Scrat;1056874 wrote: Just in case no one heard of it last week the attack submarine Nerpa suffered an unexplained accident when the fire suppression system activated for no apparent reason. They found it was not a computer or equipment malfunction. It was murder?
I read about this... There seems to be rather a lot of these if my memory is correct, over the years. Why would they want to murder them??
Russian Sub deaths update.
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Russian Sub deaths update.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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Russian Sub deaths update.
Scrat;1056890 wrote: Apparently a sailor tripped something either accidentally or on purpose, why? I don't know. Hell it could have just been a prank.
Russia has a checkered past with her sub fleet, moreso certainly than the US fleet. I really fail to see why Russia has a desire for a blue water navy, they never have been good at building warships ect, they are a land power arguably, second to none. They certainly have gotten better at it though.
Without googling, I remember the one where they were trapped inside a Russian sub and the British were trying to get them out. That was dreadfull.
Russia has a checkered past with her sub fleet, moreso certainly than the US fleet. I really fail to see why Russia has a desire for a blue water navy, they never have been good at building warships ect, they are a land power arguably, second to none. They certainly have gotten better at it though.
Without googling, I remember the one where they were trapped inside a Russian sub and the British were trying to get them out. That was dreadfull.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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Oscar Namechange
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Russian Sub deaths update.
Scrat;1056907 wrote: Yeah that was a research sub, they were down there for almost 3 days till the Brits got the rescue sub to them I think. Russia did buy 2 of the British rescue subs too I heard.
I remember now.. It was The 'Kirsch' although i've probably spelt that wrong without checking. It's funny how they suddenly need the Brit's in times like that???
I remember now.. It was The 'Kirsch' although i've probably spelt that wrong without checking. It's funny how they suddenly need the Brit's in times like that???
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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Russian Sub deaths update.
JAB;1056938 wrote: I had heard about the deaths but not that there was a sailor that confessed. Seems to me that 7 years in prison is an awfully small price to pay for 20 deaths.
That's the foriegn forces for you!!!!!!
That's the foriegn forces for you!!!!!!
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Russian Sub deaths update.
Scrat;1056890 wrote: Apparently a sailor tripped something either accidentally or on purpose, why? I don't know. Hell it could have just been a prank.
Russia has a checkered past with her sub fleet, moreso certainly than the US fleet. I really fail to see why Russia has a desire for a blue water navy, they never have been good at building warships ect, they are a land power arguably, second to none. They certainly have gotten better at it though.
Commerce. They are a a landlocked empire hence the push to the baltic ports and to the black sea. commerce is wealth that any empire has to have, wealth is power that if you don't have people come and take the land off you. If people keep attacking you you either push back or go under. Britain was unique in that we only had to be a sea empire and all our resources went in to that so we ended up with the most powerful fleet on the planet and the biggest empire because of the wealth generated by commerce. At their heart most wars and empires are fundamentally about control of resources and the wealth and power that follows.
India seems set on becoming a major power in the area-think about it who are they likely to use a nuclear submarine against?
Russia has a checkered past with her sub fleet, moreso certainly than the US fleet. I really fail to see why Russia has a desire for a blue water navy, they never have been good at building warships ect, they are a land power arguably, second to none. They certainly have gotten better at it though.
Commerce. They are a a landlocked empire hence the push to the baltic ports and to the black sea. commerce is wealth that any empire has to have, wealth is power that if you don't have people come and take the land off you. If people keep attacking you you either push back or go under. Britain was unique in that we only had to be a sea empire and all our resources went in to that so we ended up with the most powerful fleet on the planet and the biggest empire because of the wealth generated by commerce. At their heart most wars and empires are fundamentally about control of resources and the wealth and power that follows.
India seems set on becoming a major power in the area-think about it who are they likely to use a nuclear submarine against?
Russian Sub deaths update.
Scrat;1057629 wrote: If the reason is commerce then it stems from another concept. Greed.
