Time for Britain to reconsider the Euro?
Time for Britain to reconsider the Euro?
OK, another perennial question but still interesting. Given the general success of the single currency, the recent events in British banking, and the bad handling of the Northern Rock by the Bank of England, do U.K. posters feel more or less amenable to joining the Euro zone? Sterling is more than holding its own at present as a currency and the UK is still a very Eurosceptic country in general so the question is probably moot, but do you think that the success of the currency would make British people less hostile to the idea?
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Time for Britain to reconsider the Euro?
nope dont want it we have given the eu too much power already
"To be foolish and to recognize that one is foolish, is better than to be foolish and imagine that one is wise."
Time for Britain to reconsider the Euro?
Galbally;729933 wrote: OK, another perennial question but still interesting. Given the general success of the single currency, the recent events in British banking, and the bad handling of the Northern Rock by the Bank of England, do U.K. posters feel more or less amenable to joining the Euro zone? Sterling is more than holding its own at present as a currency and the UK is still a very Eurosceptic country in general so the question is probably moot, but do you think that the success of the currency would make British people less hostile to the idea?
Kind of depends who you ask. As in ask businesses that actually trade with europe and they're all in favour. For some reason much of our out media tend to be anti european but then anything Rupert Murdoch thinks is a bad idea I am all in favour of. I reckon the rampant anti snp stance of his papers in scotland helped them to win.
Considering the way things were before we managed to beg our way in to membership we've done quite well out of the EU. Just too bad the price was our fishing industry. Most of the much vaunted inward investment that helped turn things around would not have materialised had we not joined. I find the odd member of UKIP that you come across quite passionate but haven't thought very much.
We can't ignore european legislation so we may as well have a say in making it. Certainly all those who have taken advantage of it to take govt agencies to court have found it useful. Most of the problems have arisen because of how our gov has implemented it. We've got more trade opportunities with the EU and china than we do with the rest of the world and being part of a powerful trading bloc has major advantages.
As to the euro? why not? I still find people who lament the introduction of decimalisation strange although I still think in terms of MPG and distance in miles but measure everything in metric. Personally I don't see any major reason why not.
What about Ireland-euro good or bad.
Kind of depends who you ask. As in ask businesses that actually trade with europe and they're all in favour. For some reason much of our out media tend to be anti european but then anything Rupert Murdoch thinks is a bad idea I am all in favour of. I reckon the rampant anti snp stance of his papers in scotland helped them to win.
Considering the way things were before we managed to beg our way in to membership we've done quite well out of the EU. Just too bad the price was our fishing industry. Most of the much vaunted inward investment that helped turn things around would not have materialised had we not joined. I find the odd member of UKIP that you come across quite passionate but haven't thought very much.
We can't ignore european legislation so we may as well have a say in making it. Certainly all those who have taken advantage of it to take govt agencies to court have found it useful. Most of the problems have arisen because of how our gov has implemented it. We've got more trade opportunities with the EU and china than we do with the rest of the world and being part of a powerful trading bloc has major advantages.
As to the euro? why not? I still find people who lament the introduction of decimalisation strange although I still think in terms of MPG and distance in miles but measure everything in metric. Personally I don't see any major reason why not.
What about Ireland-euro good or bad.
Time for Britain to reconsider the Euro?
gmc;730074 wrote: Kind of depends who you ask. As in ask businesses that actually trade with europe and they're all in favour. For some reason much of our out media tend to be anti european but then anything Rupert Murdoch thinks is a bad idea I am all in favour of. I reckon the rampant anti snp stance of his papers in scotland helped them to win.
Considering the way things were before we managed to beg our way in to membership we've done quite well out of the EU. Just too bad the price was our fishing industry. Most of the much vaunted inward investment that helped turn things around would not have materialised had we not joined. I find the odd member of UKIP that you come across quite passionate but haven't thought very much.
We can't ignore european legislation so we may as well have a say in making it. Certainly all those who have taken advantage of it to take govt agencies to court have found it useful. Most of the problems have arisen because of how our gov has implemented it. We've got more trade opportunities with the EU and china than we do with the rest of the world and being part of a powerful trading bloc has major advantages.
As to the euro? why not? I still find people who lament the introduction of decimalisation strange although I still think in terms of MPG and distance in miles but measure everything in metric. Personally I don't see any major reason why not.
