Want to home school in Calif.?

valerie · Post by **valerie** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 8:34 pm

Looks like now parents are going to be required to have a teaching

credential...

Home school

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 2:27 am

Just to play devils advocate for a moment, and please don't anybody take this a a personal attack.

Do you not think there is a case for ensuring that the children of parents in religious cults are prevented for from being brainwashed by their parents? If necessary teach religion as part of the education rather than as the main driving force.

We have problem here (scotland) perpetuated by separate catholic schools that do nothing except perpetuate sectarianism. Now muslims are demanding the same rights (don't want the girls mixing with white boys in a secular education system and learning to resist their parents.) and the govt can't say no without making the whole thing a major political issue-most people would do away with separate schools altogether because they are incredibly divisive.

Secondary schools teachers are all graduates- a subject degree being the minimum- followed by further teaching qualifications. Primary teachers don't need the subject degree but it's a four year B Ed course followed by a probationary period. there's very little call for home schooling, where there is it's often some obscure religion.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 4:33 am

JAB;795488 wrote: We haven't heard the last of this as it will be caught up in appeal for awhile I believe. Besides, they're not even sure it will be enforced.
They're probably not sure it can be enforce. But let's face it, this is one of those laws that get on the books and languish until some DA needs some way to break into your house. Somebody pisses of a local official ten years form now & they'll drag this out of the mothballs to show who's reall "in charge" around here.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 4:40 am

gmc;795562 wrote: Do you not think there is a case for ensuring that the children of parents in religious cults are prevented for from being brainwashed by their parents? If necessary teach religion as part of the education rather than as the main driving force.

Nope. Not in the US. This is the essence of our liberty. Parents get to choose if they want the government to do the brainwashing or to do it themselves. Those with money can choose private cleaning agencies such as churches, military academies, or Skull & Bones-type brainwashing facilities.

I'm guessing CA doesn't have Menonites or other such closed communities (I know there are others, I can't think of their names)?

Post by **spot** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 5:46 am

Menonites form communities but not, as far as I know, closed communities. I'm sure if the closest school to me was run as a Menonite foundation (were I living in the US, you understand) they'd be happy to take any children I wanted educating as day pupils.

The problem, Jester, is the family which says it wants to home school but actually provides no academic education whatever to the child. It comes down to whether there's a natural right to leave a child uneducated, unable to read or write, still talking some strange dialect, just because the parent doesn't want to go to the effort of taking it back and forth to school and washing its face once a week for show. Not that I think you would. Hold a child back from learning, that is - I don't mean you'd not wash its face at least weekly.

Pheasy · Post by **Pheasy** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 5:56 am

spot;795604 wrote: Menonites form communities but not, as far as I know, closed communities. I'm sure if the closest school to me was run as a Menonite foundation (were I living in the US, you understand) they'd be happy to take any children I wanted educating as day pupils.

The problem, Jester, is the family which says it wants to home school but actually provides no academic education whatever to the child. It comes down to whether there's a natural right to leave a child uneducated, unable to read or write, still talking some strange dialect, just because the parent doesn't want to go to the effort of taking it back and forth to school and washing its face once a week for show. Not that I think you would. Hold a child back from learning, that is - I don't mean you'd not wash its face at least weekly.

Someone correct me if I am wrong on this one. But, I thought that home-schooled children are still required to take the necessary testing to ensure that they are academically on target?

Post by **spot** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:26 am

I'm sure they are. Children fail exams all the while. Are you saying some enforced remedial safety-net catches failing children?

Pheasy · Post by **Pheasy** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:46 am

spot;795625 wrote: I'm sure they are. Children fail exams all the while. Are you saying some enforced remedial safety-net catches failing children?

I don't know. Its an interesting question - maybe those here who home-school will be able to answer this question.

If I were a parent teaching my child at home the only way I would be able ascertain if my child is academically behind, is by test scores and their ability to complete the work assigned for their grade. So saying that, maybe some sort of training for these parents is essential?

Pheasy · Post by **Pheasy** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:10 am

I am very much undecided about weather I would want to home-school my children. I really do not like Jr.High, however I am prepared to give it a fair shot, observing VERY closely my childrens ability to learn and cope in this environment, together with its social challenges.

