i am going to say something controversial

lemon_and_mint · Post by **lemon_and_mint** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:13 pm

I do not want to have children, i never wanted to have children, i want them to keep away from me.

Does this make me a horrible person?

Apparently it does.

I love animals.

theia · Post by **theia** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:14 pm

lemon_and_mint;747846 wrote: I do not want to have children, i never wanted to have children, i want them to keep away from me.

Does this make me a horrible person?

Apparently it does.

I love animals.

What makes you think that, Lemon?

lemon_and_mint · Post by **lemon_and_mint** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:15 pm

theia;747849 wrote: What makes you think that, Lemon?

other peoples reactions.

Snooze · Post by **Snooze** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:16 pm

lemon_and_mint;747846 wrote: I do not want to have children, i never wanted to have children, i want them to keep away from me.

Does this make me a horrible person?

Apparently it does.

I love animals.

If it does, then I'm a terrible person too.

JacksDad · Post by **JacksDad** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:16 pm

lemon_and_mint;747846 wrote: I do not want to have children, i never wanted to have children, i want them to keep away from me.

Does this make me a horrible person?

Apparently it does.

I love animals.

Same here.

The we had a son.

Funny how things change.

:-6

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:16 pm

You need to ignore the other people's reactions.

lemon_and_mint · Post by **lemon_and_mint** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:18 pm

chonsigirl;747854 wrote: You need to ignore the other people's reactions.

i do, chonsi, i just wondered what this board thought.

I am apparently selfish for not having one, or immature.

Snooze · Post by **Snooze** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:19 pm

lemon_and_mint;747850 wrote: other peoples reactions.

Screw other people's reactions. YOU know what you want and don't want. I think it's better to be childless than to have children you (you in general, not you in particular) didn't want and be indifferent or worse to them.

I feel some people aren't meant to have children, for whatever reason, and they shouldn't be shamed by others for being out of the 'norm'. Who exactly determines the norm anyway?

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:21 pm

I get that crap all the time but I don't accept it.

I just don't want kids. Have my reasons. But I have heard that selfish bit before and I have to say having a kid is one of the most selfish things ever if you're going to get right down to it. But to call someone selfish for choosing not to propagate is nasty, ignorant and wrong.

The world has plenty of kids, not everyone needs to crank one out.

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:22 pm

lemon_and_mint;747856 wrote: i do, chonsi, i just wondered what this board thought.

I am apparently selfish for not having one, or immature.

You are not selfish, or immature. It is very mature if you decide not to have children, that is an adult decision.

Snooze has a good point-who decides the norm? I had 4 kids, that was not the norm, I jus ignored whatever people had to say.

(and they better give me grandkids one day! :wah:)

Nah, only if they want to.......

lemon_and_mint · Post by **lemon_and_mint** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:22 pm

maybe we are all mature adults here, i was wondering whether or not to post that.

But seriously when asked if i have children and i say no (at my age) i get responses like, well don't worry, there's time yet, if i then say actually i don't want any, i receive the look - the look is where someone wears an expression which would not be out of place if i pulled my face off to reveal that i was really a green alien.

lemon_and_mint · Post by **lemon_and_mint** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:24 pm

RedGlitter;747858 wrote: I get that crap all the time but I don't accept it.

I just don't want kids. Have my reasons. But I have heard that selfish bit before and I have to say having a kid is one of the most selfish things ever if you're going to get right down to it. But to call someone selfish for choosing not to propagate is nasty, ignorant and wrong.

The world has plenty of kids, not everyone needs to crank one out.

Red, are you my long lost twin sister??? shocked smiley.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:27 pm

lemon_and_mint;747860 wrote: maybe we are all mature adults here, i was wondering whether or not to post that.

But seriously when asked if i have children and i say no (at my age) i get responses like, well don't worry, there's time yet, if i then say actually i don't want any, i receive the look - the look is where someone wears an expression which would not be out of place if i pulled my face off to reveal that i was really a green alien.

:wah:

I would say to that comment "My, aren't we presumptuous."

People are rude and assumptive when it comes to getting involved in other people's sex and parenting lives. Sometimes I think some of those "well meaning" remarks come from parents who want us to be as miserable as they are. When I'm in the store and I see parents smacking their kids and yelling/cussing at them or they give me that look and say trash like "don't ever have kids" because they can't control theirs, it p.isses me off. Have the kids if you love them but don't have them because you think you're supposed to.

