No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
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Oscar Namechange
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No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
No indictment for Ferguson officer
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
Based on what St. Louis County Prosecuting Attorney Bob McCulloch announced, sounds good to me.
Officer Darren Wilson
Another victim of the race grievance industry.
Officer Darren Wilson
Another victim of the race grievance industry.
What happened to Kamala Harris' campaign?
She had the black vote all locked up.
She had the black vote all locked up.
No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
The real story about what happened that day is likely to never be figured out. And whatever justice might be, it will probably not be seen for either the young Mr Brown, or for Officer Wilson.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
I don't understand the american system - What's a grand jury and why are they deciding whether he stands trial or not? Seems to me they should have had an open trial especially given the circumstances - justice has to be seen to be done this way it isn't. If the officer had been justified than an open trial would have brought everything out and cleared him.
No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
Is a Grand Jury's findings made public ?
Is it similar to what we in the UK would call a Public Inquiry ?
The only way to satisfy all parties involved is to make it open for to all to see.
Is it similar to what we in the UK would call a Public Inquiry ?
The only way to satisfy all parties involved is to make it open for to all to see.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
A Grand Jury is a group of citizens called up to review the evidence that the prosecutor has, and determine if the evidence can lead to a successful prosecution of a case.
So when they hand down an indictment, they are saying that the evidence points to criminal activity by the subject of the case.
In this event, there is not enough evidence to support a criminal case against the officer. Generally, the actual details of evidence presented to the Grand Jury are never made public.
The family can, and probably will, pursue civil charges of wrongful death against Officer Wilson. In that case, the details will probably be made public.
So when they hand down an indictment, they are saying that the evidence points to criminal activity by the subject of the case.
In this event, there is not enough evidence to support a criminal case against the officer. Generally, the actual details of evidence presented to the Grand Jury are never made public.
The family can, and probably will, pursue civil charges of wrongful death against Officer Wilson. In that case, the details will probably be made public.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
LarsMac;1468214 wrote: A Grand Jury is a group of citizens called up to review the evidence that the prosecutor has, and determine if the evidence can lead to a successful prosecution of a case.
So when they hand down an indictment, they are saying that the evidence points to criminal activity by the subject of the case.
In this event, there is not enough evidence to support a criminal case against the officer. Generally, the actual details of evidence presented to the Grand Jury are never made public.
The family can, and probably will, pursue civil charges of wrongful death against Officer Wilson. In that case, the details will probably be made public.
Do the group of citizens get legal directions ?
How can the man in the street understand the requirements for weight of evidence in such a case ?
I believe in the UK evidence is weighed by The Director of Public Prosecution a professional legal body.
So when they hand down an indictment, they are saying that the evidence points to criminal activity by the subject of the case.
In this event, there is not enough evidence to support a criminal case against the officer. Generally, the actual details of evidence presented to the Grand Jury are never made public.
The family can, and probably will, pursue civil charges of wrongful death against Officer Wilson. In that case, the details will probably be made public.
Do the group of citizens get legal directions ?
How can the man in the street understand the requirements for weight of evidence in such a case ?
I believe in the UK evidence is weighed by The Director of Public Prosecution a professional legal body.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
LarsMac;1468214 wrote: A Grand Jury is a group of citizens called up to review the evidence that the prosecutor has, and determine if the evidence can lead to a successful prosecution of a case.
So when they hand down an indictment, they are saying that the evidence points to criminal activity by the subject of the case.
.
Exactly what our Crown Prosecution System does only ours Is a law unto themselves.
So when they hand down an indictment, they are saying that the evidence points to criminal activity by the subject of the case.
.
Exactly what our Crown Prosecution System does only ours Is a law unto themselves.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
gmc;1468208 wrote: I don't understand the american system - What's a grand jury and why are they deciding whether he stands trial or not?
Not all homicides are a crime. It is not just to bring charges against someone without at least some probable cause of wrongdoing.
gmc;1468208 wrote: Seems to me they should have had an open trial especially given the circumstances
In self defense white cop shoots black thug.
gmc;1468208 wrote: - justice has to be seen to be done this way it isn't. If the officer had been justified than an open trial would have brought everything out and cleared him.
Dream on.
Remember State of Florida v. George Zimmerman ?
George was cleared, or one would think.
To this day, after two years the Obama attack dog Erick still goes after him for civil rights charges.
Civil Rights Charges.
We were sold the concept of Double jeopardy. Problem is, when you are the target there are plenty of other laws to charge you with.
Eric Holder: Federal civil rights case against Ferguson cop will continue
Officer Darren Wilson is the chosen one.
This has nothing to do with justice.
Bring out all the facts you want. Make the case as clear as day, and just forget about it.
Not all homicides are a crime. It is not just to bring charges against someone without at least some probable cause of wrongdoing.
gmc;1468208 wrote: Seems to me they should have had an open trial especially given the circumstances
In self defense white cop shoots black thug.
gmc;1468208 wrote: - justice has to be seen to be done this way it isn't. If the officer had been justified than an open trial would have brought everything out and cleared him.
Dream on.
Remember State of Florida v. George Zimmerman ?
George was cleared, or one would think.
To this day, after two years the Obama attack dog Erick still goes after him for civil rights charges.
Civil Rights Charges.
We were sold the concept of Double jeopardy. Problem is, when you are the target there are plenty of other laws to charge you with.
