Cruise Control

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:58 pm

Horse Racing Is one of the most dangerous sports. Take champion Jumps Jockey, AP McCoy... he Is now uninsurable.

Many of the broken bones and even deaths In HR are down to the horse falling on them following being thrown or a fall but to clad them up from neck to scalp would Impede movement, exactly the same as It would cricketers.

It sounds harsh but they enter the sport knowing the risks of Injury. A ball travelling at 100 mph Is as dangerous as a race horse with a cruising speed of 45 miles an hour. They know the risks and If they clad themselves from head to foot then the quality of the sport diminishes with the restrictions of movement.

FG-administator · Post by **FG-administator** » Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:23 pm

Oscar Namechange;1468630 wrote: as dangerous as a race horse with a cruising speed of 45 miles an hourA race horse might, I imagine, achieve that speed if you dropped the brute out of an aircraft at sufficient altitude, or encased it within a horsebox and put it behind a Range Rover on the M4. I'd be interested to know of any race horse which has cruised at that speed across the ground under its own steam. Have you ever seen a race horse cruise at that speed?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 6:56 am

FG;1468635 wrote: A race horse might, I imagine, achieve that speed if you dropped the brute out of an aircraft at sufficient altitude, or encased it within a horsebox and put it behind a Range Rover on the M4. I'd be interested to know of any race horse which has cruised at that speed across the ground under its own steam. Have you ever seen a race horse cruise at that speed?

Over the decades of racing, yes. The one that automatically springs to mind was Frankel In the 2,000 Guinea's In 10.58 which equates to officially ' over 42 mph'

Yet there has been many who can reach a speed and cruise at 45 mph

Here are over 5,000 Thoroughbred foals born in Great Britain every year, and over 110,000 born worldwide. Each one can trace their ancestry back through the father’s line to one of three horses – the Godolphin Arabian, the Byerley Turk or the Darley Arabian. Originally bred to cope with endurance tests as mature horses, the nature of the Thoroughbred has changed along with the demands of racing. They have become much larger, faster over shorter distances and are maturing earlier. Thoroughbreds are often highly-strung creatures but it is this nervous energy which enables them to run faster than other breeds of horse. They are capable of clocking approximately 45 miles per hour.

Glossary - OSL

However, over the years, there have been exceptions to this

FG-administator · Post by **FG-administator** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 7:57 am

Oscar Namechange;1468645 wrote: [QUOTE=FG;1468635][QUOTE=Oscar Namechange;1468630]as dangerous as a race horse with a cruising speed of 45 miles an hourHave you ever seen a race horse cruise at that speed?[/QUOTE]Over the decades of racing, yes.[/QUOTE]Someone should tell the Guinness Book of Records, they appear to be woefully ill-informed. Or, I suppose, just possibly, you exaggerate.

Fastest speed for a race horse

You do know, I take it, what "cruise" means in relation to speed? Frankel's sub-45mph burst was measured over a single furlong. 220 yards. Most people would call that a brief sprint, and the wretched animal still didn't manage to hit (much less cruise at!) the 45mph you fantasized about - despite the Guardian's correspondent describing the performance as "possibly the greatest in the history of Thoroughbred racing".

Over the decades of racing, yes, you've seen a race horse cruise at 45mph? Seriously?

Cruise:

Of a motor vehicle or aircraft) travel smoothly at a moderate or economical speed.

Achieve an objective with ease, especially in sports.

Race horses cruise at 45mph?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:10 am

FG;1468650 wrote: Someone should tell the Guinness Book of Records, they appear to be woefully informed. Or, I suppose, just possibly, you exaggerate.

Fastest speed for a race horse

You do know, I take it, what "cruise" means in relation to speed? Frankel's sub-45mph burst was measured over a single furlong. 220 yards. Most people would call that a brief sprint, and it still didn't hit the 45mph we're discussing.

How can I be exaggerating ? I have given you the link that horses In training are capable of reaching speeds of 45 mph ?

Admittedly, they are few and far between, and often what they do on the gallops at home differ from that on a race course.

The GBOR link you have given Is for an American horse... there have been British horses over the decades that can reach 45 mph...

The now retired Australian Mare ' Black Caviar ' had a top speed of 45.09 mph.

Black Spots – Things you may not know about Black Caviar | Black Caviar

I have to go out but If I have time later, I could find some more that spring to mind especially some of the Arabian race horses.

Another Is America's retired ' Zenyatta' It states here her speed was 40 mph but I believe she surpassed that In her career... will have to check my stats later.

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/aug/10 ... e-delmar10

Post by **Peter Lake** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:49 am

FG;1468650 wrote: Someone should tell the Guinness Book of Records, they appear to be woefully ill-informed. Or, I suppose, just possibly, you exaggerate.

Fastest speed for a race horse

What Oscar said ( i am no expert ) is correct. Don't forget that for the fastest horse to be entered into the guinness book of records, depends solely on the owner/trainer recording and proving the event. If they don't bother with the book, then it's not going to appear or get updated. I suspect they don't bother because records are constantly being beaten.

Many horses reach those speeds when at home in the comfort of training with their regular schooler, the familiarity of pace makers and horses they know around them. When they get on a course, they are highly strung and can get spooked out by strange horses around them, strange surroundings, strange jockey, different track and large crowds, all of which can affect performance and exactly why some of even the champions need pace makers entered in the same race.

This is the truth of it.

The fastest thoroughbred racehorse has reached top speeds of 55mph

Read more at 6 Animals Faster Than Usain Bolt - Competitor.com

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:54 am

Oh before I go out... just recalled another

The American ' Secretariat' reached speeds of 49 mph

https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/i ... 357AAcLFrJ

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:59 am

Going back even further... Seabiscuit and War Admiral reached speeds of 45 mph plus In a showdown between the two 75 years ago In America...

Seabiscuit vs War Admiral: the horse race that stopped the nation | Sport | The Guardian

Have to remember also... A horse can reach 50 mph on flat gallops at home on firm ground... on the day of the race, the course could be heavy going ie mud... that'll slow him down In the race.

FG-administator · Post by **FG-administator** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:03 am

Neither of you has any interest in the meaning of "cruise" in this context, I expect. I notice you're both now using "reach" and "top speed".

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:11 am

FG;1468657 wrote: Neither of you has any interest in the meaning of "cruise" in this context, I expect. I notice you're both now using "reach" and "top speed".

The top speed Is Ideally when the horse has been taken off the bridle In the final stages ie the horse can run free. The jockey will keep the horse on the bridle to avoid the horse burning too much energy and taking off In the Initial stages. On the bridle, the speed Is different to the top speed off the bridle.

The world record for a horse galloping over a short, sprint distance is 88 kilometres per hour (55 mph).

Speeds are calculated on average speed of the entire race.

All horses move naturally with four basic gaits: the four-beat walk, which averages 6.4 kilometres per hour (4.0 mph); the two-beat trot or jog, which averages 13 to 19 kilometres per hour (8.1 to 12 mph) (faster for harness racing horses); and the leaping gaits known as the canter or lope (a three-beat gait that is 19 to 24 kilometres per hour (12 to 15 mph), and the gallop. The gallop averages 40 to 48 kilometres per hour (25 to 30 mph). The world record for a horse galloping over a short, sprint distance is 88 kilometres per hour (55 mph). Besides these basic gaits, some horses perform a two-beat pace, instead of the trot. In addition, there are several four-beat “ambling gaits that are approximately the speed of a trot or pace, though smoother to ride. These include the lateral slow gait, rack, running walk, and tÃ¶lt as well as the diagonal fox trot. Ambling gaits are often genetic traits in specific breeds, known collectively as gaited horses. In most cases, gaited horses replace the standard trot with one of the ambling gaits.

horse | Speed of Animals

I suggest It Is you who has no Idea of what you are talking about. Your exact words were:

A race horse might, I imagine, achieve that speed if you dropped the brute out of an aircraft at sufficient altitude, or encased it within a horsebox and put it behind a Range Rover on the M4

We have proved that they do and more.

Post by **Peter Lake** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:28 am

FG;1468657 wrote: Neither of you has any interest in the meaning of "cruise" in this context, I expect. I notice you're both now using "reach" and "top speed".

If you missed her link, i'll put it here again.

This horse is galloping at 44 m.p.h. that's galloping i.e. cruising, not racing to the line off the bridle which would be his top speed.

