Iowa caucus

thomas40 · Post by **thomas40** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 1:51 pm

tomorr is iowa cacus

we will see how this will turn out

grh · Post by **grh** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:20 pm

thomas40;752486 wrote: tomorr is iowa cacus

we will see how this will turn out

Who do you suppose is gonna take it, Thomas?

I can't imagine any of them actually leading us at the moment, but I for sure think women and blacks owe it to history to really examine the black and the female candidate's qualifications rather then just voting for one of them to be 'part of history'.

And I know I am not thinking logically here, but I have to admit I have a hard time voting for anyone that is named huckabee....

:D

along-for-the-ride · Post by **along-for-the-ride** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:39 pm

A question I ask myself is "Are we sending a lamb to the slaughter" if a woman or a black person is elected President? We have all kinds of Americans out there as we know.

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 3:17 pm

It will be interesting.

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 3:21 pm

grh;752500 wrote: Who do you suppose is gonna take it, Thomas?

I can't imagine any of them actually leading us at the moment, but I for sure think women and blacks owe it to history to really examine the black and the female candidate's qualifications rather then just voting for one of them to be 'part of history'.

And I know I am not thinking logically here, but I have to admit I have a hard time voting for anyone that is named huckabee....

:D

I can see it now. World media reports that America is now being run by Hucklbeery Hound..

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:04 pm

rjwould;752534 wrote: Everyone seems to going very willingly. Thats what puzzles me the most. Why in the world would anyone want to be president of the United States? Beside ending up in the history books, it's a crazy idea.

As has been said before - you should never give power to anyone who wants it.

The more they fight to get it the more they should be kept from it.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:55 am

Its because someone has to do it, and it directly effects your country and your life, and if you don't bother or don't care then that vacuum will be filled with people whom you certainly would not want in power. For example, if more American democrats has bothered to get up off their backsides in 2000 and vote for Al Gore then George Bush wouldn't have won and maybe things wouldn't have turned out the way they did. Its the same everywhere, people complain about the nature of their leaders, but don't seem particularly interested in getting involved in the process themselves, even as voters. Thats the nature of the thing, it seems that Obama has won a considerable victory on the Democratic side, which although largely symbolic is remarkable for a lot of reasons.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:03 am

Galbally;753107 wrote: Its because someone has to do it, and it directly effects your country and your life, and if you don't bother or don't care then that vacuum will be filled with people whom you certainly would not want in power. For example, if more American democrats has bothered to get up off their backsides in 2000 and vote for Al Gore then George Bush wouldn't have won and maybe things wouldn't have turned out the way they did. Its the same everywhere, people complain about the nature of their leaders, but don't seem particularly interested in getting involved in the process themselves, even as voters. Thats the nature of the thing, it seems that Obama has won a considerable victory on the Democratic side, which although largely symbolic is remarkable for a lot of reasons.

Sometimes it is not a matter of don't bother or don't care - I care very deeply how my country is run and I'm damn'd if I'll vote for any of the ba$tards the power brokers put before me.

The vacuum is constantly filled with those I certainly do not want in power, on the grounds that I do not have the option to chose anyone I would want to represent me (and that includes the option or putting myself forward as an MP)

almostfamous · Post by **almostfamous** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:29 am

Galbally;753107 wrote: Its because someone has to do it, and it directly effects your country and your life, and if you don't bother or don't care then that vacuum will be filled with people whom you certainly would not want in power. For example, if more American democrats has bothered to get up off their backsides in 2000 and vote for Al Gore then George Bush wouldn't have won and maybe things wouldn't have turned out the way they did. Its the same everywhere, people complain about the nature of their leaders, but don't seem particularly interested in getting involved in the process themselves, even as voters. Thats the nature of the thing, it seems that Obama has won a considerable victory on the Democratic side, which although largely symbolic is remarkable for a lot of reasons.

You took the words straight outta my mouth !!

