Don't put killer children on trial say magistrates...
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Don't put killer children on trial say magistrates...
Don't put killer children on trial, say magistrates: Bulger murderers and child rioters would have not criminal records under new plan to raise age of responsibility from ten to 14 | Mail Online
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Don't put killer children on trial say magistrates...
It's an inflammatory headline but it is the Daily Mail so we can always assume there is more to the story than meets the eye. Within the article are some very salient and important points which contradict the need for the two photographs, which help the Mail push their distasteful agenda a bit harder.
'Unless a child is too dangerous to be free they should be dealt with within the community,' said Mr Stanley.
He also claimed that the cut-off point of ten was arbitrary. 'Research shows important areas of the brain are not fully developed until well into teenage years, particularly if people have been abused.'
The Daily Mail assesses that Venables and Thompson would not face a court but that is a figment and far from what has been suggested. It's entirely in line with Daily Mail journalism and an example of everything I detest about that rag
It's time we saw less demonising of children. I think the proposals have some merit
'Unless a child is too dangerous to be free they should be dealt with within the community,' said Mr Stanley.
He also claimed that the cut-off point of ten was arbitrary. 'Research shows important areas of the brain are not fully developed until well into teenage years, particularly if people have been abused.'
The Daily Mail assesses that Venables and Thompson would not face a court but that is a figment and far from what has been suggested. It's entirely in line with Daily Mail journalism and an example of everything I detest about that rag
It's time we saw less demonising of children. I think the proposals have some merit
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
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Don't put killer children on trial say magistrates...
Snowfire;1410141 wrote: It's an inflammatory headline but it is the Daily Mail so we can always assume there is more to the story than meets the eye. Within the article are some very salient and important points which contradict the need for the two photographs, which help the Mail push their distasteful agenda a bit harder.
The Daily Mail assesses that Venables and Thompson would not face a court but that is a figment and far from what has been suggested. It's entirely in line with Daily Mail journalism and an example of everything I detest about that rag
It's time we saw less demonising of children. I think the proposals have some merit
Restorative Justice was one of Gordon Brown's brainwaves under the previous labour government and many argue that It has failed.
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The problem Is unless you address other factors, restorative justice Is doomed to fail. Those factors being that social services already can not cope and under-manned police forces also can not cope. Care homes have also been closed across the country and places for children who have already committed very serious crimes are very far and few between.
The Daily Mail assesses that Venables and Thompson would not face a court but that is a figment and far from what has been suggested. It's entirely in line with Daily Mail journalism and an example of everything I detest about that rag
It's time we saw less demonising of children. I think the proposals have some merit
Restorative Justice was one of Gordon Brown's brainwaves under the previous labour government and many argue that It has failed.
Books
The problem Is unless you address other factors, restorative justice Is doomed to fail. Those factors being that social services already can not cope and under-manned police forces also can not cope. Care homes have also been closed across the country and places for children who have already committed very serious crimes are very far and few between.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Don't put killer children on trial say magistrates...
You surely can't think filling our prisons up with children a preferable option. The options put forward by the magistrate in question isnt suggesting restorative justice. This is the proper consideration of the background to establish the reason behind offending. Children are plasticine and need to be molded by the society in which we want them to live otherwise all they have to look forward to is life of perpetual misery and a cycle of crime. Prison is not the environment in which we should be subjecting them and is the worst place to learn how to fulfill the rest of your life.
We all make bad judgments in life, most of them as a kid. We owe our children a way back from those bad decisions and not have the prison door slammed behind them by the "hang 'em high " brigade that troll through the pages of the Daily Mail
The fact that our social services cannot cope or that our police forces are undermanned is no excuse for overloading a crowded prison system with children. If that is done, they're doomed the moment they step through those doors. How we give these kids a helping hand through life is far more important
I'm so angry at the Mail's disgraceful reporting in this case, though hardly suprised. The headline and subsequent photographs paint an all together different picture to reality and to what was actually proposed. The best place for that sad attempt at journalism is best kept at the bottom of my grand kids hamster cage. There, it will find a much more selective readership and a much more appropriate response, with Pepper the hamster, to its stinking articles.