What about Ireland-euro good or bad.
Oh the Euro is fine, we are not really emotional about it really, who cares how your monetary system is organized as long as it works well and in your interest, and the Euro is fine. Its also obviously handy for going anywhere in Europe as we all have the same money now so its much easier to buy and sell things on Ebay (or a business etc). Though to be honest Sterling is a pain as its made going to the U.K. really expensive as Sterling is so strong.
Though you get a lot of Dollars for your Euros so a lot of Irish are going shopping in New York instead of London these days. When the changeover happened there was a little bit of "rounding up" with prices (probably like decimalization), but I didn't really notice any problem, we got used to it fairly quickly and now its just proper money (if you know what I mean). I have a selfish reason for wanting Britain to join the Euro as its a pain in the arse changing to Sterling and its way overvalued so everything in Britain (like Villa tickets) are really expensive.
Considering the way things were before we managed to beg our way in to membership we've done quite well out of the EU. Just too bad the price was our fishing industry. Most of the much vaunted inward investment that helped turn things around would not have materialised had we not joined. I find the odd member of UKIP that you come across quite passionate but haven't thought very much.
We can't ignore european legislation so we may as well have a say in making it. Certainly all those who have taken advantage of it to take govt agencies to court have found it useful. Most of the problems have arisen because of how our gov has implemented it. We've got more trade opportunities with the EU and china than we do with the rest of the world and being part of a powerful trading bloc has major advantages.
As to the euro? why not? I still find people who lament the introduction of decimalisation strange although I still think in terms of MPG and distance in miles but measure everything in metric. Personally I don't see any major reason why not.
What about Ireland-euro good or bad.
Oh the Euro is fine, we are not really emotional about it really, who cares how your monetary system is organized as long as it works well and in your interest, and the Euro is fine. Its also obviously handy for going anywhere in Europe as we all have the same money now so its much easier to buy and sell things on Ebay (or a business etc). Though to be honest Sterling is a pain as its made going to the U.K. really expensive as Sterling is so strong.
Though you get a lot of Dollars for your Euros so a lot of Irish are going shopping in New York instead of London these days. When the changeover happened there was a little bit of "rounding up" with prices (probably like decimalization), but I didn't really notice any problem, we got used to it fairly quickly and now its just proper money (if you know what I mean). I have a selfish reason for wanting Britain to join the Euro as its a pain in the arse changing to Sterling and its way overvalued so everything in Britain (like Villa tickets) are really expensive.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Time for Britain to reconsider the Euro?
el guapo;730055 wrote: nope dont want it we have given the eu too much power already
Fair Nough.
Fair Nough.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Time for Britain to reconsider the Euro?
Galbally;729933 wrote: OK, another perennial question but still interesting. Given the general success of the single currency, the recent events in British banking, and the bad handling of the Northern Rock by the Bank of England, do U.K. posters feel more or less amenable to joining the Euro zone? Sterling is more than holding its own at present as a currency and the UK is still a very Eurosceptic country in general so the question is probably moot, but do you think that the success of the currency would make British people less hostile to the idea?
Not interested - the only reason that we've had over a decade of financial stability in the UK is the fact we control our own market. The MPC has done a damn'd fine job of regulating the economy (one one letter to the Governor in that time).
OK, so the EU has not done too badly over the past two years but they went through some rocky times before that and the ECB took a long time to get up to speed - mostly by learning from the example of the MPC
The main problem is that each of the countries in Euroland has its own fiscal and foreign policies which means that their economies are all pulling in different directions. The tools available to the ECB / MPC are crude at the best of times and cannot cope without the co-operation of the Exchequer and a central direction for the economy, so, until we enter the United States of Europe (which I hope never to see whilst Brussels is ruled by the bureaucrats), my vote will be to stay out.
Not interested - the only reason that we've had over a decade of financial stability in the UK is the fact we control our own market. The MPC has done a damn'd fine job of regulating the economy (one one letter to the Governor in that time).