I do think, from my own experiences in dealing with home-schooled children that academically they do seem to be more advanced. However, last summer I assisted at our environmental summer camp, which was made up of main stream kids and about 5 different families of home-schooled kids. The home-schooled kids seem to be very knowledgeable, however there ability to interact with children outside of their group was zero. I did also find, their constant shouting out answers, and talking over the top of others very annoying and rude. The ability to interactive with others and ability to work in a group environment was seriously lacking. (Pheasy waits for the home-schoolers to slap her - but sorry I say it as I saw it).

Anyway back on track. I know of an 8th grade girl (13 yrs) who home-schools herself via the internet. The only reason for this is her mother is a drug addict! By home-schooling herself she is able to look after her mother, who sleeps most of the day, and to care for her 7 year old brother, as well as educating herself.

Although I know there are many dedicated parents here, who successfully home-school their children, and for the right reasons. A change in the system, with closer monitoring and training, would capture those abusing it.

valerie · Post by **valerie** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:36 am

Maybe I haven't seen that many who are home schooled but in every

case the ones I have seen the children are brighter and more interested

in learning and the moms (haven't seen any dads doing it) are very

good teachers. Patience and far lower student to teacher ratios seem

to work very well. The only thing I can think of that is a bit of a

problem for them is the socialization aspect of school, I know there

are some who've managed to work away around it but probably a lot

others who haven't.

One mother I saw on the news last night brought up that they eat

food cooked in their kitchen, they don't have to follow any health

code regs to do that!

Pheasy · Post by **Pheasy** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:41 am

valerie;795886 wrote: Maybe I haven't seen that many who are home schooled but in every

case the ones I have seen the children are brighter and more interested

in learning and the moms (haven't seen any dads doing it) are very

good teachers. Patience and far lower student to teacher ratios seem

to work very well. The only thing I can think of that is a bit of a

problem for them is the socialization aspect of school, I know there

are some who've managed to work away around it but probably a lot

others who haven't.

One mother I saw on the news last night brought up that they eat

food cooked in their kitchen, they don't have to follow any health

code regs to do that!

Good point. My son has junk food at school every day. His choice, which I have no control over, and the schools don't care to ditch this as an option on their menus.

Pheasy · Post by **Pheasy** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:20 am

Jester;795969 wrote: There is both great danger and great reward in homeschooling, but its not the end all and be all of the education process. I advocate that parents take total and full control of thier childs education, if you want public school, fine, or private , it doesntmatter, or educate them at home thats fine too, but either way its your responsiblity as a parent to make sure they get educated, and that they becomes socailly interactive AS APPROPRIATE, for age and social situation, public school can be just as socially negative for some children as can totally homsechooling them can be. You have to know your childs heart and keep your childs heart, then they learn.

.

Test the kids, if they score below the same standard as public shool chidlren then investigate, otherwise leave them alone. But dont make a blanket law, or mandate that eliminates one of the best ways to educate a child from the parents list of available ways to do so.

Totally agree with you :-6

Post by **spot** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:31 am

I'm all for it. I'm sure it does Jester's children good to be nurtured so directly.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:31 pm

spot;795604 wrote: Menonites form communities but not, as far as I know, closed communities. I'm sure if the closest school to me was run as a Menonite foundation (were I living in the US, you understand) they'd be happy to take any children I wanted educating as day pupils.Ah but would the state of California be as happy? I don't think California is as tolerant as they claim to be.

Post by **spot** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 4:05 am

Accountable;796618 wrote: Ah but would the state of California be as happy? I don't think California is as tolerant as they claim to be.

Menonites are about behaviour, not theology. They do use prayer as a behaviour modifier an awful lot though. Are teachers allowed to threaten to pray for a badly behaving child in their class in California, or is that actionable?

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 8:51 am

spot;796836 wrote: Menonites are about behaviour, not theology. They do use prayer as a behaviour modifier an awful lot though. Are teachers allowed to threaten to pray for a badly behaving child in their class in California, or is that actionable?
I would think that would concern the infinitely wise CA gov't even more than prayer. These kids are being denied such basic life necessities such as cable TV and the internet. They'll never be able to complete college without these! And we all know that without a college degree they will end up starving on the streets; or worse, voting Republican.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 8:58 am

Jester;796696 wrote: The other websites listed Wyoming as the most friendly state for homeschoolers. Interesting, I'm now seeing why CA is loosing its citizens.
A prime example of the best thing about American liberty, and the best argument against giving more than minimum power to the federal gov't.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:51 pm

Accountable;796989 wrote: A prime example of the best thing about American liberty, and the best argument against giving more than minimum power to the federal gov't.

