Apple's Broken Promises

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 9:02 am

Did anyone see the Panorama Exposé on Apple?

I watched it on the BBC iPlayer last night & although it was horrific, nothing about Apple really surprises me. It showed the near slave labour it uses in its factories in China, making people work 16 hours a day, sleeping 12 to a room, resulting in their falling asleep at the machines. Then there were the tin mines, which they use as the basis for the solder on their electrics, where children are used to cause landslides by spraying jets of water at them so as to get at the ore. This results in them frequently getting buried alive in the ensuing mud slides.

Apple, of course, deny any of it, stating that they have the best record of Human Rights for their workers of any other company. Panorama provides proof to the contrary.

Those of you who are able to view programs on the BBC iPlayer watch it for yourselves, then consider the morals & lives lost that go to make your latest model of iPhone / iPad / iPlayer.

BBC One - Panorama

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:18 pm

FourPart;1469752 wrote: Did anyone see the Panorama Exposé on Apple?

I watched it on the BBC iPlayer last night & although it was horrific, nothing about Apple really surprises me. It showed the near slave labour it uses in its factories in China, making people work 16 hours a day, sleeping 12 to a room, resulting in their falling asleep at the machines. Then there were the tin mines, which they use as the basis for the solder on their electrics, where children are used to cause landslides by spraying jets of water at them so as to get at the ore. This results in them frequently getting buried alive in the ensuing mud slides.

Apple, of course, deny any of it, stating that they have the best record of Human Rights for their workers of any other company. Panorama provides proof to the contrary.

Those of you who are able to view programs on the BBC iPlayer watch it for yourselves, then consider the morals & lives lost that go to make your latest model of iPhone / iPad / iPlayer.

BBC One - Panorama

The one thing that worried me about that program is that it only showed Apple - what are conditions in at comparable factories and mines?

It could well be that Apples facilities are way better than the norm and that they are making big strides to improve an impossible situation - without the comparison we'll never know.

Was this objective reporting or a big brand witch-hunt - without the comparison it's impossible to tell.

Wandrin · Post by **Wandrin** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 5:51 pm

I'm trying to think of a single computer mfr who does not use similar practices and I can not. Even those who claim that their computers are made in the US use motherboards made in China from chips made in Malaysia or Indonesia.

The BBC report was rather one sided since it singled out a single mfr, rather than showing that all mfrs fall into the same boat.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Sun Dec 21, 2014 2:08 am

I am not exactly sure what it might prove - but they're not breaking any law. Perhaps that is where the focus ought to be.

Post by **LarsMac** » Sun Dec 21, 2014 6:57 am

High Threshold;1469780 wrote: I am not exactly sure what it might prove - but they're not breaking any law. Perhaps that is where the focus ought to be.

Just because They are not breaking current law does not mean they are in the right.

But they are not alone, either.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:58 am

LarsMac;1469789 wrote: Just because They are not breaking current law does not mean they are in the right.

But they are not alone, either.

In the eyes of the law they ARE right. There's more than one aspect at stake. The WHOLE family needing to have an income to support the family is one of them. Then there is CAPITALISM. If China allows "all of above" (and I am your business competitor) then I will bury you if you do not exploit the possibilities.

RIGHT and WRONG are relative notions. It's like I said, the law ought to be in focus, not western businesses that take advantage of them. Our economy isn't dependant so much upon “right and wrong as much as it is dependant upon corporate margins and consumer prices. Only when the loopholes are plugged can we afford to allow our morals dictate.

Post by **LarsMac** » Sun Dec 21, 2014 9:00 am

To be specific, it is not Apple who employs these people. Apple - as does most of their competition - merely contracts with a company in China to make the product for them, at a specified unit price.

How the company accomplishes the task is of little concern to Apple, or Samsung, or Dell, etc.

So, as long as Foxconn, or some other company is obeying the law in China, you do not care how your Apple iPad is made? Or your Saab, or Toyota, or Dell?

If Sweden then made it legal to beat your wife, would you then happily take to doing so? Would you be OK with your son-in-law beating your daughter?

