Russia!!

David813 · Post by **David813** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:24 pm

VERY cool!! I loved the link!! I've never been to Russia but as a communist it has been close to my heart since I joined the Marxist movement in the late 80's. The USSR was a superpower, modern Russia is a 3rd world country. The bastions of the tiny rich population in Leningrad (as the Russians still refer to it) and Moscow hide the fact that even after decades of Stalinist rule, deviated significantly from communism, that the Russian CP is the 2nd largest political party in the country. Huge swaths of Russia have kept their Marxist-Leninist monuments and retain communists in local government. The treatment of it's soldiers is horrendous. You may know a more current number Scrat but up to 500 young Russian men conscripted into the military die of brutal conditions and hazing, abuse and disease PER YEAR. The worst thing to happen to this great country was surrendering the Revolution to salivating capitalist pigs overseas. Now the church there has been unleashed to divide the people even more. Skinheads murder foreign students regularly and that hate comes from Poverty and frustration with a failed dictatorship. Same thing is happening in eastern Germany where the godless commies were routed and now the eastern provinces have sunken into the worst economic conditions since WW2. Skinheads are abound. "Freeeedom" as our chimp prez pretends to cherish is not working in Russia or any of the former Soviet states. I predict civil war will turn Russia into a bloodbath very soon. The sickle & hammer represented a proud and powerful people with many luxuries and advantages they no longer have. "Sink or Swim" kills, and the people of Russia must rise up once again and reignite their Glorious Revolution.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 10:15 pm

Scrat wrote:

I know one thing. Russian soldiers are tough, professional and I pity the fool that gets in the arena with one.

I'll see your Russian soldier and raise you any Marine, Navy Seal, Green Beret, or Ranger. And I'll give you odds.

David813 · Post by **David813** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 10:22 pm

I guess I don't have as rosy of a future scenario as you. I read of soldiers there regularly paid in cabbages. Brutal commanders involved in the torture of transcripts. Rampant drug abuse in the ranks, soaring suicide rates and psychiatric hospitals filled with the young. Mothers working diligently to get their sons out of Russia and away from the military. Tales of unspeakable violence against civilians in Chechnya and Ingushetia, Ossetia are in press around the globe. The economy is in tatters and the birthrate is at a freefall as more Russians move out of the country than ever in modern history, even under Stalin! I love Russia and things Russian. I do not rejoice in the bad news that wells out of that once great country. The future is bleak as their armed forces of all branches work with aging obsolete equipment and rock bottom morale. The sub that went down near Murmansk not long ago was a tragedy Putin ignored. He carried on with trips and dinners as if hundreds of young (expendable in Russia) men died an agonizing death. There was no attempt at rescuing these men. A nearly impossible task but you can bet WE would have exhausted every avenue. Foreigners from the West were the 1st to reach the doomed sub and got no thanx for bringing those poor kids up. It will be decades before Russia reaches above a 3rd world existance as even tourism has plummeted according to the Russian consulate in Chicago.

David813 · Post by **David813** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 10:26 pm

BabyRider wrote: I'll see your Russian soldier and raise you any Marine, Navy Seal, Green Beret, or Ranger. And I'll give you odds.
They can't even secure downtown Baghdad!! Got their butts kicked in Vietnam by 5 foot tall guerrillas! Got beat in Somalia, Lebanon and have only managed to keep parts of Kabul in Afghanistan secure! The US hasn't WON a military conflict since WW2. Korea was a standoff and the Gulf War resulted in....oh yeah! The sheiks of Kuwait are safe now!! Red White and Blue?? Red white and BOOO!

David813 · Post by **David813** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 10:51 pm

I Forgot! The US did claim total victory over that Red Menace GRENADA!! An island smaller than DisneyWorld, hosting Cuban construction workers as they built a bigger airport runway! (This was one of Rotten Reagan's ploys to divert attention away from the military disaster in Lebanon just a week before.)

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 6:02 am

Whats Russia done?They have done nothing but get slaughtered by the germans in ww2 only to be at a stale mate due to freezing wheather conditions.The only thing that saved the russians from being over runned was the fact that our fellow AMERICANS entered the war.As for us losing any other war thats a joke.Communist countries are the cockroaches of human nature.There government owns everything there people work for.They have nothing but the clothes that they wear and there ideas that there unable to express.There prisoners for life all for just being born into communism.We Americans believe in freedom and have faught for that.We live in a society where we can have hobbies and do the things we would like to do as human beings, not as heards of sheep waiting to be stripped of theyre wool.We fight so people dont come in your homes and rape your mothers and sisters and take everything you own.You sit in your heated homes and food plentifull while real AMERICANS died in ww2 just so you could have all that.You go ahead and join communism.Us real men will take care of you.Your a joke.Your a joke waiting to be hearded like sheep.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 6:09 am

Scrat wrote:

You have to accept that the Russian military is different from ours. Hand to hand combat is practiced for real. They do not use PC pugel sticks like us. They use the real thing, fists, feet and teeth. There is cases of abuse, there are cases of inexperienced soldiers getting killed by their weapons and other accidents such as soldiers falling off of moving tanks. There are cases where one soldier goes home on leave and gets a disease and gives it to a whole battalion.

