didn't humanity already do that? At least it's my understanding that that is what Christians (I am one) believe.

Pheasy · Post by **Pheasy** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:32 pm

So this movie is about witches, warlocks , dragons etc. So where are these people, who claim that this movie is more about devil worship and the killing of god getting their facts from.

The email I revcd. was titled 'This makes me so angry!!!'

contents .....

I usually wouldn't do something like this, but this really makes me angry especially right around Christmas time.

Please don't go to see this trash!!!!! I made this e-mail tonight so you all are going to have to spread this around if you are upset as I am

I'm trying to understand what has upset this person so much. I want to reply, but quite honestly am struggling. :-5

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:38 pm

Galbally;727374 wrote: But this book is also Fantasy like the first two, I mean its not for me to tell you what to do you have every right to decide what you want your kids to see (I mean that sincerely), but really what's being said about the books is ridiculous, it really is.

I would say that the best way to remove pernicious influences any kid's lives would be to throw the TV out, thats the real problem with most modern western kids their conception of what happens in the world around them is now almost exclusively based on what they see on television, and TV tells people to be afraid of everything, to consume as much as possible, and to solve almost all problems with violence. I really don't think that thought-provoking children's books are what is wrong with our societies.

Maybe when my children are older and can understand that the book/movie is fantasy I will let them read or watch the movie. My son has seen Harry Potter and he understands that it's not real. That elves and such are not real. I guess my main beef is with the author's very vocal anti-religion point of view.

And I agree with you about television, it's full of crap.

911 · Post by **911** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:43 pm

I've heard all this and more. I have not read the books, though they sound compelling, by the way, I am a Christian and I did read the Harry Potter books and I watched Bewitched as a kid. :wah:

I can't stand Kidmon, one reason to not go. But mostly I heard it was a badly made movie. But that could have come from someone who has read the books. Movies are always a disappointment if you read the book first.

If and when it comes on HBO, I'll probably watch it. Of course, that could be cuz I don't go to the movies much. Too many kids screaming, feet sticking to the floor, babies crying. Good Lawd, if I wanted that, I'd stay home. So, you see my conundrum. . . :wah:

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:53 pm

RedGlitter;727384 wrote: I would seriously doubt anyone kills God. *eyerolls*

My good friend loves these books and happens to be very religious as well.

Christians (ok, *many* Christians, not all) don't like the concept of fantasy or magic because it threatens their narrow views. Which is ridiculous as God gave us all imaginations for a reason.

I'm seeing the movie although I abhor Kidman.

I think Friedrich Nitzsche claimed to have killed god round about the 1890 period. Now I am not sure if God is really dead as the celebrated German Philosopher assured us he was, but Nitzsche certainly is, so I guess that God (if that is his real name) had the last laugh on him. :wah:

DISLAIMER: No insult intended to God or any human being now living, if Nitzsche is offended then the onus is on him to rise from the dead and complain in writing.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:55 pm

Galbally....good call. :wah:

Chookie · Post by **Chookie** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:28 pm

These people who are complaining about the Golden Compass are the same idiots who wanted to ban the Life of Brian from American cinemas. Allegedly because of it's anti-religious (Christian, in the case of Brian) bias.

Now, I don't normally like Monty Python, but the Life of Brian was absolutely freaking hilarious.

If these believers are unable to suspend their prejudices long enough to watch a film or read a book, or if they so insecure in their religious beliefs as to condemn this film without actually seeing it, I feel sorry for them.

Post by **spot** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:49 pm

The God who gets killed at the end of the trilogy is (as I interpreted what I was reading) William Blake's "Ancient of Days" and totally senile. The trilogy by that point has reached a stage of very bad parody with Pullman desperate to tie things up and be rid of the entire literary project in my opinion. He seems to have set off into volume three thinking he was Milton Reborn and Milton he ain't. There's very little in Volume 3 that influences volume 1 as far as the theology goes.

AP, you're the only Christian I've ever spoken to who thinks God's dead, it's a wonderful position to have reached. I never managed to read Nietzsche pther than in summary but I'm moderately convinced that Dietrich Bonhoeffer argued that grown-up Christianity needed to get along without God (I may be traducing the man dreadfully and my library's in tatters so I don't insist on that). He much impressed me. Christianity without God isn't an impossible position to adopt at all.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:04 pm

spot;727502 wrote: The God who gets killed at the end of the trilogy is (as I interpreted what I was reading) William Blake's "Ancient of Days" and totally senile. The trilogy by that point has reached a stage of very bad parody with Pullman desperate to tie things up and be rid of the entire literary project in my opinion. He seems to have set off into volume three thinking he was Milton Reborn and Milton he ain't. There's very little in Volume 3 that influences volume 1 as far as the theology goes.

AP, you're the only Christian I've ever spoken to who thinks God's dead, it's a wonderful position to have reached. I never managed to read Nietzsche pther than in summary but I'm moderately convinced that Dietrich Bonhoeffer argued that grown-up Christianity needed to get along without God (I may be traducing the man dreadfully and my library's in tatters so I don't insist on that). He much impressed me. Christianity without God isn't an impossible position to adopt at all.

I like your take on the Pulman books, interesting. I don't know Milton very well (Sorry, I will try harder), but its my bet that you are probably right. I definetly agree that the trilogy deteriorates from the first book to the third, though I enjoyed it. Though to be honest I just read it like Harry Potter, charming kids stuff. He does have literary ambitions though.

neffy · Post by **neffy** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:16 pm

i think at the end of the day it is only a film................its no different to lets say a horror film really,pwople should be allowed to make there own minds up

AussiePam · Post by **AussiePam** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:29 pm

spot;727502 wrote:

AP, you're the only Christian I've ever spoken to who thinks God's dead

I'm just a very simple believer, Spot. There was a time when I read theology and I'm acquainted with the literature generally. Eventually I tossed that all out and just went back to basics. I'm not ashamed of being just a very simple believer. Non intellectual. Non "modern". Non sophisticated. For me, Jesus is God, or at least one part of the Trinity which is God. Mankind killed him. God allowed himself to be killed. Then there was the Resurrection. So he didn't stay dead. Sure, I don't understand it, but there's a lot of stuff I don't understand.

I never cared for the CS Lewis books. Much too smug, somehow. Loved Harry Potter - and haven't read the books in question - to go back on the track of this thread.

Post by **spot** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:56 pm

AussiePam;727592 wrote: I never cared for the CS Lewis books. Much too smug, somehow. CS Lewis as a fiction writer has always made me want to find a corner to throw up in, he's an abomination and an offence against children.

mikeinie · Post by **mikeinie** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:00 am

The more the argument goes on, the more people will go see the movie. I don’t kids will walk away from the movie deep in thought reflecting their religion beliefs and researching Atheism, I think that they will be amazed by the special effects of the animals and the adventure of the movie.

There were protests about the Chronicles of Narnia as well because of the religious undertones; my kids just liked the movie.

The more the argument goes on, the more people will go see the movie. I don’t kids will walk away from the movie deep in thought reflecting their religion beliefs and researching Atheism, I think that they will be amazed by the special effects of the animals and the adventure of the movie.

There were protests about the Chronicles of Narnia as well because of the religious undertones; my kids just liked the movie.

'Down with this sort of thing.....'