OK, so the EU has not done too badly over the past two years but they went through some rocky times before that and the ECB took a long time to get up to speed - mostly by learning from the example of the MPC
The main problem is that each of the countries in Euroland has its own fiscal and foreign policies which means that their economies are all pulling in different directions. The tools available to the ECB / MPC are crude at the best of times and cannot cope without the co-operation of the Exchequer and a central direction for the economy, so, until we enter the United States of Europe (which I hope never to see whilst Brussels is ruled by the bureaucrats), my vote will be to stay out.
Time for Britain to reconsider the Euro?
Bryn Mawr;730228 wrote: Not interested - the only reason that we've had over a decade of financial stability in the UK is the fact we control our own market. The MPC has done a damn'd fine job of regulating the economy (one one letter to the Governor in that time).
OK, so the EU has not done too badly over the past two years but they went through some rocky times before that and the ECB took a long time to get up to speed - mostly by learning from the example of the MPC
The main problem is that each of the countries in Euroland has its own fiscal and foreign policies which means that their economies are all pulling in different directions. The tools available to the ECB / MPC are crude at the best of times and cannot cope without the co-operation of the Exchequer and a central direction for the economy, so, until we enter the United States of Europe (which I hope never to see whilst Brussels is ruled by the bureaucrats), my vote will be to stay out.
well said i wish i could have put it like that:)
OK, so the EU has not done too badly over the past two years but they went through some rocky times before that and the ECB took a long time to get up to speed - mostly by learning from the example of the MPC
The main problem is that each of the countries in Euroland has its own fiscal and foreign policies which means that their economies are all pulling in different directions. The tools available to the ECB / MPC are crude at the best of times and cannot cope without the co-operation of the Exchequer and a central direction for the economy, so, until we enter the United States of Europe (which I hope never to see whilst Brussels is ruled by the bureaucrats), my vote will be to stay out.
well said i wish i could have put it like that:)
"To be foolish and to recognize that one is foolish, is better than to be foolish and imagine that one is wise."
Time for Britain to reconsider the Euro?
Oh, and the other reason is that it would be a complete nightmare from a systems point of view. When there was a serious possibility of it happening a few years back they were talking in terms of nine to twelve months from the decision to the execution - it would take at least two years to rewrite our systems to cope with multiple domestic currencies.
Never let it be said that I'm not selfish when it matters :wah:
Never let it be said that I'm not selfish when it matters :wah:
Time for Britain to reconsider the Euro?
Computer says NO! :wah:
Time for Britain to reconsider the Euro?
I'd go with the euro if only I didn't think the government would use it as a way to tax us even more
Time for Britain to reconsider the Euro?
Bryn Mawr;730228 wrote: Not interested - the only reason that we've had over a decade of financial stability in the UK is the fact we control our own market. The MPC has done a damn'd fine job of regulating the economy (one one letter to the Governor in that time).
OK, so the EU has not done too badly over the past two years but they went through some rocky times before that and the ECB took a long time to get up to speed - mostly by learning from the example of the MPC
The main problem is that each of the countries in Euroland has its own fiscal and foreign policies which means that their economies are all pulling in different directions. The tools available to the ECB / MPC are crude at the best of times and cannot cope without the co-operation of the Exchequer and a central direction for the economy, so, until we enter the United States of Europe (which I hope never to see whilst Brussels is ruled by the bureaucrats), my vote will be to stay out.
I am not going to argue the point that the MPC has done a good job since it gained independence from the UK Gov, it has, but I am not sure about your analysis of how the ECB has done its job over the past 5 years. I think as well with the Eurozone economy you are missing the wood for the tree. The whole point of the single currency area is facilitate the convergence of the European economy as an entity, and so yes of course the major countries do have different business cycles and requirements, there has been a large convergence between the major Eurozone economies over the past 5 years, precisely because they have one central bank, one currency and one set of interest rates. Like the Dollar, the strength of the Euro is based partly on good fiscal management and partly on simple economy of scale.
Though I think that Britain can remain out of the Euro and still be a full EU member and continue to perform well economically as Sterling is a strong currency and should remain like that as long as the MPC and the Government don't make a complete dog's dinner of the economy.
OK, so the EU has not done too badly over the past two years but they went through some rocky times before that and the ECB took a long time to get up to speed - mostly by learning from the example of the MPC
The main problem is that each of the countries in Euroland has its own fiscal and foreign policies which means that their economies are all pulling in different directions. The tools available to the ECB / MPC are crude at the best of times and cannot cope without the co-operation of the Exchequer and a central direction for the economy, so, until we enter the United States of Europe (which I hope never to see whilst Brussels is ruled by the bureaucrats), my vote will be to stay out.