Exploiting children is OK with you, as long as it's done in a country where there are no laws against it?

Much evil is done in the world while being entirely within the law.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Sun Dec 21, 2014 9:24 am

LarsMac;1469807 wrote: To be specific, it is not Apple who employs these people. Apple - as does most of their competition - merely contracts with a company in China to make the product for them, at a specified unit price.

How the company accomplishes the task is of little concern to Apple, or Samsung, or Dell, etc.

So, as long as Foxconn, or some other company is obeying the law in China, you do not care how your Apple iPad is made? Or your Saab, or Toyota, or Dell?

What I care has nothing to do with it.

LarsMac;1469807 wrote: If Sweden then made it legal to beat your wife, would you then happily take to doing so?

It would depend upon how naughty she is.

LarsMac;1469807 wrote: Exploiting children is OK with you, as long as it's done in a country where there are no laws against it?

What in hell are you talking about?

LarsMac;1469807 wrote: Much evil is done in the world while being entirely within the law.

Hold on! Choose your own point of debate. That one is mine.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Sun Dec 21, 2014 9:31 am

Much of the program focused on how the tin mines they were using were illegal, even by Chinese law.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Sun Dec 21, 2014 1:13 pm

LarsMac;1469807 wrote: To be specific, it is not Apple who employs these people. Apple - as does most of their competition - merely contracts with a company in China to make the product for them, at a specified unit price.

How the company accomplishes the task is of little concern to Apple, or Samsung, or Dell, etc.

So, as long as Foxconn, or some other company is obeying the law in China, you do not care how your Apple iPad is made? Or your Saab, or Toyota, or Dell?

If Sweden then made it legal to beat your wife, would you then happily take to doing so? Would you be OK with your son-in-law beating your daughter?

Exploiting children is OK with you, as long as it's done in a country where there are no laws against it?

Much evil is done in the world while being entirely within the law.

Apart from the fact that Apple have specifically claimed that their parts are made ethically and published a code of conduct that their contractors are supposed to work to.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Sun Dec 21, 2014 10:01 pm

FourPart;1469810 wrote: Much of the program focused on how the tin mines they were using were illegal, even by Chinese law.

Yet legal for western companies to employ their services.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 1:57 am

High Threshold;1469849 wrote: Yet legal for western companies to employ their services.
One has to wonder if it is legal as far as Fraudulent Advertising is concerned. Much of their promotion is based on their commitment to humanitarianism & fair trade etc., when when it seems the opposite is true.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:23 am

FourPart;1469852 wrote: One has to wonder if it is legal as far as Fraudulent Advertising is concerned. Much of their promotion is based on their commitment to humanitarianism & fair trade etc., when when it seems the opposite is true.

I am of the impression that fraudulent advertising applies strictly to product function. Supportive claims as to product popularity (and such) have been a load of legally-acceptable cods-wallop since ... since .... a long, long time.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 6:38 am

The only reason that any company chooses to manufacture in China or any third world country is to drive down production costs.

The only way they can maintain decent working conditions is to build and staff their own factories, otherwise they are kidding us and themselves that they care.

I believe they are hiding behind stated good intentions while knowing the truth, to keep profits high.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 7:21 am

Bruv;1469866 wrote: The only reason that any company chooses to manufacture in China or any third world country is to drive down production costs.

The only way they can maintain decent working conditions is to build and staff their own factories, otherwise they are kidding us and themselves that they care.

I believe they are hiding behind stated good intentions while knowing the truth, to keep profits high.

I am in complete agreement. Passing on the good-fortune of lower production costs to the consumer might not even be discernible.

Post by **LarsMac** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:09 am

High Threshold;1469808 wrote: What I care has nothing to do with it.

It would depend upon how naughty she is.

What in hell are you talking about?

Hold on! Choose your own point of debate. That one is mine.

Don't take it personal. I was just having a rant.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:15 am

LarsMac;1469877 wrote: Don't take it personal. I was just having a rant.

That's a relief.