Russia really has no real reason to go anywhere for 90% of the goods needed. Minerals, energy resources you name it she has in quantity with the exceptions of things such as rubber and some textiles. She in theory needs to go abroad for very little.
Also in the age of nuclear weapons she has little to worry about if someone tries to take it away.
India becoming a colonial power is an interesting concept. Africa?
Not just greed. Russia had to become am empire itself or disappear under the rule of more powerful neighbours. Even sweden and poland each had a go at taking over. Just have a look at the history of peter the great or ivan the terrible for example. Just remember what else was going on in europe at the time. Modernise or go under, get access to the sea and technology and alliances against those empires on the borders with others who have reason to be fearful of them. Having resources is all very well but you need to protect them against all comers medieval warlords have no chance against more modern states. Russia has outlasted the french, german, british, austrian/hungarian, spanish, swedish, polish empires. Not bad going all things considered.
Now nuclear weapons might mean they don't have to worry but if you have potential enemies that might attack and are placing missiles on your border to defend against iran being paranoid is kind of understandable. We still have 19th century ways of thinking about the use of power, in some quarters, in a 21st century world. When you have a potential enemy with the most powerful weapon systems the world has ever seen and that is a sea power you need to be able to face them off.
Even with resources you still need the expertise to get them out and trade to make the wealth you need to improve things for your people. Russia has always needed to trade with the rest of the world. All the big cities are built on trade routes to the east and to the west. Kiev started as a Viking trading post.
As to india-in another age given their population and growing wealth might have become a colonial power itself but not nowadays. That's not what I said I said MAJOR power. India and China have a history of warfare-there is a nuclear armed pakistan on the doorstep and also a history of warfare. If you had neighbours that might become islamic fundamentalist you would be paranoid as well. It needs to be seen as a major power-think of it as a simian threat display, the most bellicose countries are often also the most fearful. Many of it's people are living in poverty yet it has nuclear weapons and space rockets-how many people would the cost of a nuclear submarine have fed?
Russia really has no real reason to go anywhere for 90% of the goods needed. Minerals, energy resources you name it she has in quantity with the exceptions of things such as rubber and some textiles. She in theory needs to go abroad for very little.
Also in the age of nuclear weapons she has little to worry about if someone tries to take it away.
India becoming a colonial power is an interesting concept. Africa?
Not just greed. Russia had to become am empire itself or disappear under the rule of more powerful neighbours. Even sweden and poland each had a go at taking over. Just have a look at the history of peter the great or ivan the terrible for example. Just remember what else was going on in europe at the time. Modernise or go under, get access to the sea and technology and alliances against those empires on the borders with others who have reason to be fearful of them. Having resources is all very well but you need to protect them against all comers medieval warlords have no chance against more modern states. Russia has outlasted the french, german, british, austrian/hungarian, spanish, swedish, polish empires. Not bad going all things considered.
Now nuclear weapons might mean they don't have to worry but if you have potential enemies that might attack and are placing missiles on your border to defend against iran being paranoid is kind of understandable. We still have 19th century ways of thinking about the use of power, in some quarters, in a 21st century world. When you have a potential enemy with the most powerful weapon systems the world has ever seen and that is a sea power you need to be able to face them off.
Even with resources you still need the expertise to get them out and trade to make the wealth you need to improve things for your people. Russia has always needed to trade with the rest of the world. All the big cities are built on trade routes to the east and to the west. Kiev started as a Viking trading post.
As to india-in another age given their population and growing wealth might have become a colonial power itself but not nowadays. That's not what I said I said MAJOR power. India and China have a history of warfare-there is a nuclear armed pakistan on the doorstep and also a history of warfare. If you had neighbours that might become islamic fundamentalist you would be paranoid as well. It needs to be seen as a major power-think of it as a simian threat display, the most bellicose countries are often also the most fearful. Many of it's people are living in poverty yet it has nuclear weapons and space rockets-how many people would the cost of a nuclear submarine have fed?