I am not going to argue the point that the MPC has done a good job since it gained independence from the UK Gov, it has, but I am not sure about your analysis of how the ECB has done its job over the past 5 years. I think as well with the Eurozone economy you are missing the wood for the tree. The whole point of the single currency area is facilitate the convergence of the European economy as an entity, and so yes of course the major countries do have different business cycles and requirements, there has been a large convergence between the major Eurozone economies over the past 5 years, precisely because they have one central bank, one currency and one set of interest rates. Like the Dollar, the strength of the Euro is based partly on good fiscal management and partly on simple economy of scale.
Though I think that Britain can remain out of the Euro and still be a full EU member and continue to perform well economically as Sterling is a strong currency and should remain like that as long as the MPC and the Government don't make a complete dog's dinner of the economy.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Time for Britain to reconsider the Euro?
The single currency has become so convenient (particularly when you travel a fair amount) that it is a frustration the UK not being on the Euro. When I am in England, or even at the Heathrow, I never buy anything because it is too much hassle dealing with another currency.
Time for Britain to reconsider the Euro?
Of course it isn't
Time for Britain to reconsider the Euro?
Chezzie;730297 wrote: Computer says NO! :wah:
We had enough fun and games with Eire joining - don't want to go through that again
Ah well - it keeps me in work
We had enough fun and games with Eire joining - don't want to go through that again
Ah well - it keeps me in work
Time for Britain to reconsider the Euro?
Galbally;730545 wrote: I am not going to argue the point that the MPC has done a good job since it gained independence from the UK Gov, it has, but I am not sure about your analysis of how the ECB has done its job over the past 5 years. I think as well with the Eurozone economy you are missing the wood for the tree. The whole point of the single currency area is facilitate the convergence of the European economy as an entity, and so yes of course the major countries do have different business cycles and requirements, there has been a large convergence between the major Eurozone economies over the past 5 years, precisely because they have one central bank, one currency and one set of interest rates. Like the Dollar, the strength of the Euro is based partly on good fiscal management and partly on simple economy of scale.
Though I think that Britain can remain out of the Euro and still be a full EU member and continue to perform well economically as Sterling is a strong currency and should remain like that as long as the MPC and the Government don't make a complete dog's dinner of the economy.
There has been a convergence (the EU economies could hardly have diverged from where they were) but I cannot see the gap closing much further whilst the member states run such different markets. Even the ECB is a series of major compromises dependant on the political agenda of the representatives home government.
I'd happily give the MPC far wider powers over our economy to stop the government playing politics around election time but not to the ECB which is all about playing politics.
A lot of the EU's economy of scale lies not just in the Euro but in acting as a single bloc in trading negotiations (GATT etc) with a single trade boundary.
Though I think that Britain can remain out of the Euro and still be a full EU member and continue to perform well economically as Sterling is a strong currency and should remain like that as long as the MPC and the Government don't make a complete dog's dinner of the economy.
There has been a convergence (the EU economies could hardly have diverged from where they were) but I cannot see the gap closing much further whilst the member states run such different markets. Even the ECB is a series of major compromises dependant on the political agenda of the representatives home government.
I'd happily give the MPC far wider powers over our economy to stop the government playing politics around election time but not to the ECB which is all about playing politics.
A lot of the EU's economy of scale lies not just in the Euro but in acting as a single bloc in trading negotiations (GATT etc) with a single trade boundary.
Time for Britain to reconsider the Euro?
Bryn Mawr;731482 wrote: There has been a convergence (the EU economies could hardly have diverged from where they were) but I cannot see the gap closing much further whilst the member states run such different markets. Even the ECB is a series of major compromises dependant on the political agenda of the representatives home government.
I'd happily give the MPC far wider powers over our economy to stop the government playing politics around election time but not to the ECB which is all about playing politics.
A lot of the EU's economy of scale lies not just in the Euro but in acting as a single bloc in trading negotiations (GATT etc) with a single trade boundary.
