Thomas Paine

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Sat Apr 18, 2015 9:48 am

I just finished re reading some of his works and though he was born a Englishman he was a true American Hero and was right on with his comments re: religion.

Post by **spot** » Sat Apr 18, 2015 10:25 am

"though he was born a Englishman" is a little harsh, so were most Americans of European descent when he was writing - he was forty when your Revolution started. Besides being a Founding Father of the United States, he was also a member of the National Convention during the French Revolution. His books deserve to still be in print.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sat Apr 18, 2015 2:24 pm

Those comments on religion caused him a lot of trouble and and his place as a founding father written out of american history. After his death his epitaph in the new york papers was: " He had lived long, did some good and much harm". Nowadays he would be pilloried as a communist and a liberal with his supposed atheism damning him as well. In fact is it not the case "common sense" is banned in many of the states as well as the rights of man (no pun intended)?

It's not his fault he was born an englishman you were born american but nobody here holds that against you or blames you for that - it was an accident of birth just bad luck.:sneaky:

For my own part I am re-reading Mein Kampf having been given a copy by a neighbour. Thinking of sending it to nigel farage as he could do with a few tips.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 7:41 am

In fact is it not the case "common sense" is banned in many of the states as well as the rights of man (no pun intended)?

No, gmc, we do not ban books. Some school libraries might, I don't know, but the answer to your question is an emphatic 'NO!'

Post by **spot** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 7:47 am

AnneBoleyn;1477872 wrote: In fact is it not the case "common sense" is banned in many of the states as well as the rights of man (no pun intended)?

No, gmc, we do not ban books. Some school libraries might, I don't know, but the answer to your question is an emphatic 'NO!'

The lad's just behind the times, if you're right about the ban being lifted these days. Regarding "Common Sense" in particular, I note thatYou would think such a work would be a celebrated part of American history and discussed in classrooms across the nation, but the truth is it was removed from public school libraries in 1946, and the U.S. State Department banned Paineâ€™s works from Information Service Libraries in 1953.

Banned Books Awareness: Thomas Paine | Banned Books Awareness

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 12:37 pm

I read it in school. Tom Paine was taught as an heroic figure. In school. I've never heard of this article, & I question it's veracity, unless you consider the following picture as truth, which most New Yorkers believe:

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 12:48 pm

I suppose in 1946 it would have seemed to be communist in it's outlook even now the notion that all are of equal value and huiman rights are just that and not privileges freaks out a lot of people.

Actually the next book in that link is quite startling.

Banned Books Awareness: Thomas Jefferson | Banned Books Awareness

Among the list of proposed changes by the Texas Board:

â€“ America is a Christian country, founded on â€œBiblical principles.â€

â€“ Conservative icons like Ronald Reagan, Newt Gingrich, Sen. Joseph McCarthy, Phyllis Schlafly, and the â€œMoral Majorityâ€ are historyâ€™s heroes, but progressives and progressive values are â€œat odds with what it means to be American.â€

â€“ Words like â€œdemocracyâ€ have nothing to do with America and moved to replace it with â€œconstitutional republicâ€ throughout texts; also, â€œcapitalismâ€ has a negative connotation to some, so it is to be replaced with â€œfree-enterprise system.â€

Crikey I suppose the religious right aren't really the laughing- stock I thought they were.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 12:51 pm

The time period you mention spot goes down in history as "McCarthyism" & I don't mean Eugene. It was also the time, under Eisenhower, when "one god" was added to our Pledge of Allegiance. A disgusting time, indeed.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 12:54 pm

gmc, the election madness for November 2016 has already begun here & I don't know if I can survive it this time unless I stay completely away from politics & only watch nature shows & cartoons.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 2:22 pm

AnneBoleyn;1477886 wrote: gmc, the election madness for November 2016 has already begun here & I don't know if I can survive it this time unless I stay completely away from politics & only watch nature shows & cartoons.

Do what it takes girl.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 3:23 pm

Didn't America try to ban Origin Of The Species, by Charles Darwin?

Post by **spot** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 3:39 pm

FourPart;1477904 wrote: Didn't America try to ban Origin Of The Species, by Charles Darwin?

Not that I'm aware. The only places on earth that I can find On the Origin of Species banned are Yugoslavia in 1935, Greece in 1937 and the library of Trinity College, Cambridge.

Bannings and Burnings in History

ZAP · Post by **ZAP** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 4:18 pm

spot;1477906 wrote: Not that I'm aware. The only places on earth that I can find On the Origin of Species banned are Yugoslavia in 1935, Greece in 1937 and the library of Trinity College, Cambridge.

Bannings and Burnings in History

There seems to be a misconception about the banning of the book. It looks as if Tennessee did ban the teaching of Darwin's theory. It also looks as if some institutions are still trying to ban the book.

Banned from Trinity College, Cambridge, England in 1859. In 1925 the state of Tennessee passed a law prohibiting teachers from teaching the theory of evolution in state supported schools. Banned in Yugoslavia in 1935. Banned in Greece in 1937. In the 1980s both Louisiana and Arkansas boards of education required the teaching of creationism along with evolution.

The US Supreme Court ruled this requirement was unconstitutional

While I was researching it I discovered that haggis is banned in the U.S.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryankincaid/ban ... .cbdBoGQ1w

Post by **spot** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 4:31 pm

Haggis should be banned everywhere, it's unfair to sheep.

Making it illegal to teach something doesn't mean the textbook is banned.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 4:50 pm

There are still US schools that ban it.

West Virginia School Board Bans Darwinâ€™s Origin of Species and Curious George | The Pennsylvania Punch Bowl

ZAP · Post by **ZAP** » Sun Apr 19, 2015 6:07 pm

spot;1477909 wrote: Haggis should be banned everywhere, it's unfair to sheep.

Does that mean we should ban lamb chops too? lol

"Making it illegal to teach something doesn't mean the textbook is banned.

Most of the reliable sources I could find said that the book wasn't banned in the U.S. but a lot of people have that misconception. Here's a video I saw. But her viewpoint about banning something is a good one in my opinion.

Post by **spot** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:37 am

There's a large difference between a legislative ban with legal sanctions and a voluntary refusal to stock something.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 3:20 am

spot;1477921 wrote: There's a large difference between a legislative ban with legal sanctions and a voluntary refusal to stock something.

Making it illegal to teach something doesn't mean the textbook is banned.

You're splitting hairs, if a school librarian or any librarian follows an instruction not to stock a book for fear of losing their jobs then the book is effectively banned.

In Uk schools they are also trying to get creationism taught alongside as an reasonable alternative to the theory of evolution. It's one of the problems with privately controlled academies that tony blair brought in they get away with it and when insopector intervenev you get all the religiouis groups getting toi ngether to cry discrimination.

Haggis should be banned everywhere, it's unfair to sheep.

culinary philistine. May you boak on your black pudding

posted by anne boleyn

gmc, the election madness for November 2016 has already begun here & I don't know if I can survive it this time unless I stay completely away from politics & only watch nature shows & cartoons.

The UK one is in may. Should be interesting the establishment are shitting themselves as it looks as if the peasants are revolting.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 7:50 am

ZAP;1477908 wrote: While I was researching it I discovered that haggis is banned in the U.S.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryankincaid/ban ... .cbdBoGQ1w

It was banned because of potential BSE problems, but the ban has been lifted.

US to lift 21-year ban on haggis | Life and style | The Guardian

Post by **spot** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:13 am

That'll be what they call Mad Coo Disease up there, north of the border.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:05 am

spot;1477928 wrote: That'll be what they call Mad Coo Disease up there, north of the border.

Naw we call it thatcherism.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:08 am

gmc;1477930 wrote: Naw we call it thatcherism.

Boom boom

ZAP · Post by **ZAP** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:46 am

FourPart;1477927 wrote: It was banned because of potential BSE problems, but the ban has been lifted.

US to lift 21-year ban on haggis | Life and style | The Guardian

to quote from the article "Some refined foodies might insist it always has been and always will be: in the words of Robert Burns, in his Ode to a Haggis, looking "down wi' sneering, scornfu' view on sic a dinner". But now, as millions of Scots around the world prepare to celebrate Burns's legacy tonight with an elaborate, whisky-fuelled pageant to a boiled bag of sheep innards, oatmeal, suet and pepper, its reputation has been restored, on health grounds at least.

For the past two decades, Americans of Scottish descent ‑ of whom there are at least 6 million ‑ have been forced to celebrate Burns' night without a true haggis, much to their distress."

They really should do something to improve that image of haggis and the atrocious bag in which it resides.

I wonder if the U.S. has a parade to celebrate the return of The Haggis?

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:01 pm

ZAP;1477936 wrote: They really should do something to improve that image of haggis and the atrocious bag in which it resides.

Hey........what about the image of McDonalds ?

America.......I believe banned Kinder Eggs...............you couldn't make it up.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:36 pm

Bruv;1477937 wrote: Hey........what about the image of McDonalds ?

America.......I believe banned Kinder Eggs...............you couldn't make it up.

It seems that ban's being (kinda) lifted as well...

US Ban on Kinder Surprise Eggs Finally Lifted (Kinda)

I find it interesting that the ban was in place long before Kinder Eggs were even invented.

Post by **spot** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:39 pm

I am unacquainted with these eggs of which you write. I must enquire when next I see a consumer of such commodities.

ZAP · Post by **ZAP** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:53 pm

I was not familiar with these items of confection and strangulation so I Googled it. It looks like Canada tried to smuggle them in, kinda.

Kinder Surprise - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 2:00 pm

spot;1477941 wrote: I am unacquainted with these eggs of which you write. I must enquire when next I see a consumer of such commodities.
You often see them in little vending machines outside shops.

Post by **spot** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 2:07 pm

FourPart;1477944 wrote: You often see them in little vending machines outside shops.

Ah. Cigarettes.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 3:32 pm

spot;1477945 wrote: Ah. Cigarettes.

You DO live in a world of your own.