Isn't it time we open trade to Cuba?

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 3:55 am

Exclusive: Beyonce, Jay-Z Cuba visit had U.S. Treasury Department OK - source | Reuters

(Reuters) - A visit by American pop star Beyonce and rapper husband Jay-Z to Havana last week was a cultural trip that was fully licensed by the U.S. Treasury Department, a source familiar with the itinerary said on Monday.

The longstanding U.S. trade embargo against Cuba prevents most Americans from traveling to the communist-led island without a license granted by the U.S. government.

Three Cuban-American members of Congress, all Republicans from Miami and supporters of a firm stance on Cuba, have asked the Treasury Department to look into the licensing of the trip, prompting officials to seek more information from the organizers.

Are they still such a threat? Are we really such supporters of freedom that we're willing to force it on a country that doesn't want it, or at least punish them for not fighting for it?

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 3:58 am

Were they ever a threat ?

Apart from a few days in the 60's

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:08 am

Well, they overthrew our puppet and insisted on running their own country. I guess some over here took exception to that.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:41 am

I have always supported trade & tourism with Cuba.

Post by **LarsMac** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:00 am

Th primary objections to trade with Cuba come from the remnants of the exiles who won't even discuss trade with a Cuba run by the Brothers Castro.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:08 am

Seems to me they're cutting off the nose to spite the face. Trade would bring culture & information, which is bad news for any dictator.

halfway · Post by **halfway** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:28 am

We should be embracing socialism, not reacting to it.

Global socialism is the only solution...we just need a charismatic leader to destroy and dismantle the capitalist opposition.

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:32 am

I'll take a few Cuban cigars.

halfway · Post by **halfway** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:49 am

YZGI;1424021 wrote: I'll take a few Cuban cigars.

mmmm....Partagas Y Romeo Y Julieta!

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:50 am

halfway;1424023 wrote: mmmm....Partagas Y Romeo Y Julieta!

Right on dude.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:25 am

halfway;1424019 wrote: We should be embracing socialism, not reacting to it.

Global socialism is the only solution...we just need a charismatic leader to destroy and dismantle the capitalist opposition.
Embracing is a reaction. There is no "only" solution, but out of curiosity - solution to what?

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:38 am

I certainly think it's time to discuss the option of lifting the embargo.

I think it has to do with our elections - all Pres. need to secure the votes from Florida.

Lifting the embargo - you won't have Florida in your pocket - not now anyway.

Patsy

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:09 am

There's definitely logic behind that for the politicians, Patsy, but what's the logic for the Floridians?

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:18 am

The Cuban communities in Florida

The Cuban who escaped - survived - the older Cuban's.

Until the older one's pass on - get to weak to fight - once/until this population lowers I feel the embargo will have to stay enforced.

Just a idea ?

Patsy

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:47 am

Accountable;1424004 wrote: Exclusive: Beyonce, Jay-Z Cuba visit had U.S. Treasury Department OK - source | Reuters

Are they still such a threat? Are we really such supporters of freedom that we're willing to force it on a country that doesn't want it, or at least punish them for not fighting for it?

Were they ever such a threat?

Remember that the embargo was put in place well before the missile crisis (as was the Bay of Pigs fiasco) and that the missile crisis was Russia's response to the US placing missiles in Turkey.

Cuba was never a threat to the US and the embargo is pure sour grapes - there was no mention of democratisation for thirty years after it was put in place, it was there purely to punish the Cubans for daring to kick the America puppet out of the country.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:48 am

LarsMac;1424017 wrote: Th primary objections to trade with Cuba come from the remnants of the exiles who won't even discuss trade with a Cuba run by the Brothers Castro.

And why should a few immigrants dictate UIS foreign policy?

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:51 am

Patsy Warnick;1424040 wrote: The Cuban communities in Florida

The Cuban who escaped - survived - the older Cuban's.

Until the older one's pass on - get to weak to fight - once/until this population lowers I feel the embargo will have to stay enforced.

Just a idea ?

Patsy

That sort of bitterness does not die with the old ones - it's more like a biblical curse lasting unto the seventh generation thereof

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:15 pm

Bryn

We are saying the same thing - bitterness or not it's not going to happen right now

I have no idea the length of time it'll take

At some point a different generation will lift the embargo.

I'd like to hope somewhere differences can be put aside - that "Bitterness".

it can't happen here on FG - it probably won't happen between 2 Countries.

Patsy

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:41 pm

Patsy Warnick;1424040 wrote: The Cuban communities in Florida

The Cuban who escaped - survived - the older Cuban's.

Until the older one's pass on - get to weak to fight - once/until this population lowers I feel the embargo will have to stay enforced.

Just a idea ?

Patsy

Bryn Mawr;1424043 wrote: That sort of bitterness does not die with the old ones - it's more like a biblical curse lasting unto the seventh generation thereof

So US policy is being dictated by emotion-driven revenge? That's stupid. Not the suggestion; that makes sense. It's the revenge that's stupid. Our current policies only serve to keep Castro(s) in power.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:46 pm

Bryn Mawr;1424041 wrote: Cuba was never a threat to the US and the embargo is pure sour grapes - there was no mention of democratisation for thirty years after it was put in place, it was there purely to punish the Cubans for daring to kick the America puppet out of the country.
I don't think anyone who studies the history can argue that.

Post by **LarsMac** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:03 pm

halfway;1424019 wrote: We should be embracing socialism, not reacting to it.

Global socialism is the only solution...we just need a charismatic leader to destroy and dismantle the capitalist opposition.

I suspect you Like Socialism, ...

But only on a National scale.

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:44 am

Bryn

Cuba allowed Russia to build missiles that's why Kennedy enforced a embargo

and obviously the missiles have been dismantled etc.

Yes, We threw our weight around agreed. when is enough enough?

Who here would have the embargo lifted and why?

Just curious

Patsy

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:05 am

They were very close to each other, but the embargo started in Feb, before the missile crisis in Oct.

By 1960, Castro's government had seized private land, nationalized hundreds of private companies — including several local subsidiaries of U.S. corporations — and taxed American products so heavily that U.S. exports were halved in just two years. The Eisenhower Administration responded by imposing trade restrictions on everything except food and medical supplies. Decrying "Yankee imperialism," Castro expanded trade with the Soviet Union instead. The U.S. responded by cutting all diplomatic ties, and the two countries have been talking through Switzerland ever since. President Kennedy issued the permanent embargo on Feb. 7, 1962 — right after ordering a shipment of 1,200 Cuban cigars for himself — and within a few years the country, whose economy relied on the use of American-made products, became a shell of its former self. Food consumption decreased. Telephones and televisions were harder to come by. With no way to import American cars, Cubans watched their pre-embargo sedans rust into jalopies.

Read more: A Brief History Of U.S.-Cuba Relations - TIME

Not really relevant today, though. It's pointless at best, and damaging to the Cuban people at worst.

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:38 am

Good article

I like that selfish cigar order.

So, is the punishment over?

will this embargo be lifted? I don't know? should it be?

supporting Cuba just alittle - that's putting cheese out for a mouse.

Patsy

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:04 am

Acct

don't you think the timing of Obama's Olive Branch is questionable? suspicious?

interesting he didn't offer this 4 yrs. ago.?

The next election we'll watch the candidates scramble with their promises

will they squash the olive branch to secure Florida?

The embargo is either lifted completely or it's not

I don't agree with enticing Cuba yet still having the power to pull on that leash.

Patsy

Wandrin · Post by **Wandrin** » Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:25 am

The embargo was a bad idea in the first place and retaliation for the Cuban people kicking out our dictator. It is pretty silly for the US to continue to hold a grudge and prevent trade, while enjoying a good trade relationship with Russia, China, etc.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:12 am

Strange thing is the Land of the Free is famous for high barriers, trade tariffs and embargoes

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:34 pm

Bruv

My thought exactly.

it's disappointing

Patsy

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:41 pm

Patsy Warnick;1424102 wrote: Bryn

Cuba allowed Russia to build missiles that's why Kennedy enforced a embargo

and obviously the missiles have been dismantled etc.

Yes, We threw our weight around agreed. when is enough enough?

Who here would have the embargo lifted and why?

Just curious

Patsy

The embargo started in 1960, the missile crisis was in 1963. The embargo was nothing to do with the missile crisis but it is very possible that the missile crisis was a response to the embargo.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:39 pm

Patsy Warnick;1424109 wrote: Acct

don't you think the timing of Obama's Olive Branch is questionable? suspicious?

interesting he didn't offer this 4 yrs. ago.?

The next election we'll watch the candidates scramble with their promises

will they squash the olive branch to secure Florida?

The embargo is either lifted completely or it's not

I don't agree with enticing Cuba yet still having the power to pull on that leash.

Patsy
My default view of any politician's action is as a cynical ploy to cover the real agenda. It takes a lot to shake me off that, since it's how it almost always turns out in the end. So, questionable? Suspicious? Absolutely.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:40 pm

Wandrin;1424110 wrote: The embargo was a bad idea in the first place and retaliation for the Cuban people kicking out our dictator. It is pretty silly for the US to continue to hold a grudge and prevent trade, while enjoying a good trade relationship with Russia, China, etc.

Bruv;1424111 wrote: Strange thing is the Land of the Free is famous for high barriers, trade tariffs and embargoes

with both.

Wandrin · Post by **Wandrin** » Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:04 pm

I think the fastest way to end the embargo is to convince the real powers in this country (Wall St.) that there are profits to be made from free trade with Cuba.

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:39 pm

OK Acct. we both have a trust issue - your a political analyst think

Obama is allowing communication & Cubans to travel

How does the US benefit from that token.?

What's the underline motive - this makes no sense to me.?

Certainly by lifting the embargo completely it would be a benefit to the US economy.

it's a win win for all.

What's Obama really doing? Why is this a priority issue? why now?

I don't like surprises

Patsy

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:06 am

Patsy Warnick;1424155 wrote: OK Acct. we both have a trust issue - your a political analyst think

Obama is allowing communication & Cubans to travel

How does the US benefit from that token.?

What's the underline motive - this makes no sense to me.?

Certainly by lifting the embargo completely it would be a benefit to the US economy.

it's a win win for all.

What's Obama really doing? Why is this a priority issue? why now?

I don't like surprises

Patsy
Well, he won't just suddenly open all trade or even float the idea because it will give too much credence to the current Castro. Allowing communications between family members is one way to put a crack in the wall that all but the most hardcore can forgive. After all, everybody understands wanting to communicate with family members, especially if they are trapped in a country with an oppressive regime.

Rich people have always been able to go where they want and do what they want, so this is nothing new except that now it's celebrities. Every dictator is an egomaniac. It's part of the job description. What egomaniac can't see the value in rubbing elbows with Hollywood elite? Making Beyonce's (and her ugly husband, what's-his-name) trip official makes us (Obama) look like we're making the first peace gesture.

So maybe we're softening up the opposition here at home, and beginning a push for diplomatic relations. Maybe we're doing the same thing with the Rodman/NK trip. As for timing, the re-election is over and the next election is years away. If this blows up, we'll have forgotten by the next election. If it's successful, it will have grown as a diplomatic success by then.

How's that?

Oh yeh, the cynical twist: What better legacy to leave behind than as the president who mended diplomatic relations with two countries who had been our sworn enemies for more than half a century?

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:10 am

Beyonce's ugly husband......hmm

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:39 am

Well?

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:49 am

I think he is cute. You are a hetero male, & in my experience your group doesn't judge other men well.

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:17 am

Interesting humans - we all think differently.

No Pres. will remove the embargo until Castro is dead - both of them.

We have many hard core individuals so we wait.

If Pres. Obama wanted to leave a legacy than remove the embargo and be around to handle the results.

don't leave a crack - I don't appreciate seeing a crack of anything:wah:

Patsy

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:37 am

Accountable;1424166 wrote:

Well?
A little bit of "He's not good enough for her" green eye is what I detected or projected.......not too sure.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:30 pm

Bruv;1424180 wrote: A little bit of "He's not good enough for her" green eye is what I detected or projected.......not too sure.
:wah: 'Kay.