Saturday was one of the worst.

[High Threshold]

We took the train up to Ängelholm on Saturday. There's a railway museum up there and although it might not be a really “WOW!” experience it does have a mini cinema where the film takes you back in time and in sequence brings you up to modern day, with seats that tilt, jolt and shudder as the “on board” film shuttles you along. My 7-year-old loves it and it was at his request we made the visit, for the second time. Everything was OK. It rained like hell but only intermittently so that we weren't bothered very much. Afterwards we walked into town for a decent kebab and there, on the square, were the have-a-taste, international travelling marquee tents, selling French sweets, German würst, Greek souvlaki, Hungarian langos and even Australian …. uh... I'm not sure what they were hawking. Anyway, we bought some British fudge. Dear it is, and they must have had at least 200 different flavours! It was early evening when we decided to start for home. That's when the trouble started.

Travelling back down again the train stopped in Helsingborg: Famous for its castle, town hall, and the cheap & convenient, 20 minute-long ferries to Denmark. Some got off, some got on. A group of very loud beer-saturated youths stepped in, shouting like Nazis at the Bierkeller Putsch. We were sitting near the door so we naturally looked to see what sort of live-stock we were taking onboard. The only female of the raiding party caught my wife looking in their directly and promptly gave my dear one the finger, “What are you looking at!” Thank God they moved on to the next carriage, but you could clearly hear them making such a fuss about what, I know not. Off we went. The next stop was Ramlösa, famous for its bottled, mineral water; a 2 minute stop normally. A family from Afghanistan stepped inside, looking for somewhere to roost. We offered to shift ourselves a bit to make room for them: A 13-year-old boy, a girl of about 5, an infant in the pram, mum, and what I assumed was Gran. And there we sat for an hour and a half. Something wrong with rail traffic up ahead, we were told. All the while we could hear the “brown shirts” planning their assault on the Reichstag and working out the details on how to blame it on some poor, innocent Dutchman “on the left side ”. But finally we moved on - and what a relief!

After a time an unsteady man in his 40´s (obviously drunk) came along the corridor and into sight, looking for the loo which was just next to us. But rather than point Percy at the porcelain and then move on he decided to hang about. OK, I thought, everyone's got to be somewhere. Well, he got his sights on the Afghanis and there was nothing for it. A racist! The 13-year-old, being the only one of them who could speak any Swedish, was the target. “Why are you (in the plural) here anyway! You don't like Sweden (the boy never once said that) and all you want is to make trouble and take our money! F-Off back to Afghanistan!", he declared. I'm one of those incurable “do-gooders” who always sticks his nose where it doesn't really belong, and my wife knows this. She looked at me to see what (if anything) I was going to do. Her stern glance my way spoke clearly, “Don't you dare!” I recently got into a fair bit of trouble for my out-outspokenness and I really didn't want to get stuck into it again, but I had to do something. Sense prevailed so I went for the conductor. He was full up with the storm troopers but I guess he welcomed a break from that lot and immediately followed me back to tell “3-sheets-to-the-wind” that he wouldn't put up with him - and offered to toss him off the train at the next station if he didn't behave himself. As it turned out the Afghanis lived in the next town (Kävlinge. Famous for absolutely nothing) and it was they who disembarked, leaving us with the now glaring-at-me shyt face. I braved a discrete glimpse at my wife's face – the same stern warning as before. We moved to another part of the train. No, not “that way” …... “the other way”.

[G#Gill]

There seems to be a lot of this sort of behaviour about ! It certainly is not confined to any one particular country either ! Your story, HT, reminds me of a journey we undertook on a train to visit my sister in the area of Skegness, a seaside town in Lincolnshire, East England. This was many years ago now.

The train we boarded was one of those that stopped at every station on the route, so the journey was slow and a bit stop, start. One station we stopped at took on board a group of teenagers (still attending school, judging from the uniform they were all wearing ) and they were typical noisy youngsters who came into our carriage and settled in the seats about half way along. It was an 'open plan' carriage with paired seats on either side of the central passageway, and because it was open plan we could see other passengers, mostly women, on one or two other seats in the carriage. One lady looked a little concerned at all the noise and the use of profanities, and then even more concerned as a couple of the lads took out cigarettes and lit them, blowing clouds of smoke all around them. There was a 'no smoking' ruling on all UK trains by this time, so my husband called out to them and asked them to put out their cigarettes and respect other occupants of the carriage. He was told fairly loudly to 'F' off. This reply, of course, came as no surprise to us - they were loud-mouthed belligerent young know-it-alls after all.

My husband asked them again and received another 'F' off followed by a surly "Make me" from the biggest lad, who was sitting nearest the passageway. My husband stood up and was greeted by a "Come on then, let's see what Fritz can do !" (My husband had a 'crew' cut, which I suppose made him look a little Germanic !), so my husband took a step forward and asked the lad to put his cigarette out, and was greeted by a tirade of foul expletives. At this point, my son (in his late 20's) also stood and moved into the passageway with his father. I then said to the lads that really they should be careful who they challenge, as they have no idea who strangers are. They could be off-duty police officers or they could be black belt karate exponents, or both ! I added that was it the sensible thing to challenge strangers like they were doing. I received a venomous 'F' off from the bigger lad who then took a large drag of his cigarette to demonstrate his arrogance, and he blew it out at my husband. A hand reached down, grabbed the cigarette from the lad's mouth, threw it on the floor and it was ground out in front of the lad's shocked face. The youngster clenched his fist and my son in one step stood in front of him, also with a clenched fist. My son looked at the other lad who was smoking and told him to put out his cigarette, which the lad did, muttering foul expletives under his breath. A couple of the lady passengers called out a thank you to my husband and son who then returned to their seats. Those youngsters remained subdued and kept looking in our direction. They got off the train about five minutes later at the next station.

Those two lady passengers thanked my husband and son again and said that those youngsters regularly got on that train coming home from school, and they were always rowdy and smoked all the while they were on the train and that was the first time that anybody had got up and made them behave and stub out their cigarettes ! They then said that they wondered if the youngsters would carry on behaving each day, but added that they doubted it, unless we were on the train again ! :rolleyes:

[FourPart]

I've found the best way to deal with kids like that is not to get riled (at least not to show it), but to laugh at them. Over patronise them as children. They hate that.

[High Threshold]

G#Gill;1461950 wrote: ..... a group of teenagers ..... they were typical noisy youngsters who came into our carriage ..... all the noise and the use of profanities, ..... so my husband called out ..... my son also stood and moved into the passageway with his father. ..... A hand reached down, grabbed the cigarette from the lad's mouth, threw it on the floor and it was ground out in front of the lad's shocked face. .......


What a harrowing story! I'm sure you don't really want to hear my honest reaction but you were damned lucky it ended as it did. I would never advise anyone to try that on. Hmmmm, don't know if I should confess this but ….... I am awaiting charges of assault as we speak. The court date isn't yet set but I have to go down to the nick on Tuesday to give my version of the events (for the second time) to the detective in charge of the case. All I care to add at this point is that it isn't as serious as it sounds but it is still a horrendous ordeal for me who's never even seen the inside of any cop shop in all of my 67 years. So, if there is any sense left inside my head I won't be challenging anyone in the near future, you can be sure, whether aboard the train or anywhere else. Sorry, I've already said too much and I don't want to dwell on it any more than is necessary. Perhaps when it's all over with. :yh_frustr

[High Threshold]

FourPart;1461953 wrote: I've found the best way to deal with kids like that is ..... Over patronise them as children. They hate that.


I think I'll try that next time.

[G#Gill]

You're quite right, FourPart, they loathe being made fun of, particularly infront of their friends or other people. I have also found that the lads don't like being likened to girls! You can guarantee obscene replies if you suggest that what they are doing is what silly girls would do, and they become embarrassed !

The main reason my husband and son took a stand against those yobs was that there were several ladies travelling in that same carriage and it wasn't known when the yobs would get off the train which could have left the ladies on their own with the yobs, should we all get off first. As regards the possibility of the situation becoming nasty with possible violence, both my husband and son are adept at unarmed combat and in fairly tight spaces !

[High Threshold]

G#Gill;1461989 wrote: ..... both my husband and son are adept at unarmed combat and in fairly tight spaces !


Indeed. Precisely why I'm deep in the brown stuff at this very moment.

[G#Gill]

The trouble is, HT, that if more people stood up to these pratts, this increasing nastiness could be reduced considerably. The fact that many people won't get involved because of fear of violence from the pratts, is precisely what they rely on. Basically they're cowards and will only be anti-social when there is a group of them. The other problem is that if a lone person tries to stop a situation getting out-of-hand and uses force and consequently gets arrested, THEY could get more of a punishment than the original perpetrators ! If there were a group of people standing up to the idiots, there could well be no repurcussions against this group of people and it is more likely that the perpetrators would find themselves arrested and, rightly, punished. But people have got to pull together to overcome these nasty groups.

I hope things go well for you HT.

[High Threshold]

G#Gill;1462015 wrote: ..... if a lone person tries to stop a situation getting out-of-hand and uses force and consequently gets arrested, THEY could get more of a punishment than the original perpetrators !


This is it, innit. The general rule-of-thumb in Sweden, with regards to physical contact, is somewhere along the lines of no excessive, defensive aggression than is required for the situation. An over-simplified explanation is ..... a punch in the stomach for a punch in the stomach - or something like that. Having no personal experience I don't know (though I none-the-less doubt) that the courts take into consideration one's age or stature. Can they expect an old or small person to do no more than equal tit-for-tat against a huge, young, brute? I've always worked on the theory that if I'm being dominated or taunted I'm going to put him out of commission and be done with it. No, toe-to-toe sparring for half an hour. A short, sharp, shock and continue on my way. I'm much too old now for anything else.



G#Gill;1462015 wrote: I hope things go well for you HT.


Thank you.