We all make bad judgments in life, most of them as a kid. We owe our children a way back from those bad decisions and not have the prison door slammed behind them by the "hang 'em high " brigade that troll through the pages of the Daily Mail
The fact that our social services cannot cope or that our police forces are undermanned is no excuse for overloading a crowded prison system with children. If that is done, they're doomed the moment they step through those doors. How we give these kids a helping hand through life is far more important
I'm so angry at the Mail's disgraceful reporting in this case, though hardly suprised. The headline and subsequent photographs paint an all together different picture to reality and to what was actually proposed. The best place for that sad attempt at journalism is best kept at the bottom of my grand kids hamster cage. There, it will find a much more selective readership and a much more appropriate response, with Pepper the hamster, to its stinking articles.
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
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Don't put killer children on trial say magistrates...
Where have I said I want prisons stuffed full of children ?
The reason I relate the story to Restorative Justice Is an example of how you can not just replace one system with another without the right back up measures In place.
With decent secure units for serious child offences such as Vinney Green being shut down to save money, where do these children go ? What support Is In place when SS's are already overstretched ?
The reason I relate the story to Restorative Justice Is an example of how you can not just replace one system with another without the right back up measures In place.
With decent secure units for serious child offences such as Vinney Green being shut down to save money, where do these children go ? What support Is In place when SS's are already overstretched ?
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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the grumps
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Don't put killer children on trial say magistrates...
i totally agree oscar
these handwringing do gooders bleating for the little scroat is a load of b****cks
bring back detention centers and borstals and lock these little bas***ds away.
anything from a six week army style short sharp shock in detention centre
to 6 months to 2 years borstal training.
this sends out the message i can do what i like untill im 14 years old.
this is the wrong message to send out and the bleating lilly livered cowardly liberal do gooders must NOT get their way .
AA grumpy
these handwringing do gooders bleating for the little scroat is a load of b****cks
bring back detention centers and borstals and lock these little bas***ds away.
anything from a six week army style short sharp shock in detention centre
to 6 months to 2 years borstal training.
this sends out the message i can do what i like untill im 14 years old.
this is the wrong message to send out and the bleating lilly livered cowardly liberal do gooders must NOT get their way .
AA grumpy
Don't put killer children on trial say magistrates...
oscar;1410174 wrote: .....where do these children go ? .....
My point is, not to prison. Anywhere but. Extending the Social Services must be part and parcel of the options put forward. Rather that than extending the prisons.
That miserable rag should apologise for such a headline. It's so far away from the truth. Chris Stanley never at any stage in that article said "Don't put killer children in prison " He stated that if they were a danger to society then they would be sent to prison. Those that aren't should be dealt with within the community. This man has the best interest of children at heart and wants those that offend to be dealt with appropriately and the Mail has trodden all over it. Revolting !
"Magistrate has a alternative but reasonable idea for helping offending children. Deal with it in the community and only send those who are a risk to society to prison "
Sounds much more accurate but doesnt really pander to the Mails usual "Little Englanders" and their sh!t and derision
My point is, not to prison. Anywhere but. Extending the Social Services must be part and parcel of the options put forward. Rather that than extending the prisons.
That miserable rag should apologise for such a headline. It's so far away from the truth. Chris Stanley never at any stage in that article said "Don't put killer children in prison " He stated that if they were a danger to society then they would be sent to prison. Those that aren't should be dealt with within the community. This man has the best interest of children at heart and wants those that offend to be dealt with appropriately and the Mail has trodden all over it. Revolting !
"Magistrate has a alternative but reasonable idea for helping offending children. Deal with it in the community and only send those who are a risk to society to prison "
Sounds much more accurate but doesnt really pander to the Mails usual "Little Englanders" and their sh!t and derision
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
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Don't put killer children on trial say magistrates...
No sorry but I can't agree.
If a child any child commits a first offence for a minor misdemeanor, I am actually all for not criminalising that child and that Is often the case where Restorative Justice works.