I think all of that is valid, but you could say exactly the same thing about the UK and its single currency, but no one would question that the single UK currency is not a good idea. Though I suppose if Salmond does get his way and the Scots vote for indepedence you can expect them to join the Euro as well as they probably won't want to stay in the Sterling zone for political reasons, though maybe they will. I think essentially its completely true to say that there is a political dimension to any currency Union, and basically Britain, or more specifically England is just not politically interested in any further integration with the rest of the EU, thats a valid position, but I don't think in the long term that just trying to keep everything in aspic is going to work, so at some point there will be a decision that will have to be made in London to either have a change of heart about the EU or disengage from the whole project. It would be a pity if that were to happen, but there is no point trying to make the people of country enthusiastic about something they just are not interested in.
I'd happily give the MPC far wider powers over our economy to stop the government playing politics around election time but not to the ECB which is all about playing politics.
A lot of the EU's economy of scale lies not just in the Euro but in acting as a single bloc in trading negotiations (GATT etc) with a single trade boundary.
I think all of that is valid, but you could say exactly the same thing about the UK and its single currency, but no one would question that the single UK currency is not a good idea. Though I suppose if Salmond does get his way and the Scots vote for indepedence you can expect them to join the Euro as well as they probably won't want to stay in the Sterling zone for political reasons, though maybe they will. I think essentially its completely true to say that there is a political dimension to any currency Union, and basically Britain, or more specifically England is just not politically interested in any further integration with the rest of the EU, thats a valid position, but I don't think in the long term that just trying to keep everything in aspic is going to work, so at some point there will be a decision that will have to be made in London to either have a change of heart about the EU or disengage from the whole project. It would be a pity if that were to happen, but there is no point trying to make the people of country enthusiastic about something they just are not interested in.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Time for Britain to reconsider the Euro?
Galbally;731505 wrote: I think all of that is valid, but you could say exactly the same thing about the UK and its single currency, but no one would question that the single UK currency is not a good idea. Though I suppose if Salmond does get his way and the Scots vote for indepedence you can expect them to join the Euro as well as they probably won't want to stay in the Sterling zone for political reasons, though maybe they will. I think essentially its completely true to say that there is a political dimension to any currency Union, and basically Britain, or more specifically England is just not politically interested in any further integration with the rest of the EU, thats a valid position, but I don't think in the long term that just trying to keep everything in aspic is going to work, so at some point there will be a decision that will have to be made in London to either have a change of heart about the EU or disengage from the whole project. It would be a pity if that were to happen, but there is no point trying to make the people of country enthusiastic about something they just are not interested in.
There's no doubt that it ill come eventually (assuming that we stay in Europe) but I am a dyed in the wool Luddite who hates change and will always come up with a reason why we shouldn't :wah:
I truly believe that we are better off out of it whilst the EU is run by the bureaucrats. When the MEPs govern the EU as a democratic body then bring on the USoE and we can start to downgrade the current national Parliaments to regional assemblies.
There's no doubt that it ill come eventually (assuming that we stay in Europe) but I am a dyed in the wool Luddite who hates change and will always come up with a reason why we shouldn't :wah:
I truly believe that we are better off out of it whilst the EU is run by the bureaucrats. When the MEPs govern the EU as a democratic body then bring on the USoE and we can start to downgrade the current national Parliaments to regional assemblies.
Time for Britain to reconsider the Euro?
Bryn Mawr;731526 wrote: There's no doubt that it ill come eventually (assuming that we stay in Europe) but I am a dyed in the wool Luddite who hates change and will always come up with a reason why we shouldn't :wah:
I truly believe that we are better off out of it whilst the EU is run by the bureaucrats. When the MEPs govern the EU as a democratic body then bring on the USoE and we can start to downgrade the current national Parliaments to regional assemblies.
The luddites were wrong. There is much i don't like about europe just as there is much benefit we have gained from it. I can't see any other nation subsuming their national identity to a wider europe. The french and germans are every bit as proud of their republics as we are of ours parliamentary system-same for all the rest. The bulk of our trade is with europe, much of the external investment over the last decades is due to our membership of the EU. I do find much of the anti european ukip type arguements remarkably negative. Also anti-capitalist as well which is a bit ironic. . It's not as though they come up with a viable alternative. We'll be OK people will trade with us because we're British is a load of bollocks-just look at the sanctions the US imposed on British industry albeit as part of a spat with the EU, but there is no sentiment when ot comes to trade.
