Let's look at this in terms of what the UK threat to invade Ecuador's embassy really means. I'd like the thread to not be about whether or not Assange committed any crimes (because he hasn't been charged with any) but rather about the massive implications of the UK even thinking to make that threat over someone not charged with a crime. Lets pretend it's not Assange for a minute and imagine a generic person.
1) We have Sweden being granted a Red Notice from Interpol for a person not charged with a crime. Interpol mandates that they will not issue notices based on requests of "a political, military, religious or racial character." If Sweden has done so, and Interpol allowed to be used in such a way, we have the downfall of Interpol to consider.
2) We have Sweden refusing to question Assange by other acceptable and oft used methods which, if it were to do, would put an end to the diplomatic crisis in minutes. The current policing costs to taxpayers in the UK are tremendous. We also have Sweden refusing to assure Ecuador that Assange will not be extradited to another country after their investigation. So we have how Sweden let their courts be used.
3) We have the US refusing to assure they will not seek extradition of Assange if he is released to Sweden. We have the US stating that they don't seek to persecute Assange... followed by a statement that persecution and prosecution are different things. We don't have to consider whether the US is being dishonest because it's no great shocker.
4) We have the UK threatening to invade a foreign embassy to get a person not charged with a crime. It's unprecedented. It's outrageous. It's not something a country would do lest all embassies become meaningless. It's not something a country would do... period. The UK needs to answer questions on why it would even think to threaten such actions over a man not even charged with a crime.
It is unreasonable to question whether or not the US is manipulating the governments and court systems of other countries. What world do we live in? We need to be afraid. This is not about Assange.
If people continue to claim blindness to what just happened here we're sunk... as a global community. Atlantis kind of sunk.
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The law which Britain Is threatening to Invoke In the Assange case Is the Diplomatic and Consular Premises Act 1987,In short, It allows the UK to revoke the diplomatic Immunity of an embassy on UK soil.
Diplomatic and Consular Premises Act 1987
Diplomatic and Consular Premises Act 1987
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That law was devised after someone shot a police officer from inside the Libyan embassy. It is designed to only be used when there is a threat to the British public. Assange is not posing a threat to the public.
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koan;1401173 wrote: That law was devised after someone shot a police officer from inside the Libyan embassy. It is designed to only be used when there is a threat to the British public. Assange is not posing a threat to the public.
I couldn't agree with you more. The whole thing stinks.
I couldn't agree with you more. The whole thing stinks.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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I think the key to unravelling the sweater of abuse that has been globally warming world politics is to avoid "conspiracy theory" traps. We need to build a solid picture of facts that can stand up to scrutiny and use it to set a new compass for both international relationships and the ability for nations to truly self-determine again.
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koan;1401175 wrote: I think the key to unravelling the sweater of abuse that has been globally warming world politics is to avoid "conspiracy theory" traps. We need to build a solid picture of facts that can stand up to scrutiny and use it to set a new compass for both international relationships and the ability for nations to truly self-determine again.
Agreed. However, the cynic in me has come to believe that the devolution of humanity makes this impossible. "Conspiracy theory" traps are the new opiate for those masses who never allow the facts to get in the way of their opinions. I blame Jerry Springer.
Agreed. However, the cynic in me has come to believe that the devolution of humanity makes this impossible. "Conspiracy theory" traps are the new opiate for those masses who never allow the facts to get in the way of their opinions. I blame Jerry Springer.
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BH672;1401187 wrote: Agreed. However, the cynic in me has come to believe that the devolution of humanity makes this impossible. "Conspiracy theory" traps are the new opiate for those masses who never allow the facts to get in the way of their opinions. I blame Jerry Springer.
That's a thoroughly enjoyable paragraph.
Lots to think about. Hopefully enough distinguished people will step up with facts and insights that will cut through the Orwellian clouds. I'm usually left wondering why evidence is never enough to cause action.
That's a thoroughly enjoyable paragraph.
Lots to think about. Hopefully enough distinguished people will step up with facts and insights that will cut through the Orwellian clouds. I'm usually left wondering why evidence is never enough to cause action.
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'Not even in Cold War
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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George Galloway is speaking up. I'm not sure he counts as a 'distinguished people' but he has a way of putting it all out there in a straight forward manner.
Julian Assange 1 'Safe Passage To Ecuador?' [Comment George Galloway]
it loses steam when he takes callers.
Julian Assange 1 'Safe Passage To Ecuador?' [Comment George Galloway]
it loses steam when he takes callers.
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oscar;1401244 wrote: 'Not even in Cold War
That's a good article.
I read it earlier and almost posted.
The most intriguing thing I've read that isn't just edging around saying something is Craig Murray who claimed he saw proof that Obama was pressuring the UK to invade, but no release of what the proof was. I want him to share his source.