I loathe people who just sit on their ass and don't do anything about it because they figure "what's the point, how will my vote change anything" ......... hel-effin-lo! Ummmmm, hmm. Well, if one doesn't vote, says it to another undecided, they choose not vote either and what do we have? A bunch of ignorant people who really don't care what happens in their country but want to complain about living conditions, health insurance, rate of pay, their children's lack of care etc etc. It sickens me.

Oh and by the way, GO OBAMA GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Patrick · Post by **Patrick** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:34 am

beffie;753267 wrote:

Oh and by the way, GO OBAMA GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Couldn't have said better! Obama is the first politician in memory that I haven't felt cynical about. Ron Paul too, I just don't agree with that guy has to say.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:39 am

beffie;753267 wrote: You took the words straight outta my mouth !!

I loathe people who just sit on their ass and don't do anything about it because they figure "what's the point, how will my vote change anything" ......... hel-effin-lo! Ummmmm, hmm. Well, if one doesn't vote, says it to another undecided, they choose not vote either and what do we have? A bunch of ignorant people who really don't care what happens in their country but want to complain about living conditions, health insurance, rate of pay, their children's lack of care etc etc. It sickens me.

Oh and by the way, GO OBAMA GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By voting for a candidate you are giving a mandate to the party (s)he belongs to for every policy in their manifesto and for every policy they may wish to dream up during their time in office.

Whist each party has one or two policies that I would support they all have many tens of policies that I will not and cannot give my agreement to.

What action would you recommend that I take?

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:41 am

I couldn't help but to grin when I saw that Hillary came in 3rd last night on the Democrat side.

:D

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:02 pm

rjwould;752487 wrote: unfortunately, the two most qualifed candidates are not getting the attention they deserve. That would be Ron Paul and Joe Biden, btw...

Biden is chairman of the committee on foreign relations.

Not such a good track record there.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:30 pm

rjwould;752487 wrote: unfortunately, the two most qualifed candidates are not getting the attention they deserve. That would be Ron Paul and Joe Biden, btw...
:yh_clap Yup! Yup! Yup! :yh_clap

drumbunny1 · Post by **drumbunny1** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:24 pm

ANYONE but Hillary Pleeeeassse!!! I do agree that people need to take more into consideration than gender or racial background....I hear a lot of women say "Go Hillary! Shes gonna show those men!" But hello? Have you really listened to what she has to say? If you have and you like it...then good for you...but do not vote for her just because shes a woman....

Ofcourse the ideal candidate would be someone in the middle..not too liberal, but not too conservative either...as most Americans fall into that catergory as well.

freetobeme · Post by **freetobeme** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:39 am

Why do so many people (my impression) dislike Hillary so much. I remember reading about a bumper stick that says "Run Hillary Run" for the front bumper

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:34 am

rjwould;753711 wrote: I don't get it either. She is a better choice than anyone on the republican side with the exception of Ron Paul. She is an intelligent person, a good orator and is a professional politician. I think all this talk about don't vote for her only because she is female is some sort of adolescent form of reverse psychology, but thats just me....

Theres always going to be the segment that has antiquated thinking but I think her character is whats scaring people. It is for me. Shes become too polished. Shes become a *gasp* politician. She has ego. Shes not forthright. I smell agenda. Shes not what America needs. Becoming president is very much what she needs though. Her motivation to lead I believe is self serving.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:13 am

rjwould;753724 wrote: In reverse---1) Every politicians need to lead is self serving it think. 2) America needs a professional politician to do a politicians work and clean up after this ass that is currently serving. 3) The agenda I smell is my own as I believe is the case with others (their own). 4) She is as forth right as any politician. Why is the bar set higher for her? 5) We all have an ego. 6) I don't get the *gasp* thing... 7) So, she has gotten better at what she does, whats wrong with that? Again the higher bar!

Her character is just fine. I would put hers up against anyone else's in the race..

I couldnt disagree more. Professional politicians reek of "playing the game"

Lobbying is what disgusts me about the process in Washington. So Clinton has gotten better at the game of speaking and appeasing, thats not what Im looking for. Im looking for a candidate that wants to get their hands dirty. Someone who wants to work hard for this country. I dont get that from her. From her I get this icky feeling Im being smoothed over.

