Whats the difference ?
That is a rhetorical question.... I think I know.
How can any Government not do something about the likes of Google, Amazon, and now Starbucks I don't know.
I can half understand Google and Facebook having tax dodges because they are internet companies. But when a company like Starbucks with a physical presence on many High streets selling an actual product in the UK can get away with making a loss on paper beggars belief to me.
It could be said they have an unfair advantage
Tax evasion tax avoidance
Tax evasion tax avoidance
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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Accountable
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Tax evasion tax avoidance
Just curious, does British Starbucks offer fru-fru teas at triple the price like they do coffee?
Tax evasion tax avoidance
Burger King and others simply declared that the "recipe" for each of their sandwiches and drinks is "intellectual property" that is owned by their entities located in tax havens. Thus, every time they make one, they owe money to that entity as a cost of doing business. That creates a steady stream of money to their tax haven. I'd be surprised if Starbucks doesn't do the same. In addition, Starbucks stores are not franchises - they are company owned. Thus, the cost of opening all of those new stores is a business loss to offset their profits.
Tax evasion tax avoidance
We really need to close these loopholes.
I expressly forbid the use of any of my posts anywhere outside of FG (with the exception of the incredibly witty 'get a room already' )posted recently.
Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6
Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6
Tax evasion tax avoidance
Why? The libertarian view is to abolish taxes. Abolish - avoid paying; close enough.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,â€
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
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Oscar Namechange
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Tax evasion tax avoidance
The tax system has been unfair In the UK and all I hear Is people wanting the rich taxed higher. I am totally against It. While some are born Into the Gentry, taxing the rich In an absurd manner simply because they have more than the rest of us Is counter-productive. All we do Is drive them over-sea's and their money Into offshore accounts.
Why should someone like Lord Sugar be taxed higher than the rest of us? He may be a multi-millionaire now but he started life selling dodgy car ariel's out of a car boot In Streatham High Street and has grafted for every penny. Why should the likes of Mick Jagger be driven over-sea's because he happened to have a talent and became an astute business man and Invested his earnings wisely?
If you keep the rich Inside their own country by being fair, you keep their money In the country which In turn helps the economy and the job market.
Why should someone like Lord Sugar be taxed higher than the rest of us? He may be a multi-millionaire now but he started life selling dodgy car ariel's out of a car boot In Streatham High Street and has grafted for every penny. Why should the likes of Mick Jagger be driven over-sea's because he happened to have a talent and became an astute business man and Invested his earnings wisely?
If you keep the rich Inside their own country by being fair, you keep their money In the country which In turn helps the economy and the job market.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Tax evasion tax avoidance
Don't think either Sugar or Jagger are fair comparisons.
One is a bit of a chancer who fell on his feet due to pure luck................and the other one is Mick Jagger.
Variation on an old joke................but very nearly true.
Sugar made his money and pays tax in the UK and lives here, as far as I know.
Jagger and his chums are just greedy
But that has nothing to do with successful multinational companies who use the rules to evade paying tax, and by doing so get an unfair advantage over UK companies.
I can't complain of the companies doing anything that is legal to pay as little tax as possible, but as soon as the loopholes become obvious they should be closed, and I would close them retrospectively, harvesting unpaid tax, making the tax avoidance industry less attractive.
One is a bit of a chancer who fell on his feet due to pure luck................and the other one is Mick Jagger.
Variation on an old joke................but very nearly true.
Sugar made his money and pays tax in the UK and lives here, as far as I know.
Jagger and his chums are just greedy
But that has nothing to do with successful multinational companies who use the rules to evade paying tax, and by doing so get an unfair advantage over UK companies.
I can't complain of the companies doing anything that is legal to pay as little tax as possible, but as soon as the loopholes become obvious they should be closed, and I would close them retrospectively, harvesting unpaid tax, making the tax avoidance industry less attractive.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Tax evasion tax avoidance
The problem is that the politicians don't really want to simplify the tax code and make it more equitable. They will all pontificate at great length about its inequities and about closing the myriad loopholes while glossing over the fact that it is the politicians who created these. Each special interest group will unleash its lobbyists to bribe the politicians into keeping their favorite loopholes while decrying the loopholes used by others. As long as big money controls the politicians, no progress will be made.