What part of this are you having trouble with ?

FG-administator · Post by **FG-administator** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:16 am

Peter Lake;1468660 wrote: This horse is galloping at 44 m.p.h. that's galloping i.e. cruising, not racing to the line off the bridle which would be his top speed.

What part of this are you having trouble with ?

I'll start with the fact that 44mph is less than 45mph if you like.

I could easily use words to the effect that this horse is a game one, it can keep cruising along at this pace for hours on end. I could never apply cruising to galloping at a sprint.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:31 am

FG;1468661 wrote: I'll start with the fact that 44mph is less than 45mph if you like.

I could easily use words to the effect that this horse is a game one, it can keep cruising along at this pace for hours on end. I could never apply cruising to galloping at a sprint.

If a horse has a top speed of 55 mph, then It can have a cruising speed of 45 mph plus.

When Black Caviar ran at Newmarket, she averaged better than 19 metres per second for three consecutive furlongs, and was her greatest effort," Accardi said. This horse did it over 600m and in a canter."

he Black Flash has in all but a handful of occasions put her races to bed just inside the 400m point, allowing jockey Luke Nolen the luxury of giving her a cosy run to the line.

The answer lies in the extraordinary length of her stride and a detailed analysis of her "hidden sectionals" which show the ability to sustain a higher cruising speed for furlongs on end.

No Cookies | The Courier-Mail

There have been other examples over the years,

You poured scorn on a horse being able to reach speeds of 45 mph as I stated.

Your objections are ridiculous. This Is a sport you know nothing about. I could sit here all night throwing stats at you but I suspect your Intention here Is solely to argue the toss... I know I am right.. that's good enough for me. We have provided you with links to show that you are are wrong. You can argue with yourself.

Post by **Peter Lake** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:49 am

FG;1468661 wrote: I'll start with the fact that 44mph is less than 45mph if you like.

I could easily use words to the effect that this horse is a game one, it can keep cruising along at this pace for hours on end. I could never apply cruising to galloping at a sprint.

You are wrong. Oscar never said any horse could cruise along at this pace for hours on end and you know she didn't. She said race horses can have a cruising speed of 45 m.p.h.

Oscar has throughout provided information and links yet you have offered nothing to prove otherwise. All you do, is twist wording to suit your own opinion and on this one, you are wrong. I will also leave you here unless you can provide factual evidence to prove otherwise.

" As far as the racehorse goes speed can be considered to be its top cruising speed, a horse with fast speed will often appear to be cruising mid race."

Horsegears Racehorse Conformation Gears Theory

Perhaps you need to learn a little more on what cruising actually constitutes in horse racing.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:01 am

I fail to see how a World Record can be 55mph, yet according to Guinness Book Of Records (which is pretty much the International Definitive) it's only 43. Plus or minus a couple of mph I can accept, but nigh on 25% above that? That seems a bit far fetched to me. Furthermore, I fail to see how a typical 'cruising' speed can be in excess of the world record for a fastest speed.

Post by **Peter Lake** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:07 am

FourPart;1468664 wrote: I fail to see how a World Record can be 55mph, yet according to Guinness Book Of Records (which is pretty much the International Definitive) it's only 43. Plus or minus a couple of mph I can accept, but nigh on 25% above that? That seems a bit far fetched to me. Furthermore, I fail to see how a typical 'cruising' speed can be in excess of the world record for a fastest speed.

As i said earlier, records are being constantly broken in horse racing given there is something like 50,000 horses in training in the U.K. right now. Whether they appear in the guinness book of records depends entirely on the owner/trainer sending off the information and proving it. Most don't bother i am sure. Oscar has provided a wealth of information in links from the experts to show that the book of records holds no value in horse racing and should not be taken as fact. Or are you going to suggest that some book holds more value than up to date statistics from experts?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:21 am

In actual fact, this horse currently on the circuit...Is estimated to have a cruising speed even faster than Frankel at around 46 MPH... but the big difference here, Is Kingman doesn't even come off the bridle.

Gosden was thrilled with the horse - who was never off the bridle in winning what looked a hot contest.