Eric Holder: Federal civil rights case against Ferguson cop will continue
Officer Darren Wilson is the chosen one.
This has nothing to do with justice.
Bring out all the facts you want. Make the case as clear as day, and just forget about it.
What happened to Kamala Harris' campaign?
She had the black vote all locked up.
She had the black vote all locked up.
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
tude dog;1468224 wrote: Not all homicides are a crime. It is not just to bring charges against someone without at least some probable cause of wrongdoing.
In self defense white cop shoots black thug.
Dream on.
Remember State of Florida v. George Zimmerman ?
George was cleared, or one would think.
To this day, after two years the Obama attack dog Erick still goes after him for civil rights charges.
Civil Rights Charges.
We were sold the concept of Double jeopardy. Problem is, when you are the target there are plenty of other laws to charge you with.
Eric Holder: Federal civil rights case against Ferguson cop will continue
Officer Darren Wilson is the chosen one.
This has nothing to do with justice.
Bring out all the facts you want. Make the case as clear as day, and just forget about it. Absolutely !!!
Nothing to do with justice.
In self defense white cop shoots black thug.
Dream on.
Remember State of Florida v. George Zimmerman ?
George was cleared, or one would think.
To this day, after two years the Obama attack dog Erick still goes after him for civil rights charges.
Civil Rights Charges.
We were sold the concept of Double jeopardy. Problem is, when you are the target there are plenty of other laws to charge you with.
Eric Holder: Federal civil rights case against Ferguson cop will continue
Officer Darren Wilson is the chosen one.
This has nothing to do with justice.
Bring out all the facts you want. Make the case as clear as day, and just forget about it. Absolutely !!!
Nothing to do with justice.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
LarsMac;1468214 wrote:
The family can, and probably will, pursue civil charges of wrongful death against Officer Wilson. In that case, the details will probably be made public.
How much does a lawyer charge per hour?
Really.
Unless there is a lawyer willing to spend lots of hours Pro bono arguing against the findings of a grand jury.
I ain't no lawyer, but I can't see any profit in that venture.
The family can, and probably will, pursue civil charges of wrongful death against Officer Wilson. In that case, the details will probably be made public.
How much does a lawyer charge per hour?
Really.
Unless there is a lawyer willing to spend lots of hours Pro bono arguing against the findings of a grand jury.
I ain't no lawyer, but I can't see any profit in that venture.
What happened to Kamala Harris' campaign?
She had the black vote all locked up.
She had the black vote all locked up.
No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
When does profit come into malice? It's not about justice. It's about revenge.
No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
tude dog;1468228 wrote: How much does a lawyer charge per hour?
Really.
Unless there is a lawyer willing to spend lots of hours Pro bono arguing against the findings of a grand jury.
I ain't no lawyer, but I can't see any profit in that venture.
The lawyer does not need to go up against the Grand Jury findings.
Two separate issues.
The Grand Jury finding was that there is no evidence, or not enough evidence, to show that Officer Wilson committed any criminal act in the incident.
The Civil suit would test whether actions by Officer Wilson or the Ferguson Police Department resulted in the avoidable death of Michael Brown.
And I would guess that any number of lawyers have already queued up, offering to represent Brown's family in just such a suit.
Really.
Unless there is a lawyer willing to spend lots of hours Pro bono arguing against the findings of a grand jury.
I ain't no lawyer, but I can't see any profit in that venture.
The lawyer does not need to go up against the Grand Jury findings.
Two separate issues.
The Grand Jury finding was that there is no evidence, or not enough evidence, to show that Officer Wilson committed any criminal act in the incident.
The Civil suit would test whether actions by Officer Wilson or the Ferguson Police Department resulted in the avoidable death of Michael Brown.
And I would guess that any number of lawyers have already queued up, offering to represent Brown's family in just such a suit.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
tude dog;1468224 wrote: Not all homicides are a crime. It is not just to bring charges against someone without at least some probable cause of wrongdoing.
In self defense white cop shoots black thug.
Dream on.
Remember State of Florida v. George Zimmerman ?
George was cleared, or one would think.
To this day, after two years the Obama attack dog Erick still goes after him for civil rights charges.
Civil Rights Charges.
We were sold the concept of Double jeopardy. Problem is, when you are the target there are plenty of other laws to charge you with.
Eric Holder: Federal civil rights case against Ferguson cop will continue
Officer Darren Wilson is the chosen one.
This has nothing to do with justice.
Bring out all the facts you want. Make the case as clear as day, and just forget about it.
Point of order.
George Zimmerman was not "Cleared".
He was found not guilty of First Degree Murder. Meaning that the jury did not believe that he, with malice and forethought, set out to kill Trayvon Martin.
I suspect that, had the prosecutor pursued a Second Degree, or Manslaughter charge, Mr Zimmerman would be in the Pen, now.
In self defense white cop shoots black thug.
Dream on.
Remember State of Florida v. George Zimmerman ?
George was cleared, or one would think.
To this day, after two years the Obama attack dog Erick still goes after him for civil rights charges.
Civil Rights Charges.
We were sold the concept of Double jeopardy. Problem is, when you are the target there are plenty of other laws to charge you with.
Eric Holder: Federal civil rights case against Ferguson cop will continue
Officer Darren Wilson is the chosen one.
This has nothing to do with justice.
Bring out all the facts you want. Make the case as clear as day, and just forget about it.
Point of order.
George Zimmerman was not "Cleared".