Tax evasion tax avoidance
Ahso!;1408392 wrote: Why? The libertarian view is to abolish taxes. Abolish - avoid paying; close enough.
Libertarianism like communism is a utopian fantasy that in reality can never work.
posted by oscar
The tax system has been unfair In the UK and all I hear Is people wanting the rich taxed higher. I am totally against It. While some are born Into the Gentry, taxing the rich In an absurd manner simply because they have more than the rest of us Is counter-productive. All we do Is drive them over-sea's and their money Into offshore accounts.
Why should someone like Lord Sugar be taxed higher than the rest of us? He may be a multi-millionaire now but he started life selling dodgy car ariel's out of a car boot In Streatham High Street and has grafted for every penny. Why should the likes of Mick Jagger be driven over-sea's because he happened to have a talent and became an astute business man and Invested his earnings wisely?
If you keep the rich Inside their own country by being fair, you keep their money In the country which In turn helps the economy and the job market.
The first half of the first sentence i would agree with the rest is bollocks.
Libertarianism like communism is a utopian fantasy that in reality can never work.
posted by oscar
The tax system has been unfair In the UK and all I hear Is people wanting the rich taxed higher. I am totally against It. While some are born Into the Gentry, taxing the rich In an absurd manner simply because they have more than the rest of us Is counter-productive. All we do Is drive them over-sea's and their money Into offshore accounts.
Why should someone like Lord Sugar be taxed higher than the rest of us? He may be a multi-millionaire now but he started life selling dodgy car ariel's out of a car boot In Streatham High Street and has grafted for every penny. Why should the likes of Mick Jagger be driven over-sea's because he happened to have a talent and became an astute business man and Invested his earnings wisely?
If you keep the rich Inside their own country by being fair, you keep their money In the country which In turn helps the economy and the job market.
The first half of the first sentence i would agree with the rest is bollocks.
Tax evasion tax avoidance
gmc;1408459 wrote:
.......the rest is bollocks.
I wish you wouldn't sit on the fence when discussing important socio-political and economic ideas.
Come to think of it, it pretty well sums up the way I feel about Multi National corporate greed....Its Bollocks with a capital B.I have to pay my tax so Amazon should pay their fair share too
.......the rest is bollocks.
I wish you wouldn't sit on the fence when discussing important socio-political and economic ideas.
Come to think of it, it pretty well sums up the way I feel about Multi National corporate greed....Its Bollocks with a capital B.I have to pay my tax so Amazon should pay their fair share too
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
Tax evasion tax avoidance
MT took a look at Starbucks’ latest filing at Companies House and found the root cause of the loss. Starbucks puts its ‘cost of sales’ at £319m for the last financial year. This includes £124m of staff costs, an undisclosed sum paid in rent, and an £8.9m tax credit from 2010. It also pays its Seattle parent company 6% royalties – more than most franchisees pay. That left a gross profit of £78.4m, which is when Starbucks whacks on £107.2m in ‘administrative expenses’. That takes the company to an operating loss of £28.8m and a loss before tax of £32.9m.
That’s one expensive administrative function…
That’s one expensive administrative function…
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Tax evasion tax avoidance
Global coffee chain Starbucks has said it is in talks with HM Revenue and Customs and the Treasury over how much UK tax it pays
Well ain't that bloody good of them ?
Well ain't that bloody good of them ?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Tax evasion tax avoidance
I don't really know but i suspect it dawned on them that a mass boycott might ensue if they didn't do something quickly. Be interesting to see what amazon do, unfortunately we have allowed them to become a monopoly almost.
Tax evasion tax avoidance
It's only because Amazon are the best at what they do, like Google.
Perhaps if they were on a level playing field they wouldn't be, and that is the crime.
Starbucks are just another coffee shop as far as I am concerned, who have an advantage over native coffee shops, that shouldn't happen.