Chezzie · Post by **Chezzie** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:27 pm

I find it more selfish of people having kids they dont want and dont care for them.

I dont have an opinion on people who choose not to have children other than thats thier choice. You only live once so live it how you see fit.

Although I dont practice what I preach id say ignore bigotted comments from ill minded people and enjoy your life...Im terrible for worrying of what others think of me.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:28 pm

lemon_and_mint;747862 wrote: Red, are you my long lost twin sister??? shocked smiley.

Well I'd rather have pets than kids any day so could be.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:29 pm

This is your life.

lemon_and_mint · Post by **lemon_and_mint** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:29 pm

exactly what i feel.

I know i would not have the patience, or the ability to cope.I would rather admit that than have one and then not look after it properly.

And then people say, well its different when its your own, but WHAT IF IT ISN'T?(for me anyway, this may be true of other people)

Wolverine · Post by **Wolverine** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:31 pm

not wanting kids doesn't make you a bad person. i don't want kids either. i love kids tho, don't get me wrong. and the ONLY thing that i am 100% sure of is that i would be a GREAT dad. it's just i love "other" peoples' kids. cuz THEY eventually go home.

so Lemon, not wanting don't make you bad. you just smell funny.

lemon_and_mint · Post by **lemon_and_mint** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:31 pm

the funny thing is people always act like its strange i dont want kids, i dont act like its strange if they dont want icecream.

and then i dont say, well you might feel differently about your own icecream.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:32 pm

lemon_and_mint;747868 wrote: exactly what i feel.

I know i would not have the patience, or the ability to cope.I would rather admit that than have one and then not look after it properly.

And then people say, well its different when its your own, but WHAT IF IT ISN'T?(for me anyway, this may be true of other people)

I agree completely. I think knowing when kids are not for you is one of the most unselfish things ever. And apparently it's not always different when it's yours or I wouldn't see these wretched louts abusing their children like I do.

lemon_and_mint · Post by **lemon_and_mint** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:32 pm

Wolverine;747869 wrote: not wanting kids doesn't make you a bad person. i don't want kids either. i love kids tho, don't get me wrong. and the ONLY thing that i am 100% sure of is that i would be a GREAT dad. it's just i love "other" peoples' kids. cuz THEY eventually go home.

so Lemon, not wanting don't make you bad. you just smell funny.

oh, i dont still smell?I've had two baths today........getting paranoid.

Snooze · Post by **Snooze** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:35 pm

When I was 25, an older female co-worker told me I better have children soon because my eggs were getting old.

O.... kay.

lemon_and_mint · Post by **lemon_and_mint** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:37 pm

it just seems to be seen as if it goes against nature in some way.

Its as if free choice doesnt come into it.

Funnily enough my mother said she only had children because it was the done thing (we were looked after, dont worry) but how sad if she really didn't want to have us.

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:44 pm

I applaude you for knowing what you want. As Nomie said it is your life, your choices. Like other have said I find it worse for people to have Children when they clearly didn't want them.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:46 pm

lemon_and_mint;747871 wrote: the funny thing is people always act like its strange i dont want kids, i dont act like its strange if they dont want icecream.

and then i dont say, well you might feel differently about your own icecream.

The replies might be biology reacting. They have an inert desire to breed and naturally to them so must you.

Dont question yourself.

Rather question their lack of an overall evolutionary human understanding.

Some people are simply incapable of thinking outside the box or of recognizing that other realities exist besides their own.

Try to not take that personally. Some just lack vision and a broader ability to comprehend.

Others still might just be mentally immature.

lemon_and_mint · Post by **lemon_and_mint** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:47 pm

CARLA;747894 wrote: I applaude you for knowing what you want. As Nomie said it is your life, your choices. Like other have said I find it worse for people to have Children when they clearly didn't want them.

Luckily, I am, if I say it myself, a fairly strongminded woman, I form my own thoughts about things and rarely follow the crowd just for the sake of it.

But I see the sorts of relationships between parents and children that red talks about and i wonder how that happend, why have those children?Why have more than one if you are having trouble coping with one?Were they talked into it in the same way that people try to talk me into it (and i am not imaging that , people do try to talk me into it)

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:49 pm

Snooze;747878 wrote: When I was 25, an older female co-worker told me I better have children soon because my eggs were getting old.

O.... kay.

So your eggs are less than fresh ?

lemon_and_mint · Post by **lemon_and_mint** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:50 pm

and thats the other thing, i have never felt that biological clock ticking, never ever.And its somewhat too late for me now (in terms of norms of nature, not ivf and elderly mothers etc)

Thats not to say i havent seen a small kid doing something cute and said aahh because i have, but in general i don't want to see small children for large amounts of time.

Snooze · Post by **Snooze** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:59 pm

Nomad;747899 wrote: So your eggs are less than fresh ?

If they were getting old 24 years ago, I hate to think what they're like now.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 5:05 pm

Snooze;747912 wrote: If they were getting old 24 years ago, I hate to think what they're like now.

One can only imagine.

And I think I will.

LilacDragon · Post by **LilacDragon** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 5:10 pm

Of course you are not selfish for not wanting to have children. Hell, some days I don't want to have children!

As for having children being a selfish act - I don't think so. I don't have time to do the things that I would love to do, I haven't bought a thing for myself that cost more then $25 in years, and any snack that I truly love (except fruitcake) is usually gone long before I get a taste.

Having said that - I do love my children and wouldn't change a thing about them.

Peg · Post by **Peg** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 5:12 pm

I know quite a few people that I wish had chosen not to have children.

If a person does not want children, that is THEIR choice. I'd much rather see a person choose not to have children, than to see an unwanted, unloved child.

lemon_and_mint · Post by **lemon_and_mint** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 5:14 pm

LilacDragon;747929 wrote: Of course you are not selfish for not wanting to have children. Hell, some days I don't want to have children!

As for having children being a selfish act - I don't think so. I don't have time to do the things that I would love to do, I haven't bought a thing for myself that cost more then $25 in years, and any snack that I truly love (except fruitcake) is usually gone long before I get a taste.

Having said that - I do love my children and wouldn't change a thing about them.

I'm sure you love your children and i have no problem with other poeple having children if they look after them, and i can see how you can make sacrifices of things for your children because i would have gone hungry myself to feed my cats if it came to it.

Its just that our society seems so child orientated as well.

Chezzie · Post by **Chezzie** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 5:22 pm

well lets be honest if society wasnt child orientated we wouldnt have a society. Some folk hopefully still want to have kids so that keeps reproduction going lol......

along-for-the-ride · Post by **along-for-the-ride** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 5:58 pm

lemon_and_mint;747846 wrote: I do not want to have children, i never wanted to have children, i want them to keep away from me.

Does this make me a horrible person?

Apparently it does.

I love animals.

No, that does not make you a horrible person. In this day and age, you do have a choice. A woman does not necesarily have to get married and have children to be "complete"...whatever that is.

PS. This is a more common feeling among women than you may think.

Kathy Ellen · Post by **Kathy Ellen** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 6:35 pm

Hi Lemon, No, there is nothing wrong with not wanting children. I love and adore children, but do not want to have my own. I teach little ones all day and practically raised some of my nieces and nephews, but at the end of the day, I'm happy to turn them over to mom and dad.

Then again, I admit that I am extremely selfish with my time and just don't feel that I'd make a good mom only because of my selfishness. Geeze, I'm even in a dither as to whether I should adopt a kitten this summer...oy vey:-5 Thanks to Jack's Dad, now I want the little grayish black kitten that fixes the computer....I'll have to look for his pic. Thanks JD, I've even named him "Midnight."

Kathy Ellen · Post by **Kathy Ellen** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 6:55 pm

Here's the kitten....

minks · Post by **minks** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 7:50 pm

what odd reactions from the people you have encountered who call you selfish for not having kids. Gosh I like snakes but don't really want to have one, does that make me a bad person.

Geeze I know many great people who are childless by choice so be it. Gosh but then again I was told once I was selfish for not trying to have a boy after 2 girls and getting the "preventative operation" Hmmm this from the doctor who performed "the" operation.

Meh be proud of your choice.

AussiePam · Post by **AussiePam** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:08 pm

I don't understand why you should feel you need to be on the defensive, LemonandMint. And why RedGlitter should also feel the need to claim people who do want kids are selfish. These are personal issues, and nobody else's business. We all have our own views on personal relations and families, on our religion or lack of it, on our politics or lack of it etc etc. You make the decisions for yourself. Others should respect your rights to do this and stay out of your personal affairs. :-6

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:36 pm

Lemon & M

I had a tubaligation at the age of 25 - no hesitation really

I remember the reactions from people when I decided to never have kids.

Seems to me - it was all the relatives who reacted negatively - My Mother especially..

So - you must be fairly young - if 25 yrs old again, would I do the same ? Yes

I knew I wanted & needed more out of Life - coming from a large Family, I felt I already raised a Family

Enjoy decisions, and move on.

Patsy

WonderWendy3 · Post by **WonderWendy3** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:46 pm

Patsy Warnick;748091 wrote: Lemon & M

I had a tubaligation at the age of 25 - no hesitation really

I remember the reactions from people when I decided to never have kids.

Seems to me - it was all the relatives who reacted negatively - My Mother especially..

So - you must be fairly young - if 25 yrs old again, would I do the same ? Yes

I knew I wanted & needed more out of Life - coming from a large Family, I felt I already raised a Family

Enjoy decisions, and move on.

Patsy

I was going to post about a sweet friend of mine that had the tubaligation at the age 24 or 25, she knew then that she didn't want children either. Unfortunately later in life she met the man of her dreams (hubby #5) that really wanted Children, and it hurt her that she couldn't give them to him, later in life she wanted children with him and him only. But, she they have accepted the fact that she can't have their babies and have been happily married for about 15 years now....

I agree with Patsy, Enjoy decisions and move on.....:-4

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:06 pm

AussiePam;748048 wrote: I don't understand why you should feel you need to be on the defensive, LemonandMint. And why RedGlitter should also feel the need to claim people who do want kids are selfish. These are personal issues, and nobody else's business. We all have our own views on personal relations and families, on our religion or lack of it, on our politics or lack of it etc etc. You make the decisions for yourself. Others should respect your rights to do this and stay out of your personal affairs. :-6

Don't take me out of context Pam.

I said that because I think there is some conceit in wanting to see what kind of offspring one can produce. Not that people who have kids are selfish. The concept of having them can be. Thank you.

moonpie · Post by **moonpie** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:10 pm

lemon_and_mint;747846 wrote: I do not want to have children, i never wanted to have children, i want them to keep away from me.

Does this make me a horrible person?

Apparently it does.

I love animals.

I don't think that was such a bad statement. I did want to have children at one time, now I am glad I didn't. I like my little Step-grand kids, but am glad they are just that, and have never been asked once to baby sit them. I love animals too. I would rather have a housefull of animals than kids anyday. I am not considered to be a horrible person either, just have different ideas from other people. No big deal I think, animals need mothers and aunties too.

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:11 pm

RedGlitter;748113 wrote: Don't take me out of context Pam.

I said that because I think there is some conceit in wanting to see what kind of offspring one can produce. Not that people who have kids are selfish. The concept of having them can be. Thank you.

HUH? What do you mean?

JacksDad · Post by **JacksDad** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:18 pm

Sheryl;748118 wrote: HUH? What do you mean?

:yh_rotfl

She quoted in direct context.

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:20 pm

I'm confused by her statement.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:30 pm

Sheryl;748126 wrote: I'm confused by her statement.

Okay I will try to explain.

I don't find having kids to be selfish, I find some of the concepts behind it to be. Having kids because you love small humans and hope to offer the world something good is honorable. Having kids because you want to continue the family name is not. Neither is having them just because you think you and your partner can make great looking kids. Or because you want to see yourself in what you produce. To show off in other words. I find those last ones really corrupt. I find those reasons to be selfish.

Does that make sense?

weeder · Post by **weeder** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:33 pm

There is not a thing wrong regarding not wanting children. Very decisive and level headed decision. Having had a couple myself, I can definately appreciate the benefits of a life sans kids. Actually, I think to not want them, and not be pushed or shamed into having them, is totally the opposite of selfish. Your certainly not depriving the world of anything. There are many hungry, neglected children in our world as we speak.

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:34 pm

Yes I understand. So you think the elite and rich shouldn't reproduce! :wah:

JacksDad · Post by **JacksDad** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:37 pm

Or a persons heritage and legacy is meaningless?