That's a good article.
I read it earlier and almost posted.
The most intriguing thing I've read that isn't just edging around saying something is Craig Murray who claimed he saw proof that Obama was pressuring the UK to invade, but no release of what the proof was. I want him to share his source.
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I'm sure somebody is pressuring somebody, fact is we'll never know for sure. I don't think his statement is far from the truth so it's good enough for me. As individuals we'll never have the whole story, we have to put the pieces of the puzzle together and come to our own conclusions. The standards of sophistication in this media controlled society are not very high, basically just dogma so we have to get everything we can and ignore nothing.
I think that all of this is about shutting people up, it's a threat to all people of the media laid down with a broad brush. They're saying to all publishers and writers that if they don't toe the line there will be a price to pay. If they do invade the embassy they will also send another message, we'll do exactly what we want to you. Nobody will have the balls to stand up with the exceptions of Russia or China.
I look at the world and I have to wonder where we are going.
I think that all of this is about shutting people up, it's a threat to all people of the media laid down with a broad brush. They're saying to all publishers and writers that if they don't toe the line there will be a price to pay. If they do invade the embassy they will also send another message, we'll do exactly what we want to you. Nobody will have the balls to stand up with the exceptions of Russia or China.
I look at the world and I have to wonder where we are going.
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The ongoing attacks against whistleblowers and journalists is a pretty serious issue. I think of Assange more as a publisher since he doesn't fashion info into a story, he just publishes it online. Journalists shape the info either to their liking or to someone else's guidelines. You can see the dangers of storytelling as news in how The New York Times presented some of the cables vs what the cables actually said. No time to find the story at the moment but will try to find links tonight.
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I think of Assange more as a publisher since he doesn't fashion info into a story, he just publishes it online.
Exactly. Assange is a publisher, he published documents given to him by someone else. Where is the freedom when you cannot publish documents given to you without fear of reprisal?
Exactly. Assange is a publisher, he published documents given to him by someone else. Where is the freedom when you cannot publish documents given to you without fear of reprisal?
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The irony of taking refuge in the embassy of a government that imprisons people for criticising them seems to escape assange.
George Galloway too has a reputation for rather sordid behaviour towards women. Not something you will see in the press though as it's hearsay.
George Galloway too has a reputation for rather sordid behaviour towards women. Not something you will see in the press though as it's hearsay.
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gmc;1401417 wrote: The irony of taking refuge in the embassy of a government that imprisons people for criticising them seems to escape assange.
George Galloway too has a reputation for rather sordid behaviour towards women. Not something you will see in the press though as it's hearsay.
He's not doing his cause any good. Europeans aren't like americans it's unlikely he would be extradited to the states and if he was there is the european court of human rights that would probably get involved - it's abit different when he is beinfg extradited for a crime that is not political. I doubt the US would be stupid enough to create a martyr to free speech even if they did succeed. What's happening to Bradley Manning? how long has he been held without trial? The US is making itself a laughing stock by lecturing others on human rights while at the same time holding people without trial and torturing them.
George Galloway too has a reputation for rather sordid behaviour towards women. Not something you will see in the press though as it's hearsay.
He's not doing his cause any good. Europeans aren't like americans it's unlikely he would be extradited to the states and if he was there is the european court of human rights that would probably get involved - it's abit different when he is beinfg extradited for a crime that is not political. I doubt the US would be stupid enough to create a martyr to free speech even if they did succeed. What's happening to Bradley Manning? how long has he been held without trial? The US is making itself a laughing stock by lecturing others on human rights while at the same time holding people without trial and torturing them.
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gmc;1401417 wrote: The irony of taking refuge in the embassy of a government that imprisons people for criticising them seems to escape assange.
George Galloway too has a reputation for rather sordid behaviour towards women. Not something you will see in the press though as it's hearsay. Met him briefly on a rally... he's an arssehole. He make Nick look Charismatic.
George Galloway too has a reputation for rather sordid behaviour towards women. Not something you will see in the press though as it's hearsay. Met him briefly on a rally... he's an arssehole. He make Nick look Charismatic.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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oscar;1401422 wrote: Met him briefly on a rally... he's an arssehole. He make Nick look Charismatic.
I make Nick look charismatic
I make Nick look charismatic
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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Bruv;1401430 wrote: I make Nick look charismatic
Seriously, Galloway Is an egoist and loathed by all warring factions of Nationalist Parties. He loves himself. Nick despises him and calls him The Traitor.
Meanwhile back In Blighty land, Julian Assange pokes his head over the balcony of the Ecudorian Embassy and begs Obama to call off the witch-hunt.
Seriously, Galloway Is an egoist and loathed by all warring factions of Nationalist Parties. He loves himself. Nick despises him and calls him The Traitor.