Yes we all have egos but the presidency requires an exceptional and unique individual that can set aside their needs for the purpose of serving others.

I cant help but think Clinton is doing this for herself.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:52 am

Nomad;753728 wrote: I couldnt disagree more. Professional politicians reek of "playing the game"

Lobbying is what disgusts me about the process in Washington. So Clinton has gotten better at the game of speaking and appeasing, thats not what Im looking for. Im looking for a candidate that wants to get their hands dirty. Someone who wants to work hard for this country. I dont get that from her. From her I get this icky feeling Im being smoothed over.

Yes we all have egos but the presidency requires an exceptional and unique individual that can set aside their needs for the purpose of serving others.

I cant help but think Clinton is doing this for herself.

Well said Sir - the truest words in the thread. The government should be servants of the people - not the people serving the government.

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 12:31 pm

freetobeme;753684 wrote: Why do so many people (my impression) dislike Hillary so much. I remember reading about a bumper stick that says "Run Hillary Run" for the front bumper

She scares me!

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 12:57 pm

:wah: i dunno..it might have been those vacation photos that were leaked back when her hubby was still president. Hasn't there ever just been someone you just can't bring yourself to like?

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:14 pm

Trust me, I'm gonna vote for who I think represents the views and such that I think are important. But Hillary is just never gonna be that person!

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:59 pm

rjwould;753746 wrote: [...] The fact is Hillary Clinton took on special interest when she put her health care plan forward. The problem was her husband either did not have the political capital to back it or did not have the guts to, I don't know which it was.

Or it was just a bad idea.

I haven't seen anyone refer to her gender but you. I haven't heard anyone here, on tv or radio, or in person ever say we shouldn't vote for her because she's a woman.

Toss that crutch away.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:48 pm

rjwould;753746 wrote: Are you saying you know of someone in the race without an ego? Hillary Clinton has served with distinction in every capacity she has served. Give me some proof of bad conduct on her part.

People who dedicate themselves to politics are not bad people for doing that. Judge each person by their history. The fact is Hillary Clinton took on special interest when she put her health care plan forward. The problem was her husband either did not have the political capital to back it or did not have the guts to, I don't know which it was.

Hillary Clinton is a dedicated and sincere American unless anyone can show me any different. Lay your cards out.....I'm in...

Ok deep down she probably has the countries best interests at heart. So Ill make a contradictory statement, I think her drive is power motivated, I sense just under the top layer lies a very hungry woman. I sense she can taste what it would feel like to bang her gavel. I want to see someone that is wise and humble and wrong sometimes in this position. I want heart but not the heart of a lion.

grh · Post by **grh** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:55 pm

Nomad;753714 wrote: Theres always going to be the segment that has antiquated thinking but I think her character is whats scaring people. It is for me. Shes become too polished. Shes become a *gasp* politician. She has ego. Shes not forthright. I smell agenda. Shes not what America needs. Becoming president is very much what she needs though. Her motivation to lead I believe is self serving.

Who can you name that ran simply for the good of america? Here's your man!

http://www.paulsen.com/pat/

grh · Post by **grh** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 3:00 pm

rjwould;753909 wrote: That should be an obvious clue, my friend. The butler always did it..

But you're incorrect anyway because some have asked us to please not feel obligated to vote for her because she is female...I guess you overlooked those posts?

The truth is we ended up with what we now have in the way of health care because the republican machine refused to stand up to the lobby groups involved in the debate. Her healthcare plan was a good one, that's why the establishment resisted it.

There is a vast difference between not voting for someone simply because she is a woman and not voting for someone because she is a woman.

As a woman, I want history to reflect that once we finally elected a female or a person of color, we didn't do it for either of those reasons of sex or color, but rather due solely to qualifications to handle the job.

grh · Post by **grh** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 3:29 pm

rjwould;753958 wrote: Which Hillary Clinton possess as equally if not more than most of the other candidates...I'm still waiting for some facts, people...

