Grammar expression- what origin?

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RedGlitter
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Grammar expression- what origin?

Post by RedGlitter »

Have you heard people say "of an" such as "we sit on the porch of an evening" or "We'll be by of a Tuesday?"

Where does come from? Is this proper grammar? Is it a regionalism? How did this expression come to pass? :confused:
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Odie
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Grammar expression- what origin?

Post by Odie »

sorry, no, never heard of this and your right, is it grammar?
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gmc
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Grammar expression- what origin?

Post by gmc »

RedGlitter;984316 wrote: Have you heard people say "of an" such as "we sit on the porch of an evening" or "We'll be by of a Tuesday?"

Where does come from? Is this proper grammar? Is it a regionalism? How did this expression come to pass? :confused:


http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/ ... on?view=uk

It's correct grammar given the context, something you do habitually like- sit on the porch of an evening- of a tuesday sound a bit weird though.
Cow Patty
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Grammar expression- what origin?

Post by Cow Patty »

Must be a southern thing......yep we say that around here.

EX: I'll call you of an evening.....or.....I went by there of an afternoon....etc.

Don't know if its wrong or right, but everyone around here knows what you're talking about.:)
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spot
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Grammar expression- what origin?

Post by spot »

Lots of languages have a suffix which adjusts the meaning of a word. Old English used suffixes. Now those words are just left in regional dialect. Conventional modern English doesn't change word endings in these cases - they're called "cases" - the way German or Classical Greek do. There are usually said to be seven cases and people just learn them in English because they're not obvious. In suffix-changing languages they're more clearly visible.

"of" is the English way of expressing possession which is called the genitive case. http://www.ntgreek.org/learn_nt_greek/c ... nitive.htm discusses what the genitive case means in different contexts. It lists:H. Genitive of Time (kind of time) - In keeping with the basic meaning of the genitive, the genitive with words of time indicate the kind of time in which something occurs. That is, it indicates the time within which an event occurs (i.e. at nighttime as opposed to in the daytime). The normally inserted word ‘of’ for the genitive, could instead be translated ‘during’, ‘at’, or ‘within’.

E.g. John 3:2

"he came to Jesus during the night" Which is what the OP relates to. "Of the night" = during one particular night, "of a night" = during a series of nights but specifically each time it was night-time. It's been there unchanged for thousands of years across lots of languages. English use probably assumes a regularity of events in "of a night", I think, but that's a very minor twist on the basic meaning.

Why "of" to replace genitive suffixes? It's the English translation of the French "de", and the French invasion of 1066 brought a lot of French vocabulary and structures into English. As the genitive suffixes faded out from the English language, the French genitive preposition construction came in. "De" or "of" both mean, fundamentally, belonging to or possessed by, and that's what the genitive suffixes meant. They're two methods of expressing the same sense.
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RedGlitter
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Grammar expression- what origin?

Post by RedGlitter »

Very interesting. It's something that's bugged me for a while; I'm glad to have the background on it now. Thanks!
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