Could Barack Obama be elected president because he is African-American?

QUINNSCOMMENTARY · Post by **QUINNSCOMMENTARY** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 4:18 am

Well, I am back from my three weeks in Russia and ready to enter the fray once again. By the way I would highly recommend that everyone spend some time in Russia, it truly opens your eyes and provides a different perspective on the world that many of us niave Americans do not have. But I digress.

Could Barack Obama be elected president because he is African-American?

Conventional wisdom would say that prejudice in America will prevent Sen Obama's election, alter all the picture of Mrs. Obama and her daughter speaking at the Democratic convention is hardly what America has seen for the last two hundred years or so.

But reverse psychology is at work among Democratic operatives. Simply put, if America rejects Obama (and presumably his family), then it is proof we have not advanced in our racial relations and understanding, America is not willing to change and thus its standing in the world will continue to decline and its talk of equality will be seen as a farce.

In other words America is being put on a guilt trip. Vote for McCain and you are prejudice. Can you afford being tagged a racist and America as a racist country by not voting for Obama?

As bizarre as this strategy may sound it is not all that far fetched and among American liberals it may well be effective (assuming there is a liberal anywhere in the world who is not legitimately for Obama).

The real question is how will the guilt trip strategy work with older white Americans, with the middle class, and blue collar workers.

Who wants to be called a racist? :-3 Will that risk affect your vote?

Post by **spot** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 4:55 am

Will that risk of being called a racist affect your vote? How could it. Votes are cast in private. Not doing something in public to avoid suspicion of racism is one thing but if the only observer is your conscience then that's a different matter. If you're racist you've no conscience about racism anyhow. I'f you're not then your conscience is clear when you vote for either candidate. There's no combination of mental state that I can come up with which would cause a person to vote Obama other than racism itself if the voter happens to identify with his ancestry - and heaven knows, not many people could do that from an informed position.

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:43 am

Yes he could. Just as McCain could be elected president because he isn't. If we get equal numbers of folks with that as their criteria, they'll cancel each other out.

I think that this has the potential to be the largest voter turnout of our lifetime, for all the wrong reasons..

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:49 am

there is absolutely no reason he should not be elected!

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:05 am

Odie;963917 wrote: there is absolutely no reason he should not be elected!

Oh, depending on your stand on specific issues, that's an entirely debatable position..

If more folks lean to his ideology then they do McCain's, by all means... he should be elected.

But neither he nor McCain should get one American's vote because of the color of their skin... They most certainly will, but they shouldn't..

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:12 am

Voting of course is a private thing and none of us will know for sure how someone says they voted, and when asked, I suspect some will lie.

Post by **spot** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:19 am

Lon;963938 wrote: Voting of course is a private thing and none of us will no for sure how someone says they voted, and when asked, I suspect some will lie.That happened here in 1991 and threw the exit polls to the extent that newspapers announced a Labour victory before discovering how high a proportion of Conservative voters couldn't bring themselves to admit in public that they'd stuck to their old ways.

along-for-the-ride · Post by **along-for-the-ride** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 1:35 pm

As stated, our votes will be private. Ofcourse, race was never an issue in the Presidential election until now...........but wait............is it an issue now? For some folks, it will always be an "issue".

Welcome back, Uncle Quinn. Do post a thread on your observations of Russia.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 1:41 pm

along-for-the-ride;964256 wrote: As stated, our votes will be private. Ofcourse, race was never an issue in the Presidential election until now...........but wait............is it an issue now? For some folks, it will always be an "issue".

Welcome back, Uncle Quinn. Do post a thread on your observations of Russia.

To the extent of a supposed assassination plot because "America don't need no black President"?

Is this report for real or is it a put up?

eta http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7581611.stm

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:39 pm

Bryn Mawr;964258 wrote: To the extent of a supposed assassination plot because "America don't need no black President"?

Is this report for real or is it a put up?

eta http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7581611.stm

This is America Bryn... if you don't think several 'good old boys' aren't plotting to get their 15 minutes of fame... you just don't appreciate how warped our society has become...