I think all of that is valid, but you could say exactly the same thing about the UK and its single currency, but no one would question that the single UK currency is not a good idea. Though I suppose if Salmond does get his way and the Scots vote for indepedence you can expect them to join the Euro as well as they probably won't want to stay in the Sterling zone for political reasons, though maybe they will. I think essentially its completely true to say that there is a political dimension to any currency Union, and basically Britain, or more specifically England is just not politically interested in any further integration with the rest of the EU, thats a valid position, but I don't think in the long term that just trying to keep everything in aspic is going to work, so at some point there will be a decision that will have to be made in London to either have a change of heart about the EU or disengage from the whole project. It would be a pity if that were to happen, but there is no point trying to make the people of country enthusiastic about something they just are not interested in.
Be interesting to see what happens with alec salmond. Much of the support it is because we got pissed of being ruled from london with having no real say in what was imposed on us.
I truly believe that we are better off out of it whilst the EU is run by the bureaucrats. When the MEPs govern the EU as a democratic body then bring on the USoE and we can start to downgrade the current national Parliaments to regional assemblies.
The luddites were wrong. There is much i don't like about europe just as there is much benefit we have gained from it. I can't see any other nation subsuming their national identity to a wider europe. The french and germans are every bit as proud of their republics as we are of ours parliamentary system-same for all the rest. The bulk of our trade is with europe, much of the external investment over the last decades is due to our membership of the EU. I do find much of the anti european ukip type arguements remarkably negative. Also anti-capitalist as well which is a bit ironic. . It's not as though they come up with a viable alternative. We'll be OK people will trade with us because we're British is a load of bollocks-just look at the sanctions the US imposed on British industry albeit as part of a spat with the EU, but there is no sentiment when ot comes to trade.
I think all of that is valid, but you could say exactly the same thing about the UK and its single currency, but no one would question that the single UK currency is not a good idea. Though I suppose if Salmond does get his way and the Scots vote for indepedence you can expect them to join the Euro as well as they probably won't want to stay in the Sterling zone for political reasons, though maybe they will. I think essentially its completely true to say that there is a political dimension to any currency Union, and basically Britain, or more specifically England is just not politically interested in any further integration with the rest of the EU, thats a valid position, but I don't think in the long term that just trying to keep everything in aspic is going to work, so at some point there will be a decision that will have to be made in London to either have a change of heart about the EU or disengage from the whole project. It would be a pity if that were to happen, but there is no point trying to make the people of country enthusiastic about something they just are not interested in.
Be interesting to see what happens with alec salmond. Much of the support it is because we got pissed of being ruled from london with having no real say in what was imposed on us.
Time for Britain to reconsider the Euro?
I know what you mean GMC, this thread was really on a kinda specific point about whether the recent events in currency markets and banking make the Euro more attractive as an idea, but of course it just gets generalized into this whole anti-EU thing. I don't really understand the sort of more reactionary anti-EU stuff coming from Britain, a lot of it based on the misinfotrmation spouted by a very, very partisan press over there, lots of scare stories and this whole EU is a big wasteful beauracracy thing. When in fact as beauracracies go, the EU commission is actually not that bad at all, and is much smaller than most of the large UK Gov Departments at present. I guess its basically more to do with British national identity and this age old argument about what Britain's role in the world/Europe is, thats completely understandable given history and politics in the UK, but I think that the knee-jerk anti-EU sentiment that has been allowed to just build up and go unchecked in Britain is pretty self-defeating for Britain's national interests to be honest, but at the same time people in the UK are entitled to make up their own minds about what way they want to go, thats not up to me or anyone else outside Britain to do.
There are certainly things about the EU that are less than ideal, and I guess a lot of that is based on the fact that the EU is not a government and can't take on the powers of a governemnt, because it just doesn't have enough legitimacy with people across the continent, and understandably national governemnts don't want to make themselves irrelevant by creating a democratically elected EU legislature and executive. Also whether actually having a Federal EU state would be the best thing for all European countries and their people is not actually a case thats been proven IMO. So I am not sure that Bryns idea of having an EU parliament with real power is something that is going to be accepted for the next few decades.