He was found not guilty of First Degree Murder. Meaning that the jury did not believe that he, with malice and forethought, set out to kill Trayvon Martin.
I suspect that, had the prosecutor pursued a Second Degree, or Manslaughter charge, Mr Zimmerman would be in the Pen, now.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
LarsMac;1468239 wrote: The lawyer does not need to go up against the Grand Jury findings.
Two separate issues.
The Grand Jury finding was that there is no evidence, or not enough evidence, to show that Officer Wilson committed any criminal act in the incident.
The Civil suit would test whether actions by Officer Wilson or the Ferguson Police Department resulted in the avoidable death of Michael Brown.
And I would guess that any number of lawyers have already queued up, offering to represent Brown's family in just such a suit.
With not probable cause to even charge the guy of any wrongdoing, I would say that is at least a bump in the road.
Two separate issues.
The Grand Jury finding was that there is no evidence, or not enough evidence, to show that Officer Wilson committed any criminal act in the incident.
The Civil suit would test whether actions by Officer Wilson or the Ferguson Police Department resulted in the avoidable death of Michael Brown.
And I would guess that any number of lawyers have already queued up, offering to represent Brown's family in just such a suit.
With not probable cause to even charge the guy of any wrongdoing, I would say that is at least a bump in the road.
What happened to Kamala Harris' campaign?
She had the black vote all locked up.
She had the black vote all locked up.
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Peter Lake
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- Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:02 pm
No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
I find it an irony and slightly amusing that in such a grave issue, the people are looting hairdryers and beauty products. That'll make a difference to the justice system no doubt.
No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
tude dog;1468242 wrote: With not probable cause to even charge the guy of any wrongdoing, I would say that is at least a bump in the road.
You should probably spend a little time reading up on the differences between Criminal and Civil Law.
I could ask my nephew the lawyer to suggest some light reading.
You should probably spend a little time reading up on the differences between Criminal and Civil Law.
I could ask my nephew the lawyer to suggest some light reading.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
LarsMac;1468240 wrote: Point of order.
George Zimmerman was not "Cleared".
OK
LarsMac;1468240 wrote: He was found not guilty of First Degree Murder. Meaning that the jury did not believe that he, with malice and forethought, set out to kill Trayvon Martin.
I suspect that, had the prosecutor pursued a Second Degree, or Manslaughter charge, Mr Zimmerman would be in the Pen, now.
Did not happen as you wish.
Zimmerman trial jurors to be instructed on lesser charge
George Zimmerman was not "Cleared".
OK
LarsMac;1468240 wrote: He was found not guilty of First Degree Murder. Meaning that the jury did not believe that he, with malice and forethought, set out to kill Trayvon Martin.
I suspect that, had the prosecutor pursued a Second Degree, or Manslaughter charge, Mr Zimmerman would be in the Pen, now.
Did not happen as you wish.
Zimmerman trial jurors to be instructed on lesser charge
What happened to Kamala Harris' campaign?
She had the black vote all locked up.
She had the black vote all locked up.
No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
LarsMac;1468244 wrote: You should probably spend a little time reading up on the differences between Criminal and Civil Law.
I could ask my nephew the lawyer to suggest some light reading.
Real funny.
I can't afford free advice.
You have a problem with what I posted?
Share it.
I am sure your boy is always welcomed to join Forum Gargen and share his pearls of wisdom.
Meanwhile, I'll try to stay on topic.
I could ask my nephew the lawyer to suggest some light reading.
Real funny.
I can't afford free advice.
You have a problem with what I posted?
Share it.
I am sure your boy is always welcomed to join Forum Gargen and share his pearls of wisdom.
Meanwhile, I'll try to stay on topic.
What happened to Kamala Harris' campaign?
She had the black vote all locked up.
She had the black vote all locked up.
No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
tude dog;1468246 wrote: OK
Did not happen as you wish.
Zimmerman trial jurors to be instructed on lesser charge
I stand corrected.
Second degree Murder.
From CNN
However, the point stands:
Second-degree murder is defined as a killing carried out with hatred, ill will or spite, but is not premeditated. To convict Zimmerman of manslaughter, jurors would have had to believe he "intentionally committed an act or acts that caused the death of Trayvon Martin."
It was fairly obvious that Zimmerman probably did not set out to shoot Martin, but was caught up in the moment. (I love those words. Reminds me of the Reginald Denny thing)
Martin's family could still probably go after George in civil court.
And likewise, regardless of the Grand Jury findings, Brown's family could go after Wilson in civil courts.
Wilson's argument fails the "Self-defense" argument after Brown retreated and Wilson exited his car and shot at Brown, again,..., and again, and again, and again.
And, no, I do not "have a problem" with what you posted.
Did not happen as you wish.
Zimmerman trial jurors to be instructed on lesser charge
I stand corrected.
Second degree Murder.
From CNN
However, the point stands:
Second-degree murder is defined as a killing carried out with hatred, ill will or spite, but is not premeditated. To convict Zimmerman of manslaughter, jurors would have had to believe he "intentionally committed an act or acts that caused the death of Trayvon Martin."
It was fairly obvious that Zimmerman probably did not set out to shoot Martin, but was caught up in the moment. (I love those words. Reminds me of the Reginald Denny thing)
Martin's family could still probably go after George in civil court.
And likewise, regardless of the Grand Jury findings, Brown's family could go after Wilson in civil courts.
Wilson's argument fails the "Self-defense" argument after Brown retreated and Wilson exited his car and shot at Brown, again,..., and again, and again, and again.
And, no, I do not "have a problem" with what you posted.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
Grand jury evidence reveals Michael Brown taunted Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson | Daily Mail Online
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
posted by bruv
I believe in the UK evidence is weighed by The Director of Public Prosecution a professional legal body.
Not the UK the cps is just in england and wales, scotland and northern ireland have a different legal system.
posted by larsmac
A Grand Jury is a group of citizens called up to review the evidence that the prosecutor has, and determine if the evidence can lead to a successful prosecution of a case.
So when they hand down an indictment, they are saying that the evidence points to criminal activity by the subject of the case.
In this event, there is not enough evidence to support a criminal case against the officer. Generally, the actual details of evidence presented to the Grand Jury are never made public.
The family can, and probably will, pursue civil charges of wrongful death against Officer Wilson. In that case, the details will probably be made public.
Can they decide that a formal prosecution might be in the public interest? (our cps and procurator fiscals (scottish sytem) have that option if they wish to take it) i.e so that justice can be seen to have been done then again maybe oif they release all the evidence.
I believe in the UK evidence is weighed by The Director of Public Prosecution a professional legal body.
Not the UK the cps is just in england and wales, scotland and northern ireland have a different legal system.
posted by larsmac
A Grand Jury is a group of citizens called up to review the evidence that the prosecutor has, and determine if the evidence can lead to a successful prosecution of a case.
So when they hand down an indictment, they are saying that the evidence points to criminal activity by the subject of the case.
In this event, there is not enough evidence to support a criminal case against the officer. Generally, the actual details of evidence presented to the Grand Jury are never made public.
The family can, and probably will, pursue civil charges of wrongful death against Officer Wilson. In that case, the details will probably be made public.
Can they decide that a formal prosecution might be in the public interest? (our cps and procurator fiscals (scottish sytem) have that option if they wish to take it) i.e so that justice can be seen to have been done then again maybe oif they release all the evidence.
No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
gmc;1468259 wrote: posted by bruv
Not the UK the cps is just in england and wales, scotland and northern ireland have a different legal system.
posted by larsmac
Can they decide that a formal prosecution might be in the public interest? (our cps and procurator fiscals (scottish sytem) have that option if they wish to take it) i.e so that justice can be seen to have been done then again maybe oif they release all the evidence.
I am fairly certain that is outside the grand jury's charter.
how does a grand jury work
Not the UK the cps is just in england and wales, scotland and northern ireland have a different legal system.
posted by larsmac
Can they decide that a formal prosecution might be in the public interest? (our cps and procurator fiscals (scottish sytem) have that option if they wish to take it) i.e so that justice can be seen to have been done then again maybe oif they release all the evidence.
I am fairly certain that is outside the grand jury's charter.
how does a grand jury work
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
LarsMac;1468254 wrote: I stand corrected.
Second degree Murder.
Better yet, seeing just how lame their case was going Jury may consider lesser charge of manslaughter, judge rules.
I can't find a video, but I do remember George's lawyer having a chitfit over the last minute proposal.
It wasn't admitted but the prigs also tried for
Defense attorney Don West called the possible lesser charge of third-degree felony murder "outrageous" and a "trick" by the state. He said prosecutors asked for the inclusion at the last minute.
"Just when I thought this case couldn't get any more bizarre, the state is seeking third-degree felony murder based on child abuse?" West said.
The offense of third-degree felony murder would be premised on the idea that Zimmerman committed child abuse since 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was underage when he was fatally shot. Prosecutors said they will not pursue the lesser charge of aggravated assault, as they initially indicated.
Murder vs. Manslaughter
From CNN
LarsMac;1468254 wrote: However, the point stands:
It was fairly obvious that Zimmerman probably did not set out to shoot Martin, but was caught up in the moment. (I love those words. Reminds me of the Reginald Denny thing)
Flat on his back as someone is beating the crap out of him.
LarsMac;1468254 wrote: Martin's family could still probably go after George in civil court.
No, not really. Reminds me of a law we have here in Kansas.
776.032ƒImmunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use or threatened use of force.—
(1)ƒA person who uses or threatens to use force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in such conduct and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use or threatened use of such force by the person, personal representative, or heirs of the person against whom the force was used or threatened, unless the person against whom force was used or threatened is a law enforcement officer
The 2014 Florida Statutes
LarsMac;1468254 wrote: Wilson's argument fails the "Self-defense" argument after Brown retreated and Wilson exited his car and shot at Brown, again,..., and again, and again, and again.
Well, cops do often get out of the car. Part of the job, even if it means using a gun for self defense.
LarsMac;1468254 wrote: And, no, I do not "have a problem" with what you posted.
Second degree Murder.
Better yet, seeing just how lame their case was going Jury may consider lesser charge of manslaughter, judge rules.
I can't find a video, but I do remember George's lawyer having a chitfit over the last minute proposal.
It wasn't admitted but the prigs also tried for
Defense attorney Don West called the possible lesser charge of third-degree felony murder "outrageous" and a "trick" by the state. He said prosecutors asked for the inclusion at the last minute.
"Just when I thought this case couldn't get any more bizarre, the state is seeking third-degree felony murder based on child abuse?" West said.
The offense of third-degree felony murder would be premised on the idea that Zimmerman committed child abuse since 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was underage when he was fatally shot. Prosecutors said they will not pursue the lesser charge of aggravated assault, as they initially indicated.