Meanwhile back In Blighty land, Julian Assange pokes his head over the balcony of the Ecudorian Embassy and begs Obama to call off the witch-hunt.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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oscar;1401422 wrote: Met him briefly on a rally... he's an arssehole. He make Nick look Charismatic.
He is a reasonably good debater though - or his opponents are really crap, take your pick. What was he doing at a BNP rally?
He is a reasonably good debater though - or his opponents are really crap, take your pick. What was he doing at a BNP rally?
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gmc;1401433 wrote: He is a reasonably good debater though - or his opponents are really crap, take your pick. What was he doing at a BNP rally?
Oh yeah... He's a Master Bater all right.
He was supporting the UAF... He;d support a dog terd If he thought he'd get votes.
Oh yeah... He's a Master Bater all right.
He was supporting the UAF... He;d support a dog terd If he thought he'd get votes.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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oscar;1401434 wrote: Oh yeah... He's a Master Bater all right.
He was supporting the UAF... He;d support a dog terd If he thought he'd get votes.
Not really, he's been fairly consistent with his politics over the years. You could argue he and nick have the same integrity in advocating what they believe despite the hostility their views attract. Tony and gordon took a at least nominally left wing party and turned it in to tory light because they thought that is what would get them elected - they were right about that weren't they.
He was supporting the UAF... He;d support a dog terd If he thought he'd get votes.
Not really, he's been fairly consistent with his politics over the years. You could argue he and nick have the same integrity in advocating what they believe despite the hostility their views attract. Tony and gordon took a at least nominally left wing party and turned it in to tory light because they thought that is what would get them elected - they were right about that weren't they.
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gmc;1401418 wrote: He's not doing his cause any good. Europeans aren't like americans it's unlikely he would be extradited to the states and if he was there is the european court of human rights that would probably get involved - it's abit different when he is beinfg extradited for a crime that is not political. I doubt the US would be stupid enough to create a martyr to free speech even if they did succeed. What's happening to Bradley Manning? how long has he been held without trial? The US is making itself a laughing stock by lecturing others on human rights while at the same time holding people without trial and torturing them.
That's the point of the thread, in a way. Sweden and the UK seem to be doing the bidding of the US. Europeans are exactly like Americans if they are doing the bidding of the Americans. That's why I want to see this issue pressed until answers are had. I want justification as to why the embassy was threatened over a man not even charged with a crime.
I want to know if Assange has been "secretly indited" because I rather prefer when "America's Most Wanted" appear on a published list. They assassinate people with drones now. If you're meant to be out dodging drone attacks I think you should know that dodge ball is on first so you might turn yourself in... if so inclined.
That's the point of the thread, in a way. Sweden and the UK seem to be doing the bidding of the US. Europeans are exactly like Americans if they are doing the bidding of the Americans. That's why I want to see this issue pressed until answers are had. I want justification as to why the embassy was threatened over a man not even charged with a crime.
I want to know if Assange has been "secretly indited" because I rather prefer when "America's Most Wanted" appear on a published list. They assassinate people with drones now. If you're meant to be out dodging drone attacks I think you should know that dodge ball is on first so you might turn yourself in... if so inclined.
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koan;1401467 wrote: That's the point of the thread, in a way. Sweden and the UK seem to be doing the bidding of the US. Europeans are exactly like Americans if they are doing the bidding of the Americans. That's why I want to see this issue pressed until answers are had. I want justification as to why the embassy was threatened over a man not even charged with a crime.
I want to know if Assange has been "secretly indited" because I rather prefer when "America's Most Wanted" appear on a published list. They assassinate people with drones now. If you're meant to be out dodging drone attacks I think you should know that dodge ball is on first so you might turn yourself in... if so inclined.
That's why imo he should go back to sweden. If he is subsequently handed over to the states it would show up exactly what is going on. The resulting outcry would bring down governments. WShat he has done is not viewed as treason anywhere else but in the states. The notion that a foreign national can be sent for and brought to trial for treason doing something that is not a crime in his own country is a ludicrous one that only an american can consider justified. The US is heading for a very dark place.
I want to know if Assange has been "secretly indited" because I rather prefer when "America's Most Wanted" appear on a published list. They assassinate people with drones now. If you're meant to be out dodging drone attacks I think you should know that dodge ball is on first so you might turn yourself in... if so inclined.
That's why imo he should go back to sweden. If he is subsequently handed over to the states it would show up exactly what is going on. The resulting outcry would bring down governments. WShat he has done is not viewed as treason anywhere else but in the states. The notion that a foreign national can be sent for and brought to trial for treason doing something that is not a crime in his own country is a ludicrous one that only an american can consider justified. The US is heading for a very dark place.