Yet another child caught falling from a balcony

Post by **spot** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:49 am

From the fourth floor, this time. Whoever designs railings round apartment balconies really ought to measure a one-year-old toddler sometime.Ms Beard, of Worksop, was at the pool at Orlando's Econo Lodge hotel when she saw the baby hanging from the railing and ran underneath, she said.

She held the child until emergency medical workers arrived. The baby was taken to hospital, where medical staff said they saw no bruises or scratches and deemed her in good health.

BBC News - Florida balcony fall baby saved by British tourist

Well held, Ms Beard of Worksop. That's a startling circumstance to suddenly have to get things exactly right with no practice.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:17 am

Maybe they are American railings ,designed for American sized people, and not for thinner tourist types ?

Kathy Ellen · Post by **Kathy Ellen** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:04 am

Bruv;1358006 wrote: Maybe they are American railings ,designed for American sized people, and not for thinner tourist types ?

Guess I don't get your sense of humor:p

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:05 am

balcony's are hazardous to kids, whether they slip through the railings or over......makes me wonder where the parents are.

Post by **spot** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:34 am

Odie;1358012 wrote: balcony's are hazardous to kids, whether they slip through the railings or over......makes me wonder where the parents are.

The article did make that fairly clear, I thought. "Helena Myles, Jah-Nea's 20-year-old mother, told police her friend Dominique Holt had been watching the baby in the adjacent hotel room. Ms Holt, 21, said she went to the bathroom about 2100 local time (0100 GMT), then heard screaming and saw the balcony door ajar" - it would be hard to see how anyone could take exception to that, on the face of it.

The railings appear to be close-knit - I attach a photo from a lower floor of the same hotel but the rails are the same higher up. Perhaps there's space to crawl under? It would be an adventurous toddler who managed to vault that rail, even with a run-up.

Attached files

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:09 am

Bruv;1358006 wrote: Maybe they are American railings ,designed for American sized people, and not for thinner tourist types ?

Um right. We call them terrorist traps instead of tourist traps. Ever see a fat terrorist?

Kathy Ellen · Post by **Kathy Ellen** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:17 am

YZGI;1358017 wrote: Um right. We call them terrorist traps instead of tourist traps. Ever see a fat terrorist?

Good one Yzgi:yh_rotfl...Nice to see you:-6

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:56 am

spot;1358014 wrote: The article did make that fairly clear, I thought. "Helena Myles, Jah-Nea's 20-year-old mother, told police her friend Dominique Holt had been watching the baby in the adjacent hotel room. Ms Holt, 21, said she went to the bathroom about 2100 local time (0100 GMT), then heard screaming and saw the balcony door ajar" - it would be hard to see how anyone could take exception to that, on the face of it.

The railings appear to be close-knit - I attach a photo from a lower floor of the same hotel but the rails are the same higher up. Perhaps there's space to crawl under? It would be an adventurous toddler who managed to vault that rail, even with a run-up.

that seems to close-knit for a 16 month old toddler to squeeze through, hmmmmmm

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:43 pm

I can't watch the news - there's a daily drowning - as the weather heats up - today was 90 degrees

4 children have drown already.

Not trying to throw your thread - it's still all a safety issue. like watching your kids...

Some people have more protection for their vehicle than their children

Patsy

Post by **spot** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:36 am

It's startling, Patsy. Perhaps you have more sunshine than we do, but you also have three times the rate of drownings as England. Four a day is the national average for the US, your TV channels are obsessive if they report each and every one of them.

http://wisqars.cdc.gov:8080/cdcMapFrame ... erface.jsp shows where they happen.

Over a hundred a year are in domestic baths.

mikeinie · Post by **mikeinie** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:49 am

As a parent of 3 kids, I never would have gone off to a bathroom or anywhere without ensure my 1 year old was not wondering around freely, and especially if there was a balcony door open. I agree with odie, the mother should have been taking care of her child.

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:15 am

We have daily sunshine - I miss led - We've had 4 drowning deaths this year. That's one a month. Near drownings are frequent and the out come from most are not good.