Murder vs. Manslaughter
From CNN
LarsMac;1468254 wrote: However, the point stands:
It was fairly obvious that Zimmerman probably did not set out to shoot Martin, but was caught up in the moment. (I love those words. Reminds me of the Reginald Denny thing)
Flat on his back as someone is beating the crap out of him.
LarsMac;1468254 wrote: Martin's family could still probably go after George in civil court.
No, not really. Reminds me of a law we have here in Kansas.
776.032ƒImmunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use or threatened use of force.—
(1)ƒA person who uses or threatens to use force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in such conduct and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use or threatened use of such force by the person, personal representative, or heirs of the person against whom the force was used or threatened, unless the person against whom force was used or threatened is a law enforcement officer
The 2014 Florida Statutes
LarsMac;1468254 wrote: Wilson's argument fails the "Self-defense" argument after Brown retreated and Wilson exited his car and shot at Brown, again,..., and again, and again, and again.
Well, cops do often get out of the car. Part of the job, even if it means using a gun for self defense.
LarsMac;1468254 wrote: And, no, I do not "have a problem" with what you posted.
What happened to Kamala Harris' campaign?
She had the black vote all locked up.
She had the black vote all locked up.
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
I am not linking our spokesman here for any other reason but there are some good video's In this article about the rioting.
Simon Darby: Riot Dynamics & Media Distrust
Simon Darby: Riot Dynamics & Media Distrust
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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Oscar Namechange
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- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
The New York Times published Officer Wilson's address ????
New York Times Publishes Darren Wilson’s Address Info As Ferguson Simmers
New York Times Publishes Darren Wilson’s Address Info As Ferguson Simmers
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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Oscar Namechange
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No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
It's got worse.
Two FBI agents shot at house near Ferguson unrest | Reuters
Funny... didn't see any riots when OJ was acquited
Two FBI agents shot at house near Ferguson unrest | Reuters
Funny... didn't see any riots when OJ was acquited
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
Oscar Namechange;1468295 wrote: It's got worse.
Two FBI agents shot at house near Ferguson unrest | Reuters
Funny... didn't see any riots when OJ was acquited
That was unrelated to the goings on in Ferguson.
Though the media will now be digging up all sorts of stuff to fan the flames.
Amazing how the stupid behavior of a few can tilt the world.
Two FBI agents shot at house near Ferguson unrest | Reuters
Funny... didn't see any riots when OJ was acquited
That was unrelated to the goings on in Ferguson.
Though the media will now be digging up all sorts of stuff to fan the flames.
Amazing how the stupid behavior of a few can tilt the world.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
LarsMac;1468299 wrote: That was unrelated to the goings on in Ferguson.
Though the media will now be digging up all sorts of stuff to fan the flames.
Amazing how the stupid behavior of a few can tilt the world. It seems very similar to the riots here when police shot Mark Duggan... Looting shops has nothing to do with the Initial outrage... just opportunity.
Though the media will now be digging up all sorts of stuff to fan the flames.
Amazing how the stupid behavior of a few can tilt the world. It seems very similar to the riots here when police shot Mark Duggan... Looting shops has nothing to do with the Initial outrage... just opportunity.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
tude dog;1468248 wrote: Real funny.
I can't afford free advice.
You have a problem with what I posted?
Share it.
I am sure your boy is always welcomed to join Forum Gargen and share his pearls of wisdom.
Meanwhile, I'll try to stay on topic.
The problem is that criminal law require proof beyond reasonable doubt whereas civil law requires a balance of probability. If the Grand Jury dismissed the case because the evidence did not provide the certainty required in a criminal court then a civil case could easily succeed.
I can't afford free advice.
You have a problem with what I posted?
Share it.
I am sure your boy is always welcomed to join Forum Gargen and share his pearls of wisdom.
Meanwhile, I'll try to stay on topic.
The problem is that criminal law require proof beyond reasonable doubt whereas civil law requires a balance of probability. If the Grand Jury dismissed the case because the evidence did not provide the certainty required in a criminal court then a civil case could easily succeed.
No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
Oscar Namechange;1468295 wrote: It's got worse.
Two FBI agents shot at house near Ferguson unrest | Reuters
Funny... didn't see any riots when OJ was acquited
But you did in the LA video case which is a much more appropriate comparison.
Two FBI agents shot at house near Ferguson unrest | Reuters
Funny... didn't see any riots when OJ was acquited
But you did in the LA video case which is a much more appropriate comparison.
No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
Oscar Namechange;1468300 wrote: It seems very similar to the riots here when police shot Mark Duggan... Looting shops has nothing to do with the Initial outrage... just opportunity.
When law breaks down there will always be opportunists - what you need to ask is why did law break down in the first place.
When law breaks down there will always be opportunists - what you need to ask is why did law break down in the first place.
No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
Bryn Mawr;1468301 wrote: The problem is that criminal law require proof beyond reasonable doubt whereas civil law requires a balance of probability. If the Grand Jury dismissed the case because the evidence did not provide the certainty required in a criminal court then a civil case could easily succeed.
Maybe, maybe not.
Far as I know the Grand Jury was only tasked to determine is there was cause to bring criminal charges.
I am not a lawyer. I imagine all kinds of evidence would be brought out in a civil trial not favorable to the plaintiff should they sue.
Considering all we know about Michael Brown, if he were relative to me I would just let that dog sleep.
Maybe, maybe not.
Far as I know the Grand Jury was only tasked to determine is there was cause to bring criminal charges.
I am not a lawyer. I imagine all kinds of evidence would be brought out in a civil trial not favorable to the plaintiff should they sue.
Considering all we know about Michael Brown, if he were relative to me I would just let that dog sleep.
What happened to Kamala Harris' campaign?
She had the black vote all locked up.
She had the black vote all locked up.
No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
My wife and I are at odds on this one.
Her position is emotional, "Why did he have to shoot? Couldn't he have shot less times? Doesn't he have a taser? That boy was just a teenager!"
My position is logical,"The boy struck the officer first, trapped him in his car, and went for his gun. The boy could have run when he was shot in the hand, but he charged back. The boy was a criminal who had just robbed a storeowner, he was a bad guy."
I'm with Tude Dog on this one. The criminal got what he was asking for. Anybody or any cause who stands up for a known criminal, uses him as an excuse to loot and pillage, then holds him up as a martyr ...is not worth my consideration or sympathy.
The black community should be asking themselves, if an anglo boy had acted the same way, robbing shopowners and attacking police officers, how would they feel about the boy being shot?
(I should also mention that I am always astounded when black communities riot and burn down stores owned by their own members. How does that help anyone? They should be ashamed of themselves.)
Her position is emotional, "Why did he have to shoot? Couldn't he have shot less times? Doesn't he have a taser? That boy was just a teenager!"
My position is logical,"The boy struck the officer first, trapped him in his car, and went for his gun. The boy could have run when he was shot in the hand, but he charged back. The boy was a criminal who had just robbed a storeowner, he was a bad guy."
I'm with Tude Dog on this one. The criminal got what he was asking for. Anybody or any cause who stands up for a known criminal, uses him as an excuse to loot and pillage, then holds him up as a martyr ...is not worth my consideration or sympathy.
The black community should be asking themselves, if an anglo boy had acted the same way, robbing shopowners and attacking police officers, how would they feel about the boy being shot?
(I should also mention that I am always astounded when black communities riot and burn down stores owned by their own members. How does that help anyone? They should be ashamed of themselves.)
No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
No one has brought in the latest tragedy yet, Tamir Rice who appears to be alone in a park, with police answering a call from somebody that says clearly the gun might be a fake.
BBC
It is the culture of fear that.........he might kill me......it might be loaded.
BBC
It is the culture of fear that.........he might kill me......it might be loaded.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
You're probably both right.
Brown may have been only 18, but he was a BIG boy. And he was stoned, and not thinking straight.
We do not know all the details of the conversation he and Officer Wilson had, but obviously he intimidated the cop.
However, after he was first wounded while wrestling with the officer in his car, and retreated, that should have been the end if it, in my opinion, but by then Officer Wilson was in a reactive mindset, and the 'suspect' was getting away. He did what cops are supposed to do. He tried to apprehend the perpetrator. Now, Brown begins to return to the office, and apparently in a threatening way, and the officer begins shooting, again.
I am pretty sure that if a guy that big was coming at me in an attack stance, I'd probably shoot his ass, too.
Problem is, there are too many instances where police kill unarmed citizens, and too many of the ones we hear of in the media are when the unarmed citizen is black and the cop is white.
And in this case, the cop shot 12 times, and hit the guy 6. Where did those other bullets go?
The other part of the problem is deeper than the two men here.
Why does Ferguson, a town of nearly 70% black population have a nearly all-white police force?
That is just asking for trouble.
There has been a history of cops in Ferguson abusing their power against blacks. The Brown shooting was a bucket of gas tossed on a long-smoldering fire.
Brown may have been only 18, but he was a BIG boy. And he was stoned, and not thinking straight.
We do not know all the details of the conversation he and Officer Wilson had, but obviously he intimidated the cop.
However, after he was first wounded while wrestling with the officer in his car, and retreated, that should have been the end if it, in my opinion, but by then Officer Wilson was in a reactive mindset, and the 'suspect' was getting away. He did what cops are supposed to do. He tried to apprehend the perpetrator. Now, Brown begins to return to the office, and apparently in a threatening way, and the officer begins shooting, again.
I am pretty sure that if a guy that big was coming at me in an attack stance, I'd probably shoot his ass, too.
Problem is, there are too many instances where police kill unarmed citizens, and too many of the ones we hear of in the media are when the unarmed citizen is black and the cop is white.
And in this case, the cop shot 12 times, and hit the guy 6. Where did those other bullets go?
The other part of the problem is deeper than the two men here.
Why does Ferguson, a town of nearly 70% black population have a nearly all-white police force?
That is just asking for trouble.
There has been a history of cops in Ferguson abusing their power against blacks. The Brown shooting was a bucket of gas tossed on a long-smoldering fire.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
LarsMac;1468328 wrote:
Why does Ferguson, a town of nearly 70% black population have a nearly all-white police force?
That is just asking for trouble.
Yeah, that's what I said too.
On another note, St. Louis has a really bad gang problem, so I would probably be more cautious if I were a police officer in that environment. You won't hear any news channel talking about how bad the black gangs in Ferguson and St.Louis are though, I'll bet.
Why does Ferguson, a town of nearly 70% black population have a nearly all-white police force?
That is just asking for trouble.
Yeah, that's what I said too.
On another note, St. Louis has a really bad gang problem, so I would probably be more cautious if I were a police officer in that environment. You won't hear any news channel talking about how bad the black gangs in Ferguson and St.Louis are though, I'll bet.
No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
LarsMac;1468328 wrote: The other part of the problem is deeper than the two men here.
Why does Ferguson, a town of nearly 70% black population have a nearly all-white police force?
That is just asking for trouble.
There has been a history of cops in Ferguson abusing their power against blacks. The Brown shooting was a bucket of gas tossed on a long-smoldering fire.
Perhaps another question that should be answered is how many blacks applied for positions in the Police Force.
The problem with a culture where the right to bear arms is held as a divine right is that as a result there is bound to be paranoia, and that as part of everday self survival one has to assume that everyone else is going to be armed & therefore a potential threat. Also, as I understand it, police are trained that when they shoot, they shoot to kill as quickly & as effectively as possible, as a target who is merely wounded can continue to be a danger as far as guns are concerned, so there can be no second guessing.
Most of the time you tend to find that riots are far less politically motivated than an organised opportunity to take advantage of a situation in order to loot whatever you can & blame it on a totally unrelated incident. They are very rarely spontaneous, as was seen by the store owners boarding up their stores when they heard a riot was being planned by their own people. Just who are they rioting against? Certainly not anyone who's going to give a damn or do anything about it. It's organised crime - no more, no less.
Why does Ferguson, a town of nearly 70% black population have a nearly all-white police force?
That is just asking for trouble.
There has been a history of cops in Ferguson abusing their power against blacks. The Brown shooting was a bucket of gas tossed on a long-smoldering fire.
Perhaps another question that should be answered is how many blacks applied for positions in the Police Force.
The problem with a culture where the right to bear arms is held as a divine right is that as a result there is bound to be paranoia, and that as part of everday self survival one has to assume that everyone else is going to be armed & therefore a potential threat. Also, as I understand it, police are trained that when they shoot, they shoot to kill as quickly & as effectively as possible, as a target who is merely wounded can continue to be a danger as far as guns are concerned, so there can be no second guessing.
Most of the time you tend to find that riots are far less politically motivated than an organised opportunity to take advantage of a situation in order to loot whatever you can & blame it on a totally unrelated incident. They are very rarely spontaneous, as was seen by the store owners boarding up their stores when they heard a riot was being planned by their own people. Just who are they rioting against? Certainly not anyone who's going to give a damn or do anything about it. It's organised crime - no more, no less.
No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
FourPart;1468332 wrote: Most of the time you tend to find that riots are far less politically motivated than an organised opportunity to take advantage of a situation in order to loot whatever you can & blame it on a totally unrelated incident. They are very rarely spontaneous, as was seen by the store owners boarding up their stores when they heard a riot was being planned by their own people. Just who are they rioting against? Certainly not anyone who's going to give a damn or do anything about it. It's organised crime - no more, no less.
Yeah, a police officer was on TV this morning saying the same thing, that there was a core group that had no intention of being peaceful. They had actually traveled to the community for the chance to loot and riot.
Yeah, a police officer was on TV this morning saying the same thing, that there was a core group that had no intention of being peaceful. They had actually traveled to the community for the chance to loot and riot.
No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
LarsMac;1468328 wrote:
Problem is, there are too many instances where police kill unarmed citizens, and too many of the ones we hear of in the media are when the unarmed citizen is black and the cop is white.
Hmm
I have come to wonder why "unarmed" means anything?
LarsMac;1468328 wrote: And in this case, the cop shot 12 times, and hit the guy 6. Where did those other bullets go?
Actually, I don't see that as all that unusual in such situations.
LarsMac;1468328 wrote: The other part of the problem is deeper than the two men here.
Why does Ferguson, a town of nearly 70% black population have a nearly all-white police force?
Maybe blacks there don't want to be cop?
LarsMac;1468328 wrote: That is just asking for trouble.
So what do you propose to do about it?
I lived in Los Angeles, CA
Can't find, but after several lawsuits the LAPD was required to look like the community, whatever that means.
Problem is, there are too many instances where police kill unarmed citizens, and too many of the ones we hear of in the media are when the unarmed citizen is black and the cop is white.
Hmm
I have come to wonder why "unarmed" means anything?
LarsMac;1468328 wrote: And in this case, the cop shot 12 times, and hit the guy 6. Where did those other bullets go?
Actually, I don't see that as all that unusual in such situations.
LarsMac;1468328 wrote: The other part of the problem is deeper than the two men here.
Why does Ferguson, a town of nearly 70% black population have a nearly all-white police force?
Maybe blacks there don't want to be cop?
LarsMac;1468328 wrote: That is just asking for trouble.
So what do you propose to do about it?
I lived in Los Angeles, CA
Can't find, but after several lawsuits the LAPD was required to look like the community, whatever that means.
What happened to Kamala Harris' campaign?
She had the black vote all locked up.
She had the black vote all locked up.
No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
Some interesting stuff, here: dorian-johnson-story.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
LarsMac;1468343 wrote: Some interesting stuff, here: dorian-johnson-story.
Thank you.
Made it clear that Brown was a thug and brute.
Thank you.
Made it clear that Brown was a thug and brute.
What happened to Kamala Harris' campaign?
She had the black vote all locked up.
She had the black vote all locked up.
No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
tude dog;1468476 wrote: Thank you.
Made it clear that Brown was a thug and brute.