The liberal Idea Is that we should not not criminalise the young because It will screw up their chances of getting jobs etc In the future. Fine In very young first offenders but what about the victims rights when It comes to some anti-social, thieving, looting nightmare? We know ASBO's have also been a dismal failure and this Is just another quick fix to growing numbers of youth crime.
If some 13 year old Is already a looting anti-social nightmare who doesn't give a toss about his victims, his chances of securing a decent job In the future are already gone.
It Is not right that any child under 14 can commit a serious offence, possibly a violent offence and not have that on their record for future employers to take Into consideration.
If a child any child commits a first offence for a minor misdemeanor, I am actually all for not criminalising that child and that Is often the case where Restorative Justice works.
The liberal Idea Is that we should not not criminalise the young because It will screw up their chances of getting jobs etc In the future. Fine In very young first offenders but what about the victims rights when It comes to some anti-social, thieving, looting nightmare? We know ASBO's have also been a dismal failure and this Is just another quick fix to growing numbers of youth crime.
If some 13 year old Is already a looting anti-social nightmare who doesn't give a toss about his victims, his chances of securing a decent job In the future are already gone.
It Is not right that any child under 14 can commit a serious offence, possibly a violent offence and not have that on their record for future employers to take Into consideration.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Don't put killer children on trial say magistrates...
It has not been suggested that serious offences are not dealt with seriously. Those of a violent nature will still be dealt with appropriately. The article states that those who are threat to society will go to prison. The article is pretty vague about any of the proposals apart from the odd quote. For the most part it's conjecture on the Daily Mails part to stir the loins of "disgusted " from Tonbridge Wells
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
Don't put killer children on trial say magistrates...
the grumps;1410175 wrote: i totally agree oscar
these handwringing do gooders bleating for the little scroat is a load of b****cks
bring back detention centers and borstals and lock these little bas***ds away.
anything from a six week army style short sharp shock in detention centre
to 6 months to 2 years borstal training.
this sends out the message i can do what i like untill im 14 years old.
this is the wrong message to send out and the bleating lilly livered cowardly liberal do gooders must NOT get their way .
AA grumpy
The borstals and detention centres were scrapped by a right wing tory government because they DID NOT WORK. All they did was act as a training ground for young criminals.
this sends out the message i can do what i like untill im 14 years old.
That says great deal about your mentality. Just because you would take the opportunity to steal and riot doesn't mean all children would. The notion that people are only law abiding because they fear getting caught and going to prison and the peasanats need to be kept in their place is a ludicrous one beloved by the right wing gutter press. Ironic when you think about the things they have been getting up to.
No doubt it's because you were beaten as a child that you think it acceptable to hit children.
these handwringing do gooders bleating for the little scroat is a load of b****cks
bring back detention centers and borstals and lock these little bas***ds away.
anything from a six week army style short sharp shock in detention centre
to 6 months to 2 years borstal training.
this sends out the message i can do what i like untill im 14 years old.
this is the wrong message to send out and the bleating lilly livered cowardly liberal do gooders must NOT get their way .
AA grumpy
The borstals and detention centres were scrapped by a right wing tory government because they DID NOT WORK. All they did was act as a training ground for young criminals.
this sends out the message i can do what i like untill im 14 years old.
That says great deal about your mentality. Just because you would take the opportunity to steal and riot doesn't mean all children would. The notion that people are only law abiding because they fear getting caught and going to prison and the peasanats need to be kept in their place is a ludicrous one beloved by the right wing gutter press. Ironic when you think about the things they have been getting up to.
No doubt it's because you were beaten as a child that you think it acceptable to hit children.
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Don't put killer children on trial say magistrates...
Then what I'd like to see Is stats that show re-offending from children having been Inside prison and stats for re-offending under the liberal restorative justice system.
Yes, Borstal's were tough but then so are prisons... what next ? Do away with prisons because they are too tough ?
Another way of looking at It Is that some children can be rehabilitated early and some can't. You risk being far too soft on the one's who can't be rehabilitated In order to help the one's who can but meanwhile, the one's who can't go on to hurt someone else and notch up another victim and I think that Is a massive gamble to play with.
Yes, Borstal's were tough but then so are prisons... what next ? Do away with prisons because they are too tough ?
Another way of looking at It Is that some children can be rehabilitated early and some can't. You risk being far too soft on the one's who can't be rehabilitated In order to help the one's who can but meanwhile, the one's who can't go on to hurt someone else and notch up another victim and I think that Is a massive gamble to play with.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Don't put killer children on trial say magistrates...
Whatever the intention when they were introduced, borstals weren't tough, they were brutal. In my opinion that sort of environment just breeds harder criminals. Little credit is given to the Probationary service, who strive to stop re-offending in a humane and appropriate way. They produce better people than any prison could ever hope to.
I've never suggested that those violent and seasoned criminals don't get prison sentences. It would be appropriate for many of them to be separated from the rest society. Criminals that show signs of continually being a threat to society should never be released. I'm not suggesting prison life should be easy, for some it is the easy option. 3 meals a day and a warm comfortable bed. For most though, it's a brutal, de-humanising environment and not one that often produces a better product at the end of it. It should be a place that emphasises entirely on rehabilitation and not merely on punishment
Isn't that after all, the basis on which we bring up our own children. We don't brutalise and punish them relentlessly and hope that the fear of punishment makes them a better person. We don't, or shouldn't train dogs with a large stick. Why do we consistantly do it with offenders and wonder why many of them re=offend.
All this man is saying is, perhaps there is a different approach that might produce better results and better people.
That's enough wish-washy, liberal, do-gooder hand wringing from me. I'm off to check the padlocks on the cupboard under the stairs. You can't be too careful with unruly Grandkids nowadays. Spare the rod and spoil the child and all that
I've never suggested that those violent and seasoned criminals don't get prison sentences. It would be appropriate for many of them to be separated from the rest society. Criminals that show signs of continually being a threat to society should never be released. I'm not suggesting prison life should be easy, for some it is the easy option. 3 meals a day and a warm comfortable bed. For most though, it's a brutal, de-humanising environment and not one that often produces a better product at the end of it. It should be a place that emphasises entirely on rehabilitation and not merely on punishment
Isn't that after all, the basis on which we bring up our own children. We don't brutalise and punish them relentlessly and hope that the fear of punishment makes them a better person. We don't, or shouldn't train dogs with a large stick. Why do we consistantly do it with offenders and wonder why many of them re=offend.
All this man is saying is, perhaps there is a different approach that might produce better results and better people.
That's enough wish-washy, liberal, do-gooder hand wringing from me. I'm off to check the padlocks on the cupboard under the stairs. You can't be too careful with unruly Grandkids nowadays. Spare the rod and spoil the child and all that
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
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Don't put killer children on trial say magistrates...
From someone who has been close enough to a 16 year old who at that age stood trial for murder, I wish he did go to Borstal when he started offending around the age of 14 years old. I don't know why he's like It, I don't care to know, I just thank god none of the rest of my family are like him Including his siblings who have been raised the same as him.
Since he was around 14 years old I have had to watch every department In this country pander to what Is basically a little s.hit. Prison services, family liason officers, parole officers, social services and worse his Mother. The result Is a complete arssehole who sticks two fingers up to the establishment and regardless of all the help he has received and for all the lenient namby pamby attitude to young offenders, he Is now back In prison having claimed another victim. Another youth who was tried with him Is also back in prison while their Mothers complain bitterly about how tough prison Is for them.... well tough.
It can be argued that If they wern't treated In such a loony leftie way In the first place, they wouldn't be where they are now at such a young age because they had all the help they needed when they were paroled the first time.
I won't make excuses for thugs like that and I wouldn't leave him alone with my cat let alone be faced with a choice of employing them In the future without prior knowledge of their criminal and violent pasts.
Since he was around 14 years old I have had to watch every department In this country pander to what Is basically a little s.hit. Prison services, family liason officers, parole officers, social services and worse his Mother. The result Is a complete arssehole who sticks two fingers up to the establishment and regardless of all the help he has received and for all the lenient namby pamby attitude to young offenders, he Is now back In prison having claimed another victim. Another youth who was tried with him Is also back in prison while their Mothers complain bitterly about how tough prison Is for them.... well tough.
It can be argued that If they wern't treated In such a loony leftie way In the first place, they wouldn't be where they are now at such a young age because they had all the help they needed when they were paroled the first time.
I won't make excuses for thugs like that and I wouldn't leave him alone with my cat let alone be faced with a choice of employing them In the future without prior knowledge of their criminal and violent pasts.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Don't put killer children on trial say magistrates...
I'm sure people like that are an exception to the rule. Not every offender is an arse. Most just end up making the wrong judgement, wrong place at the wrong time, in with the wrong crowd. Those are the people we need to offer a different way out and I suspect most would take it.
I'm sorry you have had to deal with the little sh!t and the disruption that he obviously wreaked. There might be no help for people like that, certainly not in the way of social or probationary. He will probably thrive in a prison environment and spend the rest of his life either offending or in prison, or indeed both. I'm not advocating any community service for such a seasoned criminal. I would and have already done so, suggest he stays away for the length of time he shows a propensity to be a threat to the public, however long that maybe, forever even.
Now, my right arm needs a little excercise. Where's my birch ?
*swish"
I'm sorry you have had to deal with the little sh!t and the disruption that he obviously wreaked. There might be no help for people like that, certainly not in the way of social or probationary. He will probably thrive in a prison environment and spend the rest of his life either offending or in prison, or indeed both. I'm not advocating any community service for such a seasoned criminal. I would and have already done so, suggest he stays away for the length of time he shows a propensity to be a threat to the public, however long that maybe, forever even.
Now, my right arm needs a little excercise. Where's my birch ?
*swish"
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
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the grumps
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Don't put killer children on trial say magistrates...
you are both talking liberal handwringing bollocks
read the AA grumpy column tonight is this how criminals should be treated
because its wrong
if borstals are brutal so be it they should not have broken the law to get themselves in that situation.
read the AA grumpy column tonight is this how criminals should be treated
because its wrong
if borstals are brutal so be it they should not have broken the law to get themselves in that situation.
Don't put killer children on trial say magistrates...
the grumps;1410205 wrote: you are both talking liberal handwringing bollocks
read the AA grumpy column tonight is this how criminals should be treated
because its wrong
if borstals are brutal so be it they should not have broken the law to get themselves in that situation.
Is that it ? That's the sum of you're thoughts. No insightful dialogue just the same, old hang em high, whip em hard, rub me down with the Daily Mail. Remove the blinkers once in a while and you will see a whole new world around you and not the shallow, insular, spiteful world you reside in
Now, excuse me, I have a belt to polish and some ears to thicken
read the AA grumpy column tonight is this how criminals should be treated
because its wrong
if borstals are brutal so be it they should not have broken the law to get themselves in that situation.
Is that it ? That's the sum of you're thoughts. No insightful dialogue just the same, old hang em high, whip em hard, rub me down with the Daily Mail. Remove the blinkers once in a while and you will see a whole new world around you and not the shallow, insular, spiteful world you reside in
Now, excuse me, I have a belt to polish and some ears to thicken
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
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Oscar Namechange
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Don't put killer children on trial say magistrates...
Snowfire;1410207 wrote: Is that it ? That's the sum of you're thoughts. No insightful dialogue just the same, old hang em high, whip em hard, rub me down with the Daily Mail. Remove the blinkers once in a while and you will see a whole new world around you and not the shallow, insular, spiteful world you reside in
Now, excuse me, I have a belt to polish and some ears to thicken
The namby pamby state could and I emphasise could, be responsible for young people like my family member sticking two fingers up to the establishment and re-offending.
But the cost and the price you pay for rehabilitating those that possibly can be rehabilitated Is the future victims of those who can't and won't be rehabilitated because some like my family member, thinks the world owes him a living for the privalige of him being born.
I don't think any government should gamble with future victims lives
My nephew since he was 14 has had thousands and thousands of £'s spent on him by all departments. On his release from prison, a mere 2 years for beating someone to death, he was given a council flat, money to buy furnature, a job was found for him and they basically wiped his backside for him pandering to his every whim. Even his Mother was given help to move house to avoid the gossips.... that's wrong and It's wrong on so many levels when decent young people are struggling to get on the property ladder and get work.... what did all their money buy ? Him back Inside and another victim. Because my belief, Is that he never saw any real deterrant, no real punsihment, no real hardship for his crime.... Yes, Borstal was brutal but few wanted to ever go back there again.
Now, excuse me, I have a belt to polish and some ears to thicken
The namby pamby state could and I emphasise could, be responsible for young people like my family member sticking two fingers up to the establishment and re-offending.
But the cost and the price you pay for rehabilitating those that possibly can be rehabilitated Is the future victims of those who can't and won't be rehabilitated because some like my family member, thinks the world owes him a living for the privalige of him being born.
I don't think any government should gamble with future victims lives
My nephew since he was 14 has had thousands and thousands of £'s spent on him by all departments. On his release from prison, a mere 2 years for beating someone to death, he was given a council flat, money to buy furnature, a job was found for him and they basically wiped his backside for him pandering to his every whim. Even his Mother was given help to move house to avoid the gossips.... that's wrong and It's wrong on so many levels when decent young people are struggling to get on the property ladder and get work.... what did all their money buy ? Him back Inside and another victim. Because my belief, Is that he never saw any real deterrant, no real punsihment, no real hardship for his crime.... Yes, Borstal was brutal but few wanted to ever go back there again.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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Oscar Namechange
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Don't put killer children on trial say magistrates...
the grumps;1410205 wrote: you are both talking liberal handwringing bollocks
read the AA grumpy column tonight is this how criminals should be treated
because its wrong
if borstals are brutal so be it they should not have broken the law to get themselves in that situation. I've been on Facebook too long... I just went to click ' like '
read the AA grumpy column tonight is this how criminals should be treated
because its wrong
if borstals are brutal so be it they should not have broken the law to get themselves in that situation. I've been on Facebook too long... I just went to click ' like '
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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Don't put killer children on trial say magistrates...
I dont' think Venables and Thompson should have ever been put in the media and exposed nor put on trial .
Don't put killer children on trial say magistrates...
oscar;1410216 wrote: The namby pamby state could and I emphasise could, be responsible for young people like my family member sticking two fingers up to the establishment and re-offending.
But the cost and the price you pay for rehabilitating those that possibly can be rehabilitated Is the future victims of those who can't and won't be rehabilitated because some like my family member, thinks the world owes him a living for the privalige of him being born.
I don't think any government should gamble with future victims lives
My nephew since he was 14 has had thousands and thousands of £'s spent on him by all departments. On his release from prison, a mere 2 years for beating someone to death, he was given a council flat, money to buy furnature, a job was found for him and they basically wiped his backside for him pandering to his every whim. Even his Mother was given help to move house to avoid the gossips.... that's wrong and It's wrong on so many levels when decent young people are struggling to get on the property ladder and get work.... what did all their money buy ? Him back Inside and another victim. Because my belief, Is that he never saw any real deterrant, no real punsihment, no real hardship for his crime.... Yes, Borstal was brutal but few wanted to ever go back there again.
What rubbish. Don't you read the daily mail? The parents are to blame for the behaviour of their children, was his mother a single parent living on benefits? What do you mean blaming the state for the behaviour of your relative at the end of the day it is his choice and his responsibility no one else's. You can't have it both ways we do not live in a society where the state is responsible for every aspect of someone's life. We do live in one where some attempt is made to find an alternative to draconian prison regimes that didn't work in the past and there is no reason to think they will now. . Some people are beyond help, them we should just lock away permanently. That he is a pathetic excuse for a human being is no one else's fault but his own, if he's niot responsible then maybe he shopul;d be shut away as feeble minded like they also used to do in the good old days to girls that got themselves pregnant out of wedlock.
I re-iterate, the bortals were abolished not by a liberal wishy washy government but by the tories. Borstal just served as a training ground for young criminals and left youngsters with a hatred for anyone in authority. Do some research on the matter it might surprise you.
But the cost and the price you pay for rehabilitating those that possibly can be rehabilitated Is the future victims of those who can't and won't be rehabilitated because some like my family member, thinks the world owes him a living for the privalige of him being born.
I don't think any government should gamble with future victims lives
My nephew since he was 14 has had thousands and thousands of £'s spent on him by all departments. On his release from prison, a mere 2 years for beating someone to death, he was given a council flat, money to buy furnature, a job was found for him and they basically wiped his backside for him pandering to his every whim. Even his Mother was given help to move house to avoid the gossips.... that's wrong and It's wrong on so many levels when decent young people are struggling to get on the property ladder and get work.... what did all their money buy ? Him back Inside and another victim. Because my belief, Is that he never saw any real deterrant, no real punsihment, no real hardship for his crime.... Yes, Borstal was brutal but few wanted to ever go back there again.
What rubbish. Don't you read the daily mail? The parents are to blame for the behaviour of their children, was his mother a single parent living on benefits? What do you mean blaming the state for the behaviour of your relative at the end of the day it is his choice and his responsibility no one else's. You can't have it both ways we do not live in a society where the state is responsible for every aspect of someone's life. We do live in one where some attempt is made to find an alternative to draconian prison regimes that didn't work in the past and there is no reason to think they will now. . Some people are beyond help, them we should just lock away permanently. That he is a pathetic excuse for a human being is no one else's fault but his own, if he's niot responsible then maybe he shopul;d be shut away as feeble minded like they also used to do in the good old days to girls that got themselves pregnant out of wedlock.
I re-iterate, the bortals were abolished not by a liberal wishy washy government but by the tories. Borstal just served as a training ground for young criminals and left youngsters with a hatred for anyone in authority. Do some research on the matter it might surprise you.
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Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31842
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Don't put killer children on trial say magistrates...
gmc;1410278 wrote: What rubbish. Don't you read the daily mail? The parents are to blame for the behaviour of their children, was his mother a single parent living on benefits? What do you mean blaming the state for the behaviour of your relative at the end of the day it is his choice and his responsibility no one else's. You can't have it both ways we do not live in a society where the state is responsible for every aspect of someone's life. We do live in one where some attempt is made to find an alternative to draconian prison regimes that didn't work in the past and there is no reason to think they will now. . Some people are beyond help, them we should just lock away permanently. That he is a pathetic excuse for a human being is no one else's fault but his own, if he's niot responsible then maybe he shopul;d be shut away as feeble minded like they also used to do in the good old days to girls that got themselves pregnant out of wedlock.
I re-iterate, the bortals were abolished not by a liberal wishy washy government but by the tories. Borstal just served as a training ground for young criminals and left youngsters with a hatred for anyone in authority. Do some research on the matter it might surprise you. Actually, i have done some research on the subject, a lot more research than most.
Go to Grumps thread on the new secure unit for young offenders and you'll see my argument there... I'm not re-writing It here.
Current stats show that approx half of prisoners re-offend. It's no more and no less than re-offenders from the days of Borstal so for all the namby pamby liberal attitudes, nothing has been achieved.
What makes you think a childrens secure unit for serious offenders Is any less than a breeding ground for would be criminals than a Borstal or prison? Any kind of unit however soft or harsh has Inmates who are like for like. They don't get sent there for stealing sweets from the corner shop.
If anyone needs to do some research, It's you.
I re-iterate, the bortals were abolished not by a liberal wishy washy government but by the tories. Borstal just served as a training ground for young criminals and left youngsters with a hatred for anyone in authority. Do some research on the matter it might surprise you. Actually, i have done some research on the subject, a lot more research than most.
Go to Grumps thread on the new secure unit for young offenders and you'll see my argument there... I'm not re-writing It here.
Current stats show that approx half of prisoners re-offend. It's no more and no less than re-offenders from the days of Borstal so for all the namby pamby liberal attitudes, nothing has been achieved.
What makes you think a childrens secure unit for serious offenders Is any less than a breeding ground for would be criminals than a Borstal or prison? Any kind of unit however soft or harsh has Inmates who are like for like. They don't get sent there for stealing sweets from the corner shop.
If anyone needs to do some research, It's you.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon