Let's Talk About Torture

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 1:46 am

Would you condone torturing a suspect that might have information that would save the life of either your spouse, child, mother, father, siblings?

Could you do the torturing yourself?

smithy87 · Post by **smithy87** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:12 am

Lon wrote: Would you condone torturing a suspect that might have information that would save the life of either your spouse, child, mother, father, siblings?

Could you do the torturing yourself?

If this suspect was directly involved and knew something that would save my the life of my child etc, then I would do everything in power to extract that information. If that including torturing then so be it...

If I did nothing and one of them died I could never live with myself

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:14 am

strange question, but yes i could. only in those circumstances however, it is ingrained in me to treat even the worst piece of garbage with decency.

abbey · Post by **abbey** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:15 am

Lon wrote: Would you condone torturing a suspect that might have information that would save the life of either your spouse, child, mother, father, siblings?

Could you do the torturing yourself?Difficult one this...:yh_think ..:yh_think..:yh_think..:yh_idea ...YES!

abbey · Post by **abbey** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:16 am

lady cop wrote: strange question, but yes i could. only in those circumstances however, it is ingrained in me to treat even the worst piece of garbage with decency.WELCOME HOME SPANDEX XX

Bothwell · Post by **Bothwell** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:24 am

What on earth would make you think that the info would be reliable. It very rarely is when torure is used. It is human nature to say whatever your tormentor wants you to say just to make them stop.

The most effective interrogations are those where the person the other side of the desk gets inside your head and you begin to empathise, that is when you start squealing.

weeder · Post by **weeder** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:24 am

Lon wrote: Would you condone torturing a suspect that might have information that would save the life of either your spouse, child, mother, father, siblings?

Could you do the torturing yourself?
I could torture someone mentally.. but not physically. I dont know if I could condone having someone else do it either. How far to the wall do we have to be driven to break our moral codes? I dont know. Ive never been to that place. Thank God.

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

What promted me to ask this question on torture has to do with the criticism presently directed at the U.S. and the C.I.A. in particular, about the torture of SUSPECTED terrorists. There are those that take the view that it's justified

because it could save lives due to the info obtained. When put on a very personal basis, these same critics would have a different view on torture I'm sure. It's well known now, that the U.S. is kidnapping suspects and shipping them to Egypt and other countries to be tortured if necessary.

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:33 am

Bothwell wrote: What on earth would make you think that the info would be reliable. It very rarely is when torure is used. It is human nature to say whatever your tormentor wants you to say just to make them stop.

The most effective interrogations are those where the person the other side of the desk gets inside your head and you begin to empathise, that is when you start squealing.
What on earth would make you think it's not reliable? Don't forget, the life of someone close to you is at stake.

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:40 am

Lon wrote: What on earth would make you think it's not reliable? Don't forget, the life of someone close to you is at stake.info gained under torture is NOT reliable. witness false "confessions" thoughout history. i know how to interrogate and what i glean is truth because the trick is to gain confidence and empathy.

Bothwell · Post by **Bothwell** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:41 am

It is human nature to say whatever your tormentor wants you to say just to make them stop

that is why.

I have alimited experience with this and can say that in my personal experience NO useful info was ever yielded by rough interrogation methods. However when the faceless ones in nice suits arrived and had a quiet chat over a cup of tea and free cigs things did start to happen. This is only my experience.

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:50 am

lady cop wrote: info gained under torture is NOT reliable. witness false "confessions" thoughout history. i know how to interrogate and what i glean is truth because the trick is to gain confidence and empathy.
Yes, but once you have the information it can be verified as to it's accuracy, right. And, are you saying that information obtained under torture is always 100% not reliable?

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:53 am

Lon wrote: Yes, but once you have the information it can be verified as to it's accuracy, right. And, are you saying that information obtained under torture is always 100% not reliable?yes, we have many false confessions...and must do the verification work. i would never rely on info gained from torture, hell, if someone was pulling out my fingernails i'd confess to killing JFK!

weeder · Post by **weeder** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:55 am

Lon wrote: What promted me to ask this question on torture has to do with the criticism presently directed at the U.S. and the C.I.A. in particular, about the torture of SUSPECTED terrorists. There are those that take the view that it's justified

because it could save lives due to the info obtained. When put on a very personal basis, these same critics would have a different view on torture I'm sure. It's well known now, that the U.S. is kidnapping suspects and shipping them to Egypt and other countries to be tortured if necessary.
I didnt know that.. If its true.. Im ashamed to know it now. If you turn a deed over to someone else.. Do you become less responsible? Its also cowardly. Perhaps this is why other places think it is acceptable for us to watch captives get shot in the head on television.I am so politically ignorant.

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:56 am

Bothwell wrote: that is why.

I have alimited experience with this and can say that in my personal experience NO useful info was ever yielded by rough interrogation methods. However when the faceless ones in nice suits arrived and had a quiet chat over a cup of tea and free cigs things did start to happen. This is only my experience.
I have no experience at all with torture, but you keep talking about suspects saying what the interrogator wants them to say.What if the suspects are just asked questions? Where is the child? Where did you hide the gun? Who was with you during the kidnapping? Etc. Etc

Peg · Post by **Peg** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 6:10 am

If someone had info on my child, you bet I would torture them and would have no problem whatsoever doing it myself. Once the info is checked out, the torture would get worse with each lie until the truth came out. Sorry, not usually a violent person, but I'm a mom and whatever it takes to save my children is what I am going to do.

David813 · Post by **David813** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 6:23 pm

Absolutely not. As a way of gathering information, no matter what the suspect/perpetrator has done, torture opens a dangerous door that puts our own soldiers and civilians in greater danger of getting the same treatment from our many new enemies. It would lower us to the level Uzbekistan, Myanmar and other countries are that deny human rights to their own people. We should finally say we are one of those countries as we now employ torture on POW's. We have no right to complain when it is used against us. This method, I've read, does not produce results and causes more problems when prisoners expect such treatment and don't comply or cooperate. As a government we should be out of this business. As a person would you lower yourself to the level of a torturer? I would hope I would have the strength to resist reacting with violence like a barbarian when in charge of POW's or common criminals.

hotsauce · Post by **hotsauce** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 6:31 pm

My first instict was to say...YES! After reading some posts...not so sure.

I think I would cut their fingers off one by one just to make myself feel better, If they had a family member, I would have to.

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 6:47 pm

David813 wrote: Absolutely not. As a way of gathering information, no matter what the suspect/perpetrator has done, torture opens a dangerous door that puts our own soldiers and civilians in greater danger of getting the same treatment from our many new enemies. It would lower us to the level Uzbekistan, Myanmar and other countries are that deny human rights to their own people. We should finally say we are one of those countries as we now employ torture on POW's. We have no right to complain when it is used against us. This method, I've read, does not produce results and causes more problems when prisoners expect such treatment and don't comply or cooperate. As a government we should be out of this business. As a person would you lower yourself to the level of a torturer? I would hope I would have the strength to resist reacting with violence like a barbarian when in charge of POW's or common criminals.
Most of the posters are skirting around my original question about their own family situation. Would you condone having someone tortured, or doing it yourself, if the only way to save your child, spouse or other family member was to try and extract information from them via torture?

David813 · Post by **David813** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 6:50 pm

Lon wrote: Most of the posters are skirting around my original question about their own family situation. Would you condone having someone tortured, or doing it yourself, if the only way to save your child, spouse or other family member was to try and extract information from them via torture?I misunderstood the question as well. I would threaten torture to someone who knew where a loved one was and they were in immediate peril. If they continued to refuse and there were no other options I would torture.

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 7:01 pm

David813 wrote: I misunderstood the question as well. I would threaten torture to someone who knew where a loved one was and they were in immediate peril. If they continued to refuse and there were no other options I would torture.
Why then is torture acceptable on a personal basis but not on a general basis where other lives MIGHT be saved by extracting info via torture.?

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 7:04 pm

Lon wrote: Why then is torture acceptable on a personal basis but not on a general basis where other lives MIGHT be saved by extracting info via torture.? i saw that coming a mile away Lon!

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 7:18 pm

hotsauce wrote: My first instict was to say...YES! After reading some posts...not so sure.

I think I would cut their fingers off one by one just to make myself feel better, If they had a family member, I would have to.
Why let others influence your thinking? Think for yourself.

David813 · Post by **David813** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 7:25 pm

Lon wrote: Why then is torture acceptable on a personal basis but not on a general basis where other lives MIGHT be saved by extracting info via torture.?I knew this was a trap. On a personal level it's me and the accused. On a government level it's a crime and dangerous. Who oversees who tortures and gets tortured? Where are the checks and balances? The examples list is a mile long at least when you look at torture nations and how quickly lesser crimes suddenly fall into a torture category. A government that condones and practices this barbarism as a system in a bureaucracy places it's own citizens and military (as I already said) in a very dangerous position. It legitimizes the tactics of the medieval world and on paper at least we as a country were past that. The US cannot even police it's own soldiers behavior with POW's. DNA evidence has exonerated dozens of people on our own death row. Does anyone believe a "Torture Department/Squad" will function or should in this so called democracy? If we go down this road ALL nations will look at us as an example and backwards we go as a human race.

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:47 pm

Bothwell wrote: The most effective interrogations are those where the person the other side of the desk gets inside your head and you begin to empathise, that is when you start squealing.

That's how I handle students that won't tell me what I want to know.

hotsauce · Post by **hotsauce** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:50 pm

Lon wrote: Why let others influence your thinking? Think for yourself.
ummmm do think for myself...but not so stubborn that i can't listen to what other people say.

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:53 pm

David813 wrote: I knew this was a trap. On a personal level it's me and the accused. On a government level it's a crime and dangerous. Who oversees who tortures and gets tortured? Where are the checks and balances? The examples list is a mile long at least when you look at torture nations and how quickly lesser crimes suddenly fall into a torture category.

Good point, on the other hand, Indonesia canes people for vandalism and it's almost nonexistant in their country.

on paper at least we as a country were past that.

Did I just see David813 supporting the Constitution?! (jives rubs his eyes) I did see it!!

If we go down this road ALL nations will look at us as an example and backwards we go as a human race.

Well said, David!!!:D You and I agree for once! How refreshing!

jahamaa · Post by **jahamaa** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:48 pm

Peg wrote: If someone had info on my child, you bet I would torture them and would have no problem whatsoever doing it myself. Once the info is checked out, the torture would get worse with each lie until the truth came out. Sorry, not usually a violent person, but I'm a mom and whatever it takes to save my children is what I am going to do.
Knowing it would get me thrown into hell.... to save my kid... damn straight, and without mercy.