I note that the IPCC has decided not to discipline any officer in connection with the death of reggae singer Smiley Culture. There were, it would seem, no witnesses to the death other than police officers. The old rule of believing police statements seems to have been applied once again.
Smiley Culture stabbed himself through the heart with no assistance at all using a kitchen knife while in police custody. And pigs might fly.
I have a proposal, just to help police officers retain credibility after this sort of outrageous farce. No police officer should ever be on duty again without carrying, attached to his lapel, a minimal-weight video and sound recorder which can't be turned off by the officer or subsequently "lost".
Then we might get believable tales from these inveterate lying scum when complaints are made to the IPCC.
BBC News - No IPCC action over Smiley Culture raid death
Police accountability
Police accountability
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31842
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Police accountability
spot;1367901 wrote: I note that the IPCC has decided not to discipline any officer in connection with the death of reggae singer Smiley Culture. There were, it would seem, no witnesses to the death other than police officers. The old rule of believing police statements seems to have been applied once again.
Smiley Culture stabbed himself through the heart with no assistance at all using a kitchen knife while in police custody. And pigs might fly.
I have a proposal, just to help police officers retain credibility after this sort of outrageous farce. No police officer should ever be on duty again without carrying, attached to his lapel, a minimal-weight video and sound recorder which can't be turned off by the officer or subsequently "lost".
Then we might get believable tales from these inveterate lying scum when complaints are made to the IPCC.
BBC News - No IPCC action over Smiley Culture raid death
That's a very good Idea.
I'd also welcome all phone calls being made only from a police station with every call being recorded that they also can not tamper with, and not from their mobile phones. It would mean more of them behind a desk but then the true extent of lie's and bullying defence witness's could come to light.
Also when gathering statements for the prosecution especially with children without their parents present, the video's would record every word said to them. Any statement taken from an under 17 year old without the knowledge of his mother should be recorded.
Smiley Culture stabbed himself through the heart with no assistance at all using a kitchen knife while in police custody. And pigs might fly.
I have a proposal, just to help police officers retain credibility after this sort of outrageous farce. No police officer should ever be on duty again without carrying, attached to his lapel, a minimal-weight video and sound recorder which can't be turned off by the officer or subsequently "lost".
Then we might get believable tales from these inveterate lying scum when complaints are made to the IPCC.
BBC News - No IPCC action over Smiley Culture raid death
That's a very good Idea.
I'd also welcome all phone calls being made only from a police station with every call being recorded that they also can not tamper with, and not from their mobile phones. It would mean more of them behind a desk but then the true extent of lie's and bullying defence witness's could come to light.
Also when gathering statements for the prosecution especially with children without their parents present, the video's would record every word said to them. Any statement taken from an under 17 year old without the knowledge of his mother should be recorded.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
-
chonsigirl
- Posts: 33633
- Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:28 am
Police accountability
That is a horrible finding, he could not have died the way they said. And no fingerprints, how could they not say this was suspicious?
Police accountability
I read all of the related articles in the initial link and all of it says the exact same thing. No mention of how long of a prison term the singer faced which might explain suicide, nothing. Only "He had been due to face trial accused of conspiracy to supply cocaine". Nothing detailing who the man was as a person. Who was he? Someone connected with drug cartels or a nice guy that liked to have some fun with cocaine?
"Smiley Culture - real name David Emmanuel - stabbed himself while making a cup of tea, his family were told." is quite a stretch I agree and "The IPCC said no fingerprints were found on the hilt of the knife embedded in his chest, but the singer's DNA was present." I don't know if it's too early but this statement leaves me speechless
None the less I don't find it to be unreasonable to see someone commit suicide facing a lengthy prison sentence. How long would he have served?
There's also alot of possibilities, why would it be unreasonable for a person to commit suicide in such a circumstance? What exactly was found in the raid?
"Smiley Culture - real name David Emmanuel - stabbed himself while making a cup of tea, his family were told." is quite a stretch I agree and "The IPCC said no fingerprints were found on the hilt of the knife embedded in his chest, but the singer's DNA was present." I don't know if it's too early but this statement leaves me speechless
None the less I don't find it to be unreasonable to see someone commit suicide facing a lengthy prison sentence. How long would he have served?
There's also alot of possibilities, why would it be unreasonable for a person to commit suicide in such a circumstance? What exactly was found in the raid?
-
jones jones
- Posts: 6601
- Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:30 am
Police accountability
“inveterate lying scum …”
Typical leftist rhetoric. You know nothing of what happened to this man except what you have been fed by those who look upon “control” as being an abuse of their rights. Were you present when he died? Did you personally witness a police officer stabbing him? I would guess a “no” to both the questions. Yet you have the audacity to call the police inveterate lying scum. I guess you never watched the recent riots in England.
“a nice guy that liked to have some fun with cocaine?” Are you serious Snyder? Nice guys have fun with cocaine? So you are in favor of the use of cocaine are you?
Fun with cocaine can lead to heart failure, high-blood pressure, rapidly increased heart rate, aggressive attitude, loss of appetite, violent behavior, tremors, vertigo, loss of balance, cold sweat, rapid irregular shallow breathing, risk of convulsions, coma, nausea, vomiting, depression, suicidal thoughts/feelings, respiratory failure, blood vessel blockage, brain hemorrhage … not to mention the big hole it makes in the user’s nose.
Typical leftist rhetoric. You know nothing of what happened to this man except what you have been fed by those who look upon “control” as being an abuse of their rights. Were you present when he died? Did you personally witness a police officer stabbing him? I would guess a “no” to both the questions. Yet you have the audacity to call the police inveterate lying scum. I guess you never watched the recent riots in England.
“a nice guy that liked to have some fun with cocaine?” Are you serious Snyder? Nice guys have fun with cocaine? So you are in favor of the use of cocaine are you?
Fun with cocaine can lead to heart failure, high-blood pressure, rapidly increased heart rate, aggressive attitude, loss of appetite, violent behavior, tremors, vertigo, loss of balance, cold sweat, rapid irregular shallow breathing, risk of convulsions, coma, nausea, vomiting, depression, suicidal thoughts/feelings, respiratory failure, blood vessel blockage, brain hemorrhage … not to mention the big hole it makes in the user’s nose.
"…I hate how I don’t feel real enough unless people are watching." — Chuck Palahniuk, Invisible Monsters
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31842
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Police accountability
jones jones;1367911 wrote: “inveterate lying scum …”
Typical leftist rhetoric. You know nothing of what happened to this man except what you have been fed by those who look upon “control” as being an abuse of their rights. Were you present when he died? Did you personally witness a police officer stabbing him? I would guess a “no” to both the questions. Yet you have the audacity to call the police inveterate lying scum. I guess you never watched the recent riots in England.
“a nice guy that liked to have some fun with cocaine?” Are you serious Snyder? Nice guys have fun with cocaine? So you are in favor of the use of cocaine are you?
Fun with cocaine can lead to heart failure, high-blood pressure, rapidly increased heart rate, aggressive attitude, loss of appetite, violent behavior, tremors, vertigo, loss of balance, cold sweat, rapid irregular shallow breathing, risk of convulsions, coma, nausea, vomiting, depression, suicidal thoughts/feelings, respiratory failure, blood vessel blockage, brain hemorrhage … not to mention the big hole it makes in the user’s nose. Jones... You are In the USA..... A little more research Into our police would lead you to the same conclusion as Spot's.
Typical leftist rhetoric. You know nothing of what happened to this man except what you have been fed by those who look upon “control” as being an abuse of their rights. Were you present when he died? Did you personally witness a police officer stabbing him? I would guess a “no” to both the questions. Yet you have the audacity to call the police inveterate lying scum. I guess you never watched the recent riots in England.
“a nice guy that liked to have some fun with cocaine?” Are you serious Snyder? Nice guys have fun with cocaine? So you are in favor of the use of cocaine are you?
Fun with cocaine can lead to heart failure, high-blood pressure, rapidly increased heart rate, aggressive attitude, loss of appetite, violent behavior, tremors, vertigo, loss of balance, cold sweat, rapid irregular shallow breathing, risk of convulsions, coma, nausea, vomiting, depression, suicidal thoughts/feelings, respiratory failure, blood vessel blockage, brain hemorrhage … not to mention the big hole it makes in the user’s nose. Jones... You are In the USA..... A little more research Into our police would lead you to the same conclusion as Spot's.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Police accountability
Sorry I disagree with everybody.............................