I think that at present the thing that the EU commission shoud be doing is to ensure that the single market works effectively, to increase the competetiveness of European business generally, make sure that Europe has a strong voice in trade negotiations with China and the US etc, help to continue the development of ex-soviet countries, and also push for better environmental practices across the continent. And do these things in a manner that benefits all the EU countries whether or not they are in the Eurozone, and Britain is not the only country that isn't in it. They seem on those issues to be doing a decent job, and as long as they stay focused on that people wont be too unhappy with things.
There are certainly things about the EU that are less than ideal, and I guess a lot of that is based on the fact that the EU is not a government and can't take on the powers of a governemnt, because it just doesn't have enough legitimacy with people across the continent, and understandably national governemnts don't want to make themselves irrelevant by creating a democratically elected EU legislature and executive. Also whether actually having a Federal EU state would be the best thing for all European countries and their people is not actually a case thats been proven IMO. So I am not sure that Bryns idea of having an EU parliament with real power is something that is going to be accepted for the next few decades.
I think that at present the thing that the EU commission shoud be doing is to ensure that the single market works effectively, to increase the competetiveness of European business generally, make sure that Europe has a strong voice in trade negotiations with China and the US etc, help to continue the development of ex-soviet countries, and also push for better environmental practices across the continent. And do these things in a manner that benefits all the EU countries whether or not they are in the Eurozone, and Britain is not the only country that isn't in it. They seem on those issues to be doing a decent job, and as long as they stay focused on that people wont be too unhappy with things.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Time for Britain to reconsider the Euro?
gmc;731749 wrote: The luddites were wrong. There is much i don't like about europe just as there is much benefit we have gained from it. I can't see any other nation subsuming their national identity to a wider europe. The french and germans are every bit as proud of their republics as we are of ours parliamentary system-same for all the rest. The bulk of our trade is with europe, much of the external investment over the last decades is due to our membership of the EU. I do find much of the anti european ukip type arguements remarkably negative. Also anti-capitalist as well which is a bit ironic. . It's not as though they come up with a viable alternative. We'll be OK people will trade with us because we're British is a load of bollocks-just look at the sanctions the US imposed on British industry albeit as part of a spat with the EU, but there is no sentiment when ot comes to trade.
Be interesting to see what happens with alec salmond. Much of the support it is because we got pissed of being ruled from london with having no real say in what was imposed on us.
Well I guess that the difference between the EU and the UK is that essentially the UK is dominated politcally and economically by England as its much larger than Scotland, Wales, and N. Ireland put together, while the EU is not dominated by any one country as there are too many states involved of equal size (relative to each other) that they balance them out. Therefore the big 4 of Germany, Britain, France, and Italy, counterbalance each other and also are counterbalanced by the smaller countries when you put some together.
Also of course the UK is (or was anyway) a unitary political state governed from Westminister, while the EU is not even a state, and probably all it could ever be would be a confederation of some kind as I don't think having a truly federal Europe is possible and it wouldn't be very stable anyway. The way I see it is that in the future the EU will develop into some form of confederation (its hard to know how it will eventually be structured as its a political idea that is without many precedents), that will deal on a continent-wide basis with the big geopolitcial issues and the macro-economic ones, while sovereignty will remain with the nation states, and most of the day to day affairs will remain the preserve of national governments.
Be interesting to see what happens with alec salmond. Much of the support it is because we got pissed of being ruled from london with having no real say in what was imposed on us.
Well I guess that the difference between the EU and the UK is that essentially the UK is dominated politcally and economically by England as its much larger than Scotland, Wales, and N. Ireland put together, while the EU is not dominated by any one country as there are too many states involved of equal size (relative to each other) that they balance them out. Therefore the big 4 of Germany, Britain, France, and Italy, counterbalance each other and also are counterbalanced by the smaller countries when you put some together.