So what would you do about dangerous groups that use home-schooling as an excuse to keep control of their children? Or that every child should have a right to a good education even if the parents don't want them to have it. Muslims for example, or no doubt there are some obscure Christian sects with the same attitude, that think girls should not be educated at all since all they are going to do is get married and have children anyway?

I live in a country where school attendance is compulsory up to age 16 and you can opt out only in very special circumstances. That you want to home school is not in itself sufficient reason. You can do so so long as you can meet the standard.

Not big brotherish more a case of ensuring no child should be deprived of an education even if parents think they don't need it. In fact a muslim school in dundee recently found itself in trouble for just that reason (not educating the girls to a sufficiently high standard) It was a case of sort it or be closed. To have let them away with it would have been an injustice to the pupils involved.

Very few children in Scotland are educated independently, most of those in private schools which cater for around 4% of schoolchildren. Private schools are self funding and parents pay fees for their children to attend, many under the mistaken impression that the teachers are actually better then the state sector.

Freedom requires an educated populace.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 4:31 pm

You handle abuser on a case-by-case basis. You always handle things like this on a case-by-case basis and make decisions based on the individual circumstances. You never ever ever ever ever ever never ever ever deprive the majority of a basic right simply because a small minority might abuse that right.

Not ever.

Freedom requires defense against the well-intentioned.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:31 am

Accountable;797309 wrote: You handle abuser on a case-by-case basis. You always handle things like this on a case-by-case basis and make decisions based on the individual circumstances. You never ever ever ever ever ever never ever ever deprive the majority of a basic right simply because a small minority might abuse that right.

Not ever.

Freedom requires defense against the well-intentioned.

Then why not take as a starting point that every child is entitled to a good education, That is surely the basic right you should be protecting? If the state has any function surely it is to allow all equal opportunity and equal access to education is one of the best ways to do that. Here Attendance at school is compulsory, and if parents want to opt out they have to be able to prove it is at least as good as the mainstream and have a good reason for it. The problem with the muslim school, for example, was not the religious content it was the fact that little else was being taught. We have catholic schools where they teach what they want but the basics of a broad education must be there. We also allow muslim schools but the secular aspects need to be there as well. personally I think seperate schools are incredibly divisive and encourage sectarianism.

How would you feel if someone opened a madrassa in your neighbourhood and started preaching wahhibism? would it be any less acceptable than a Christian school that taught only creationism or would both be allowed? Should you protect the basic right of every child to a good education or turn a blind eye to children being left ignorant of the world around them in all it's varieties?

I'm not trying to harangue you, so hopefully I'm not coming across like that.

I just believe every child should have access to education and have the chance to learn a different viewpoint from the parent. Take sectarianism for example. The best way to combat that IMO is have catholic and protestant sitting side by side in school.The best way to combat racism is have children mixing. The sight of a four year old at a rangers game singing the sash with the fond parents looking on makes you realise that the problem is with the parents, so how to combat that kind of thing?

give you an example from personal experience. When I was seven they opened a catholic primary school in my home town, suddenly friends were going to a different school, why> because they were catholic, what's that, a different religion-you mean you're not Christian, christian yes but we're not supposed to mix with protestants. ( I remember the conversation well, it's one of these WTF childhood moments you always remember), two months later on there were regular fights on the way home if groups from the different school met.

It's hard to hate someone you know as a person and a short step from that to realising that categorising one group because of their religion or colour is not necessarily the way to go. Bigots need the isolation of their children to perpetuate the bigotry. Children don't care about differences they are just interesting things to find out about, you have to teach racism and bigotry from an early age. If it comes to religion you can teach particular beliefs at home so why do religious groups see secular education as a threat?

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 8:10 am

gmc;797514 wrote: Then why not take as a starting point that every child is entitled to a good education, That is surely the basic right you should be protecting? If the state has any function surely it is to allow all equal opportunity and equal access to education is one of the best ways to do that. Here Attendance at school is compulsory, and if parents want to opt out they have to be able to prove it is at least as good as the mainstream and have a good reason for it. Every child is entitled to a good education. It is a basic right here as well. Each state allows all equall opportunity and equall acces to education. School is compulsory until age 16 or 17, I forget which. Parents may opt out of public school. They prove it is at least as good as the mainstream by submitting to periodic testing. The good reason they have is that they are the parents and it is their responsibility to make sure their children get the education they need.