I object to the use of the words 'inveterate lying scum' because while lying and a level of 'back minding' is involved the scum part goes too far.
I cannot see anybody knifing themselves to death, due to any forth coming drug trial, that makes no sense at all.
The recent riots have nothing to do with this incident, it happened some time before them. How can they be associated ?
It is an unsatisfying result, but I predict it is not the last we have heard of the the events that resulted in his death.
I object to the use of the words 'inveterate lying scum' because while lying and a level of 'back minding' is involved the scum part goes too far.
I cannot see anybody knifing themselves to death, due to any forth coming drug trial, that makes no sense at all.
The recent riots have nothing to do with this incident, it happened some time before them. How can they be associated ?
It is an unsatisfying result, but I predict it is not the last we have heard of the the events that resulted in his death.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Police accountability
jones jones;1367911 wrote: “inveterate lying scum …”
Typical leftist rhetoric. You know nothing of what happened to this man except what you have been fed by those who look upon “control” as being an abuse of their rights. Were you present when he died? Did you personally witness a police officer stabbing him? I would guess a “no” to both the questions. Yet you have the audacity to call the police inveterate lying scum. I guess you never watched the recent riots in England.
“a nice guy that liked to have some fun with cocaine?” Are you serious Snyder? Nice guys have fun with cocaine? So you are in favor of the use of cocaine are you?
Fun with cocaine can lead to heart failure, high-blood pressure, rapidly increased heart rate, aggressive attitude, loss of appetite, violent behavior, tremors, vertigo, loss of balance, cold sweat, rapid irregular shallow breathing, risk of convulsions, coma, nausea, vomiting, depression, suicidal thoughts/feelings, respiratory failure, blood vessel blockage, brain hemorrhage … not to mention the big hole it makes in the user’s nose.And who are you jones, the be all and end all of drug use?
How do you get "can lead to" out of what I said. Where does "can lead to" coincide with "some fun with cocaine"?
What you've described is nothing different than a number of visits to McDonalds.
You've never had fun with alcohol? Alcohol is proven to cause far more damage to society than cocaine has yet you're suggesting you've never had a drink? Or at the very least based off of your reasoning then you more than feel alcohol should be illegal and I'll settle for your verifying that bit of truth.
Typical leftist rhetoric. You know nothing of what happened to this man except what you have been fed by those who look upon “control” as being an abuse of their rights. Were you present when he died? Did you personally witness a police officer stabbing him? I would guess a “no” to both the questions. Yet you have the audacity to call the police inveterate lying scum. I guess you never watched the recent riots in England.
“a nice guy that liked to have some fun with cocaine?” Are you serious Snyder? Nice guys have fun with cocaine? So you are in favor of the use of cocaine are you?
Fun with cocaine can lead to heart failure, high-blood pressure, rapidly increased heart rate, aggressive attitude, loss of appetite, violent behavior, tremors, vertigo, loss of balance, cold sweat, rapid irregular shallow breathing, risk of convulsions, coma, nausea, vomiting, depression, suicidal thoughts/feelings, respiratory failure, blood vessel blockage, brain hemorrhage … not to mention the big hole it makes in the user’s nose.And who are you jones, the be all and end all of drug use?
How do you get "can lead to" out of what I said. Where does "can lead to" coincide with "some fun with cocaine"?
What you've described is nothing different than a number of visits to McDonalds.
You've never had fun with alcohol? Alcohol is proven to cause far more damage to society than cocaine has yet you're suggesting you've never had a drink? Or at the very least based off of your reasoning then you more than feel alcohol should be illegal and I'll settle for your verifying that bit of truth.
-
jones jones
- Posts: 6601
- Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:30 am
Police accountability
K.Snyder;1367923 wrote: And who are you jones, the be all and end all of drug use?
How do you get "can lead to" out of what I said. Where does "can lead to" coincide with "some fun with cocaine"?
What you've described is nothing different than a number of visits to McDonalds.
You've never had fun with alcohol? Alcohol is proven to cause far more damage to society than cocaine has yet you're suggesting you've never had a drink? Or at the very least based off of your reasoning then you more than feel alcohol should be illegal and I'll settle for your verifying that bit of truth.
I am not an expert on drug use and abuse, just an earthling who has "been there, done that, got the tee-shirt." Sure eating too many Big Macs can be bad for you, but eating burgers wasn't illegal last time I looked.
"Having some fun with coke" isn't too clever as there is no "safe" frequency of use for cocaine. It's impossible to predict whether any person will become physically or psychologically dependent on this drug and even occasional users run the risk of sudden death with cocaine use. In addition cocaine is responsible for more U.S. emergency room visits than any other illegal drug.
How do you get "can lead to" out of what I said. Where does "can lead to" coincide with "some fun with cocaine"?
What you've described is nothing different than a number of visits to McDonalds.
You've never had fun with alcohol? Alcohol is proven to cause far more damage to society than cocaine has yet you're suggesting you've never had a drink? Or at the very least based off of your reasoning then you more than feel alcohol should be illegal and I'll settle for your verifying that bit of truth.
I am not an expert on drug use and abuse, just an earthling who has "been there, done that, got the tee-shirt." Sure eating too many Big Macs can be bad for you, but eating burgers wasn't illegal last time I looked.
"Having some fun with coke" isn't too clever as there is no "safe" frequency of use for cocaine. It's impossible to predict whether any person will become physically or psychologically dependent on this drug and even occasional users run the risk of sudden death with cocaine use. In addition cocaine is responsible for more U.S. emergency room visits than any other illegal drug.
"…I hate how I don’t feel real enough unless people are watching." — Chuck Palahniuk, Invisible Monsters
Police accountability
jones jones;1367924 wrote: I am not an expert on drug use and abuse, just an earthling who has "been there, done that, got the tee-shirt." Sure eating too many Big Macs can be bad for you, but eating burgers wasn't illegal last time I looked.
"Having some fun with coke" isn't too clever as there is no "safe" frequency of use for cocaine. It's impossible to predict whether any person will become physically or psychologically dependent on this drug and even occasional users run the risk of sudden death with cocaine use. In addition cocaine is responsible for more U.S. emergency room visits than any other illegal drug.You'd not answered my question. You've never had fun with alcohol?
And again, what does "occasional users" have any length of measurement to do with Smiley culture and "nice guy having fun with cocaine"? You're dreaming up story lines to fit your argument and it's wasting my time.
You claimed to know that it's impossible to have fun with cocaine so I'm puzzled how you've yet to explain how you've come to such a conclusion but all you seem to be doing is spitting an irrelevant rant based off of your own experiences which has not an ounce to do with this thread.
"Having some fun with coke" isn't too clever as there is no "safe" frequency of use for cocaine. It's impossible to predict whether any person will become physically or psychologically dependent on this drug and even occasional users run the risk of sudden death with cocaine use. In addition cocaine is responsible for more U.S. emergency room visits than any other illegal drug.You'd not answered my question. You've never had fun with alcohol?
And again, what does "occasional users" have any length of measurement to do with Smiley culture and "nice guy having fun with cocaine"? You're dreaming up story lines to fit your argument and it's wasting my time.
You claimed to know that it's impossible to have fun with cocaine so I'm puzzled how you've yet to explain how you've come to such a conclusion but all you seem to be doing is spitting an irrelevant rant based off of your own experiences which has not an ounce to do with this thread.
-
jones jones
- Posts: 6601
- Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:30 am
Police accountability
K.Snyder;1367925 wrote: You'd not answered my question. You've never had fun with alcohol?
And again, what does "occasional users" have any length of measurement to do with Smiley culture and "nice guy having fun with cocaine"? You're dreaming up story lines to fit your argument and it's wasting my time.
You claimed to know that it's impossible to have fun with cocaine so I'm puzzled how you've yet to explain how you've come to such a conclusion but all you seem to be doing is spitting an irrelevant rant based off of your own experiences which has not an ounce to do with this thread.
Hmmmmmm .... You have become a nasty, uppity little boy, haven't you? Okay, I won't waste any more of your time. Go have some fun now.
And again, what does "occasional users" have any length of measurement to do with Smiley culture and "nice guy having fun with cocaine"? You're dreaming up story lines to fit your argument and it's wasting my time.
You claimed to know that it's impossible to have fun with cocaine so I'm puzzled how you've yet to explain how you've come to such a conclusion but all you seem to be doing is spitting an irrelevant rant based off of your own experiences which has not an ounce to do with this thread.