It's all about being on court TV or the Gretta show.. don't ya know?

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:51 pm

flopstock;963928 wrote: Oh, depending on your stand on specific issues, that's an entirely debatable position..

If more folks lean to his ideology then they do McCain's, by all means... he should be elected.

But neither he nor McCain should get one American's vote because of the color of their skin... They most certainly will, but they shouldn't..

I have no stand on either, I was just answering the original question, 'should he be elected because he is an African-American.'

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 3:16 pm

flopstock;964306 wrote: This is America Bryn... if you don't think several 'good old boys' aren't plotting to get their 15 minutes of fame... you just don't appreciate how warped our society has become...

It's all about being on court TV or the Gretta show.. don't ya know?

I've been sitting here for the last five minutes just trying to get my head around that - and failing miserably!

Doing it for ideology, however warped, I could maybe understand, but to get yourself on the gogglebox :-2

shelbell · Post by **shelbell** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:54 pm

Doesn't bother me at all. I'm not racist...I love my little black grandson as much as I love my little white grandson. My little black baby will grow up knowing how much he is loved by blacks and whites since he is a mixed race baby.

As for Obama, he won't be the first "black" president (if elected) he'll be the first mixed president. There is a lot of racism going on in this election by both black and whites. Wasn't it Virginia (don't quote me on that)where he won 90% of the black votes. There are also people that won't vote for him just because he's black. I don't agree with most of his views, but it he was a Republican that shared a lot of my principles and values, I would have no problem voting for him.

Snidely Whiplash · Post by **Snidely Whiplash** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 7:27 am

I would love to see Russia first poster..! Lot's of good Vodka there..!

...............

I think that the black population in America is the most racist group in general as I've ever seen anywhere, and watching this election is just more proof of it all... :-3

That's all I've heard since this election started, is race race race race, he's pulling the race card, she's using the race card, bla bla bla...

Why is it that if a white person votes for a candidate because he's white he is a racist, but if a black person votes for Obama because he's black he's just showing ethnic pride..? Why is there BET (black entertainment television) and "black history month" here, and that's not racist, but if someone wanted to start the WET(white entertainment television" channel, every lawyer in the country and every civil rights group would be rioting in the streets to have that person fired from they're job, sued, probably charged with a hate crime, and locked up for being a racist..?

I don't understand any of it, none of this race stuff makes any sense to me..?

Obama could never be where he is right now in this Prez election except that he's black, because he has no other experience or qualifications at all..? He has no past poilitical record of doing anything that anyone can point to and say look at all the great things Obama has done, theres nothing there but a black guy is a fancy suit, that if you're white you have to vote for out of racial guilt, and have to vote for if you're black for racial pride.....

It makes me koo-koo when I try and rationalize it all, it's ridiculus....

Post by **spot** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:01 am

Because the white settlers in America imported five million black slaves as farm labourers and breeding stock, Snidley. It gives people a perspective when their forebears went through generations of that sort of abuse. It's not as though it ended with the Civil War either.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:26 am

Hoss;964669 wrote: I know one thing, its a real enough issue that if I were a secret service agent on the president and Barak Obama gets elected I'd have to weigh if I really wanted to take the bullet for a president. It's scary to think about. But I think an attempt on his life will happen. Our neighbor took his Barak Obama signs off his lawn when they announced Joe Biden as his VP. I don't think anyone in our neighborhood supports him now.

After posting here I turned on our news only to find that they've arrested several people over a plot to kill Gordon Brown :-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... -plot.html

Then, looking further, I found :-

http://www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/news/ ... ticle.html

It is understood no actual plot was in place but that officers discovered a written threat on an extremist website earlier this year.

It will be interesting to watch how this one pans out.

mikeinie · Post by **mikeinie** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:58 am

Why don’t you vote for him or not based on his capability has a leader.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:08 pm

mikeinie;965269 wrote: Why don’t you vote for him or not based on his capability has a leader.