I liked the Hillary I saw during the Health Care Reform Meetings that were televised . didn't agree with everything she suggested but she came across as intelligent, informed and full of conviction.

She handled herself fairly well during whitewater and the rose law firm issues.

She lost me about the time bill was getting his BJ at work and she didn't castrate him for it. Not so much for the BJ itself, as for letting her step out in public and defend him against the accusations. I happened to have watched her 'stand by her man' statement on 60 minutes that so upset loretta lynn or whoever that was. It was a pretty cool moment and I remember thinking that there was a woman who wouldn't take crap from anyone. And she then proceeds to walk around with crap on her face for the remainder of his presidency. I would have respected her more had she simply moved away.

And don't get me wrong here. I could care less who either of them is sleeping with so long as I don't have to roll over and see them. This just speaks to her character for me, kinda like folks that see sticking to a marital commitment is a great thing may admire her for it.

freetobeme · Post by **freetobeme** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 3:31 pm

Sheryl;753829 wrote: She scares me!

That's what I hear a lot, but I (speaking as a Canuck) haven't seen a heck of a lot that's really scary.

BTW does anyone know what the actual election platform of any of the candidates is, to me there's not a heck of a lot of difference, cos none of them have really come out and said anything worthwhile.

grh · Post by **grh** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 3:54 pm

rjwould;753988 wrote: A smart person knows when and where to pick their fights. There wasn't much she could have done in public, she also had a daughter to consider, none of us knows what went on in private. The fact is, she has him working his ass off for her now, doesn't she? She is a good, honest and dignified lady and I challenge anyone here to dispute that with facts..period..

She isn't my first or second choice either, but I have honest political reasons for that.

She sold her soul, IMO. Perhaps a long long time ago. In any case I no longer trust that she is who she appeared to be. That simple. And if I can't trust her, I can't vote for her.

grh · Post by **grh** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:28 pm

rjwould;754003 wrote: Great, give me reasons you don't trust her. When and for what did she sell her soul for? I'm looking forward to your answer. I'm so glad the American people are so informed about this candidate. Do any of you have any knowledge about any of the candidates and what they stand for?

She looked into that camera and told me she was no loretta lynn, standing by her man. I believed her.

End of story. I have never pretended to be the forgiving type. Lie to me , fine. Lie to me and I find out - don't ever expect me to believe in you again.

And yes, it does make for a very short list of family and friends. I have found that I do not mind that.

grh · Post by **grh** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:31 pm

rjwould;754023 wrote: Her marriage is none of your business...

Try not to be so deliberately dense dear.

She could have looked into that same camera and said 'It's none of your business' and I would respect her today. She didn't. She opted to lie to me and everyone else. I don't forget or forgive that.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 10:52 pm

rjwould;753950 wrote: How about some facts....

Everything Ive said up to this point doesnt require factual representation.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:03 pm

Also since Im convinced many politicians will say anything that adds longevity to their success as a career politician Im forced to rely on my instincts. I trust my instincts.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 5:40 am

Most congressional activity does nothing for me to know whether a person will be a good president. They are two completely different jobs. Being a member of the House or Senate is to represent the electorate's needs/desires regardless of one's personal opinions. It is little more than a lobbyist position.

The office of President is a leadership position. Steering, influencing, directing. A President has to weigh all the factors and then make decisions -- tough decisions -- even if sometimes a decision goes against public opinion. A Senator would never go against public opinion.

All things equal, I would vote for a governor, CEO, or even a mayor before a senator.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 9:45 am

rjwould;754319 wrote: Yikes!!!
Yikes what? Spell it out for me.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:15 am

rjwould;754330 wrote: I've already done that in other threads...Perhaps you would like to search my posts?
I've read most of your posts, possibly all of the political ones. None of them responds to my post. I suppose I could try interpreting your thoughts, but you & I have both proved ourselves unsuccessful at that, at least in regards to each other.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:17 am

We have parallel convos going. I'll just link the two together.

rjwould;754338 wrote: So, the fact that the presidents main responsibilities are security and foreign affairs does not weigh heavy for you? You just want them to be able to manage a bank account even though that job is the responsibility of the House of Representatives? Being a Governor and being president is so different.