.

That just proves the level of ignorance over there.No wonder they ran when faced against the germans.Ha

Bothwell · Post by **Bothwell** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 7:34 am

I came across some of their specal forces a few years ago and they were the real deal, very very tough.

Russia for years did use it's soldiers as entirely expendible but do not make the mistake of understimating their capabilites. Against both Napoleon and Hitler they not only proved their fighting qualities but their doggedness as well. They new damn well that the winter would see both those tyrants off and they were right.

I am not sure some of the anti-russian views I have seen on here are particularly fair on the wartime population of Stalingrad. I have often thought how the less stoical citizens of say London or New York would have done in the siege conditions that those people endured.

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:48 am

Scrat wrote: Where else can you see a people with no money at all, that work for nothing, keep themselves fed, their children in clothes and in school books? Where else can you find this?

In America....we call them illegal immigrants.

Scrat, I have a question, why do you so fervently follow communism, when the pinnacle of communism, the U.S.S.R has collapsed?

Doesn't the example of Russia show very clearly that, although communism looks good on paper, the reality of human nature ( greed, corruption, and selfishness) makes the system collapse? :rolleyes:

David813 · Post by **David813** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 3:37 pm

K.Snyder wrote: Whats Russia done?They have done nothing but get slaughtered by the germans in ww2 only to be at a stale mate due to freezing wheather conditions.The only thing that saved the russians from being over runned was the fact that our fellow AMERICANS entered the war.As for us losing any other war thats a joke.Communist countries are the cockroaches of human nature.There government owns everything there people work for.They have nothing but the clothes that they wear and there ideas that there unable to express.There prisoners for life all for just being born into communism.We Americans believe in freedom and have faught for that.We live in a society where we can have hobbies and do the things we would like to do as human beings, not as heards of sheep waiting to be stripped of theyre wool.We fight so people dont come in your homes and rape your mothers and sisters and take everything you own.You sit in your heated homes and food plentifull while real AMERICANS died in ww2 just so you could have all that.You go ahead and join communism.Us real men will take care of you.Your a joke.Your a joke waiting to be hearded like sheep.
The Soviets took Berlin. The Soviets drove the Taliban out of Afghanistan and WE put them back in power only to fight them later! Are you saying the US WON the Vietnam War? Commie bashing is so tiresome. So are outdated rusty hacks in Ohio! :wah:

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 5:37 pm

Scrat wrote: Spetsnaz, Russian marines and full time soldiers in the army don't play war games on computers as kids. I take your bet, your raise and your odds and raise you 2.
*BR pokes through her cupboard*

Now where the hell did I leave my Navy Seal??? :yh_rotfl

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 5:44 pm

Scrat wrote: Who was occupying who's cities in the end? If you knew a little about the war (which you don't) you would know what your talking about. Put up something with substance or get to hell off this thread.

Your ignorant.

This isn't about Communism or the USSR. it's about Russians. Get off this thread if you don't like it.Umm...Scrat? I'm real certain that anyone, with any view...good, bad, right, wrong or indifferent can post what they think in any thread. You can argue their view, ask them to prove their assertions, but telling someone to get off a thread because you don't like what they have to say is a tad presumptuous. If you want a thread where you can post stuff about Russia that no on replies to or argues, start a journal. In the "Journals" forum.

"Your" ignorant should be "you're" ignorant.

See? People won't do stuff like that in your journal either.

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 6:27 pm

Scrat wrote: This isn't about Communism or the USSR. it's about Russians. Get off this thread if you don't like it.

(Jives chuckles softy, and smiles to himself) Now calm down, Scrat. You'll have to help me understand. I equate Russia with communism. That's how I was raised. In the Air Force, we didn't call them "Russians" we called them "The Threat". When I was younger, I had to "duck and cover" at school so that the Russians wouldn't kill me with nuclear bombs.

So help me out here, what really is the difference between "Russians" and "Russia"?

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 6:27 pm

Scrat wrote:

I flunked english in my senior year.