Brown was a young man being stupid.
Hardly the same thing.
And I suspect that Wilson was not exactly the bastion of purity that he portrayed himself to be, either.
As usual, the truth is somewhere in the middle.
Made it clear that Brown was a thug and brute.
Brown was a young man being stupid.
Hardly the same thing.
And I suspect that Wilson was not exactly the bastion of purity that he portrayed himself to be, either.
As usual, the truth is somewhere in the middle.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
LarsMac;1468479 wrote: Brown was a young man being stupid.
Hardly the same thing.
And I suspect that Wilson was not exactly the bastion of purity that he portrayed himself to be, either.
As usual, the truth is somewhere in the middle.
No middle here.
The world is a safer place todoay.
Hardly the same thing.
And I suspect that Wilson was not exactly the bastion of purity that he portrayed himself to be, either.
As usual, the truth is somewhere in the middle.
No middle here.
The world is a safer place todoay.
What happened to Kamala Harris' campaign?
She had the black vote all locked up.
She had the black vote all locked up.
-
AnneBoleyn
- Posts: 6631
- Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:17 pm
No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
Ridiculous. If you, TD, think the world a safer place today because of the death of Michael Brown, then you are being quite naive.
No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
The ruling class needs police to control this nation by force. That's why they didn't charge Darren Wilson.
The reaction from people is fierce. So they made a show of resignation without severance pay. A little compensation for Michael Brown's life.
The reaction from people is fierce. So they made a show of resignation without severance pay. A little compensation for Michael Brown's life.
No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
AnneBoleyn;1468505 wrote: Ridiculous. If you, TD, think the world a safer place today because of the death of Michael Brown, then you are being quite naive.
World wide, minicule.
Can't see any great accomplishments coming from this guy.
World wide, minicule.
Can't see any great accomplishments coming from this guy.
What happened to Kamala Harris' campaign?
She had the black vote all locked up.
She had the black vote all locked up.
No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
LarsMac;1468479 wrote: Brown was a young man being stupid.
Intimidating shop owners and robbing them is not "stupid" behavior. It is criminal behavior.
Here's how to get along with the police: don't commit crimes.
Pay attention to Brown's behavior in this video of him robbing the shop owner. You can see him steal the $50 box of cigars and hand them to his friend. When the shop owner confronts him, Brown assaults the poor guy, shoving him into a rack. Worse yet, Brown turns back and intimidates him after that.
Brown is not a martyr. He's not a "poor black kid." He was an out-of-control menace and criminal. His parents incited a riot and cost the people of Ferguson hundreds of thousands of dollars. They should both be charged for that and I am totally sick of this whole attitude where it is OK to commit crimes and then claim the the system is against you because of your race. That's a cop out and sheer hypocrisy.
12 people, including black men and women, found that the officer's story fit the physical evidence to a T. Seeing Brown's attitude, I can well believe that he had a chip on his shoulder that day and caused the entire incident. As for the cop, if I was a cop and I saw two men, fitting the description of robbery suspects, walking down the middle of the street, I'd ask them to come over to my car too. The guy was doing what he was paid to do and is totally righteous.
Intimidating shop owners and robbing them is not "stupid" behavior. It is criminal behavior.
Here's how to get along with the police: don't commit crimes.
Pay attention to Brown's behavior in this video of him robbing the shop owner. You can see him steal the $50 box of cigars and hand them to his friend. When the shop owner confronts him, Brown assaults the poor guy, shoving him into a rack. Worse yet, Brown turns back and intimidates him after that.
Brown is not a martyr. He's not a "poor black kid." He was an out-of-control menace and criminal. His parents incited a riot and cost the people of Ferguson hundreds of thousands of dollars. They should both be charged for that and I am totally sick of this whole attitude where it is OK to commit crimes and then claim the the system is against you because of your race. That's a cop out and sheer hypocrisy.
12 people, including black men and women, found that the officer's story fit the physical evidence to a T. Seeing Brown's attitude, I can well believe that he had a chip on his shoulder that day and caused the entire incident. As for the cop, if I was a cop and I saw two men, fitting the description of robbery suspects, walking down the middle of the street, I'd ask them to come over to my car too. The guy was doing what he was paid to do and is totally righteous.
No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
I went along with you until the phrase " Totally righteous".......totally righteous people in a half decent world don't normally gun down bully bad boys.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
No Indictment In Michael Brown shooting
The only issue I would take with your post is that the officer had no knowledge of the robbery when he and Brown had their confrontation. Police generally are instructed not to fire on fleeing suspects. This is where the problem began. And I doubt that Officer Wilson was the pillar of courtesy he claimed to be when first confronting the two.
Yes, Brown set into motion the situation that resulted in his demise, and bears the ultimate responsibility for his own life.
The Grand Jury had the singular task of deciding if there was enough evidence to indicate Officer Wilson might have committed a crime. Obviously they decided there was not.
Does this mean that Wilson is completely free of responsibility? I simply suggested that he could have handled the situation better, in my opinion, and perhaps not had to shoot the guy.
Yes, Brown set into motion the situation that resulted in his demise, and bears the ultimate responsibility for his own life.
The Grand Jury had the singular task of deciding if there was enough evidence to indicate Officer Wilson might have committed a crime. Obviously they decided there was not.
Does this mean that Wilson is completely free of responsibility? I simply suggested that he could have handled the situation better, in my opinion, and perhaps not had to shoot the guy.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence