Wannabe Super Hero

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:47 am

I watched this video. I'd like to know what you think.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:50 am

Not surprised.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:17 am

I saw that show back when it came out. IIRC, that was only one of three segments of an hour long show.

In the video they got the results they designed the "test" to prove. Nothing new coming from 20/20, famous for the Ford Pinto Stunt.

If it were not for the fact that some people would take such a show seriously, it would all be comical.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:49 am

tude dog;1414175 wrote: I saw that show back when it came out. IIRC, that was only one of three segments of an hour long show.

In the video they got the results they designed the "test" to prove. Nothing new coming from 20/20, famous for the Ford Pinto Stunt

If it were not for the fact that some people would take such a show seriously, it would all be comical.Predictable derail! The thread is not about 20/20 or the Ford Pinto. So, with that in mind what specifically are you in disagreement with in this particular segment. IOW, what specific criticism do you offer?

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:17 am

Ahso!;1414183 wrote: Predictable derail! The thread is not about 20/20 or the Ford Pinto. So, with that in mind what specifically are you in disagreement with in this particular segment. IOW, what specific criticism do you offer?

No derail. Just pointing out they continue to use phony premises for a story.

Their little school room play proved nothing, except 20/20 has contempt for its viewers. There are mature ways to point out that use of a concealed weapon is not always the best answer to a perceived threat.

You did say,

"I watched this video. I'd like to know what you think."

That's what I think.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:57 am

tude dog;1414192 wrote: No derail. Just pointing out they continue to use phony premises for a story.

Their little school room play proved nothing, except 20/20 has contempt for its viewers. There are mature ways to point out that use of a concealed weapon is not always the best answer to a perceived threat.

You did say,

"I watched this video. I'd like to know what you think."

That's what I think.What's immature about what the school is teaching? The school is run by security and gun experts. Where are they at fault? Give me an example besides the fact that you don't like anything 20/20 does.

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:45 am

Ahso!;1414202 wrote: What's immature about what the school is teaching? The school is run by security and gun experts. Where are they at fault? Give me an example besides the fact that you don't like anything 20/20 does.

Not trying to rain on anyones parade but the shooter knew who was the student with the gun and therefor targeted him at the outset. They obviously put him in a shirt that would hamper drawing of the weapon. Those were the first things I thought of when watching.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:57 am

YZGI;1414219 wrote: Not trying to rain on anyones parade but You're not.YZGI;1414219 wrote: the shooter knew who was the student with the gun and therefor targeted him at the outset. Which I'd assume means that the shooter, living in a world where schools had armed guards or teachers would do exactly. That fact that the student was given a place for cover means they gave him/her a better chance than a guard or teacher in a classroom would have. YZGI;1414219 wrote: They obviously put him in a shirt that would hamper drawing of the weapon. Those were the first things I thought of when watching.That's a main point that they tried to convey - that one needs to pay constant attention to dress and practice getting to the weapon. In cases other than a cop, the gun would be concealed and holstered, would it not?

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:03 am

Ahso!;1414225 wrote: You're not. Which I'd assume means that the shooter, living in a world where schools had armed guards or teachers would do exactly. That fact that the student was given a place for cover means they gave him/her a better chance than a guard or teacher in a classroom would have. That's a main point that they tried to convey - that one needs to pay constant attention to dress and practice getting to the weapon. In cases other than a cop, the gun would be concealed and holstered, would it not?

I understand where you're coming from. In chaotic situations no telling how anyone will react.

Post by **LarsMac** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:07 am

They make valid points.

And I have often argued the same thing among family and on other forums.

If you don't know how to use a gun properly, it is of no use to you.

I say that such training should be required before you are ever given a license to own a gun, much less a CCP.

Image Aurora with all of those people carrying guns. Even more people would have died, probably.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:20 am

YZGI;1414227 wrote: I understand where you're coming from. In chaotic situations no telling how anyone will react.That goes for everyone except the person/'s who've done the planning. No matter how it's broken down in my mind, other than the element of surprise such as Tyr pointed out in one of these threads early on, there's no way of taking the initiative away from the shooter in most instances outside of the removal of the weapon or getting lucky. No matter how lucky we get, someone still pays with their life and their loved ones pay with their living.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:25 am

LarsMac;1414229 wrote: They make valid points.

And I have often argued the same thing among family and on other forums.

If you don't know how to use a gun properly, it is of no use to you.

I say that such training should be required before you are ever given a license to own a gun, much less a CCP.

Image Aurora with all of those people carrying guns. Even more people would have died, probably.There was an incident not that long ago where, I think it was 7 armed and trained cops wounded 9 innocent bystanders while engaging a supposed shooter. I say it that way because I can't remember if the person actually had a gun. And then there's the guy in NY who was shot by police 41 times while reaching for his wallet.

Seriously, if trained officers can't get this right, how in the world would we expect civilians to?

Post by **LarsMac** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:55 am

Ahso!;1414236 wrote: There was an incident not that long ago where, I think it was 7 armed and trained cops wounded 9 innocent bystanders while engaging a supposed shooter. I say it that way because I can't remember if the person actually had a gun. And then there's the guy in NY who was shot by police 41 times while reaching for his wallet.

Seriously, if trained officers can't get this right, how in the world would we expect civilians to?

New York has a history of such incidents.

Not sure how much training their cops get, but it may not be enough.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:18 pm

LarsMac;1414271 wrote: New York has a history of such incidents.

Not sure how much training their cops get, but it may not be enough.Perhaps due to the population density.

Scrat · Post by **Scrat** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:25 pm

If you don't know how to use a gun properly, it is of no use to you.

I think the video makes valid points and along with what Larsmac said above it's the reason I some times think we're nuts as a society. I always wonder how many stupid people there are out there with guns and it scares the hell out of me.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:35 pm

Ahso!;1414202 wrote: What's immature about what the school is teaching? The school is run by security and gun experts. Where are they at fault? Give me an example besides the fact that you don't like anything 20/20 does.

It is not a school teaching, it is a TV show. Entertainment pretending to be a news show.

Some of the points, like trying to draw a concealed weapon is not always a smart thing to try, I agree 100%.

There were a couple of other points, I have no problem with (I did not commit them to memory, so don't ask.)

As far as not liking anything 20/20 does, that is not true. To be quite frank, the gun thing was the only show of theirs I ever watched, and only because I heard about it and made a point to view it. My knowledge of the Ford Pinto scam was because it was all over the news.

If not for the fact 20/20 was aired late at night on a week day (I get up very early for work) I may have watched more.

Post by **LarsMac** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:27 pm

The school room skit was a valid experiment.

20/20's twist on the thing may have been a bit off, but you will likely see similar results in your local neighborhood.

80% of the people out there with guns would fail, miserably in a sudden onset combat situation. And that includes a large number of military vets.

Going back to the NYC Police, I am sure that most officers can score very well on the firing range, but most of them go through an entire career without ever having to actually fire their weapon on duty.

When suddenly faced with the scenario where they must fire on someone, many will screw up.

So, while I support Concealed Carry, and armed citizenry, I am scared to death what will happen if I am in the middle of something like Aurora, or Luby's and a majority of my fellow citizens are armed. Some will react well, and possibly take out the original assailant, but others will just point and shoot at whoever they see with a gun.

That could get ugly, very quickly.

Much of the skill required to handle firearms is knowing when NOT to shoot.

Hell, the first time I was in a combat situation, I shot my Platoon Leader in the foot, and pissed myself.

And that was after some significant training.