Also of course the UK is (or was anyway) a unitary political state governed from Westminister, while the EU is not even a state, and probably all it could ever be would be a confederation of some kind as I don't think having a truly federal Europe is possible and it wouldn't be very stable anyway. The way I see it is that in the future the EU will develop into some form of confederation (its hard to know how it will eventually be structured as its a political idea that is without many precedents), that will deal on a continent-wide basis with the big geopolitcial issues and the macro-economic ones, while sovereignty will remain with the nation states, and most of the day to day affairs will remain the preserve of national governments.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Time for Britain to reconsider the Euro?
posted by galbally
I know what you mean GMC, this thread was really on a kinda specific point about whether the recent events in currency markets and banking make the Euro more attractive as an idea, but of course it just gets generalized into this whole anti-EU thing. I don't really understand the sort of more reactionary anti-EU stuff coming from Britain, a lot of it based on the misinformation spouted by a very, very partisan press over there, lots of scare stories and this whole EU is a big wasteful beauracracy thing. When in fact as beauracracies go, the EU commission is actually not that bad at all, and is much smaller than most of the large UK Gov Departments at present. I guess its basically more to do with British national identity and this age old argument about what Britain's role in the world/Europe is, thats completely understandable given history and politics in the UK, but I think that the knee-jerk anti-EU sentiment that has been allowed to just build up and go unchecked in Britain is pretty self-defeating for Britain's national interests to be honest, but at the same time people in the UK are entitled to make up their own minds about what way they want to go, thats not up to me or anyone else outside Britain to do.
Especially any press owned by rupert murdoch. Scotland has actually done very well out of eu membership. I live in what was one of the regional development areas most of the industrial estates and a large chunk of the infrastructure are EU funded. I find most of the anti eu is knee jerk reaction and when challenged even the most anti european doesn't have an informed opinion. The classic was a member of ukip trying to convince me that less than 15% of our trade is with europe. Have to admire him though they're like tories up here-often talked about but seldom seen. We have good fun arguing when we meet.
Many businesses do trade in europe and you only have to count the foreign lorries rolling off the ferry (rosyth) and the Scottish ones going on to get the point and it's increasing. Even more people go abroad every year and are not as xenophobic as the press would lead you to believe. looks like the US dollar is going down the toilet along with it's economy.
I don't think you can lay the UK doing well all at Gordon brown's door. He's also caused a lot of damage to financial services in this country-bear in mind that is our biggest single export. There's always the possibility that London will be superseded as the main financial centre-just cos we started it all in the dim and distant past. If an american company gets control of the london stock exchange then I think anti american sentiment in europe will kick in more strongly.
I know what you mean GMC, this thread was really on a kinda specific point about whether the recent events in currency markets and banking make the Euro more attractive as an idea, but of course it just gets generalized into this whole anti-EU thing. I don't really understand the sort of more reactionary anti-EU stuff coming from Britain, a lot of it based on the misinformation spouted by a very, very partisan press over there, lots of scare stories and this whole EU is a big wasteful beauracracy thing. When in fact as beauracracies go, the EU commission is actually not that bad at all, and is much smaller than most of the large UK Gov Departments at present. I guess its basically more to do with British national identity and this age old argument about what Britain's role in the world/Europe is, thats completely understandable given history and politics in the UK, but I think that the knee-jerk anti-EU sentiment that has been allowed to just build up and go unchecked in Britain is pretty self-defeating for Britain's national interests to be honest, but at the same time people in the UK are entitled to make up their own minds about what way they want to go, thats not up to me or anyone else outside Britain to do.
Especially any press owned by rupert murdoch. Scotland has actually done very well out of eu membership. I live in what was one of the regional development areas most of the industrial estates and a large chunk of the infrastructure are EU funded. I find most of the anti eu is knee jerk reaction and when challenged even the most anti european doesn't have an informed opinion. The classic was a member of ukip trying to convince me that less than 15% of our trade is with europe. Have to admire him though they're like tories up here-often talked about but seldom seen. We have good fun arguing when we meet.
Many businesses do trade in europe and you only have to count the foreign lorries rolling off the ferry (rosyth) and the Scottish ones going on to get the point and it's increasing. Even more people go abroad every year and are not as xenophobic as the press would lead you to believe. looks like the US dollar is going down the toilet along with it's economy.
I don't think you can lay the UK doing well all at Gordon brown's door. He's also caused a lot of damage to financial services in this country-bear in mind that is our biggest single export. There's always the possibility that London will be superseded as the main financial centre-just cos we started it all in the dim and distant past. If an american company gets control of the london stock exchange then I think anti american sentiment in europe will kick in more strongly.