School is letting out soon - Summer is here.

It's daily - I seriously can not watch our news.

I told my husband - these young mother's & all need to be educated - classes for all those who own a swimming pool.

Kids are curious and nothing stops them. Not sure what the solution is - something has to be done.

It'll probably come down to Prosecuting.?

It's very upsetting and the excuses are just as upsetting to hear.

Patsy

Post by **spot** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:32 am

I'm of the opinion that children are too important to be left to the care of their parents, they should all be handed to expert full-time professionals at birth.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:14 pm

Patsy Warnick;1358271 wrote: We have daily sunshine - I miss led - We've had 4 drowning deaths this year. That's one a month. Near drownings are frequent and the out come from most are not good.

School is letting out soon - Summer is here.

It's daily - I seriously can not watch our news.

I told my husband - these young mother's & all need to be educated - classes for all those who own a swimming pool.

Kids are curious and nothing stops them. Not sure what the solution is - something has to be done.

It'll probably come down to Prosecuting.?

It's very upsetting and the excuses are just as upsetting to hear.

Patsy

Toronto has at least 10 per season yearly and the excuses like you just said are overwhelming.

It's not hard to take care of one's child, be with them at all times, hold their hand when out anywhere, when near any water, make sure they have a life jacket on.

shocked to see so many leave their kids in a pool in their own backyard.

Post by **spot** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:23 pm

You'd make children have a life jacket on in a pool in their own backyard, Odie? I'm not sure I've seen anyone ever do that.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:40 pm

spot;1358284 wrote: You'd make children have a life jacket on in a pool in their own backyard, Odie? I'm not sure I've seen anyone ever do that.

thousands do spot, anything can arise with toddlers.

and especially near a dock........it just takes one second.

.

Post by **spot** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:45 pm

Odie;1358289 wrote: thousands do spot, anything can arise with toddlers.

and especially near a dock........it just takes one second.

People have backyards near docks??

I don't think you managed to read what I wrote, let's do it a second time and you can focus on the words: You'd make children have a life jacket on in a pool in their own backyard, Odie? I'm not sure I've seen anyone ever do that.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:53 pm

spot;1358290 wrote: People have backyards near docks??

I don't think you managed to read what I wrote, let's do it a second time and you can focus on the words: You'd make children have a life jacket on in a pool in their own backyard, Odie? I'm not sure I've seen anyone ever do that.

yes, I do make children wear a life jacket, I have an above ground pool in my backyard and they either wear one or they don't come in.

One couple that comes over with their kids who know how to swim and are ages 8 and 10, their parents insist they wear them.

I really don't think you realize just how fast something can happen, perhaps try googling kids who have drowned in their own backyard pool........then maybe we can talk.

Post by **spot** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:19 pm

I think perhaps we've just encountered another instance of English words meaning different things on different continents. I wonder whether you could point to an online picture of a life jacket of the sort you're discussing?

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:47 pm

At the very least children should wear those floaty's

usually on arms and around the waist to keep them afloat.

Most of the drownings are" just lost sight of the child". Some thought the child was napping. Some thought other family members were watching the child. Some just went to answer the phone. and on and on..

Unfortunately with drownings on the News daily - it doesn't seem to teach others.

Patsy

Post by **spot** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:14 pm

Patsy Warnick;1358297 wrote: At the very least children should wear those floaty's

usually on arms and around the waist to keep them afloat.We might be getting to the bottom of why there's three times the rate of people drowning in the US compared to England - perhaps those in the US never manage to learn to swim, if they've got "floaties" on. That would explain a lot.

If we're talking about buoyancy aids then I can, I suppose, imagine them in a backyard setting. Life jackets though? Seriously?

I have six of them in the house and they take up a great deal of space. Nobody in their right mind would climb into a backyard pool wearing one, not at any age.

Here are some fair examples.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:26 pm

Patsy Warnick;1358297 wrote: At the very least children should wear those floaty's

usually on arms and around the waist to keep them afloat.