Perhaps if they were on a level playing field they wouldn't be, and that is the crime.
Starbucks are just another coffee shop as far as I am concerned, who have an advantage over native coffee shops, that shouldn't happen.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Tax evasion tax avoidance
I would thing that tax evasion is when you actually owe a tax and take deliberate steps not to pay it, and tax avoidance is when you take legal steps to avoid having to pay any tax.
Big difference.
Big difference.
Tax evasion tax avoidance
Bruv;1411744 wrote: It's only because Amazon are the best at what they do, like Google.
Perhaps if they were on a level playing field they wouldn't be, and that is the crime.
Starbucks are just another coffee shop as far as I am concerned, who have an advantage over native coffee shops, that shouldn't happen.
That's what I meant, it's not a level playing field any more the cost of entry for a competitor would be prohibitive, we have a Competition Commission it's something they need to look at. Monopolies are very bad for business.
Perhaps if they were on a level playing field they wouldn't be, and that is the crime.
Starbucks are just another coffee shop as far as I am concerned, who have an advantage over native coffee shops, that shouldn't happen.
That's what I meant, it's not a level playing field any more the cost of entry for a competitor would be prohibitive, we have a Competition Commission it's something they need to look at. Monopolies are very bad for business.
Tax evasion tax avoidance
mikeinie;1411763 wrote: I would thing that tax evasion is when you actually owe a tax and take deliberate steps not to pay it, and tax avoidance is when you take legal steps to avoid having to pay any tax.
Big difference.
Bruv;1408377 wrote: Whats the difference ?
That is a rhetorical question.... I think I know.
There is tax evasion and aggressive tax avoidance, evasion is legal, aggressive avoidance is legal also, Governments should remove any incentives to aggressively avoid paying tax.
Big difference.
Bruv;1408377 wrote: Whats the difference ?
That is a rhetorical question.... I think I know.
There is tax evasion and aggressive tax avoidance, evasion is legal, aggressive avoidance is legal also, Governments should remove any incentives to aggressively avoid paying tax.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Tax evasion tax avoidance
Bruv;1411787 wrote: There is tax evasion and aggressive tax avoidance, evasion is legal, aggressive avoidance is legal also, Governments should remove any incentives to aggressively avoid paying tax.
Surely not - tax evasion is the use of illegal means to evade the payment of tax whereas tax avoidance is the use of legal schemes to avoid payment.
Indeed, the UK tax return has a section where you list the tax avoidance schemes you have used during the tax year.
Surely not - tax evasion is the use of illegal means to evade the payment of tax whereas tax avoidance is the use of legal schemes to avoid payment.
Indeed, the UK tax return has a section where you list the tax avoidance schemes you have used during the tax year.
Tax evasion tax avoidance
Bryn Mawr;1411810 wrote: Surely not - tax evasion is the use of illegal means to evade the payment of tax whereas tax avoidance is the use of legal schemes to avoid payment.
Indeed, the UK tax return has a section where you list the tax avoidance schemes you have used during the tax year.
I got my words wrong.
I think I meant tax avoidance is legal, tax evasion is illegal, aggressive tax avoidance should be illegal, and it is down to Government to act.
Indeed, the UK tax return has a section where you list the tax avoidance schemes you have used during the tax year.
I got my words wrong.
I think I meant tax avoidance is legal, tax evasion is illegal, aggressive tax avoidance should be illegal, and it is down to Government to act.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Tax evasion tax avoidance
Starbucks is to pay £10m in taxes over the next two years as it restructures its complex structure which has seen its UK operation pay no corporation tax in the past three years.
Kris Engskov, managing director of Starbucks UK, said even if the company failed to make a profit – due to a series of payments to various European subsidiaries – it will still make the unprecedented payment to HM Revenue and Customs.
He said the anger among consumers over revelations that the coffee chain paid just £8.6m in corporation tax since arriving in the UK 14 years ago, despite sales of £3bn, "has taken us a bit by surprise", suggesting sales had been hit as customers boycott the stores.
Looks like they don't mind paying more if pressed by a public boycott, why shouldn't the government be doing the leaning on them ?