You keep crowing that the people control the government there. Same here, except that the government programs take a back seat to individual choice whenever possible.

gmc wrote: The problem with the muslim school, for example, was not the religious content it was the fact that little else was being taught. We have catholic schools where they teach what they want but the basics of a broad education must be there. We also allow muslim schools but the secular aspects need to be there as well. personally I think seperate schools are incredibly divisive and encourage sectarianism. You're allowed to think what you wish. What you call divisive and sectarian we call variety of thought that keeps us from buying into any government propaganda simply because we've been taught that from childhood.

gmc wrote: How would you feel if someone opened a madrassa in your neighbourhood and started preaching wahhibism? would it be any less acceptable than a Christian school that taught only creationism or would both be allowed? Should you protect the basic right of every child to a good education or turn a blind eye to children being left ignorant of the world around them in all it's varieties?Huge assumptions you're making in this paragraph, gmc. We have freedom of speech here. Real freedom of speech. Ideas are allowed in all their ugly. Only behavior is regulated. I daresay some of our communities similar to the Menonites (I can't remember the names right now) would be outlawed if the view you state were actually the law in UK.

gmc wrote: I'm not trying to harangue you, so hopefully I'm not coming across like that.Of course you are, to the newbies, but it makes me look stronger in my replies.

gmc wrote: I just believe every child should have access to education and have the chance to learn a different viewpoint from the parent. Take sectarianism for example. The best way to combat that IMO is have catholic and protestant sitting side by side in school.The best way to combat racism is have children mixing. The sight of a four year old at a rangers game singing the sash with the fond parents looking on makes you realise that the problem is with the parents, so how to combat that kind of thing? I agree with you by and large. Only a very small percentage of our population homeschool, and primarily because schools are dangerous places with drugs and violence, and teach values inbetween classes that no one actively supports. If we can get a handle on that I'm sure many parents will start sending their kids back.

gmc wrote: give you an example from personal experience. When I was seven they opened a catholic primary school in my home town, suddenly friends were going to a different school, why> because they were catholic, what's that, a different religion-you mean you're not Christian, christian yes but we're not supposed to mix with protestants. ( I remember the conversation well, it's one of these WTF childhood moments you always remember), two months later on there were regular fights on the way home if groups from the different school met.

It's hard to hate someone you know as a person and a short step from that to realising that categorising one group because of their religion or colour is not necessarily the way to go. Bigots need the isolation of their children to perpetuate the bigotry. Children don't care about differences they are just interesting things to find out about, you have to teach racism and bigotry from an early age. If it comes to religion you can teach particular beliefs at home so why do religious groups see secular education as a threat?
Here's mine: When I was a child I played all summer with the kids that lived behind us. We ran through the woods, chased frogs, swam in the creek - all the things country kids do. When I entered fourth grade the black & white schools integrated. Now I could see my summer playmates all year long! Unfortunately they were black and their black friends wouldn't let us play. Soon there were racial fights between kids that not only went to the same school, but sat in the same classrooms.

Public school's no panacea any more than homeschooling is. Public school indoctrination can be as dangerous as homeschool indoctrination.

I trust the vast majority of parents to do their best for their children. I trust the vast majority of our citizens to support our society. Given that, I trust that all but a very few parents who homeschool will teach, train, and indoctrinate their children to be fine upstanding and moral assets to society, and I am not willing to let those very few exceptions cause us to discard a very good thing.

magick13 · Post by **magick13** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 9:56 am

Hi Accountable, Thank you for inviting me to this group. I am new to the garden so Hi everyone I'm magick13. Because of some things that happened at my daughters school where she became a bystander of things she shouldn't have been and the public school really didn't do anything I am going to be home schooling her next year. Another mom pulled her daughter out of the school just this past Friday because of what happened and has already began home schooling her daughter as well. Unfortunately I don't really know that mom too well so I can't really get the advice I need from her about what shes doing.

I want to keep the school system out of me homeschooling my daughter and I have read the very little laws for the state of NY on home schooling so I know I have to get the form to the super before next year. I am also going to keep my daughters home schooling secular.

I do know looking up all the info on the website as far as finding the right things for an 8th grader can make you a little lost.

Hopefully this little county I live in doesn't put up a fight about me home schooling my daughter because its my choice not theres.

magick13.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 10:10 am

My job in special education puts me in a far different situation than most public school teachers ... heck, than any other teacher in my whole school, come to think of it. I deal with kids with psychological and emotional disabilities so severe that they can't function in a general education class. My whole day is spent helping them to learn how to function in society and finding ways to convince them to come to school every day. It's an opposite paradigm from the general ed classes where the big threat is "You'd better behave or I'll send you home."

Having said that, it keeps me from getting in the same rut that so many teachers fall into. I see that nothing short of a complete recreation of the education system would convince him to change his opinion, and I can really see his point. Magick, is there something that could be done at the teacher level that at least partially "fix" the system in your view?

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 10:46 am

posted by accountable

Huge assumptions you're making in this paragraph, gmc. We have freedom of speech here. Real freedom of speech. Ideas are allowed in all their ugly. Only behavior is regulated. I daresay some of our communities similar to the Menonites (I can't remember the names right now) would be outlawed if the view you state were actually the law in UK.

We have real freedom of speech here as well. (remember where you got that idea from originally) At the moment it seems a lot freer in some ways here than it does in the states, but that's off topic. Sects like the memonotes are nor outlawed-they just have to send their kids to a state school or to a private school if they prefer so long as the meet the minimum standards. It would be difficult for a home schooler to match the standards.

not quite sure what view I'm stating that you take issue with but it is the law that local councils have to provide an educational place for all children and attendance is compulsory except in exceptional cases. Incidentally there is no UK wide education system. the scots education system is very different from the english and welsh one.

posted by accountable

You keep crowing that the people control the government there. Same here, except that the government programs take a back seat to individual choice whenever possible.

We do but the current lot are in need of a good kicking at the polls. GB dodged having an elcction in november cos he knew they were about to get one.

You're allowed to think what you wish. What you call divisive and sectarian we call variety of thought that keeps us from buying into any government propaganda simply because we've been taught that from childhood.

Potentially divisive and sectarian and in many cases actually is. Scotlands secret shame as it were.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2004/jan/3 ... ithschools

The Roman Catholic church will decide today whether it is to boycott a £150m plan to replace run-down primary schools in Scotland with shared campuses, where Catholic children will mix freely with children from other faiths.

The church has threatened to pull out of a scheme in which Catholic schools would share facilities with non-denominational schools but retain their own identity.

In Scotland, schoolchildren have traditionally been separated on the basis of religion from the age of five, but there is a growing trend towards building shared campuses.

The Catholic church, however, is today threatening to scupper plans in North Lanarkshire to replace 14 primary schools with seven shared campuses because it is concerned that there will be too much integration between Catholic and non-denominational schools.

A survey carried out by the National Centre for Social Research in 2002 showed that 81% of Scots believed separate Catholic schooling should be phased out, a rise of 5% since 1992. Among the Catholic community, 59% believed it should be ended, a rise of 12%.

posted by accountable

Public school's no panacea any more than homeschooling is. Public school indoctrination can be as dangerous as homeschool indoctrination.

i would agree with you there but you do seem to have a very odd idea of what state education actually consists of. We don't live in a totalitarian state and one way to make sure we never do is good educational standards right across the board.

posted by accountable

Here's mine: When I was a child I played all summer with the kids that lived behind us. We ran through the woods, chased frogs, swam in the creek - all the things country kids do. When I entered fourth grade the black & white schools integrated. Now I could see my summer playmates all year long! Unfortunately they were black and their black friends wouldn't let us play. Soon there were racial fights between kids that not only went to the same school, but sat in the same classrooms.

So how would segregate schools have helped? hopefully you and your friends had the strength of character to follow your own way.

If the schools are crap fix them and get those responsible to do their jobs properly.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:32 am

gmc, obviously we have different problems with our education systems. Our system would never work there and vice versa. Viva la difference!

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 1:20 pm

Accountable;797964 wrote: gmc, obviously we have different problems with our education systems. Our system would never work there and vice versa. Viva la difference!

