Morphine drip

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:12 am

I was watching a show last night on t.v.

Now to my understanding a morphine drip is for pain.

When my husbands father was dying, he had a morphine tube in him, and if we felt he was in pain, we would then touch a button that releases more morphine, hence less pain he would be in.

Last night, they had said a morphine drip is for used when someone is dying so it speeds the process up.

just wondering, are they used for both and if so how?

much more for someone who is passing to quicken up the process?

and if that's the case, why wasn't stronger morphine used on my father-in-law as it took 3 weeks for his passing.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:25 am

Odie;1244799 wrote: I was watching a show last night on t.v.

Now to my understanding a morphine drip is for pain.

When my husbands father was dying, he had a morphine tube in him, and if we felt he was in pain, we would then touch a button that releases more morphine, hence less pain he would be in.

Last night, they had said a morphine drip is for used when someone is dying so it speeds the process up.

just wondering, are they used for both and if so how?

much more for someone who is passing to quicken up the process?

and if that's the case, why wasn't stronger morphine used on my father-in-law as it took 3 weeks for his passing.

Raven would know..

I had three sets of major surgery. The first, i was given Pethadine by Injection every two hours. The second was a morphine drip with the click button same as the third. When my father was dying, he had a bottle by the bed and could help himself yet my sister had the click drip when she was dying, so I am as confused as you.

almostfamous · Post by **almostfamous** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:40 am

From what I understand about the use of it in the dying process is that it is a way to ease someone into their death. An intentional overdose being distributed by the medical team is a fair description I would have to say.

I have seen it used on many of my family members in their passing, most recently my great-grandmother. She was suffering from pneumonia at the end and her breathing was very labored and rattled. The morphine helped relax her muscles and nervous system so that she wasn't struggling near as bad. They gradually began increasing the morphine dosage and eventually she passed. I think it's kind of like... your body can only handle a certain amount of the morphine and at regular increments of it you're body just gives out especially in certain conditions. Ex: the same dosage might ease an elderly patient into their death where the same dosage might make a 20 year old (perfectly fit) high with no serious repercussions.

Like I said though, this is just my understanding of it

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:47 am

almostfamous;1244812 wrote: From what I understand about the use of it in the dying process is that it is a way to ease someone into their death. An intentional overdose being distributed by the medical team is a fair description I would have to say.

I have seen it used on many of my family members in their passing, most recently my great-grandmother. She was suffering from pneumonia at the end and her breathing was very labored and rattled. The morphine helped relax her muscles and nervous system so that she wasn't struggling near as bad. They gradually began increasing the morphine dosage and eventually she passed. I think it's kind of like... your body can only handle a certain amount of the morphine and at regular increments of it you're body just gives out especially in certain conditions. Ex: the same dosage might ease an elderly patient into their death where the same dosage might make a 20 year old (perfectly fit) high with no serious repercussions.

Like I said though, this is just my understanding of it

I understand what happened with your family, but why would the nurse who came to the house everyday....not give him more to speed up his passing.....as 3 weeks is just to long on the family and him?

almostfamous · Post by **almostfamous** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:55 am

After I posted I decided to do a little googling. The first article I linked talks about how morphine is frequently used for people with breathing issues, as it will slow the breathing. I talked about my great gma and how that was a major issue in the end that to us family signified she was still suffering even though she had been comatose for days. Collectively, we requested her morphine be increased. We knew that it would eventually slow her breathing to a stop but there were a lot of other factors that helped us realize that it was her time and she deserved a peaceful exit.

The second article talks of the stigmas of morphine use. In my opinion it's the doctors' way of avoiding being charged with things such as assisted suicide. I completely understand why they would want to steer clear of that perception of it but to those of us that have seen it happen and have spoken first hand with medical staff, it is what it is. All the same (assisted suicide or not), I agree with it wholly as I've yet to see it abused in my experiences and it has always seemed like a well-regulated comfort measure for end of life care.

Bias Against Morphine

and

it's a myth

almostfamous · Post by **almostfamous** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:02 am

Odie;1244816 wrote: I understand what happened with your family, but why would the nurse who came to the house everyday....not give him more to speed up his passing.....as 3 weeks is just to long on the family and him?

I'm not sure how the home care stuff works at all. Most of the family I've seen pass thru this method were all hospitalized. And honestly, I can't think of any of them that still had a level of consciousness. My grandfather passed of cancer 10 years ago and it was inevitable that he would die but they only used this method after he had lost consciousness. While he was still awake and coherent he had a morphine drip regulated by the button he could press.

I think it's horrible that your father in law suffered so much

My grandfather did too (for several weeks) but honestly so did my great grandmother (thankfully only a week or so was it the worst).

I kind of wonder if the increased dosages are only used once the patient is no longer able to convey how much pain they are truly in. I don't know though :/

moonpie · Post by **moonpie** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:54 am

The first time I had seen this morphine drip was when my mother in law was in the Paliative Care, and she was given this so she could use at her own discretion, up until she went into a coma. It had not occurred to me that this could be used to speed up the process.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:35 am

almostfamous;1244820 wrote: After I posted I decided to do a little googling. The first article I linked talks about how morphine is frequently used for people with breathing issues, as it will slow the breathing. I talked about my great gma and how that was a major issue in the end that to us family signified she was still suffering even though she had been comatose for days. Collectively, we requested her morphine be increased. We knew that it would eventually slow her breathing to a stop but there were a lot of other factors that helped us realize that it was her time and she deserved a peaceful exit.

The second article talks of the stigmas of morphine use. In my opinion it's the doctors' way of avoiding being charged with things such as assisted suicide. I completely understand why they would want to steer clear of that perception of it but to those of us that have seen it happen and have spoken first hand with medical staff, it is what it is. All the same (assisted suicide or not), I agree with it wholly as I've yet to see it abused in my experiences and it has always seemed like a well-regulated comfort measure for end of life care.

Bias Against Morphine

and

it's a myth

these are not what I mean, thanks.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:36 am

moonpie;1244901 wrote: The first time I had seen this morphine drip was when my mother in law was in the Paliative Care, and she was given this so she could use at her own discretion, up until she went into a coma. It had not occurred to me that this could be used to speed up the process.

it was used for pain as she was not 'about to die' then.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:40 am

almostfamous;1244826 wrote: I'm not sure how the home care stuff works at all. Most of the family I've seen pass thru this method were all hospitalized. And honestly, I can't think of any of them that still had a level of consciousness. My grandfather passed of cancer 10 years ago and it was inevitable that he would die but they only used this method after he had lost consciousness. While he was still awake and coherent he had a morphine drip regulated by the button he could press.

I think it's horrible that your father in law suffered so much

My grandfather did too (for several weeks) but honestly so did my great grandmother (thankfully only a week or so was it the worst).

I kind of wonder if the increased dosages are only used once the patient is no longer able to convey how much pain they are truly in. I don't know though :/

-this is why I asked.

was it strictly used for pain?

and if so, why wasn't increased so he would die.

he could barely nod when we would ask him, are you in pain...he could not talk.

I know it was used for pain....as he lived another 3 weeks.

thing is to... I have no idea how old that documentary was last night.

I never even thought to check the year.:-5:-5:-5

almostfamous · Post by **almostfamous** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:59 am

Odie;1244912 wrote: these are not what I mean, thanks.

I was just giving them as reference to my "opinions"

Odie;1244918 wrote: -this is why I asked.

was it strictly used for pain?

and if so, why wasn't increased so he would die.

he could barely nod when we would ask him, are you in pain...he could not talk.

I know it was used for pain....as he lived another 3 weeks.

thing is to... I have no idea how old that documentary was last night.

I never even thought to check the year.:-5:-5:-5

No, it's not strictly used for pain, as I stated in my responses, that is also what the articles stated in the links I provided.

As for a solid answer to your question. I would suggest contact with the hospice that provided the care? Only they can give you their reasoning. I, and whoever else, can only tell you about our particular situations which will all vary.

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:54 pm

Did you ask about his drip? Hospice Care is for one thing only pain free dying nothing else. If by some miracle they get better they go off Hosipce.

From what you have described he was not suffering and the length of time it took for him to pass away was determined by his body not the Morphine it only aids in the comfort level of the death.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:06 pm

CARLA;1244948 wrote: Did you ask about his drip? Hospice Care is for one thing only pain free dying nothing else. If by some miracle they get better they go off Hosipce.

From what you have described he was not suffering and the length of time it took for him to pass away was determined by his body not the Morphine it only aids in the comfort level of the death.

His mom never asked and we never thought to ask, we were told anywhere up to a month, the nurse came at the house everyday.

no Carla, we don't think he was suffering.

so maybe after all, that documentary could have been old...

thank you, that is such a relief:-4

I have always been able to count on you, you already knew that......but its always nice to say it to you again and again.

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:34 pm

Thank you Odie I try to be honest and give it to you straight glad I could help.

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 5:17 pm

Morphine will slow down the respirtory system

slowing heart beat - slow & low breathing - intil you stop breathing..

so yes, morphine is used to speed up the enevitable..

Patsy

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 5:22 pm

It gave my Mum an easy end to liver cancer. For which I am grateful.

Seeing both my parents die, and hearing both say it was time, has made facing my own death whenever it may be, less scary.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:05 pm

Patsy Warnick;1245068 wrote: Morphine will slow down the respirtory system

slowing heart beat - slow & low breathing - intil you stop breathing..

so yes, morphine is used to speed up the enevitable..

Patsy

oh really?

wonder why it took over 3 weeks...as he also had it in the hospital.....oh well.

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:43 pm

It takes as long as it takes 3 weeks isn't a long time. He was kept comfortable and it aided his final passing without pain or struggle. The rest was up to him, his body and the lord above. When he was ready to let go he did. It is always hard to watch a loved one die. Hospice is for helping those who are going to die do it with dignity without pain and suffering.

[QUOTE]Hospice Care

Hospice care is end-of-life care provided by health professionals and volunteers. They give medical, psychological and spiritual support. The goal of the care is to help people who are dying have peace, comfort and dignity. The caregivers try to control pain and other symptoms so a person can remain as alert and comfortable as possible. Hospice programs also provide services to support a patient's family.

Usually, a hospice patient is expected to live 6 months or less. Hospice care can take place

At home

At a hospice center

In a hospital

In a skilled nursing facility

[QUOTE]oh really?

wonder why it took over 3 weeks...as he also had it in the hospital.....oh well.[/QUOTE]

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:55 pm

Odie

3 weeks isn't long - it's to keep the person comfortable.

without the Morphine - a person would linger for some time and in pain..

there are also other drugs used for the same purpose - to assist a person for the enevitable..

Family's should be grateful for this being available

Hospice as Carla mentioned is a great service for the patient and the family, as I've had their assistance in a few occasions.

Odie - I'm sorry for your loss - you seem to think things should've been handle differently? or perhaps lifes experience is educating you & you seem to be surprised with some of the issues here..?

I'm always pleased if one is peaceful in their passing..

Patsy

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:15 pm

Odie

when Morphine is involved the situation is serious.

Length of time is undetermined as Carla mentioned.

Some are determined to stay & they're strong individuals that's all.

I'm happy certain drugs are available to allow the patient to be comfortable & peaceful instead of restless and in alot of pain.

3 weeks allows the family to rally/visit and prepare.

Instant death isn't allowed as we know Dr. Kavorkian was jailed for his asistance in instant death, which is another discussion in it's self.

be at peace with the 3 weeks and peaceful passing, I know the loss is hurtful

again I'm sorry for your loss

Patsy

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:56 pm

CARLA;1245102 wrote: It takes as long as it takes 3 weeks isn't a long time. He was kept comfortable and it aided his final passing without pain or struggle. The rest was up to him, his body and the lord above. When he was ready to let go he did. It is always hard to watch a loved one die. Hospice is for helping those who are going to die do it with dignity without pain and suffering.

but when they execute people in the states & wherever else, by lethal injection, morphine is just part of the drug they use....but they say that its the morphine that kills them.....obviously its given in a higher does.

and that`s also meant to kill them asap.....(5 minutes or more with excruciation pain...but I won`t go there.)

now that I have gotten over my fit:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

thanks again Carla, as I understand now.