Hmmmmmm .... You have become a nasty, uppity little boy, haven't you? Okay, I won't waste any more of your time. Go have some fun now.
"…I hate how I don’t feel real enough unless people are watching." — Chuck Palahniuk, Invisible Monsters
Police accountability
It's the English police history, JJ. That's what leads me to call them collectively inveterate lying scum.
There's a trail of dead bodies.
There's a history of ambushes by armed police deliberately targeting people who subsequently prove to be unarmed members of the public, who turn out not to be engaged in even slightly criminal behaviour, and yet we have no prosecutions of the police involved at any level from planning to control to trigger-pulling in any such incident.
There's a history of deaths in custody with exactly the same result.
The police are inveterate in that they do it time and again, lying in that they consistently give inaccurate accounts of what went down, scum in that they have immunity from prosecution and take full advantage of it.
There's a trail of dead bodies.
There's a history of ambushes by armed police deliberately targeting people who subsequently prove to be unarmed members of the public, who turn out not to be engaged in even slightly criminal behaviour, and yet we have no prosecutions of the police involved at any level from planning to control to trigger-pulling in any such incident.
There's a history of deaths in custody with exactly the same result.
The police are inveterate in that they do it time and again, lying in that they consistently give inaccurate accounts of what went down, scum in that they have immunity from prosecution and take full advantage of it.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
-
jones jones
- Posts: 6601
- Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:30 am
Police accountability
spot;1367929 wrote: It's the English police history, JJ. That's what leads me to call them collectively inveterate lying scum.
There's a trail of dead bodies.
There's a history of ambushes by armed police of unarmed bystanders who turn out not to be engaged in even slightly criminal behaviour, and zero prosecutions of the police involved at any level from planning to control to trigger-pulling.
There's a history of deaths in custody with exactly the same result.
The police are inveterate in that they do it time and again, lying in that they don't give accurate accounts of what went down, scum in that they have immunity from prosecution and take full advantage of it.
I agree to disagree with you Spot ... But nevertheless, thank you for addressing me in a civilized manner.
There's a trail of dead bodies.
There's a history of ambushes by armed police of unarmed bystanders who turn out not to be engaged in even slightly criminal behaviour, and zero prosecutions of the police involved at any level from planning to control to trigger-pulling.
There's a history of deaths in custody with exactly the same result.
The police are inveterate in that they do it time and again, lying in that they don't give accurate accounts of what went down, scum in that they have immunity from prosecution and take full advantage of it.
I agree to disagree with you Spot ... But nevertheless, thank you for addressing me in a civilized manner.
"…I hate how I don’t feel real enough unless people are watching." — Chuck Palahniuk, Invisible Monsters
Police accountability
jones jones;1367930 wrote: I agree to disagree with you Spot ... But nevertheless, thank you for addressing me in a civilized manner.
Disagree in what sense, JJ? Are you saying such incidents never happened? I can give you chapter and verse, one by one until the thread overflows. Or are you saying that such incidents are acceptable? Or are you saying that even though it's unacceptable that the events occur and that the police subsequently lie to high heaven about what they did and how they did it, they ought to be allowed their immunity from prosecution.
Disagree in what sense, JJ? Are you saying such incidents never happened? I can give you chapter and verse, one by one until the thread overflows. Or are you saying that such incidents are acceptable? Or are you saying that even though it's unacceptable that the events occur and that the police subsequently lie to high heaven about what they did and how they did it, they ought to be allowed their immunity from prosecution.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Police accountability
jones jones;1367926 wrote: Hmmmmmm .... You have become a nasty, uppity little boy, haven't you? Okay, I won't waste any more of your time. Go have some fun now.
"little boy"? That's quite telling jones, care to talk about it? Or, perhaps you prefer to stick to a two word vocabulary and run off in a fit of rage and pouting
"little boy"? That's quite telling jones, care to talk about it? Or, perhaps you prefer to stick to a two word vocabulary and run off in a fit of rage and pouting
-
fuzzywuzzy
- Posts: 6596
- Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 5:35 pm
Police accountability
spot;1367931 wrote: Disagree in what sense, JJ? Are you saying such incidents never happened? I can give you chapter and verse, one by one until the thread overflows. Or are you saying that such incidents are acceptable? Or are you saying that even though it's unacceptable that the events occur and that the police subsequently lie to high heaven about what they did and how they did it, they ought to be allowed their immunity from prosecution.
I'm happy to see that actually, you ask it of everyone else .....I'm cool with reading chapter and verse .. I'd like to know a little bit more about this incident. (for my own research ) Can we hav ehte actual wording itself rather than just links please?
I'm happy to see that actually, you ask it of everyone else .....I'm cool with reading chapter and verse .. I'd like to know a little bit more about this incident. (for my own research ) Can we hav ehte actual wording itself rather than just links please?
Police accountability
Fuzzywuzzy ~ I agree with you! Speak louder! The links may bring something to be noticed but they do not bring in the persona of the poster. I know I am rather new here but I have found it rather disturbing that many post links and without any real comments or feelings. Spot at least you did speak your mind with this one.
Lady J
Lady J
Police accountability
K ~ "Someone connected with drug cartels or a nice guy that liked to have some fun with cocaine?"
I can tell you first hand that anyone who is associated with the cartel is not in if for fun and anyone who is looking for fun with cocaine is a fool. You posted the question to Jones about alcohol and both are serious addicting "drugs" that if you think you are having fun with then you have had too much.
Lady J
I can tell you first hand that anyone who is associated with the cartel is not in if for fun and anyone who is looking for fun with cocaine is a fool. You posted the question to Jones about alcohol and both are serious addicting "drugs" that if you think you are having fun with then you have had too much.
Lady J
Police accountability
Spot...I understand that the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) (for those who wonder what the discussion is about) has been under scrupulous eyes for some time. My question is why do they do what they are accused of doing? As Jones said we are not eye witnesses to these crimes and you want to monitor them with devices so they can be accused. So IF we presume they are committing these crimes against wrong doers and criminals then why?
Do they see that justice can not be served by the judicial system in place or are they just mad - wanting to beat/kill the being out of another human life?
We do not travel in their shoes and live day in and day out the frustrations that they do of arresting those who assault innocent children, homeless women, elderly men not to speak of trafficking drugs to the young and those already in despair; and then walk free onto the streets to do the same deed over and over again.
Have you ever stopped to think what a law enforcer's life is like; living in the bowels of hell? How frustrated they become and then one day decide to take matters into their own hand.
I am not saying I agree with this but perhaps before you condemn them and call them names you should take a moment to realize what they live day to day.
Lady J
Do they see that justice can not be served by the judicial system in place or are they just mad - wanting to beat/kill the being out of another human life?
We do not travel in their shoes and live day in and day out the frustrations that they do of arresting those who assault innocent children, homeless women, elderly men not to speak of trafficking drugs to the young and those already in despair; and then walk free onto the streets to do the same deed over and over again.
Have you ever stopped to think what a law enforcer's life is like; living in the bowels of hell? How frustrated they become and then one day decide to take matters into their own hand.
I am not saying I agree with this but perhaps before you condemn them and call them names you should take a moment to realize what they live day to day.
Lady J
Police accountability
The worst I could say of the IPCC is that they're a toothless front incapable of demanding the disciplining of members of of the police after those members have behaved outrageously in a way which would be called criminal had a member of the public done it. They do adjudicate between the police and the public and quite often say yes, a member of the public was wrongly treated, but that's as far as it goes. They don't press for disciplinary action by the force concerned, no prosecutions are brought, members of the police are immune from prosecution unless they've broken some internal rule like don't have sex with the public while on duty - for some reason forces deplore that sort of behaviour, don't ask me why.
I'm criticizing the practice. The practice is that if someone dies in custody or in ambush, the police involved are allowed to get together and decide on their story. They're allowed to privately write up their notebooks in concert. They're allowed to provide a written statement to written questions and to subsequently refuse to be interviewed. Beyond that, the force concerned lies and adjusts evidence and bends over in their favour to avoid providing the DPP with a case to take to court, the DPP bends over to avoid prosecuting them, the courts make assumptions in their favour, the entire system is corrupt. The end result is as I described it - immunity from prosecution for anything done while on duty. It stinks.