Kingman strengthens 2000 Guineas case - Sports Betting News - bet365

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:26 am

When that book's international reputation is based on its accuracy, then yes. Anything else has no more credibility than the fisherman's claim of "The One That Got Away". I could just as easily say that Da Beasty has reached speeds faster than Barry Sheen - I just didn't bother to record it & get it verified.

I notice the Horse & Hounds forum has a similar discussion, where the typical cruiing speeds are said to be in the 30s (which I can fully accept). The claim of 55mph is only 5mph short of the speed of a cheetah - recognised as being the fastest animal in the world. True, the cheetah wouldn't be able to sustain those sorts of speeds, but even the Guinness World Record of 43 point something is only measured over something like 2 furlongs.

If something is not officially recorded & verified it's nothing but hearsay.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:54 am

FourPart;1468668 wrote: When that book's international reputation is based on its accuracy, then yes. Anything else has no more credibility than the fisherman's claim of "The One That Got Away". I could just as easily say that Da Beasty has reached speeds faster than Barry Sheen - I just didn't bother to record it & get it verified.

I notice the Horse & Hounds forum has a similar discussion, where the typical cruiing speeds are said to be in the 30s (which I can fully accept). The claim of 55mph is only 5mph short of the speed of a cheetah - recognised as being the fastest animal in the world. True, the cheetah wouldn't be able to sustain those sorts of speeds, but even the Guinness World Record of 43 point something is only measured over something like 2 furlongs.

If something is not officially recorded & verified it's nothing but hearsay.

Exactly. Races are not over 2 furlongs.

Hearsay ? OK... show me where In all the experts links I gave you, where was the hearsay ?

I'll tell you why the Guinness Book of Records stands for diddly squat In horse racing.

The fastest horses are Flat sprinters. Very often those horses will run two races a week or have a big race 10 days apart... that's because they use less energy than jumps horses over 3 miles plus.

Owners and trainers don't give a toss about the GBOR or breaking records. The object Is for the horse to win the race and win safely. This means that trainers are not going to push a horse worth one million to get over the line quicker so he can get In the Poxy GBOR., It's why many horses don't even come off the bridle In a race because the trainer will not risk the horse being out for the season, Injured with jar Injury or a stress fracture because he's pushed It to get In a bloody book. If a flat sprinter can comfortably win a race without exerting Itself, then he Is going to be all the better come the next race In 10 days time. No trainer will burn every ounce of the horses energy and risk stress fracture on firm ground just for a book.

That's why no-one In horse racing cares or even thinks about the book.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:59 am

Thus Da Beasty's record stands unchallenged.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:02 pm

FourPart;1468677 wrote: Thus Da Beasty's record stands unchallenged.

I repeat... show me where In all the stats I have provided here, Is the Hearsay ? Come on, show me.

Show me evidence In Black Caviar's race at Newmarket that disproves the expert timings. Come on, show me.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:11 pm

Here you go...

Widely believed to be faster than cheetahs in endurance races, the thoroughbred is the fastest breed of horse in the world, and can maintain a speed of 45 miles (72 km) per hour for a distance of more than a mile (1.6 km), making the Derby's 1¼ mile-long race the fastest two minutes in sports.

Kentucky Derby | FactMonster.com

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:20 pm

Oscar Namechange;1468680 wrote: Here you go...

Widely believed to be faster than cheetahs in endurance races, the thoroughbred is the fastest breed of horse in the world, and can maintain a speed of 45 miles (72 km) per hour for a distance of more than a mile (1.6 km), making the Derby's 1¼ mile-long race the fastest two minutes in sports.

Kentucky Derby | FactMonster.com
By the time the starter sounds the bell that opens the starting gate, the horses are raring to go. A fast start through the crowd is crucial in the first quarter-mile. But not too fast. In 1986 Top Avenger zoomed out of the gate and ripped through the first quarter-mile in 21 4/5 seconds (race times are measured in fifths of a second, not hundredths), setting a Kentucky Derby record. But Avenger couldn't keep up the pace and finished 19th.
3600 (seconds in an hour) / 87.2 (seconds per mile) = 41.284 mph (the fastest part of the run, as stated).

As for horses beating cheetahs in endurance races - isn't that exactly what I said in the first place?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:55 pm

FourPart;1468686 wrote: 3600 (seconds in an hour) / 87.2 (seconds per mile) = 41.284 mph (the fastest part of the run, as stated).

As for horses beating cheetahs in endurance races - isn't that exactly what I said in the first place?

You really are not getting this are you ?

You overlooked this from the article,

"I can't ever recall a horse being able to do that. If they do hit 19 (mps) they do it for one section. This horse did it over 600m and in a canter."

That means the 41.284 MPH you have calculated from that race was not 41.284 top speed... she was merely In a canter at 41.284... Had the horse been pushed to a full out gallop, her cruising speed would have notched a least 45 to 48 MPH. Surely you can understand that ?

Similarly the horse In the video clocking 44 MPH If pushed, could also exceed 45 MPH

I will reiterate as you seem to have a problem understanding this.

Can you Imagine the Scenario ? For example.. Frankel, worth over one million £'s runs The Sussex Stakes. Inside the last three furlongs, he's two lengths clear. The Jockey, who's job It Is to judge cruising speed and the cruising speeds of horses around him, has two choices. He can either keep the horse on the bridle, retaining his energy to the line or he can whip the horse as a signal to fasten and drive the horse relentlessly to the line, depleting all the horses energy. If he chooses the latter, the horse could suffer a stress fracture or tendon Injury and be out for the season. Frankel then has the Queen Elizabeth Stakes two weeks later with prize money worth half a million, but the horse Is laid up Injured or he has not enough time to replenish the energy from The Sussex stakes and loses the race. If the horse suffered a serious stress fracture, he could never race again.

In this scenario which occurs all the time, why would the jockey, trainer and owner risk all that just to break a record and get Into some bloody book ?

I highlighted the word ' Drive' because If you ever watch a race and you hear the commentator say ' Driven out to the line' that's because ' driven out ' Is where a race Is close heading Inside the last furlongs. The jockey then pulls the whip, takes the horse off the bridle and uses the whip to drive him to the line.

Example... In the 2013 Champion Hurdle, Annie Power never came off the bridle until they took the last fence because It was at that point she was challenged on the run In by More Of That.. Likewise, a horse could be on the bridle right through the race lying third and approaching the final furlong, the jockey will take him off the bridle and drive him to the line to overtake the two In front of him.

The reason It's not often you see a horse race at 45 MPH plus on a course Is because the jockey will not ruin the animal and for most If not all of the race, the horse Is being held back to preserve energy for a late challenge If needed. Those speeds are not speeds to get Into a book, they are to win the race comfortably. So really, cruising speeds of any race horse Is not Indicative of how fast he can run. Jockey's keep them at a comfortable cruising speed If the other horses In the race are doing similar. No-one Is there to break records that could ruin a champions career.

Sometimes, the Jockeys will not even whip the horse let alone take them off the bridle. The 2013 Triumph Hurdle was won by Our Conor by 15 lengths with the horse never had come off the bridle. Those jockey's behind him will not ruin the horse when given the distance, they can not possibly catch up and overtake him.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:16 am

In 2012 there was a massive buzz In the racing world. Black Caviar unbeaten was flown around the world from Australia to England. It was going to be the Mother of showdowns and once and for all rule who was the worlds greatest horse...

We were up for It but the Aussie's chickened out and ran her In The Jubilee Stakes Instead rather than face Frankel.

:yh_chickn:yh_chickn:yh_chickn

Still, It was wonderful to see her In England... massive blunder by the jockey approaching the line nearly cost her the race though.

And she got to meet The Queen of England... aww

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:17 am

This Is Interesting... so much was talked about Black Caviar vs Frankel.

If Black Caviar clocked 41 MPH at Newmarket In a canter...Then what Is Frankel's true cruising speed ?

This simulation was based on stride and cruising speed had the two met without the Aussie's chickening out.

So If Black Caviar notched 41 MPH In a canter.... bearing In mind the 2,000 Guinea's Is a race open to only Group 1 horses with all at an estimated cruising speed of 40 to 45 MPH... then I'd agree with pundits who put this performance at around 48 MPH

That's why Frankel has now commanded stud fee's of 100 Million quid.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:32 am

Go back 76 years

I believe ( as records had not begun here ) that Seabiscuit had a cruising speed of approx 45 MPH could have been more.. and a top speed In excess of 48 MPH

However, If my memory serves me correctly, It Is Secretariat who Is considered to still be the fastest horse In history.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:36 am

Another I recall that could go Into that time frame would be the Australian ' Phar Lap' from 1929

When estimating cruising speed In any race.. don't forget these horses are handicapped... ie weighted down based on previous performance.

I think I'll leave It here... I think It's safe to say that some race horses can achieve a cruising speed of 45 MPH as I stated and which I was questioned.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:44 am

Oscar Namechange;1468820 wrote: I think I'll leave It here... I think It's safe to say that some race horses can achieve a cruising speed of 45 MPH as I stated and which I was questioned.
That's because you have failed to cite official records. The only official record I have seen is that of the Guinness Book of Records, and that clearly states 43mph as the fastest (to date). As far as I am concerned, that remains the record. Anything else is Fisherman's Tales.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:58 am

FourPart;1468822 wrote: That's because you have failed to cite official records. The only official record I have seen is that of the Guinness Book of Records, and that clearly states 43mph as the fastest (to date). As far as I am concerned, that remains the record. Anything else is Fisherman's Tales.

Is there something wrong with you ?

If a horse can cruise at 41 MPH In a canter with weights under the saddle, how In your world do you believe that In a gallop ie cruising, with lower weights, they will not go faster? Dear God, my 10 year old nephew who's sitting here even gets that.

That's like driving a car In first gear and then claiming that It's the only speed It can do, when If you drove It In 5th gear, you'd do nought to 60 In seconds... or do you not comprehend that?

What bit of trainers do not bother with the GBOR do you not understand ?

Post by **Peter Lake** » Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:08 pm

Oscar was taken to her first race meeting at the age of two years old. Since, she's been on a thousand race courses, watched probably near a million races, talks daily with trainers, jockey's, grooms and owners and spends at least two hours a night watching replays of every race run that day. Then she'll sit on the phone to her brother and talk cruising speed, stride, distance, weight, jockey, ground condition, on the bridle, of the bridle blah blah blah. She has every horse racing book going back one hundred years on racing statistics including American and Australian. She has been on more yard visits than you could shake a stick at which includes watching race horses at home on the gallops without handicap.

Yet here you are professing to know more based on one entry in a book that no person in the industry uses? :yh_rotfl

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:37 pm

Something I'd be very Interested to see...

Over hurdles, the fastest horse In training In 2013 was considered to be Sizing Europe the former champion of The Queen Mother Champion Chase. His form certainly proved that... However, If you took away the hurdles of which the horse has to get Into a stride to take and regear on the other side... I'd love to know what Sprinter Sacre could notch up on the flat.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Fri Dec 05, 2014 1:41 pm

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:11 pm

I estimate that tumble weed to be maintaining a cruising speed of approx 12 MPH.

However, the world record for wind blown tumble weed was established In 1938 In Texas during a hurricane. It was clocked at a cruising speed of 36 MPH but was disqualified after a stewards enquiry found the tumble weed failed a doping test.

In 1972 a farmer from Missouri claimed tumble weed on his land had reached speeds In excess of 38 MPH but this could not be verified by the GBOR on account of the farmer not giving a toss as to proving It.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:43 pm

Fourpart, do you actually have any concept of a canter In horse racing ? An Idea of of the pace clocked by Black Caviar at 41 MPH at Newmarket In a canter ?

This Is a good example.

The 2013 World Hurdle at Cheltenham... Scroll through to 7 minutes. It's just a few seconds of the start of the race.

The start of the race where all jockey's are preserving their horses energy. This Is a canter In horse racing... and you think Black Caviar couldn't run faster than this and exceed 45 MPH ????????

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Fri Dec 05, 2014 3:51 pm

Once again you are missing the point. I have never denied the potential of any horse reaching that speed, just stating that I have not seen any official record of any horse having exceeded the official record stated by the Guinness Book of records. The key word here being 'Record', as in being recorded. I see things in a scientific way. Once something has been proved & independantly recorded, then I can accept it as fact. Anything less are unfounded claims. I don't deny the existence of the Loch Ness Monster. I don't doubt that there is some element of truth to its existence, but until such time as there is irrefutable evidence, then I take all claims to the contrary with a pinch of salt.

Even so, reaching the speed to break the record is one thing and, yes, I also accept that records are always being broken. That is the very nature of records. It wasn't long ago that Roger Bannister broke the record for the 4 minute mile. These days, though, most leading athletes would leave him standing. The point is, though, that at the time that was recorded as being the best. That was officially verified, therefore it happened. I don't need to know anything about running to know that much, just as with horses I don't need to know anything about them to know that the fastest recorded speed is the 43mph, yet you make claims that a TYPICAL canter (not even a full gallop) is about 45. Surely even you can see the logic here?

As for owners & trainers not giving a toss about records - that is nonsense. Records earn prestige & increase value in any commodity. Horses are no different.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:11 pm

The GBOR can only recorded a record If the record breaker contacts them.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:04 am

Oscar Namechange;1468865 wrote: The GBOR can only recorded a record If the record breaker contacts them.
So all those Cheetahs contacted the Guinness Book of Records did they?

Wrong. The Guinness Book of Records is made up of all sorts of verified records from a multitude of sources. With racing having such a wide following, more often than not, being televised, there is no shortage of potential documentation.

Once something is seen, recorded & independantly verified it qualifies to be entered as a record.

The fastest racehorse over 5 furlongs (0.625 miles) is Stone of Folca (UK, b. 6 May 2008) ridden by Luke Morris and trained by John Best (both UK) who won the Epsom Dash in a time of 53.69 secs at the Epsom Downs Racecourse, Surrey, UK on the 2 June 2012.

Stone of Folca had a starting price of 50/1 - this is the fastest time ever recorded in Britain since electronic timing began. Stone of Folca broke the previous record of Spark chief on 30 August 1983 by just 0.01 secs.

GBoR
This equates to an average speed of 41.425 - a far cry from your typical 'cruising canter'.

So, are you saying all these trainers contacted the Guinness Book of Records to record this? Of course they didn't. Such events are open to public scrutiny & are immediately verifiable. They can, therefore, be entered into the Guinness Book of Records as being the fastest.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Dec 06, 2014 9:07 am

Let's end this here... I have seen horses reach cruising speeds of 45 MPH... Admittedly they are few and far between but you haven't. Sometimes, life experience outweighs what Is recorded.

EG... If Spot/Tyr/FG writes a post on computers, I would not dream of arguing the toss with him simply because I bow to his greater knowledge. That Is his forte In life that I know nothing about yet I actually respect the life knowledge he has acquired. Equally, my forte In life, Is horse racing.

When you were arguing the toss the other night, I put a post on Facebook asking what horse would have had the fastest cruising speed and what speed. Right away, a race horse owner came In with, Frankel 40 to 45 MPH...That Is an expert on the subject. That one post Is good enough for me so you can argue all you like. You are trying to be a smart arsse In a subject you know absolutely nothing about.

When you reach a point In life where you have watched as many horses on the gallops unhandicapped as I have, then come back and pretend you know what you are talking about.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Sat Dec 06, 2014 9:45 am

What you say you have seen is not recorded evidence. It's as simple as that. It's hearsay.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Dec 06, 2014 9:50 am

FourPart;1468924 wrote: What you say you have seen is not recorded evidence. It's as simple as that. It's hearsay.

Derrrrrrrrrrr

A horse on the gallops, on firm ground, unhandicapped, clocks 45 MPH.... His trainer doesn't bother Informing the GBOR .... Derrrrrrr

There's a book entitled ' The top ten largest spiders'.... a tribesman In the rain forest of Papua New Guinea finds one he's never seen before the size of of a dustbin lid.... He never Informs the GBOR..... Comprende ?

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Sat Dec 06, 2014 9:53 am

Oscar Namechange;1468926 wrote: Derrrrrrrrrrr

A horse on the gallops, on firm ground, unhandicapped, clocks 45 MPH.... His trainer doesn't bother Informing the GBOR .... Derrrrrrr

There's a book entitled ' The top ten largest spiders'.... a tribesman In the rain forest of Papua New Guinea finds one he's never seen before the size of of a dustbin lid.... He never Informs the GBOR..... Comprende ?
Derrr... I've done over 250mph on my moped over a 10 mile average, but I've never informed the GBOR. Comprende?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:00 am

FourPart;1468928 wrote: Derrr... I've done over 250mph on my moped over a 10 mile average, but I've never informed the GBOR. Comprende?

Exactly... you have just proved the very point you have been arguing for days. Still, we got there In the end eh?

Post by **LarsMac** » Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:07 am

All of this over a minor exaggeration by Oscar.

I am sure that a race horse can hit a top speed around 45 mph, but it was her "cruising speed" that was a bit over the top. I have seen a horse hit 44.2 mph in a quarter mile, but to sustain that speed for any where near a mile is probably out of the question. The top recorded speed over a race track distance is more like 37-38 mph.

Thoroughbred horses are sprinters. They can go very fast for relatively short durations. I would doubt an effective cruising speed of over 15 mph for any significant distance.

On the other hand, it is that sprint where the majority of injuries to jockeys and horses usually occur. (The original point of the statement.)

Heck, I broke an arm, falling off a horse at significantly lower speed than Oscar's 45 mph. (In fact, the horse was not moving, at all.)

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:36 am

LarsMac;1468932 wrote: All of this over a minor exaggeration by Oscar.

I am sure that a race horse can hit a top speed around 45 mph, but it was her "cruising speed" that was a bit over the top. I have seen a horse hit 44.2 mph in a quarter mile, but to sustain that speed for any where near a mile is probably out of the question. The top recorded speed over a race track distance is more like 37-38 mph.

Thoroughbred horses are sprinters. They can go very fast for relatively short durations. I would doubt an effective cruising speed of over 15 mph for any significant distance.

On the other hand, it is that sprint where the majority of injuries to jockeys and horses usually occur. (The original point of the statement.)

Heck, I broke an arm, falling off a horse at significantly lower speed than Oscar's 45 mph. (In fact, the horse was not moving, at all.)

Au contraire mon petit vipere :wah:

I take It you are aware that America has allegedly the fastest horse In the world ?

"American Quarter Horses are the fastest horses in the world, and among the fastest of all animals. Able to run at speeds up to 55 mph, they can travel a quarter mile in less than 21 seconds, starting from a flat-footed standstill."

All About the Racing American Quarter Horse – America’s Horse Daily

As for jockey's getting Injured... I;ve seen a jockey knocked out without even leaving the starting gate... Horse reared up Inside the stall and knocked him clean out.

1967

This race went down In history... they even named the fence after the horse from there on.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:45 am

Here we go again. Let's get Da Beasty revved up. Maybe I can take it up to 260mph this time.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:51 am

I was but yards away from this at Cheltenham In March this year... Port Melon

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Dec 06, 2014 11:31 am

My cat has been rushing Into rooms randomly all day. About ten minutes ago, he came rushing In, leapt on the dining table.... a polished dining table... slid the entire length before landing In a heap on the tiled floor. Giving me an evils, he saunters away... However, I estimate his top cruising speed on the table In excess of 50 MPH

I won't be Informing the GBOR

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Sat Dec 06, 2014 11:40 am

Oscar Namechange;1468940 wrote: However, I estimate his top cruising speed on the table In excess of 50 MPH

If I were you......I would keep quiet about it........people might doubt your grip on reality and question everything you say in future.........just saying.

Post by **LarsMac** » Sat Dec 06, 2014 11:40 am

Oscar Namechange;1468934 wrote: Au contraire mon petit vipere :wah:

I take It you are aware that America has allegedly the fastest horse In the world ?

"American Quarter Horses are the fastest horses in the world, and among the fastest of all animals. Able to run at speeds up to 55 mph, they can travel a quarter mile in less than 21 seconds, starting from a flat-footed standstill."

All About the Racing American Quarter Horse – America’s Horse Daily

As for jockey's getting Injured... I;ve seen a jockey knocked out without even leaving the starting gate... Horse reared up Inside the stall and knocked him clean out.

1967

This race went down In history... they even named the fence after the horse from there on.

Yeah, I've heard of Quarter Horses running that fast, but I can only attest to what I have seen first hand. And even then, we are still talking quarter-mile sprints. "Cruising speed" implies a bit of distance, and is much slower.

BTW: Check this page