I am in absolute agreement. Now all they have to do is get off my thread.Threads do not "belong" to anyone, Scrat. If you want a place to post stuff about things that interest you, start a journal. As for pointing out your jab at Abbey, why not? She apologized, twice, and you didn't want to play nice. Shame on you.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 6:43 pm

David813 wrote: The Soviets took Berlin. The Soviets drove the Taliban out of Afghanistan and WE put them back in power only to fight them later! Are you saying the US WON the Vietnam War? Commie bashing is so tiresome. So are outdated rusty hacks in Ohio! :wah:the US did not win the viet nam war. but more importantly, we did not lose the viet nam war either. how could we have lost, when we pulled out two years before saigon was taken?

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 7:00 pm

haven't read this thread, but is Anastasia alive? (just trying to interject a little humor here). i studied the revolution, fascinating. i LOVE history. anyone see movie "nicholas and alexandra"?

David813 · Post by **David813** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 7:10 pm

anastrophe wrote: the US did not win the viet nam war. but more importantly, we did not lose the viet nam war either. how could we have lost, when we pulled out two years before saigon was taken?
I remember that fact. I recall frantic US military personnel on the roof of the US embassy scampering off asap. They got whupped. After murdering 3million southeast Asians and dropping more bombs in one region than any in history the Yanks were running like rats from a mongoose.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 7:14 pm

Scrat wrote: Thankyou once again for pointing it out.

YOU'RE the one who brought it up!!!! Sheesh... :-5

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 7:15 pm

*aside*

Why doesn't Scrat LIVE in Russia?

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 7:52 pm

LOL....good comeback Scrat. It was very, very fun fencing with you tonight.

I still don't understand why you like the Russians better than the Americans (your homeland) though. Well, tomorrow we'll go at it again. I'll say one thing for you, you don't back down easily and I like that.

It's late now and I have to go home and take care of my sick girl, but I'll be back ...en guarde!

David813 · Post by **David813** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 8:57 pm

Scrat wrote: I'm not done looting America yet. When it suits me I will defect to Byelgorod Russia and open up an icecream and Philadelphia cheesesteak sandwich shop on the bank of the Don river by the city park.
That sounds cool! I would open a government run beer and Marxist-Leninist bookstore in Omsk. Of course after the Revolution here in the Empire.

David813 · Post by **David813** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:12 pm

Scrat, What do you think of Zhirinovsky? The ultra nationalist? Just curious.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:35 pm

Scrat wrote: Philadelphia cheesesteak sandwich When I first glanced at this, I thought it said "Philadelphia cheesecake sandwich." I was pretty grossed out for a second. :yh_rotfl

David813 · Post by **David813** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:36 pm

Scrat wrote: I don't like him, Russians are passionate about things to the point of lunacy at times and frankly he is a little nuts IMO.

Russia needs stability to grow and prosper. Zhir will not be respected by the Russian people and therefore cannot keep it stable.

They need to stick with Putin now. He has turned the country from the path of destruction to the track of prosperity and managed to keep foreign companies from looting it like they do Africa.

Zhir wants power, nothing else, just power. Putin wants Russia to simply be better for the people and to be a strong, respectable society in the world.
I dislike him for the same reason. He's a dangerous reactionary and a racist. In my view Putin is made of the same stock, but he's alot better at keeping it under wraps. Certainly Putin is better than that traitor capitalist Yeltsin, who stood to gain a fortune by looting the nation on the backs of the people but Russia, IMO can do much better than Putin. The leader of the Russian CP maybe??

David813 · Post by **David813** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 10:16 pm

Scrat wrote: I know for sure that the Russian people DO NOT want communism back. The Duma was burning in 1992 because of that and it was how that drunk Yeltsin got into power.

To the Russian people Putin is a moderate and they can read him and they respect him. I believe that his goal is to bring about a similar socialized system of government much like what you find in Finland or Norway which while being much more socialized than our system is not communism like they had before.

Communism was not that bad in Russia as a whole, the restrictions put on the people by the likes of Brezhnev and the corruption is what did the most harm. Russia still has a problem with corruption but they are getting the message that it is best to walk a straight line or you will get a visit from a few of Putins friends. In the middle of the night.

Alexander Madrovich was shot dead in his bed in 2002 by somebody. I will bet that was a message to the oligarchs that if they want to play rough they will recieve like treatment in return. First.

It turned out that his estate was able to cover his unpaid taxes also.

:yh_rotfl

If you haven't noticed the oligarchs have been keeping a very low profile these last few years
Interesting. I know the CP is very popular with those 40 and older, and in the rural areas. In '99 one of our Party members (Socialist Workers Party, US) was shot & killed in Moscow. Her assailant was never found and the police did little to solve the crime. She was working with our now closed Russian HQ and hoping to start a youth movement based on our Leninist/Trotskyist platform.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 11:39 pm

David813 wrote: I remember that fact. I recall frantic US military personnel on the roof of the US embassy scampering off asap. They got whupped. After murdering 3million southeast Asians and dropping more bombs in one region than any in history the Yanks were running like rats from a mongoose.
wrong again. but thanks for playing. think again: saigon did not fall until two years *after* the US military pulled out. so you do not recall 'frantic US military personnel on the roof of the US embassy scampering off asap'. what was seen at the US embassy was the Marines assisting in the evacuation of the remaining american citizens, embassy personnel and south vietnamese refugees. all US embassies have a detachment of marines for security. however, US fighting forces had all been out of viet nam for more than two years when saigon fell

but i'm sure facts won't alter your concrete visions.

David813 · Post by **David813** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 4:02 pm

anastrophe wrote: wrong again. but thanks for playing. think again: saigon did not fall until two years *after* the US military pulled out. so you do not recall 'frantic US military personnel on the roof of the US embassy scampering off asap'. what was seen at the US embassy was the Marines assisting in the evacuation of the remaining american citizens, embassy personnel and south vietnamese refugees. all US embassies have a detachment of marines for security. however, US fighting forces had all been out of viet nam for more than two years when saigon fell

but i'm sure facts won't alter your concrete visions.
The US was defeated. They ran. Vietnam is communist.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:52 pm

Scrat wrote: Anastrophe. I guess your going to tell me that the retreat from the Chosin reservoir was an offensive.

It is true that the NVA would have not been able to conquer the south had we stayed there. It is also true that we would never have been able to bring the war to a conclusion, that in itself is defeat and the fact that the war was unwinnable makes it a clear loss of the enterprise. A lot of people did make a lot of money though.

Since you know everything why don't you tell me why we could not bring the war to a conclusion?
'never claimed i know everything. but smirk away, user.

if i could tell you why we couldn't bring it to conclusion, i'd be an oracle. i'm not. why are we talking about viet nam in the russia topic? oh - an example of the many successes of brutal, ruthless, communist ideology, that's right.

David813 · Post by **David813** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:55 pm

anastrophe wrote: 'never claimed i know everything. but smirk away, user.

if i could tell you why we couldn't bring it to conclusion, i'd be an oracle. i'm not. why are we talking about viet nam in the russia topic? oh - an example of the many successes of brutal, ruthless, communist ideology, that's right.
Mr A. needs several stiff drinks and maybe a bong hit or two. He's VERY uptight.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 6:04 pm

David813 wrote: Mr A. needs several stiff drinks and maybe a bong hit or two. He's VERY uptight.
i could use a drink, now that you mention it.

let me put it this way:

stalin: 35-60 million annihilated in the gulags.

mao: 20-60 million 'bandits' liquidated in the 'cultural revolution'.

tell me again what's good about communism?

David813 · Post by **David813** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 6:09 pm

anastrophe wrote: i could use a drink, now that you mention it.

let me put it this way:

stalin: 35-60 million annihilated in the gulags.

mao: 20-60 million 'bandits' liquidated in the 'cultural revolution'.

tell me again what's good about communism?
Sigh....I truly wish I had your phone number. You KNOW I'm a one finger typer and still you taunt me endlessly! Go to www.themilitant.com. Check out www.spartacistleague.com or google it. I have no access to alcohol right now and have no access to the amount of patience required by your baiting query.

See how long it took just for this!!!!

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 6:31 pm

David813 wrote: Sigh....I truly wish I had your phone number. You KNOW I'm a one finger typer and still you taunt me endlessly! Go to www.themilitant.com. Check out www.spartacistleague.com or google it. I have no access to alcohol right now and have no access to the amount of patience required by your baiting query.

See how long it took just for this!!!!
but how is stating facts like that baiting? it's historical fact. we know the extent of the horrors perpetrated by the two 'greatest' communist regimes that ever existed.

the US is a federal republic, with a strong tradition of democracy (sometimes too strong). there are large elements of socialist ideology at work even in our current system. i believe more of our ills are generated by those socialist elements of our social structure than by the capitalist, market-driven elements. you, certainly, disagree. i doubt i'll ever convince you. you'll certainly never convince me.

so, on to the glory of mother russia! it is a beautiful country, i definitely don't doubt a word brother scrat has written in that regard. someday i'd like to visit it. one of my cousins lived there for more than a decade as i recall. but he was a western businessman, looting the country after that bastard gorbachev decided to try freedom rather than repression.

:yh_whistl