Distasteful views

Lenn · Post by **Lenn** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:54 pm

One of the top hierarchs of the Catholic Church (Javier Lozano Barragan) has just stated that gays and lesbians won't get into the paradise and they will all end up in hell.

I must say it would be a real shocker for me, if I didn't know the general standpoint of catholic church in reference to the matter of sexual orientation.

I would like to know, how you feel while listening to such teachings, especially if you are catholic. I still want to believe that among roman catholics there are hundreds of peaceful human-beings. It seems interesting to me if, being a peaceful catholic, you feel comfortably with this hate speech coming from the mouth of a high priest. Have you ever considered joining one of the non-catholic christian churches, because of intolerant and hateful views maintained by the leaders of catholic community?

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:05 pm

the church has never been against homosexuality ..............I'ts been against men lying with men .....the actual sexual act of penetration on another man.

I was brought up strict Catholic and this is my understanding. funnily enough no mention of women lying with women unless you tke (unnatural sexual acts) into consideration. but one has to understand they are against lots of stuff in hetrosexual relationships like fellatio.

To my understanding it goes back to the Jewish (Israelite) meanings for health and cleanliness

Post by **spot** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:18 pm

I'm not sure why any self-respecting person, Catholic or not, would want to end up in heaven, given the sort of bigoted trash who are there already. It's almost a Christian obligation to end up in hell in order to damn the rulebook.

Or, of course, the Roman Catholic hierarchy are just plain wrong, in which case it's up to the laity to tell them so.

Hi Lenn, long time no see.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:22 pm

Hmmm I changed my religion to suit what I understood the bible to mean. I don't believe people go to heaven and I don't believe hell exists.............There you go . I'm saved all round.:yh_rotfl

along-for-the-ride · Post by **along-for-the-ride** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:22 pm

"One of the top hierarchs of the Catholic Church (Javier Lozano Barragan) has just stated that gays and lesbians won't get into the paradise and they will all end up in hell."

I'll bet the topic of Catholic priests who molest children and where they will end up was not mentioned by this hierarch.

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:29 pm

I believe in heaven, especially since I've died and seen the back of my own head as my body fell to the floor. I also believe in a Dantean Hell, but like Dante, I believe that Hell is just a last resort place for God to try to get people's attention. Learning to hate evil is one way to learnt to love God, so I believe it's possible to leave Hell.

As for this kind of intolerance, I always think of Jesus. He was the most loving tolerant man ever. He even stood up for a prostitute.

Religious or not, shouldn't we all strive for that kind of love and understanding?:o

Post by **spot** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:37 pm

Saint_;1268783 wrote: Religious or not, shouldn't we all strive for that kind of love and understanding?:o
Not, apparently, if you're responsible for maintaining and imposing the Roman Catholic rulebook.

AussiePam · Post by **AussiePam** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 5:00 pm

The Protestant rule books are pretty scary too. Six of one and half a dozen of the other. I mean just look at the some of the posts of a few of our extreme fundamentalist Christians in this Forum and ya gotta wonder.

I still maintain that religions - all of them - are constructs created by man, which give God a bad name. Hard really to see why God puts up with it. Maybe one day we'll find out. Maybe not.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 5:15 pm

what's really interesting is that I came from a strict Roman Catholic view to a protestant (fundamentalist view) .......

And my view is this ...........go back to where it all came from. I now, don't advocate strictly to either religions of my upbringing or chosen areas of belief.

I believe now that if you have faith ......and god never stipulated which faith...........EVER !!!!! All you have to do is believe the universe god stuff. and believe that there were some genuises in the old days that wrote stuff (prophesy aside) that even now we deal with and have advice for such.

I ask ....and he gives .....quite out of my own control................I can't be that bad of a sinner then. and I was taught that he knows what we need(not want ) before we even ask for it.

I don't pray ......I talk to him. Nice bloke really, because he never answers me back or criticizes. Just gives me a favour once an again:-6 I'm cool with that.

hoppy · Post by **hoppy** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:03 pm

Lenn;1268761 wrote: One of the top hierarchs of the A Church (Javier Lozano Barragan) has just stated that gays and lesbians won't get into the paradise and they will all end up in hell.

I must say it would be a real shocker for me, if I didn't know the general standpoint of A in reference to the matter of sexual orientation.