I'm criticizing the practice. The practice is that if someone dies in custody or in ambush, the police involved are allowed to get together and decide on their story. They're allowed to privately write up their notebooks in concert. They're allowed to provide a written statement to written questions and to subsequently refuse to be interviewed. Beyond that, the force concerned lies and adjusts evidence and bends over in their favour to avoid providing the DPP with a case to take to court, the DPP bends over to avoid prosecuting them, the courts make assumptions in their favour, the entire system is corrupt. The end result is as I described it - immunity from prosecution for anything done while on duty. It stinks.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Police accountability
fuzzywuzzy;1367944 wrote: I'm happy to see that actually, you ask it of everyone else .....I'm cool with reading chapter and verse .. I'd like to know a little bit more about this incident. (for my own research ) Can we hav ehte actual wording itself rather than just links please?
I tend to quote a portion of a link if it's the core of what I'm pointing at. If the entire article is relevant I just use the link, since I'm not allowed to copy the whole article text into the thread for copyright reasons. The article's not going to go away, the link will always work, mostly I'll have copied a paragraph or two, this time I'm pointing at the whole thing. No, you can't have the wording of the whole thing in the thread.
What I will do though, since I've been asked, is post into the thread similar instances of police immunity from prosecution after they've killed people.
I tend to quote a portion of a link if it's the core of what I'm pointing at. If the entire article is relevant I just use the link, since I'm not allowed to copy the whole article text into the thread for copyright reasons. The article's not going to go away, the link will always work, mostly I'll have copied a paragraph or two, this time I'm pointing at the whole thing. No, you can't have the wording of the whole thing in the thread.
What I will do though, since I've been asked, is post into the thread similar instances of police immunity from prosecution after they've killed people.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Police accountability
Here's a relevant discussion of the toothless nature of the IPCC to change the current police practice of refusing to be interviewed and colluding on their story in private before answering written questions.The IPCC, which is investigating the death of Mr Saunders, called for the practice of firearms officers comparing notes to be stamped out after the fatal shooting of Jean Charles de Menezes. In the IPCC's skeleton argument-to be delivered at the High Court today in the case of Mr Saunders, it will brand the practice of conferring as "unacceptable" and "likely to undermine public confidence in the police".
According to the court papers, the IPCC will argue that it has " repeatedly attempted to reform the practice", drawing particular attention to the fatal shootings of Harry Stanley in 1999 and Jean Charles de Menezes in 2006. On each occasion the IPCC actively sought to reform the practice and issued repeated statements of its intent. However, ACPO and the Police Federation have been reluctant to withdraw the right of conference because firearms officers might fear self-incrimination in a solitary interview and this reluctance could further delay the investigation process.
In April 2008, the Police Federation issued a response to the IPCC that said: "Firearms officers are invariably high-quality, dedicated officers who would be anxious not to do anything to obstruct proper investigation" and that changing the rules "could only be construed as a move which overtly places them under suspicion as soon as any serious incident takes place."
In its attempt to reform the current system the IPCC even went as far as to ask the Home Office to extend its powers to compel police witnesses to attend interviews, but the Home Office failed to respond "positively", the police watchdog claims in the court documents. Currently the IPCC has no power to prevent officers from conferring.
Watchdog told gun police to stop comparing notes | News
According to the court papers, the IPCC will argue that it has " repeatedly attempted to reform the practice", drawing particular attention to the fatal shootings of Harry Stanley in 1999 and Jean Charles de Menezes in 2006. On each occasion the IPCC actively sought to reform the practice and issued repeated statements of its intent. However, ACPO and the Police Federation have been reluctant to withdraw the right of conference because firearms officers might fear self-incrimination in a solitary interview and this reluctance could further delay the investigation process.
In April 2008, the Police Federation issued a response to the IPCC that said: "Firearms officers are invariably high-quality, dedicated officers who would be anxious not to do anything to obstruct proper investigation" and that changing the rules "could only be construed as a move which overtly places them under suspicion as soon as any serious incident takes place."
In its attempt to reform the current system the IPCC even went as far as to ask the Home Office to extend its powers to compel police witnesses to attend interviews, but the Home Office failed to respond "positively", the police watchdog claims in the court documents. Currently the IPCC has no power to prevent officers from conferring.
Watchdog told gun police to stop comparing notes | News
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Police accountability
Lady J;1367949 wrote: Have you ever stopped to think what a law enforcer's life is like; living in the bowels of hell? How frustrated they become and then one day decide to take matters into their own hand.Nowhere have I suggested any police officers have taken matters into their own hands. I don't believe they do. What I'm painting is a picture of Keystone Cops ineptitude on an institutional scale, combined with immunity for everyone involved. I'm incensed equally by the ineffectual policing, by the inept screw-ups that kill people going about their normal lives until these Kevlar-clad roaches from Leman Street spring out of the undergrowth guns blazing, and by the subsequent lack of accountability.
The events on the tube station platform and in the carriage where Jean Charles de Menezes was killed, for example, were all recorded by London Underground video cameras. The institutional lie on that occasion was that none of the video recorders was on at the time. Cobblers, of course they were. The accounts given by the officers in evidence differed markedly from the evidence of the members of the public who observed the assault on the carriage and the killing. The video evidence would have shown who was being truthful.
Would you like to test the notion? The killing of Mark Duggan four weeks ago was undoubtedly within view of CCTV at Tottenham Hale. The police claim he was holding a gun when he was shot. What's the betting the video evidence to the contrary no longer exists? You can be certain that if video evidence shows him holding a gun it will be made public. Keep an eye out for whether it's released or or whether "there was no film in the recorder at the time". In all ten cameras.
The events on the tube station platform and in the carriage where Jean Charles de Menezes was killed, for example, were all recorded by London Underground video cameras. The institutional lie on that occasion was that none of the video recorders was on at the time. Cobblers, of course they were. The accounts given by the officers in evidence differed markedly from the evidence of the members of the public who observed the assault on the carriage and the killing. The video evidence would have shown who was being truthful.
Would you like to test the notion? The killing of Mark Duggan four weeks ago was undoubtedly within view of CCTV at Tottenham Hale. The police claim he was holding a gun when he was shot. What's the betting the video evidence to the contrary no longer exists? You can be certain that if video evidence shows him holding a gun it will be made public. Keep an eye out for whether it's released or or whether "there was no film in the recorder at the time". In all ten cameras.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31842
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Police accountability
Lady J;1367949 wrote: Spot...I understand that the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) (for those who wonder what the discussion is about) has been under scrupulous eyes for some time. My question is why do they do what they are accused of doing? As Jones said we are not eye witnesses to these crimes and you want to monitor them with devices so they can be accused. So IF we presume they are committing these crimes against wrong doers and criminals then why?
Do they see that justice can not be served by the judicial system in place or are they just mad - wanting to beat/kill the being out of another human life?
We do not travel in their shoes and live day in and day out the frustrations that they do of arresting those who assault innocent children, homeless women, elderly men not to speak of trafficking drugs to the young and those already in despair; and then walk free onto the streets to do the same deed over and over again.
Have you ever stopped to think what a law enforcer's life is like; living in the bowels of hell? How frustrated they become and then one day decide to take matters into their own hand.
I am not saying I agree with this but perhaps before you condemn them and call them names you should take a moment to realize what they live day to day.
Lady J Have you ever stopped to wonder why this country has an Independent Police Complaints Commisssion In the first place and why they recieve thousands of complaints every year?
As It happens. I don't think all police are scum. There are decent officers out there but there Is also a percentage who are no better than the criminals they arrest.
I also do not believe that It Is the Force It'self that makes some officers rotton apples In the barrell. There needs to be phycological profiling on every candidate before they are put on the street.
They don't turn rotten, they are already rotten from the moment they apply to the Force.
Chances are by the time they are Investigated, they have already been Investigated and are being Investigated again after the complaint. Chances are they have already got away with murder by systematically lying under oath to cover a sloppy Investigation, buried witness's etc etc.
In some cases, the IPCC know a wrong one the moment they come to light. They make their report and their recommendations but the Force It'self accepts the lame excuses put In the defence of the officer.
Do they see that justice can not be served by the judicial system in place or are they just mad - wanting to beat/kill the being out of another human life?
We do not travel in their shoes and live day in and day out the frustrations that they do of arresting those who assault innocent children, homeless women, elderly men not to speak of trafficking drugs to the young and those already in despair; and then walk free onto the streets to do the same deed over and over again.
Have you ever stopped to think what a law enforcer's life is like; living in the bowels of hell? How frustrated they become and then one day decide to take matters into their own hand.
I am not saying I agree with this but perhaps before you condemn them and call them names you should take a moment to realize what they live day to day.
Lady J Have you ever stopped to wonder why this country has an Independent Police Complaints Commisssion In the first place and why they recieve thousands of complaints every year?
As It happens. I don't think all police are scum. There are decent officers out there but there Is also a percentage who are no better than the criminals they arrest.
I also do not believe that It Is the Force It'self that makes some officers rotton apples In the barrell. There needs to be phycological profiling on every candidate before they are put on the street.
They don't turn rotten, they are already rotten from the moment they apply to the Force.
Chances are by the time they are Investigated, they have already been Investigated and are being Investigated again after the complaint. Chances are they have already got away with murder by systematically lying under oath to cover a sloppy Investigation, buried witness's etc etc.
In some cases, the IPCC know a wrong one the moment they come to light. They make their report and their recommendations but the Force It'self accepts the lame excuses put In the defence of the officer.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
-
jones jones
- Posts: 6601
- Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:30 am
Police accountability
K.Snyder;1367941 wrote: "little boy"? That's quite telling jones, care to talk about it? Or, perhaps you prefer to stick to a two word vocabulary and run off in a fit of rage and pouting
Citizen Snyder ... "That's quite telling jones, care to talk about it?"
Not being a psychic, I am unsure as to exactly what this question means. However I am assuming that you meant ... "indicative of much otherwise unnoticed; revealing:"
Indeed I will talk about it. Now, before I was banned, you and I had very little contact apart from one or two well documented episodes involving one or two female members. I will not elaborate as both us us and indeed anyone who was a member then, knows what I am talking about.
During the time before & indeed during the time I was being banned, several Moderators of the time had their say in the Moderators Forum, to which I obviously had no access. However thanks to some members who believed in me, I was kept abreast of exactly who said what in this Forum.
Much of what was discussed there and many of the accusations made against me, were based on supposition, innuendo, half-truths & jealousy. Of course I made many mistakes and said things that counted against me, but that was because of who I am. Nobody is perfect.
All that of course is history and the tape cannot be rewound. I hold no grudge against any Moderator or Member of FG. If I did I would not have asked Tombstone if I could return to these Boards.
So Member Snyder, as I said earlier, I am not able to read your mind and as a result I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt. But if your question was an intentional reference to something you may have been told about why I was banned, or something you may have heard from any member of FG, then I urge you not to attempt a cheap shot like this again.
I think I know what you mean and I am certain you know what you meant. I have no personal issue with you believe me, and I seldom if ever "tackle the man without the ball", so to speak. Unless I am provoked, when I attack, I attack a statement made in a thread and not the Member who posted the thread.
Incidentally I have a very, very large vocabulary and I hardly ever get angry and have never, ever pouted in my entire life.
You take care now and have an awesome day!
Citizen Snyder ... "That's quite telling jones, care to talk about it?"
Not being a psychic, I am unsure as to exactly what this question means. However I am assuming that you meant ... "indicative of much otherwise unnoticed; revealing:"
Indeed I will talk about it. Now, before I was banned, you and I had very little contact apart from one or two well documented episodes involving one or two female members. I will not elaborate as both us us and indeed anyone who was a member then, knows what I am talking about.
During the time before & indeed during the time I was being banned, several Moderators of the time had their say in the Moderators Forum, to which I obviously had no access. However thanks to some members who believed in me, I was kept abreast of exactly who said what in this Forum.
Much of what was discussed there and many of the accusations made against me, were based on supposition, innuendo, half-truths & jealousy. Of course I made many mistakes and said things that counted against me, but that was because of who I am. Nobody is perfect.
All that of course is history and the tape cannot be rewound. I hold no grudge against any Moderator or Member of FG. If I did I would not have asked Tombstone if I could return to these Boards.
So Member Snyder, as I said earlier, I am not able to read your mind and as a result I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt. But if your question was an intentional reference to something you may have been told about why I was banned, or something you may have heard from any member of FG, then I urge you not to attempt a cheap shot like this again.
I think I know what you mean and I am certain you know what you meant. I have no personal issue with you believe me, and I seldom if ever "tackle the man without the ball", so to speak. Unless I am provoked, when I attack, I attack a statement made in a thread and not the Member who posted the thread.
Incidentally I have a very, very large vocabulary and I hardly ever get angry and have never, ever pouted in my entire life.
You take care now and have an awesome day!
"…I hate how I don’t feel real enough unless people are watching." — Chuck Palahniuk, Invisible Monsters
-
jones jones
- Posts: 6601
- Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:30 am
Police accountability
spot;1367929 wrote: It's the English police history, JJ. That's what leads me to call them collectively inveterate lying scum.
There's a trail of dead bodies.
There's a history of ambushes by armed police deliberately targeting people who subsequently prove to be unarmed members of the public, who turn out not to be engaged in even slightly criminal behaviour, and yet we have no prosecutions of the police involved at any level from planning to control to trigger-pulling in any such incident.
There's a history of deaths in custody with exactly the same result.
The police are inveterate in that they do it time and again, lying in that they consistently give inaccurate accounts of what went down, scum in that they have immunity from prosecution and take full advantage of it.
Okay Spot ... Maybe I "rushed into print" so to speak. Its just that I have this romantic idea that the police are the good guys & those they arrest are the bad guys.
I know very little about the police in the U.K. other than what I see daily when I watch Sky News and BBC News on TV. But I find it hard to believe that a police officer would stab this dude & then claim he did it himself. Why would they do this? Isn't it at all possible that he did stab himself? I mean if he was high? Then again how did he get hold of a knife?
Maybe I should just abandon this thread and go annoy Mickiel again!
There's a trail of dead bodies.
There's a history of ambushes by armed police deliberately targeting people who subsequently prove to be unarmed members of the public, who turn out not to be engaged in even slightly criminal behaviour, and yet we have no prosecutions of the police involved at any level from planning to control to trigger-pulling in any such incident.
There's a history of deaths in custody with exactly the same result.
The police are inveterate in that they do it time and again, lying in that they consistently give inaccurate accounts of what went down, scum in that they have immunity from prosecution and take full advantage of it.
Okay Spot ... Maybe I "rushed into print" so to speak. Its just that I have this romantic idea that the police are the good guys & those they arrest are the bad guys.
I know very little about the police in the U.K. other than what I see daily when I watch Sky News and BBC News on TV. But I find it hard to believe that a police officer would stab this dude & then claim he did it himself. Why would they do this? Isn't it at all possible that he did stab himself? I mean if he was high? Then again how did he get hold of a knife?
Maybe I should just abandon this thread and go annoy Mickiel again!
"…I hate how I don’t feel real enough unless people are watching." — Chuck Palahniuk, Invisible Monsters
Police accountability
jones jones;1367972 wrote: I find it hard to believe that a police officer would stab this dude & then claim he did it himself. Why would they do this? Isn't it at all possible that he did stab himself? I mean if he was high? Then again how did he get hold of a knife?I haven't suggested he was stabbed by a police officer. On the other hand I find it entirely unbelievable that he stabbed himself through the heart with a knife. By all means find precedents for someone doing that but I can't discover any, much less while in police custody. Inventing alternative scenarios isn't my intention, debunking blatant twaddle is.
There's no suggestion anywhere that Smiley Culture was "high", as you put it. What the article says is that after being taken into custody he was found dead with a kitchen knife in his chest, no fingerprints anywhere to be found and a bunch of policemen refusing to be interviewed other than in writing after first collaborating on their version of events.
There's no suggestion anywhere that Smiley Culture was "high", as you put it. What the article says is that after being taken into custody he was found dead with a kitchen knife in his chest, no fingerprints anywhere to be found and a bunch of policemen refusing to be interviewed other than in writing after first collaborating on their version of events.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Police accountability
Lady J;1367948 wrote: K ~ "Someone connected with drug cartels or a nice guy that liked to have some fun with cocaine?"
I can tell you first hand that anyone who is associated with the cartel is not in if for fun and anyone who is looking for fun with cocaine is a fool. You posted the question to Jones about alcohol and both are serious addicting "drugs" that if you think you are having fun with then you have had too much.
Lady JSo if he's a "fool" then him being stabbed in the heart is acceptable then?
A bit of peculiar reasoning but ok
I can tell you first hand that anyone who is associated with the cartel is not in if for fun and anyone who is looking for fun with cocaine is a fool. You posted the question to Jones about alcohol and both are serious addicting "drugs" that if you think you are having fun with then you have had too much.
Lady JSo if he's a "fool" then him being stabbed in the heart is acceptable then?
A bit of peculiar reasoning but ok
Police accountability
Perhaps I'm naive, but what's the motivation behind killing this guy? Just for fun? I don't doubt there's corruption in any police force but it seems there would be some kind of reason behind a murder like this. Or are you trying to claim the cops over in England are all serial killers?
Police accountability
It seems strange in this high tech age with the availability of recording equipment, why these sort of actions are not covered by cams worn by every officer involved for their and public security.
Would be cheaper than the all the later tribunals.
Head cams linky
Would be cheaper than the all the later tribunals.
Head cams linky
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Police accountability
SnoozeAgain;1367979 wrote: Perhaps I'm naive, but what's the motivation behind killing this guy? Just for fun? I don't doubt there's corruption in any police force but it seems there would be some kind of reason behind a murder like this. Or are you trying to claim the cops over in England are all serial killers?
I think it unlikely anyone deliberately set out to kill him. On the other hand, Plod is a renowned vicious bastard who takes delight in beating seven hells out of anyone who could be described as snarky or "resisting arrest". Who was holding the knife is something only those there know for certain.
Perhaps if you have a quick read of Jacob Michael dies after he was pepper-sprayed and arrested by 'ELEVEN officers' | Mail Online you'll get an idea of the arrogant "we're above the law" untouchable nature of the English police, from last week. I'd be surprised if it's not similar in the US.
I think it unlikely anyone deliberately set out to kill him. On the other hand, Plod is a renowned vicious bastard who takes delight in beating seven hells out of anyone who could be described as snarky or "resisting arrest". Who was holding the knife is something only those there know for certain.
Perhaps if you have a quick read of Jacob Michael dies after he was pepper-sprayed and arrested by 'ELEVEN officers' | Mail Online you'll get an idea of the arrogant "we're above the law" untouchable nature of the English police, from last week. I'd be surprised if it's not similar in the US.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Police accountability
Bruv;1367981 wrote: It seems strange in this high tech age with the availability of recording equipment, why these sort of actions are not covered by cams worn by every officer involved for their and public security.The Police Federation would no doubt say the reason it's not done is that nobody would join the police or remain in the force under such circumstances. Me, I'd call their bluff and make it mandatory. If the bastards want a job they can do it under more reasonable terms than the public currently has to put up with.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Police accountability
spot;1367982 wrote: I think it unlikely anyone deliberately set out to kill him. On the other hand, Plod is a renowned vicious bastard who takes delight in beating seven hells out of anyone who could be described as snarky or "resisting arrest". Who was holding the knife is something only those there know for certain.
Perhaps if you have a quick read of Jacob Michael dies after he was pepper-sprayed and arrested by 'ELEVEN officers' | Mail Online you'll get an idea of the arrogant "we're above the law" untouchable nature of the English police, from last week. I'd be surprised if it's not similar in the US.
I didn't know that, spot.
Perhaps if you have a quick read of Jacob Michael dies after he was pepper-sprayed and arrested by 'ELEVEN officers' | Mail Online you'll get an idea of the arrogant "we're above the law" untouchable nature of the English police, from last week. I'd be surprised if it's not similar in the US.
I didn't know that, spot.
Live the questions now. Perhaps you will then gradually, without noticing it, live along some distant day into the answers...Rainer Maria Rilke
Police accountability
theia;1367987 wrote: [quote=spot]On the other hand, Plod is a renowned vicious bastard who takes delight in beating seven hells out of anyone who could be described as snarky or "resisting arrest".I didn't know that, spot.[/QUOTE]Doesn't the link I gave to last week's death of Jacob Michael suggest it's true?
Look, there's an entire Wikipedia article on police brutality:What the average citizen thinks of when he hears the term, however, is something midway between these two occurrences, something more akin to what the police profession knows as 'alley court' — the wanton vicious beating of a person in custody, usually while handcuffed, and usually taking place somewhere between the scene of the arrest and the station house.
Look, there's an entire Wikipedia article on police brutality:What the average citizen thinks of when he hears the term, however, is something midway between these two occurrences, something more akin to what the police profession knows as 'alley court' — the wanton vicious beating of a person in custody, usually while handcuffed, and usually taking place somewhere between the scene of the arrest and the station house.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
-
jones jones
- Posts: 6601
- Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:30 am
Police accountability
I have been sucked into this thread again against my better judgement. But its good for FG to have active threads.
One needs to clarify the "job description" of the police. Are they a Police Service or are they a Police Force?
As Harry Callahan (Dirty Harry) said: " When a naked man is chasing a woman through an alley with a butcher's knife and a hard-on, I figure he isn't out collecting for the Red Cross!" :guitarist
When something like this happens to you, who you gonna call? Ghostbusters? Nooooo!
You gonna dial 999 in the U.K or 911 in the States and when the cops take too long to arrive, you get pissed, right?
And when they get there to save your mother, wife, sister, daughter from the guy with the butcher's knife and the hard on, are you gonna give a flying f...k about any collateral damage? Noooooooooo! You are going to be very happy.:-6
So before we throw the first stone, let's take the log out of our own eye, No, that isn't right. Well you know what I mean! :wah:
One needs to clarify the "job description" of the police. Are they a Police Service or are they a Police Force?
As Harry Callahan (Dirty Harry) said: " When a naked man is chasing a woman through an alley with a butcher's knife and a hard-on, I figure he isn't out collecting for the Red Cross!" :guitarist
When something like this happens to you, who you gonna call? Ghostbusters? Nooooo!
You gonna dial 999 in the U.K or 911 in the States and when the cops take too long to arrive, you get pissed, right?
And when they get there to save your mother, wife, sister, daughter from the guy with the butcher's knife and the hard on, are you gonna give a flying f...k about any collateral damage? Noooooooooo! You are going to be very happy.:-6
So before we throw the first stone, let's take the log out of our own eye, No, that isn't right. Well you know what I mean! :wah:
"…I hate how I don’t feel real enough unless people are watching." — Chuck Palahniuk, Invisible Monsters
Police accountability
You seem to be suggesting the police are beyond reform or improvement.
I want reform, I want improvement.
I'd go for privatizing them wholesale, permitting competition between commercial police companies, enabling the public to take on the functions currently reserved to the police at the moment, scrap the entire notion of uniforms, increase the extent of surveillance and access to the raw data it produces.
I'd put a bounty on all crime to encourage its detection and investigation and prosecution, and I'd allow any person of good character in this country to set up in business to do any or all three of those phases of policing. And the biggest bounty would be for detecting and investigating and prosecuting police corruption and malfeasance.
I want reform, I want improvement.
I'd go for privatizing them wholesale, permitting competition between commercial police companies, enabling the public to take on the functions currently reserved to the police at the moment, scrap the entire notion of uniforms, increase the extent of surveillance and access to the raw data it produces.
I'd put a bounty on all crime to encourage its detection and investigation and prosecution, and I'd allow any person of good character in this country to set up in business to do any or all three of those phases of policing. And the biggest bounty would be for detecting and investigating and prosecuting police corruption and malfeasance.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Police accountability
spot;1367931 wrote: [QUOTE=jones jones][quote=spot]There's a history of ambushes by armed police of unarmed bystanders who turn out not to be engaged in even slightly criminal behaviour, and zero prosecutions of the police involved at any level from planning to control to trigger-pulling.
There's a history of deaths in custody with exactly the same result.I agree to disagree with you Spot ... But nevertheless, thank you for addressing me in a civilized manner.Disagree in what sense, JJ? Are you saying such incidents never happened? I can give you chapter and verse, one by one until the thread overflows. Or are you saying that such incidents are acceptable? Or are you saying that even though it's unacceptable that the events occur and that the police subsequently lie to high heaven about what they did and how they did it, they ought to be allowed their immunity from prosecution.
Here you are JJ, this is the question you walked past without answering. An answer would be interesting.
There's a history of deaths in custody with exactly the same result.I agree to disagree with you Spot ... But nevertheless, thank you for addressing me in a civilized manner.Disagree in what sense, JJ? Are you saying such incidents never happened? I can give you chapter and verse, one by one until the thread overflows. Or are you saying that such incidents are acceptable? Or are you saying that even though it's unacceptable that the events occur and that the police subsequently lie to high heaven about what they did and how they did it, they ought to be allowed their immunity from prosecution.
