Military atheists celebrate with charity and service

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:19 am

A feel good story.Across the military, atheists and humanists are reaching out to support their local communities. Hawaii MAAF Affiliate M*A*S*H* Hawaii with organizer Jacob Milich and lay leader Nick Stenkamp support Naval Station Pearl Harbor, Hickam AFB, Schofield Barracks, and Marine Corps Base Kaneohe Bay. They’ve shown their holiday spirit by doing a food drive for local homeless persons and a toy drive for Toys for Tots. These service activities along with their recent convention with Richard Dawkins are raising the bar for local community-building....

...MAAF provides a special thank-you to the chaplain staff that is providing a location for meetings. That is one of the simple steps chaplains can take to reach out to the nontheist community.

Hawaii military atheists celebrate with charity and service | Secular News Daily

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:51 am

Reaching out to help others is always good!

"Non-theist" is a kinder, gentler term. I like it.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:11 am

Accountable;1414142 wrote: Reaching out to help others is always good!

"Non-theist" is a kinder, gentler term. I like it."Atheist" use to cause me to take a step back because of the associated connotations, but that's changed for me. At this point I've conversed with enough decent people and witnessed enough "good" deeds by individuals who prefer the label "atheist" that I'm now comfortable with it. I guess this has to do with association more than anything else.

Post by **LarsMac** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:22 am

Interesting. I was involved in another forum discussion regarding altruism, and the notion among many religious (particularly Christian) folks is that altruism is a religious concept.

I know so many Atheists who are dedicated to community service and caring projects though, and argued that altruism is far removed from any religious institutions.

While some institutions, like the Salvation Army, are faith-based, there are just as many non-theist organizations out there.

In fact, there was recently a piece on NOVA about altruism that suggested with some quite convincing evidence that "Doing good" is not even a human construct. Members of many species have shown altruistic behavior.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:21 pm

I agree. I would guess altruism is more a social needs thing than religious. Anybody who uses religion as a basis for altruism likely thinks he has to give in order to get (into heaven), which is not altruistic at all. I help others because it make me feel good to do things like that.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:49 am

LarsMac;1414147 wrote: Interesting. I was involved in another forum discussion regarding altruism, and the notion among many religious (particularly Christian) folks is that altruism is a religious concept.

I know so many Atheists who are dedicated to community service and caring projects though, and argued that altruism is far removed from any religious institutions.

While some institutions, like the Salvation Army, are faith-based, there are just as many non-theist organizations out there.

In fact, there was recently a piece on NOVA about altruism that suggested with some quite convincing evidence that "Doing good" is not even a human construct. Members of many species have shown altruistic behavior.

IMO opinion they have to think that way because they make moral decisions based on what they are told is moral rather than think for themselves. Monotheism also preaches that their religion is the only one and those who do not follow it are lesser in the eyes of god. It becomes easier to turn your back and convince yourself people deserve their fate, the holocaust for instance would be inconceivable without two thousand years of anti jewish conditioning by the church. Just look at the delight some look forward to the end of times and unbelievers burning in hell.

Being altruistic and helping others is rational and a good survival tactic. Groups which work well together always win over groups that don't or where there is a hierarchy and nothing in it for those at the bottom.

halfway · Post by **halfway** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:12 am

I belong to several Christian charities.

More giving and less "expecting" would do our society some good.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:43 am

I wonder if there is such a thing as no expectations. We're all somehow motivated, I think. Though I can agree that less expectations from our giving would be a plus, but then again, maybe not. If expectations is a driving force behind giving, then it might be a good thing.

Morality has a way of causing confusion.

Post by **LarsMac** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:10 am

Ahso!;1414239 wrote: I wonder if there is such a thing as no expectations. We're all somehow motivated, I think. Though I can agree that less expectations from our giving would be a plus, but then again, maybe not. If expectations is a driving force behind giving, then it might be a good thing.

Morality has a way of causing confusion.

Morality is not the point of confusion.

When people think that morality is something outside of themselves, then they get confused.

My morality is my guideline to my behavior.

It only gets confusing if I expect the same behavior from others, or if I change my behavior to meet others expectations.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:11 am

Ahso!;1414239 wrote: I wonder if there is such a thing as no expectations. We're all somehow motivated, I think. Though I can agree that less expectations from our giving would be a plus, but then again, maybe not. If expectations is a driving force behind giving, then it might be a good thing.
I tend to agree, but I think Halfway was referring to the expectation to receive.

As in "More giving and less "expecting to receive gifts" would do our society some good.

Am I right, Halfway? Am I halfway right?

Post by **LarsMac** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:49 am

Accountable;1414250 wrote: I tend to agree, but I think Halfway was referring to the expectation to receive.

As in "More giving and less "expecting to receive gifts" would do our society some good.

Am I right, Halfway? Am I halfway right?

I read it as more Expecting some sort of reward/payback for the giving.

I have been having such discussions with my grandson, recently.

Altruism confuses him. He has lived in a world where all action has a reward.

You don't give unless you can expect something in return. This was drilled into him by his father, A sad individual, who always expected something in return for even the slightest favor.

halfway · Post by **halfway** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:37 pm

I meant "we need more giving and less expecting". Had nothing to do with expectations of those performing charity. Those reasons and rewards are to each his own. Some spiritual, some social, some purely out of conscience.

We have a large portion of society "expecting" because they have been conditioned for everything from tax returns (look, free money from the sky), to health care, to unemployment, to welfare, to complete safety and security from the government.

We have a responsibility to those who cannot help themselves, and we have an incredible structure of charitable community activities that lend a hand to those in need. We also have those who's need for a "hand up" has long passed....those are the one's I am talking about.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:10 pm

LarsMac;1414270 wrote: I read it as more Expecting some sort of reward/payback for the giving.

I have been having such discussions with my grandson, recently.

Altruism confuses him. He has lived in a world where all action has a reward.

You don't give unless you can expect something in return. This was drilled into him by his father, A sad individual, who always expected something in return for even the slightest favor.
I see that trend with my students as well. I'd attributed it to the inner-city neighborhood.

Post by **LarsMac** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:12 pm

Accountable;1414277 wrote: I see that trend with my students as well. I'd attributed it to the inner-city neighborhood.

I see it as more of a suburban thing, myself.

I know the grandkids living in the country don't seem to see things that way.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:08 pm

halfway;1414274 wrote: I meant "we need more giving and less expecting". Had nothing to do with expectations of those performing charity. Those reasons and rewards are to each his own. Some spiritual, some social, some purely out of conscience.

We have a large portion of society "expecting" because they have been conditioned for everything from tax returns (look, free money from the sky), to health care, to unemployment, to welfare, to complete safety and security from the government.

We have a responsibility to those who cannot help themselves, and we have an incredible structure of charitable community activities that lend a hand to those in need. We also have those who's need for a "hand up" has long passed....those are the one's I am talking about.I'm wondering how you decide this? What information are you privy to that lets you know their "need for a 'hand up' has long passed"?

Post by **LarsMac** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:42 pm

halfway;1414274 wrote: I meant "we need more giving and less expecting". Had nothing to do with expectations of those performing charity. Those reasons and rewards are to each his own. Some spiritual, some social, some purely out of conscience.

We have a large portion of society "expecting" because they have been conditioned for everything from tax returns (look, free money from the sky), to health care, to unemployment, to welfare, to complete safety and security from the government.

We have a responsibility to those who cannot help themselves, and we have an incredible structure of charitable community activities that lend a hand to those in need. We also have those who's need for a "hand up" has long passed....those are the one's I am talking about.

Wow, the people who have that kind of expectation are a bit removed from reality, I think.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:58 am

halfway;1414274 wrote: I meant "we need more giving and less expecting". Had nothing to do with expectations of those performing charity. Those reasons and rewards are to each his own. Some spiritual, some social, some purely out of conscience.

We have a large portion of society "expecting" because they have been conditioned for everything from tax returns (look, free money from the sky), to health care, to unemployment, to welfare, to complete safety and security from the government.

We have a responsibility to those who cannot help themselves, and we have an incredible structure of charitable community activities that lend a hand to those in need. We also have those who's need for a "hand up" has long passed....those are the one's I am talking about.

Rather I think it is we have a large section of society that believe it should be dog eat dog and devil take the hindmost. That the state they see no point in healthcare for all because they are all right and don't need to worry about the costs of such things they like the sanctimonious joy they get from doing good works and don't see themselves as apart of society but as being above the masses. Sadly they are in control at the moment.