Most of the drownings are" just lost sight of the child". Some thought the child was napping. Some thought other family members were watching the child. Some just went to answer the phone. and on and on..

Unfortunately with drownings on the News daily - it doesn't seem to teach others.

Patsy

exactly, some thought......to many excuses.

these are what the kids wear here, we even have them for dogs.

click on them

Attached files

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:28 pm

I've never seen a child in their pool wearing a life jacket - at a lake/river etc. yes.

yes, buoyancy aids for kids.

learning to swim would be the responsibility of the parent and the parent should know how to swim also..!

It's just a dangerous scenario and comes right down to watching you child at all times.

Patsy

Post by **spot** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:33 pm

Odie;1358303 wrote: these are what the kids wear here, we even have them for dogs.

click on them

And you don't let children into your backyard unless they have one of those on??

I find that incredible.

Post by **spot** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:35 pm

Patsy Warnick;1358304 wrote: learning to swim would be the responsibility of the parent and the parent should know how to swim also..!

That could be partly the difference. Schools set aside time for swimming lessons in England.

eta: Here's a national statement of school swimming policy in England and Wales. You'll see it's an obligation on all schools at Key Stage 2.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:28 am

Patsy Warnick;1358304 wrote: I've never seen a child in their pool wearing a life jacket - at a lake/river etc. yes.

yes, buoyancy aids for kids.

learning to swim would be the responsibility of the parent and the parent should know how to swim also..!

It's just a dangerous scenario and comes right down to watching you child at all times.

Patsy

they can swim, it's for their own safety.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:01 am

spot;1358299 wrote:

Nobody in their right mind would climb into a backyard pool wearing one, not at any age.

that is why there are so many drownings in back yard pools.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reduce the risk of drowning

Here are tips offered by the Lifesaving Society and others:

* Take a lifesaving course and learn how to reduce the risk of drowning, as well as what to do if something goes wrong. At a minimum, make sure everyone in your family can achieve the Canadian Swim to Survive standard (which is designed to teach the minimal skills necessary to survive an unexpected fall into deep water.)

* When boating, always wear a life jacket or personal flotation device and avoid all alcohol.

* Always closely supervise children; keep young children within arms’ reach and whenever possible, choose to swim in an area supervised by a lifeguard. 'Toddlers should wear lifejackets whenever they are near water'.

Post by **spot** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:34 am

Odie;1358319 wrote: [QUOTE=spot][QUOTE=Odie]yes, I do make children wear a life jacket, I have an above ground pool in my backyard and they either wear one or they don't come in.Nobody in their right mind would climb into a backyard pool wearing one, not at any age.[/QUOTE]that is why there are so many drownings in back yard pools.[/QUOTE]As I said earlier, I don't believe a word of what you've claimed. The idea that you haven't let children into your backyard unless they wear a lifejacket of the sort you've pictured is beyond belief. Nobody could be that demented.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:38 am

spot;1358325 wrote: As I said earlier, I don't believe a word of what you've claimed. The idea that you haven't let children into your backyard unless they wear a lifejacket of the sort you've pictured on is beyond belief. Nobody could be that demented.

demented am I, perhaps you need to learn a thing or two about water safety for toddlers......read what I inserted on my previous post.

Post by **spot** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:57 am

Odie;1358327 wrote: perhaps you should read what I just inserted in my post spot.

So... let me get this right. You're now claiming that all this about life-jackets in backyard pools applies just to toddlers, not to children in general as in, say, anyone up to the age of 15? That I'm quite right to disbelieve the "I do make children wear a life jacket" bit, because it actually means I do make toddlers wear a life jacket?

I'd put an inflated ring round a toddlers chest or on each arm in any pool if it made them feel safer, more to the point I'd get in with them and not give them a moment near the water without having my eye constantly fixed on them. But that's toddlers for you, the same attention would apply wherever they were and I'm still amazed you'd wrap one in a life jacket in the English sense of the word - I still think you mean buoyancy aid.

In practice, teaching children to swim without inflated assistance at mother-and-baby supervised lessons is far the best approach. That way they can swim before they can talk.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:30 pm

Lifejackets around a swimming pool

There are many personal flotation devices on the market. Many of them have fun designs and are appealing to kids but most are not safe to use as a flotation device. Pool arm floats and blow up rings are wonderful tools to be used with immediate parental supervision but they will not keep a toddler afloat in an emergency. Arm floats can easily slide off tiny toddler arms and blow up rings can tip over and hold the child under water.

Parents of toddlers should purchase a toddler sized life jacket that is an approved flotation device. Toddlers under 30 pounds should wear a life jacket with a flotation collar to keep their head above water. Life jackets should worn by toddlers both in the pool and while playing out of the water near a pool in case they fall in. Life jackets are not a substitute for direct supervision.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:35 pm

Safe Kids Canada recommends parents follow these five layers of protection to keep children safe from drowning.

Adult supervision

Almost half of all child drownings happen in 'backyard swimming pools.' Research shows that proper pool fencing could prevent seven out of 10 drownings to children under five years of age. Most backyard pool fences only go around three sides of the pool. This means that children can still reach the pool right from the house.

Most children who have drowned in backyard pools fell into the water during a short time when their parents or caregivers were not watching them. Children drown quickly and quietly. A parent inside the house may not hear their child go out the back door of the house, slip into the water, and drown.

Safe pool fencing is designed so that children cannot climb over or under it. Pool fencing should be at least 1.2 metres high (four feet) and have a self-closing, self-latching gate.

Lifejackets

Young children under five years of age and weak swimmers should wear lifejackets when they are in, on or around the water. You and your child should always wear lifejackets when riding in a boat.

Nine out of 10 boaters who drown in Canada were not wearing lifejackets when they drowned. Wearing a lifejacket also sets a good example for children.

Post by **spot** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:24 pm

One of us is being sensible, Odie, and the other's telling porkies.

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:49 pm

I have a pool - I live in the desert where nearly every home has a pool.

Safety is first for all.

I have never seen a child with a safety jacket on to swim in a residence pool.

Guest either know how to swim or they don't get in....

those are my rules - it's my liability

Patsy

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:09 am

spot;1358003 wrote: From the fourth floor, this time. Whoever designs railings round apartment balconies really ought to measure a one-year-old toddler sometime.Ms Beard, of Worksop, was at the pool at Orlando's Econo Lodge hotel when she saw the baby hanging from the railing and ran underneath, she said.

She held the child until emergency medical workers arrived. The baby was taken to hospital, where medical staff said they saw no bruises or scratches and deemed her in good health.

BBC News - Florida balcony fall baby saved by British tourist

Well held, Ms Beard of Worksop. That's a startling circumstance to suddenly have to get things exactly right with no practice.

Is this Obamas fault?

Post by **spot** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 4:35 am

Nomad;1358365 wrote: Is this Obamas fault?

No, this one turned out okay so it's not down to him. The storms in Alabama are his fault.

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Mon May 02, 2011 10:13 pm

another drowning today - 2 yr old.

should I just go to this thread & keep track of the summer?

very sad

Patsy

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Mon May 02, 2011 11:17 pm

Patsy Warnick;1358620 wrote: another drowning today - 2 yr old.

should I just go to this thread & keep track of the summer?

very sad

Patsy

tragic, how very sad when it could have been prevented.

Post by **spot** » Tue May 03, 2011 3:05 am

Patsy Warnick;1358620 wrote: another drowning today - 2 yr old.

should I just go to this thread & keep track of the summer?

very sad

Patsy

You're mentioning about 2% at the moment, if you cover all of them you'll be noting around thirty each week. Ten of those on average, each and every week, are in backyards and all ten could be prevented by close adult supervision. The cobblers talked in this thread about life jackets is an irrelevant distraction. Close adult supervision is the answer. If everyone handed out life jackets and said right, my work here is done, I need not watch, drownings would go through the roof.