Come on Mike - that would be too easy :wah:

yaaarrrgg · Post by **yaaarrrgg** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:08 pm

QUINNSCOMMENTARY;963729 wrote: Who wants to be called a racist? :-3 Will that risk affect your vote?

Racists don't care if they look racist. It's a badge of honor. Check out the South.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/06/10/ ... nSTCOther1

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 3:04 pm

Hoss;965445 wrote: I think there are all sorts of people who will give up their own life for the chance to kill a world leader.

If this is a real threat rather than just bluster and words then at least it's for belief rather than just for the fame of it.

Still totally wrong but at least understandable - the unknown rather than the unknowable.

QUINNSCOMMENTARY · Post by **QUINNSCOMMENTARY** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:16 pm

spot;965233 wrote: Because the white settlers in America imported five million black slaves as farm labourers and breeding stock, Snidley. It gives people a perspective when their forebears went through generations of that sort of abuse. It's not as though it ended with the Civil War either.

Not quite, not that the numbers matter much as one was one too many:

Twelve million black Africans were shipped to the Americas from the 16th to the 19th centuries. Of these, an estimated 645,000 (5.4% of the total) were brought to what is now the United States. The overwhelming majority were shipped to Brazil. The slave population in the United States had grown to four million by the 1860 Census.

And, the majority of early slave trading was conducted by the Portugese.

Post by **spot** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:01 pm

QUINNSCOMMENTARY;965563 wrote: Not quite, not that the numbers matter much as one was one too many:

Twelve million black Africans were shipped to the Americas from the 16th to the 19th centuries. Of these, an estimated 645,000 (5.4% of the total) were brought to what is now the United States. The overwhelming majority were shipped to Brazil. The slave population in the United States had grown to four million by the 1860 Census.

And, the majority of early slave trading was conducted by the Portugese.

The people who ran the ships matters? The numbers rose by an order of magnitude when the English took over.

The five million's a conflation of North America including the Caribbean. In my history books we call that America because we tend to focus on the English trade and that's where we carried them to.

My point is that the overwhelming majority of modern black US citizens descend from those five million slaves - from those shipped to the Caribbean as well as those shipped to what later became the USA. It's not impossible that I'm mis-remembering the number, if you think I am I can go and check and report back.

Here we are - http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/showp ... stcount=10 - I'll revise my figure down on the basis of that - "all the slaves transported to the Americas by Britain" comes to 2.5 million according to the last time I looked.

QUINNSCOMMENTARY · Post by **QUINNSCOMMENTARY** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 2:45 pm

spot;965721 wrote: The people who ran the ships matters? The numbers rose by an order of magnitude when the English took over.

The five million's a conflation of North America including the Caribbean. In my history books we call that America because we tend to focus on the English trade and that's where we carried them to.

My point is that the overwhelming majority of modern black US citizens descend from those five million slaves - from those shipped to the Caribbean as well as those shipped to what later became the USA. It's not impossible that I'm mis-remembering the number, if you think I am I can go and check and report back.

Here we are - http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/showp ... stcount=10 - I'll revise my figure down on the basis of that - "all the slaves transported to the Americas by Britain" comes to 2.5 million according to the last time I looked.

It is true that some slaves brought to the Caribean ended up in America, but the total number of slaves in the US never reached 5 million, close yes. The majority of those were born in the US, not imported. You are correct that once the trade got started, the English were foremost in the trade making the circle from Africa to the US to England and on to West Africa again.

QUINNSCOMMENTARY · Post by **QUINNSCOMMENTARY** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 2:51 pm

More than 90% of black Americans support Obama, and according to polls, more than a third of black voters say his race is either the most important factor or one key factor in explaining their support. Ignoring the fact that voting for the President of the United States because he is one color or the other is illogical (I know not from the persepctive of many Afirican Americans who see him as a sign of hope), is that also racist?

Apparently it is politically correct to say you will will vote for someone because he is black, but not politically correct to say you won't vote for him because he is black.