I would like to know, how you feel while listening to such teachings, especially if you are A. I still want to believe that among roman catholics there are hundreds of peaceful human-beings. It seems interesting to me if, being a peaceful catholic, you feel comfortably with this hate speech coming from the mouth of a high priest. Have you ever considered joining one of the non-catholic christian churches, because of intolerant and hateful views maintained by the leaders of catholic community?

So, what's the bible say on the subject of homosexuality? About the same thing. But it's all the Catholics fault, right?

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:09 pm

hoppy;1268835 wrote: So, what's the bible say on the subject of homosexuality? About the same thing. But it's all the Catholics fault, right?Catholics don't read and follow the Bible?

Post by **spot** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:15 pm

hoppy;1268835 wrote: So, what's the bible say on the subject of homosexuality? About the same thing. But it's all the Catholics fault, right?

it describes the attitude of society, and finally of Saint Paul, at various moments between 3000 and 2000 years ago. What does that have to do with the Catholic point of view in the 21st century?

hoppy · Post by **hoppy** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:22 pm

Many other churches are caving in to political correctness. The Catholic church is sticking to their guns. I applaud 'em for that.

hoppy · Post by **hoppy** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:33 pm

If political correctness dictates your religion, then Jesus sure had it all wrong.

Richard Bell · Post by **Richard Bell** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:11 pm

Lenn;1268761 wrote:

I would like to know, how you feel while listening to such teachings...

It's utter bollocks, like so much else that spews forth from the religious community.

hoppy · Post by **hoppy** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:59 pm

Catholics were beat up on last week. It outa be the Baptists or Methodists turn this week.

Bevdee · Post by **Bevdee** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:36 am

I think the churches, or religions preaching hate and intolerance are responsible for a lot of the problems individuals and societies have. As AussiePam said, religions are a construct of man. So is the bible, or any "holy" writing, and the religions are based on those.

How do you feel about the bible and churches teachings, or acceptance, of the bible's teachings on subjugation of women?

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:50 am

hoppy;1268877 wrote: Catholics were beat up on last week. It outa be the Baptists or Methodists turn this week.Thats what happens when an organization grows so large, Hoppy. Catholics wield a lot of power, but the other side is they are going to take a lot of criticism too. Thats the nature of it.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:56 am

Bevdee;1269030 wrote: I think the churches, or religions preaching hate and intolerance are responsible for a lot of the problems individuals and societies have. As AussiePam said, religions are a construct of man. So is the bible, or any "holy" writing, and the religions are based on those.

How do you feel about the bible and churches teachings, or acceptance, of the bible's teachings on subjugation of women?Happily we're growing out of that.

A coupe of weeks ago my daughter was married in a Catholic Church and it took all the persuasion I could muster to get her sisters to agree to bow their heads even slightly as they walked onto the alter for the ceremony. Man they put up some good arguments.

I was raised Catholic but stopped practicing it as soon as I was permitted to. Not that theres anything wrong with it, just not my cup of tea.

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:17 am

hoppy;1268842 wrote: Many other churches are caving in to political correctness. The Catholic church is sticking to their guns. I applaud 'em for that.

Unfortunately, that isn't all they are sticking.:rolleyes:

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:40 am

AussiePam;1268798 wrote: The Protestant rule books are pretty scary too. Six of one and half a dozen of the other. I mean just look at the some of the posts of a few of our extreme fundamentalist Christians in this Forum and ya gotta wonder.

I still maintain that religions - all of them - are constructs created by man, which give God a bad name. Hard really to see why God puts up with it. Maybe one day we'll find out. Maybe not.

I fail to see, given that they hold the primacy of the Old Testament over the word of Christ, that they can be considered to be Christian.

Post by **spot** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 1:57 pm

Bryn Mawr;1269056 wrote: I fail to see, given that they hold the primacy of the Old Testament over the word of Christ, that they can be considered to be Christian.

It's the not one jot or tittle get-out.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:10 am

spot;1269131 wrote: It's the not one jot or tittle get-out.

Regardless of whether his coming to fulfil the law means that the law was changed by his coming, he preached tolerance and forgiveness rather than and eye for an eye - I see no tolerance in, for example, Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell or the Westboro Baptists.