Here you are JJ, this is the question you walked past without answering. An answer would be interesting.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Police accountability
spot;1367988 wrote: Doesn't the link I gave to last week's death of Jacob Michael suggest it's true?Look, there's an entire Wikipedia article on police brutality:What the average citizen thinks of when he hears the term, however, is something midway between these two occurrences, something more akin to what the police profession knows as 'alley court' — the wanton vicious beating of a person in custody, usually while handcuffed, and usually taking place somewhere between the scene of the arrest and the station house.
It could well suggest it's true, yes...in this particular case. But does that mean it's okay to generalise and to insult all members of the police force?
It could well suggest it's true, yes...in this particular case. But does that mean it's okay to generalise and to insult all members of the police force?
Live the questions now. Perhaps you will then gradually, without noticing it, live along some distant day into the answers...Rainer Maria Rilke
Police accountability
theia;1367993 wrote: It could well suggest it's true, yes...in this particular case. But does that mean it's okay to generalise and to insult all members of the police force?The police force is staffed entirely by volunteers. Nobody joins unless they choose to join.
Everyone who joins knows the police are used by government to intimidate and suppress lawful workers' protests and lawful protesters' demonstrations. They know this because there are precedents of government in England doing exactly that. No volunteer has any reason to think they'll not be called upon, if they join, to do the same thing.
It is, therefore, every member of the police force that I'm insulting. Nobody made them promise to act as agents of repression, they chose to make that promise themselves.
I'm particularly insulting those police who subsequently volunteer to train as armed officers because they, again, have a choice and again have a series of precedents of the misuse of armed officers, and again they opt to make a promise: this time to kill immediately on command. Given the previous and continuing consequences of officers obeying that order it's not a promise they can ethically give. Nobody can volunteer to be in that position and not be an amoral opportunist.
Everyone who joins knows the police are used by government to intimidate and suppress lawful workers' protests and lawful protesters' demonstrations. They know this because there are precedents of government in England doing exactly that. No volunteer has any reason to think they'll not be called upon, if they join, to do the same thing.
It is, therefore, every member of the police force that I'm insulting. Nobody made them promise to act as agents of repression, they chose to make that promise themselves.
I'm particularly insulting those police who subsequently volunteer to train as armed officers because they, again, have a choice and again have a series of precedents of the misuse of armed officers, and again they opt to make a promise: this time to kill immediately on command. Given the previous and continuing consequences of officers obeying that order it's not a promise they can ethically give. Nobody can volunteer to be in that position and not be an amoral opportunist.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
-
jones jones
- Posts: 6601
- Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:30 am
Police accountability
Disagree in what sense, JJ? Are you saying such incidents never happened? I can give you chapter and verse, one by one until the thread overflows. Or are you saying that such incidents are acceptable? Or are you saying that even though it's unacceptable that the events occur and that the police subsequently lie to high heaven about what they did and how they did it, they ought to be allowed their immunity from prosecution.
I guess I am saying that most earthlings who are arrested have committed some or other felony or crime or whatever. I doubt the police go around looking for some unfortunate to arrest. Earthlings are basically lazy and in my experience employees don't go around looking for work.
I agree that when an incident happens, say when a cop shoots an innocent person, as does happen, they try to cover their ass. But I cannot agree, even though you have more info than I have, that ALL the police in the U.K. are lying scum.
Brits, with the odd exception, are fairly law abiding compared to many other western nations, so I cannot see why your police would behave in such a manner.
I guess I am saying that most earthlings who are arrested have committed some or other felony or crime or whatever. I doubt the police go around looking for some unfortunate to arrest. Earthlings are basically lazy and in my experience employees don't go around looking for work.
I agree that when an incident happens, say when a cop shoots an innocent person, as does happen, they try to cover their ass. But I cannot agree, even though you have more info than I have, that ALL the police in the U.K. are lying scum.
Brits, with the odd exception, are fairly law abiding compared to many other western nations, so I cannot see why your police would behave in such a manner.
"…I hate how I don’t feel real enough unless people are watching." — Chuck Palahniuk, Invisible Monsters
Police accountability
spot;1367994 wrote: The police force is staffed entirely by volunteers. Nobody joins unless they choose to join. You could say the same about anybody in any job, getting bad service in Boots the chemist doesn't make all the staff the same.
Everyone who joins knows the police are used by government to intimidate and suppress lawful workers' protests and lawful protesters' demonstrations. They know this because there are precedents of government in England doing exactly that. No volunteer has any reason to think they'll not be called upon, if they join, to do the same thing.
It is, therefore, every member of the police force that I'm insulting. Nobody made them promise to act as agents of repression, they chose to make that promise themselves.
I'm particularly insulting those police who subsequently volunteer to train as armed officers because they, again, have a choice and again have a series of precedents of the misuse of armed officers, and again they opt to make a promise: this time to kill immediately on command. Given the previous and continuing consequences of officers obeying that order it's not a promise they can ethically give. Nobody can volunteer to be in that position and not be an amoral opportunist.
The Police are widely respected in the UK despite Spot's over the top verbiage.
He does his argument no good at all by such a progression of logic.
The police are there to up hold law on our behalf and with our consent, they do not write or interpret the law, or necessarily agree with it.
When the likes of Spot remove their consent, they are on a hiding to nothing.
Everyone who joins knows the police are used by government to intimidate and suppress lawful workers' protests and lawful protesters' demonstrations. They know this because there are precedents of government in England doing exactly that. No volunteer has any reason to think they'll not be called upon, if they join, to do the same thing.
It is, therefore, every member of the police force that I'm insulting. Nobody made them promise to act as agents of repression, they chose to make that promise themselves.
I'm particularly insulting those police who subsequently volunteer to train as armed officers because they, again, have a choice and again have a series of precedents of the misuse of armed officers, and again they opt to make a promise: this time to kill immediately on command. Given the previous and continuing consequences of officers obeying that order it's not a promise they can ethically give. Nobody can volunteer to be in that position and not be an amoral opportunist.
The Police are widely respected in the UK despite Spot's over the top verbiage.
He does his argument no good at all by such a progression of logic.
The police are there to up hold law on our behalf and with our consent, they do not write or interpret the law, or necessarily agree with it.
When the likes of Spot remove their consent, they are on a hiding to nothing.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Police accountability
jones jones;1367995 wrote: Brits, with the odd exception, are fairly law abiding compared to many other western nations, so I cannot see why your police would behave in such a manner.The traditional answer to that may even have some truth to it: Because they can. Change that and the problem is ended.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Police accountability
jones jones;1367971 wrote: Citizen Snyder ... "That's quite telling jones, care to talk about it?"
Not being a psychic, I am unsure as to exactly what this question means. However I am assuming that you meant ... "indicative of much otherwise unnoticed; revealing:"
Indeed I will talk about it. Now, before I was banned, you and I had very little contact apart from one or two well documented episodes involving one or two female members. I will not elaborate as both us us and indeed anyone who was a member then, knows what I am talking about.
During the time before & indeed during the time I was being banned, several Moderators of the time had their say in the Moderators Forum, to which I obviously had no access. However thanks to some members who believed in me, I was kept abreast of exactly who said what in this Forum.
Much of what was discussed there and many of the accusations made against me, were based on supposition, innuendo, half-truths & jealousy. Of course I made many mistakes and said things that counted against me, but that was because of who I am. Nobody is perfect.
All that of course is history and the tape cannot be rewound. I hold no grudge against any Moderator or Member of FG. If I did I would not have asked Tombstone if I could return to these Boards.
So Member Snyder, as I said earlier, I am not able to read your mind and as a result I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt. But if your question was an intentional reference to something you may have been told about why I was banned, or something you may have heard from any member of FG, then I urge you not to attempt a cheap shot like this again.
I think I know what you mean and I am certain you know what you meant. I have no personal issue with you believe me, and I seldom if ever "tackle the man without the ball", so to speak. Unless I am provoked, when I attack, I attack a statement made in a thread and not the Member who posted the thread.
Incidentally I have a very, very large vocabulary and I hardly ever get angry and have never, ever pouted in my entire life.
You take care now and have an awesome day!I don't know the history of the tape you speak of to be honest and I don't care.