Kris Engskov, managing director of Starbucks UK, said even if the company failed to make a profit – due to a series of payments to various European subsidiaries – it will still make the unprecedented payment to HM Revenue and Customs.
He said the anger among consumers over revelations that the coffee chain paid just £8.6m in corporation tax since arriving in the UK 14 years ago, despite sales of £3bn, "has taken us a bit by surprise", suggesting sales had been hit as customers boycott the stores.
Looks like they don't mind paying more if pressed by a public boycott, why shouldn't the government be doing the leaning on them ?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Tax evasion tax avoidance
Bruv;1411827 wrote: Starbucks is to pay £10m in taxes over the next two years as it restructures its complex structure which has seen its UK operation pay no corporation tax in the past three years.
Kris Engskov, managing director of Starbucks UK, said even if the company failed to make a profit – due to a series of payments to various European subsidiaries – it will still make the unprecedented payment to HM Revenue and Customs.
He said the anger among consumers over revelations that the coffee chain paid just £8.6m in corporation tax since arriving in the UK 14 years ago, despite sales of £3bn, "has taken us a bit by surprise", suggesting sales had been hit as customers boycott the stores.
Looks like they don't mind paying more if pressed by a public boycott, why shouldn't the government be doing the leaning on them ?
They should, heavily - like they do on the rest of us.
Kris Engskov, managing director of Starbucks UK, said even if the company failed to make a profit – due to a series of payments to various European subsidiaries – it will still make the unprecedented payment to HM Revenue and Customs.
He said the anger among consumers over revelations that the coffee chain paid just £8.6m in corporation tax since arriving in the UK 14 years ago, despite sales of £3bn, "has taken us a bit by surprise", suggesting sales had been hit as customers boycott the stores.
Looks like they don't mind paying more if pressed by a public boycott, why shouldn't the government be doing the leaning on them ?
They should, heavily - like they do on the rest of us.
Tax evasion tax avoidance
They should, heavily - like they do on the rest of us.
Their argument is that we need to encourage overseas business to set up here, and think of all the jobs, if we pressure them too much they will pack up and go home.
I would take the gamble.
Their argument is that we need to encourage overseas business to set up here, and think of all the jobs, if we pressure them too much they will pack up and go home.
I would take the gamble.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Tax evasion tax avoidance
Bruv;1411840 wrote: Their argument is that we need to encourage overseas business to set up here, and think of all the jobs, if we pressure them too much they will pack up and go home.
I would take the gamble.
If we have laws we should enforce them on all concerned.
If we intend to let multinationals off cheep then the laws should reflect it and we should be open and above board.
What is happening now is illegal and immoral.
I would take the gamble.
If we have laws we should enforce them on all concerned.
If we intend to let multinationals off cheep then the laws should reflect it and we should be open and above board.
What is happening now is illegal and immoral.
Tax evasion tax avoidance
Have you heard or seen the new hmrc advert about Tax cheats?
HMRC launches ad campaign targeting tax cheats | News | Money Marketing
Heard it on the radio today while at work. Luckily by the time i got to the hammer I had calmed down and refrained from smashing the radio to bits.
HMRC launches ad campaign targeting tax cheats | News | Money Marketing
Heard it on the radio today while at work. Luckily by the time i got to the hammer I had calmed down and refrained from smashing the radio to bits.
Tax evasion tax avoidance
Bryn Mawr;1411842 wrote: If we have laws we should enforce them on all concerned.
If we intend to let multinationals off cheep then the laws should reflect it and we should be open and above board.
What is happening now is illegal and immoral.
I agree it is immoral, but the point is it is NOT illegal the way the companies set their selves up, I did have a link that explained the palaver they get up to.
Here it is scroll to A Licence to loose money
If we intend to let multinationals off cheep then the laws should reflect it and we should be open and above board.
What is happening now is illegal and immoral.
I agree it is immoral, but the point is it is NOT illegal the way the companies set their selves up, I did have a link that explained the palaver they get up to.
Here it is scroll to A Licence to loose money
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth