I think it is definitely time to warm up relations with Cuba.
It's been a long time since all of the animosity started and it is past time it ended and everyone starts acting like adults.
What I'm NOT sure about is how this move will affect the Cuban American vote. Who will end up benefiting politically from this move - those in favor or those opposed?
I expressly forbid the use of any of my posts anywhere outside of FG (with the exception of the incredibly witty 'get a room already' )posted recently.
Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6
The whole Johnny Red fiasco between Cuba & America has been an outdated impasse of stubborn schoolboys from the very start, and is well overdue for someone to have had the presence of mind to call an end to it.
Snowfire;1472867 wrote: Perhaps now Cuba can get engines and parts for all those 50's American cars they have on their roads
Also a lot of money to boot. I saw the following on ABC News: about 1/2 way in.
Seems the cars are worth about $50-60 thousand for collectors, & if they run well, even more. It could make the owners RICH, but how would they get around? And would their gov't take most of the money?
There was a second interview done by David Muir, ABC, on the subject. Please look it up, I'm too lazy!!
Snowfire;1472867 wrote: Perhaps now Cuba can get engines and parts for all those 50's American cars they have on their roads
It says a lot for the quality of the cars in those days that they're still running. I doubt many modern motors will be in one piece in another 60 odd years.
FourPart;1472874 wrote: It says a lot for the quality of the cars in those days that they're still running. I doubt many modern motors will be in one piece in another 60 odd years.
Many of them are missing their original engines and run on any motor they can fit and make work, which says a lot for the ingenuity of the Cubans
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Now, Illinois is big on agriculture and the conversations locally appear to be generally hopeful of good things to come for everyone.
I just worry that a lot of Cubans may envision the US as a land of OZ and that the reality will not be nearly so pretty.
I expressly forbid the use of any of my posts anywhere outside of FG (with the exception of the incredibly witty 'get a room already' )posted recently.
Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6
It's hell getting old...lol I looked right past it!
I expressly forbid the use of any of my posts anywhere outside of FG (with the exception of the incredibly witty 'get a room already' )posted recently.
Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6
I suspect the US is "normalizing relations" so it can get an Embassy up and running, to feed money to any Cuban prepared to call himself The Opposition. It's called subversion and were I influential in Cuba I'd say bugger off, we're fine as we are thank you. It's not as though the sanctions are going to be lifted in any meaningful sense. Lots of US tourists will be able to visit? That's meant to somehow culturally improve the cultural capital of Central America? I think not.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
spot;1472891 wrote: I suspect the US is "normalizing relations" so it can get an Embassy up and running, to feed money to any Cuban prepared to call himself The Opposition. It's called subversion and were I influential in Cuba I'd say bugger off, we're fine as we are thank you. It's not as though the sanctions are going to be lifted in any meaningful sense. Lots of US tourists will be able to visit? That's meant to somehow culturally improve the cultural capital of Central America? I think not.
I'll repeat my conviction that one day Elian Gonzalez will rule Cuba. Cuba won't say bugger off, as they have always wanted relations to us and our denying them aid is what led them to the Soviet Union in the first place. So far, there are no plans for American tourists, but the folks already in allowable categories will have more freedoms, & relatives will be able to visit, which is important. The Castros are very old now & someone else would take over soon enough anyway. I hope they remain socialist, but become more democratic & less inclined to jail dissidents. The Revolution was Fidel Castro and the people born since should have a say in the life they want. Both Thomas Jefferson & Mao said a revolution every generation was a good idea, not that anyone actually sees that through, but the thought being that a status quo continuously was regressive.
I expect your intelligence circles have a half dozen Batistas lined up to fly in at a moment's notice, once US-financed riots hit the streets of Havana. Rather like Iran and the Shah.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Batista was a dictator spot. It's not the same, I hope, as in the fifties. Cuba was not a democracy, & before Fidel turned to Soviets he was much beloved by the American people..........don't forget the Cuban missile crisis, or Fidel on tape wanting to A-bomb American cities. I prefer to look ahead. Poor me! I've actually learned from past mistakes & our new Congress is the stupidist on record.
spot;1472902 wrote: I expect your intelligence circles have a half dozen Batistas lined up to fly in at a moment's notice, once US-financed riots hit the streets of Havana. Rather like Iran and the Shah.
No need to upset the apple cart. The Brothers Castro will soon fade away, and the up and coming politicos are already lining up to get on the American teat. We will have regular flight from Miami to Havana soon, and Royal Caribbean is already negotiating for Harbor rights to make Havana and a couple of more port cities part of their itinerary.
Pretty soon, tourism will explode and Cuba will look a lot like Cancun, Cozumel and Puerto Vallarta.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
AnneBoleyn;1472888 wrote: Cuba has never surrendered, as Japan & Germany have.
Did Germany really surrender, or did they just make a strategic withdrawal? They certainly seem well on the way to European Dominance at the moment.
Cuba was allied to Russia during the Cold War, which was a war in name only. None of the other Soviet States 'apologised' for their actions after the fall of the Soviet Union. Why should they? Cuba had missiles aimed at America. America had missiles aimed at Cuba. Should (or even would) America apologise for that?
FourPart;1472928 wrote: Did Germany really surrender, or did they just make a strategic withdrawal?
Good lord... Luneberg Heath. Tent. Montgomery.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
FourPart;1472874 wrote: It says a lot for the quality of the cars in those days that they're still running. I doubt many modern motors will be in one piece in another 60 odd years.
I'm guessing you are a Capitalist and anti-Socialist.
along-for-the-ride;1472886 wrote: We've mended fences with Japan and Germany. Why not Cuba?
Because Japan and Germany were the BAD GUYS and the U.S. beat them into submission, whereas Cuba is the GOOD GUY and the U.S. hasn't been able to admit it was wrong .... plus the fact that the U.S. hasn't managed to break the Cubans - although that might be because the rest of the world enjoys good diplomatic and tourist relations with Cuba thus helping to keep it afloat. In short, the U.S. cannot gloat over Cuba as it can (AND DOES!!!!!!!!) over Germany and Japan.
AnneBoleyn;1472907 wrote: But, AFTR, Cuba was never apologetic.
Didn't this all start with the failed Bay of Pigs invasion?
I expressly forbid the use of any of my posts anywhere outside of FG (with the exception of the incredibly witty 'get a room already' )posted recently.
Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6
LarsMac;1472920 wrote: No need to upset the apple cart. The Brothers Castro will soon fade away, and the up and coming politicos are already lining up to get on the American teat. We will have regular flight from Miami to Havana soon, and Royal Caribbean is already negotiating for Harbor rights to make Havana and a couple of more port cities part of their itinerary.
Pretty soon, tourism will explode and Cuba will look a lot like Cancun, Cozumel and Puerto Vallarta.
Cuba's tourism is ALREADY fluent ..... just that the U.S. isn't part of it.
LarsMac;1472920 wrote: No need to upset the apple cart. The Brothers Castro will soon fade away, and the up and coming politicos are already lining up to get on the American teat. We will have regular flight from Miami to Havana soon, and Royal Caribbean is already negotiating for Harbor rights to make Havana and a couple of more port cities part of their itinerary.
Pretty soon, tourism will explode and Cuba will look a lot like Cancun, Cozumel and Puerto Vallarta.Is there a Latin version of American Woman?
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,
High Threshold;1472953 wrote: Because Japan and Germany were the BAD GUYS
It's generally considered polite to regard Germany as the victim of Nazism - to speak of, for example, Nazi concentration camps rather than German concentration camps. Tales of the Hun raping Belgian nuns have tended to rebound badly on the propagandists but few people would disagree with "bad guys" when it comes to Nationalism itself.
As for Japan being the Bad Guys, it depends very much on where you focus. A narrow spotlight on the treatment of prisoners, for example, leaves no doubt it can be applied (though worse was inflicted on Confederate conscripts and volunteers after the American Civil War, for example). The Japanese, unlike the Nazis, were not gangsters. They gambled that the US wouldn't be arsed to go after them without air control of the Pacific, and then failed to achieve their opening gambit. And the Japanese as a whole, like the Nazis (though possibly not all Germans), thought they were superior to lesser nations.
Perhaps if we label any country which behaves as though it's superior to lesser nations as The Bad Guy we might have learned something from the 20th century after all. National Superiority is invariably an ugly attribute.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
spot;1472959 wrote: It's generally considered polite to regard Germany as the victim of Nazism - to speak of, for example, Nazi concentration camps rather than German concentration camps. Tales of the Hun raping Belgian nuns have tended to rebound badly on the propagandists but few people would disagree with "bad guys" when it comes to Nationalism itself.
As for Japan being the Bad Guys, it depends very much on where you focus. A narrow spotlight on the treatment of prisoners, for example, leaves no doubt it can be applied (though worse was inflicted on Confederate conscripts and volunteers after the American Civil War, for example). The Japanese, unlike the Nazis, were not gangsters. They gambled that the US wouldn't be arsed to go after them without air control of the Pacific, and then failed to achieve their opening gambit. And the Japanese as a whole, like the Nazis (though possibly not all Germans), thought they were superior to lesser nations.
Perhaps if we label any country which behaves as though it's superior to lesser nations as The Bad Guy we might have learned something from the 20th century after all. National Superiority is invariably an ugly attribute.
It was along-for-the-ride who introduced the "Germany - Japan - Cuba" parameters as they pertain to the U.S., not I. I can only debate the subject upon the table of discussion.
YZGI;1472982 wrote: Guantanamo is a part of Cuba even if it is leased land (which according to Wikipedia) Cuba has not accepted payment since the revolution.
Would we lease land to Iran and allow them to have a base here?
We would allow that to NO ONE! & by Guantanamo being separate, there is no mingling of any sort. How long is the lease, btw?
gmc;1472976 wrote: Be interesting to see if the big sugar companies try and get compensation or the land back.
Yes. My guess is that Cuba will re-issue the sugar & tobacco plantations, the gambling clubs, and the bordells back to the American Mafia as soon as the U.S. give Texas back to Mexico and New York back to the Indians. Any day now, I should think.
LarsMac;1472990 wrote: It is nothing like it will be with the big tour boats coming in every other day from Ft Lauderdale and Tampa.
Cuba could quickly replace Cancun and Jamaica, and maybe even Georgetown for a lot of the Cruise tours.
I plan on going this summer, before the tide comes in.
I realize you're talking about American passengers but I think the Caribe ..... Florida, Cuba, Jamaica, etc. is already operating for European passengers. Not sure, but I think there are those sailing Norwegian registration and such. But yes, American tourists would certainly flock to Cuba given the chance, perhaps doubling the tourist trade or even more. They all want to sample the rum, the cigars, and gawk at the 1950's Yankee taxis. And then ....... there's Salsa!!! :guitarist
YZGI;1472985 wrote: Near as I can tell forever. Per the Platt Amendment signed by Cuba in 1903.
Platt Amendment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
All it cost you was blowing up the Maine in Havana harbour, too. As a means of forcing an unwanted war on Spain it was very effective.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
spot;1473003 wrote: All it cost you was blowing up the Maine in Havana harbour, too. As a means of forcing an unwanted war on Spain it was very effective.
Naw, We didn't do it. Some idiots were smoking in the powder room.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
LarsMac;1473027 wrote: Naw, We didn't do it. Some idiots were smoking in the powder room.
It never crossed my mind that you might have done it deliberately, though I note some have wondered over the years. Taking advantage of a fortuitous accident is still a bit opportunist. It certainly wasn't an act of war on the part of the Spanish.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
High Threshold;1472951 wrote: I'm guessing you are a Capitalist and anti-Socialist.
The two aren't mutually exclusive the ideal is capitalist economy combined with socialist welfare policies. Don't they teach yiou guys anything in school you seem to think socialism and communism are synonymous.
gmc;1473119 wrote: The two aren't mutually exclusive the ideal is capitalist economy combined with socialist welfare policies.
I was referring specifically to FP's praise of American (capitalist) “cars in those days with no praise of Cuban (Communist) ingenuity and mechanical genius to keep those cars of the 50's still purring like kittens.
gmc;1473119 wrote: Don't they teach yiou guys anything in school you seem to think socialism and communism are synonymous.
Pardon me? I am from a traditionally forward stepping Socialist-Democratic nation. What do you think? I'm guessing I know the difference between the two ..... better than most.