Similar problems, different history and approach. The cultural references and background are quite alien which makes getting different perspectives quite interesting if a bit strange.

My job in special education puts me in a far different situation than most public school teachers

Public schools here are actually private fee paying schools, religious education is the only subject EVERYBODY has to take (I rebelled and refused to go and was allowed to take music lessons instead after I made it clear I was having none of it). but it tends to be mainly protestant in the non denominational state schools although it's supposed to be about religion rather than religious if you get my drift.

We have a mormon church near me as well, they tend to watch in bemusement trying to work out what is going on, trying to explain sectarian bigotry to somebody from Utah who has enough trouble with the accents as it is never mind obscure cultural references is a whole experience in itself.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:26 am

Latest update:

California Court to Reconsider Home-Schooling Ban

The Washington Times

Cheryl Wetzstein March 28, 2008

Mar. 28--The California appellate court that recently appeared to outlaw home-schooling in California has now agreed to rehear the case, raising hopes among home-schooling supporters that the court will revise its ruling.

"Because this ruling impacts all Californians, we believe the case deserves a second look," said Gary McCaleb, an attorney with the Alliance Defense Fund, which asked the 2nd District Court of Appeal for a rehearing of the case, "In re: Rachel L."

Home-schooling advocates nationwide were outraged with the appellate court's unanimous Feb. 28 ruling that ordered two parents to send two of their children to school -- as the children requested, through their lawyer -- instead of home-schooling them.

Unpublished court papers show that the family has been involved in the child welfare system for 20 years, amid charges of physical abuse by the father and sexual molestation of several of the daughters by a family friend.

The court-appointed lawyer for the two youngest children, aged 10 and 8, recommended to a juvenile court judge that he order the children sent to school for their own education, safety and well being.

The judge sympathized with the children -- their home-schooling was "lousy," he wrote -- but he refused to order them sent to school because he believed their parents had a right to teach their children as they saw fit.

The children's lawyer appealed, and the appellate court ruled in their favor: Since the children's mother did not have the required "valid state teaching credential for the grade being taught," she could not teach the children at home, the appellate court said.

But the appellate court also opined that under California's Education Code, "parents do not have a constitutional right to home school their children."

This blanket statement, which appeared to criminalize home-schooling in California, roiled home-schoolers and their allies, and sent politicians to the microphones to defend parents' rights to teach their children. California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger promised that the law would be fixed.

Now a new round of briefings are due in April, and a new hearing is expected in June.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:31 am

Accountable;822566 wrote: Latest update:

California Court to Reconsider Home-Schooling Ban

The Washington Times

Cheryl Wetzstein March 28, 2008

Mar. 28--The California appellate court that recently appeared to outlaw home-schooling in California has now agreed to rehear the case, raising hopes among home-schooling supporters that the court will revise its ruling.

"Because this ruling impacts all Californians, we believe the case deserves a second look," said Gary McCaleb, an attorney with the Alliance Defense Fund, which asked the 2nd District Court of Appeal for a rehearing of the case, "In re: Rachel L."

Home-schooling advocates nationwide were outraged with the appellate court's unanimous Feb. 28 ruling that ordered two parents to send two of their children to school -- as the children requested, through their lawyer -- instead of home-schooling them.

Unpublished court papers show that the family has been involved in the child welfare system for 20 years, amid charges of physical abuse by the father and sexual molestation of several of the daughters by a family friend.

The court-appointed lawyer for the two youngest children, aged 10 and 8, recommended to a juvenile court judge that he order the children sent to school for their own education, safety and well being.

The judge sympathized with the children -- their home-schooling was "lousy," he wrote -- but he refused to order them sent to school because he believed their parents had a right to teach their children as they saw fit.

The children's lawyer appealed, and the appellate court ruled in their favor: Since the children's mother did not have the required "valid state teaching credential for the grade being taught," she could not teach the children at home, the appellate court said.

But the appellate court also opined that under California's Education Code, "parents do not have a constitutional right to home school their children."

This blanket statement, which appeared to criminalize home-schooling in California, roiled home-schoolers and their allies, and sent politicians to the microphones to defend parents' rights to teach their children. California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger promised that the law would be fixed.

Now a new round of briefings are due in April, and a new hearing is expected in June.

Souns like they have a good case for removing the children and putting the parents on trial as paedophiles