I gave you a useful hook a few posts ago, Patsy, about school policy to teach children during school hours. Do you think a higher proportion of children able to swim is a safety measure or an invitation to dangerous activity? Should children be avoiding water or becoming more familiar with it? Or are you restricting yourself to just toddlers like Odie is? Here's the quote:

spot wrote: Here's a national statement of school swimming policy in England and Wales. You'll see it's an obligation on all schools at Key Stage 2.

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Tue May 03, 2011 10:26 pm

10:00 P.M. News

another drowning - that's 2 today..! As I mentioned I hate listening to the news - it's every day..

Spot

Most of these drownings are due to the Parent/Guardian have lost track of the child - when they find the child it's usually too late. and if the child survives, well it's not living. terrible existance.

Most of the children have not been thru any swim class - most the the children are @ 2-3 and up to 8 yrs.

The the notorious 2 's where the child is walking & motors quickly.

Parents move into a nice home with a built in pool (desert area) and they just can't / don't see the danger in the water. And perhaps some were not even pregnant when the home was purchased. put a leash on the kid - do some thing.

Not sure what the solution is to remedy this epidemic. makes me sick & tired of crying over the news.

2 toddlers today - as I stated before, officials will start to prosecute the parent.

Odie is referring to company over at her pool - I say do what your comfortable with - having others in your pool is a liability a risk no one needs. I don't let any one in my pool unless you can swim & then it's risky - but I live where my weather will be 120 degrees in June and I do share my pool.

Any suggestions are welcome - we have several children drowning daily.

Thanks Spot

Patsy

Post by **spot** » Wed May 04, 2011 1:55 am

I have a solution for anyone in that position. Backfill the pool with clean sand and use it as extra garden space. Don't leave it empty to fall into, don't leave it full of water to drown children in.

Solved? Nothing less will fix it.

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Wed May 04, 2011 10:12 pm

10:00 P.M. News another child drowns May 4, 2011

Patsy

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Wed May 04, 2011 11:17 pm

Patsy Warnick;1358830 wrote: 10:00 P.M. News another child drowns May 4, 2011

Patsy

what are the statistics, one a day now?

just so tragic.

if only they had worn these...........

Attached files

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Mon May 09, 2011 4:11 pm

Another toddler downs today May 9, 2011.

how sad

Patsy

Post by **spot** » Mon May 09, 2011 4:28 pm

May we have a link, Patsy? Was it being closely supervised?

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Mon May 09, 2011 4:48 pm

This child was 2 yrs. old little boy - he had been missing for @ 1/2 hour. The boy was pronounced dead at the scene.

The pool was not maintained and the existing water was dark green & they didn't see the toddler in the yuk mud junk..

Local news KTVK news channel 3.

Happy Mother's Day HUH..!

This year may be record breaking for drownings - as I stated before the only choice left is to prosecute for negligence.

Patsy

Post by **spot** » Mon May 09, 2011 5:13 pm

So the pool was a disaster waiting to happen then, green scum or not.

I gave the best answer some posts ago. Fill the damn things in if there's any chance an unskilled child might ever get to it. If you want to keep the pool, invest in an electric fence and some Alsatians to patrol the grounds. Nobody can possibly keep a toddler under continual guard, year in year out.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Mon May 09, 2011 5:25 pm

Patsy Warnick;1359175 wrote: Another toddler downs today May 9, 2011.

how sad

Patsy

what happened Patsy?

Post by **spot** » Mon May 09, 2011 5:35 pm

Odie;1359183 wrote: what happened Patsy?

A two year old went onto the patio without wearing a life jacket, odie.

Perhaps you think toddlers in houses with pools should be sewn into life jackets at breakfast.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Mon May 09, 2011 5:39 pm

Patsy Warnick;1359179 wrote: This child was 2 yrs. old little boy - he had been missing for @ 1/2 hour. The boy was pronounced dead at the scene.

The pool was not maintained and the existing water was dark green & they didn't see the toddler in the yuk mud junk..

Local news KTVK news channel 3.

Happy Mother's Day HUH..!

This year may be record breaking for drownings - as I stated before the only choice left is to prosecute for negligence.

Patsy

good grief....who would leave their child like that?

again, parents were not looking out for him....how sad.