Now, I'm not saying it can't be done. If the person has the ability to oversee foreign negotiations and compromise, gain the respect of members of other countries and is creative in his or her thinking, fine. I only see those qualities in Richardson. The others may be nice people (or not), but in my mind they lack qualifications..

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:21 am

rjwould;754341 wrote: check my posts in the "huckabee and evoution" thread and in the "Hillary Clinton" thread. BTW--I like your humor.

Done, thanks. And thanks; likewise.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:26 am

Accountable;754344 wrote: Done, thanks. And thanks; likewise.

Is this a love fest or a political debate ? Criminy ! (Ive never said criminy before, I didnt think I could pull it off but I think it worked)

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:28 am

Nomad;754349 wrote: Is this a love fest or a political debate ? Criminy ! (Ive never said criminy before, I didnt think I could pull it off but I think it worked)
You'd be a loveable fuzzball, if you had fuzz.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 4:24 pm

rjwould;754003 wrote: Great, give me reasons you don't trust her. When and for what did she sell her soul for? I'm looking forward to your answer. I'm so glad the American people are so informed about this candidate. Do any of you have any knowledge about any of the candidates and what they stand for?

As an interested outsider I'm confused about what drives American politics and I got to wondering what makes you such an aggressive supporter of hers?

In every thread I've seen on the primaries you've jumped on anyone who's posted anything negative about her and I'd love to know what produces such zeal.

almostfamous · Post by **almostfamous** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:49 am

Bryn Mawr;753279 wrote: By voting for a candidate you are giving a mandate to the party (s)he belongs to for every policy in their manifesto and for every policy they may wish to dream up during their time in office.

Whist each party has one or two policies that I would support they all have many tens of policies that I will not and cannot give my agreement to.

What action would you recommend that I take?

I would recommend continuing your research, take into account pros and cons and if all else fails............ pick the lesser of two evils in the front running when the time comes. As for our upcoming election, I respect Sen. Obama in many many ways and yes, there are things that I don't and won't agree with if he wins the election but looking at the other candidates, I feel he would do the best job and make a huge change for us, not just talk about it.

almostfamous · Post by **almostfamous** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:50 am

Sheryl;753283 wrote: I couldn't help but to grin when I saw that Hillary came in 3rd last night on the Democrat side.

:D

WOOT WOOT :yh_dance

by the way miss sheryl .... :-4

I've missed ya woman :-6

almostfamous · Post by **almostfamous** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 6:08 am

rjwould;753746 wrote: Are you saying you know of someone in the race without an ego? Hillary Clinton has served with distinction in every capacity she has served. Give me some proof of bad conduct on her part.

People who dedicate themselves to politics are not bad people for doing that. Judge each person by their history. The fact is Hillary Clinton took on special interest when she put her health care plan forward. The problem was her husband either did not have the political capital to back it or did not have the guts to, I don't know which it was.

Hillary Clinton is a dedicated and sincere American unless anyone can show me any different. Lay your cards out.....I'm in...

To me, her ego isn't what bothers me most, even though my next statement is related somewhat. It's her lack of sincerity and humility.

Yeah, she'll have some what of a big head due to feeling and knowing she would have a lot to prove given that she's a woman, Obama, in a sense, does as well due to his race. I simply don't trust her to make the appropriate decisions on her own recognition. I look into people's eyes to see who they are and when I look into hers, I feel she's just blowing smoke. As for my chosen candidate, I feel he has an intuition and perception of what it will truly take to turn our country around. And in his eyes, I see true compassion for our people.

almostfamous · Post by **almostfamous** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 6:13 am

Nomad;754231 wrote: Also since Im convinced many politicians will say anything that adds longevity to their success as a career politician Im forced to rely on my instincts. I trust my instincts.

amen.