I don't have issues with anyone either, only what some may say. What's been insinuated is the idea not a single person uses cocaine for personal use to absolutely no negative effect other than ones physical health which I go as far to inform everyone of the far greater concern to ones physical health is a minute episode at McDonalds.
This is incredibly easy to follow so I ask why it's assumed anyone that uses cocaine is a monster which ultimately suggests the justification in murdering these people based off of the ignorant phobia of "illegal" drugs.
Do you have any idea the war on drugs and it's completely immoral effect on society in America or are we to just skip this issue altogether on the hope one might appear informed by joining the bandwagon?
Without a prejudice against drug users as a result circumstances like the one Mr. Smiley had seen would assuredly been nonexistent.
Not being a psychic, I am unsure as to exactly what this question means. However I am assuming that you meant ... "indicative of much otherwise unnoticed; revealing:"
Indeed I will talk about it. Now, before I was banned, you and I had very little contact apart from one or two well documented episodes involving one or two female members. I will not elaborate as both us us and indeed anyone who was a member then, knows what I am talking about.
During the time before & indeed during the time I was being banned, several Moderators of the time had their say in the Moderators Forum, to which I obviously had no access. However thanks to some members who believed in me, I was kept abreast of exactly who said what in this Forum.
Much of what was discussed there and many of the accusations made against me, were based on supposition, innuendo, half-truths & jealousy. Of course I made many mistakes and said things that counted against me, but that was because of who I am. Nobody is perfect.
All that of course is history and the tape cannot be rewound. I hold no grudge against any Moderator or Member of FG. If I did I would not have asked Tombstone if I could return to these Boards.
So Member Snyder, as I said earlier, I am not able to read your mind and as a result I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt. But if your question was an intentional reference to something you may have been told about why I was banned, or something you may have heard from any member of FG, then I urge you not to attempt a cheap shot like this again.
I think I know what you mean and I am certain you know what you meant. I have no personal issue with you believe me, and I seldom if ever "tackle the man without the ball", so to speak. Unless I am provoked, when I attack, I attack a statement made in a thread and not the Member who posted the thread.
Incidentally I have a very, very large vocabulary and I hardly ever get angry and have never, ever pouted in my entire life.
You take care now and have an awesome day!I don't know the history of the tape you speak of to be honest and I don't care.
I don't have issues with anyone either, only what some may say. What's been insinuated is the idea not a single person uses cocaine for personal use to absolutely no negative effect other than ones physical health which I go as far to inform everyone of the far greater concern to ones physical health is a minute episode at McDonalds.
This is incredibly easy to follow so I ask why it's assumed anyone that uses cocaine is a monster which ultimately suggests the justification in murdering these people based off of the ignorant phobia of "illegal" drugs.
Do you have any idea the war on drugs and it's completely immoral effect on society in America or are we to just skip this issue altogether on the hope one might appear informed by joining the bandwagon?
Without a prejudice against drug users as a result circumstances like the one Mr. Smiley had seen would assuredly been nonexistent.
Police accountability
Bruv;1367996 wrote: When the likes of Spot remove their consent, they are on a hiding to nothing.They should do their job properly then, shouldn't they. And they don't, do they. Hence my conclusion.
It was Anastrophe who told me to consider the difference between volunteers and conscripts when it comes to morality. Without his help I'd not have developed my analysis in the way I did.
Neither the police nor the armed forces of this country have my consent or cooperation, not while successive governments make use of them the way they do.
Beyond that, the police must have whatever form of straitjacket imposed on them that's capable of proving their word in court because their word in court isn't worth spit. I'd settle for the video camera attached to every single serving officer from recruit to chief constable. Then we might finally get police integrity. They're certainly not going to volunteer it. Meanwhile I'd encourage every citizen to video every police action they see, to provide an independent record. And no, it's not illegal, not yet anyway.
It was Anastrophe who told me to consider the difference between volunteers and conscripts when it comes to morality. Without his help I'd not have developed my analysis in the way I did.
Neither the police nor the armed forces of this country have my consent or cooperation, not while successive governments make use of them the way they do.
Beyond that, the police must have whatever form of straitjacket imposed on them that's capable of proving their word in court because their word in court isn't worth spit. I'd settle for the video camera attached to every single serving officer from recruit to chief constable. Then we might finally get police integrity. They're certainly not going to volunteer it. Meanwhile I'd encourage every citizen to video every police action they see, to provide an independent record. And no, it's not illegal, not yet anyway.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
-
jones jones
- Posts: 6601
- Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:30 am
Police accountability
Wow Kev ... "Jaysus Christ!" as my Irish forefathers would have said. For the very first time in my entire time spent on FG, I have just read a post of ten lines that made absolutely no sense at all. I honestly have absolutely no ****ing idea what you have just said.
Anyway laddie, selective memory is like part of the denial syndrome when we are faced with something we would have preferred never took place. Coohil, if you wanna go that route but does the name "Southern Belle" aka Rhonda maybe ring a belle?
You flirted with her for months on end yet now you've forgotten her? For shame! I will e-mail her immediately and ask her if she maybe remembers you. :wah:
Anyway laddie, selective memory is like part of the denial syndrome when we are faced with something we would have preferred never took place. Coohil, if you wanna go that route but does the name "Southern Belle" aka Rhonda maybe ring a belle?
You flirted with her for months on end yet now you've forgotten her? For shame! I will e-mail her immediately and ask her if she maybe remembers you. :wah:
"…I hate how I don’t feel real enough unless people are watching." — Chuck Palahniuk, Invisible Monsters
Police accountability
jones jones;1368004 wrote: Wow Kev ... "Jaysus Christ!" as my Irish forefathers would have said. For the very first time in my entire time spent on FG, I have just read a post of ten lines that made absolutely no sense at all. I honestly have absolutely no ****ing idea what you have just said.
Anyway laddie, selective memory is like part of the denial syndrome when we are faced with something we would have preferred never took place. Coohil, if you wanna go that route but does the name "Southern Belle" aka Rhonda maybe ring a belle?
You flirted with her for months on end yet now you've forgotten her? For shame! I will e-mail her immediately and ask her if she maybe remembers you. :wah:
Probably because he's trying to stay on topic.
Anyway laddie, selective memory is like part of the denial syndrome when we are faced with something we would have preferred never took place. Coohil, if you wanna go that route but does the name "Southern Belle" aka Rhonda maybe ring a belle?
You flirted with her for months on end yet now you've forgotten her? For shame! I will e-mail her immediately and ask her if she maybe remembers you. :wah:
Probably because he's trying to stay on topic.
-
jones jones
- Posts: 6601
- Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:30 am
Police accountability
SnoozeAgain;1368006 wrote: Probably because he's trying to stay on topic.
Who invited you to the party? Go back to sleep!
Who invited you to the party? Go back to sleep!
"…I hate how I don’t feel real enough unless people are watching." — Chuck Palahniuk, Invisible Monsters
Police accountability
jones jones;1368004 wrote: Wow Kev ... "Jaysus Christ!" as my Irish forefathers would have said. For the very first time in my entire time spent on FG, I have just read a post of ten lines that made absolutely no sense at all. I honestly have absolutely no ****ing idea what you have just said.
Anyway laddie, selective memory is like part of the denial syndrome when we are faced with something we would have preferred never took place. Coohil, if you wanna go that route but does the name "Southern Belle" aka Rhonda maybe ring a belle?
You flirted with her for months on end yet now you've forgotten her? For shame! I will e-mail her immediately and ask her if she maybe remembers you. :wah:
Why don't you two get a room........
Anyway laddie, selective memory is like part of the denial syndrome when we are faced with something we would have preferred never took place. Coohil, if you wanna go that route but does the name "Southern Belle" aka Rhonda maybe ring a belle?
You flirted with her for months on end yet now you've forgotten her? For shame! I will e-mail her immediately and ask her if she maybe remembers you. :wah:
Why don't you two get a room........
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Police accountability
SnoozeAgain;1368006 wrote: Probably because he's trying to stay on topic.
Blimey. Nobody ever thought one of my threads had a topic before, this is a first.
Blimey. Nobody ever thought one of my threads had a topic before, this is a first.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Police accountability
spot;1368017 wrote: Blimey. Nobody ever thought one of my threads had a topic before, this is a first.
I tend to get confused in my dotage but "Police Accountability" usually doesn't have anything to do with online dalliances. I could be wrong however.
I tend to get confused in my dotage but "Police Accountability" usually doesn't have anything to do with online dalliances. I could be wrong however.