Bit of an over-reaction?

Post by **Betty Boop** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 1:28 am

Boys, aged 10 and 11, found in Manchester McDonald's at 2am after sneaking out of a sleepover for a burger | Home News | News | The Independent

Would you have called the police?

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 4:51 am

Possibly. What would you have done, BB?

Snowfire · Post by **Snowfire** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 5:43 am

I think I would have done. Not to say we haven't all had our little episodes at that age but I think its the most sensible response and no harm's done.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 6:25 am

Of course I would have done,what half decent reason could a pair of boys that age have roaming the streets in the early hours ?

Post by **LarsMac** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 11:42 am

When I was that age, I roamed about at will. On the other hand, we lived in a fairly rural area at the time.

Isn't 10 a bit old for onesies?

I don't know that I would have called the cops. I can see where a mother might.

Snowfire · Post by **Snowfire** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:59 pm

LarsMac;1488633 wrote:

Isn't 10 a bit old for onesies?

Good grief. It's very nearly become our National dress. Thank goodness they don't make them big enough for me, otherwise my grandkids would insist I wear one on our camping trips

Post by **Betty Boop** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 1:09 pm

Ahso!;1488618 wrote: Possibly. What would you have done, BB?

I wouldn't have called the police. I would have asked if either had a phone on them and explained that considering it was 2am they really ought to call a responsible adult to at least let them know they were safe. Then I would have let them buy their McDonald's and walked them back.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 2:01 pm

Betty Boop;1488639 wrote: I wouldn't have called the police. I would have asked if either had a phone on them and explained that considering it was 2am they really ought to call a responsible adult to at least let them know they were safe. Then I would have let them buy their McDonald's and walked them back.

Thinking about it, most likely I would have talked to them first. See where it goes from there. That said, at some point I would eventually call the police.

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 3:01 pm

NO

I wouldn't call the police.

I probably would've given them a ride to McD's & the ride back, with a lecture.

Pretty young for that 5 mile hike at 2 A.M. for a burger.

Patsy

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 3:40 pm

I wouldn't have called the cops. That was up to McDonald's to do that civic duty.

eta.............if something happened to those kids, MickeyDee could be sued I'll wager.

Post by **LarsMac** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 3:55 pm

AnneBoleyn;1488654 wrote: I wouldn't have called the cops. That was up to McDonald's to do that civic duty.

eta.............if something happened to those kids, MickeyDee could be sued I'll wager.

would depend on if it happened before the got there, or after they left.

Sure glad I'm not a kid, these days.

Too many people out to put a halt to an adventure, these days.

Post by **Betty Boop** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 4:05 pm

LarsMac;1488659 wrote: would depend on if it happened before the got there, or after they left.

Sure glad I'm not a kid, these days.

Too many people out to put a halt to an adventure, these days.

Indeed, and what a cool adventure it would have been if they'd got away with it :wah:

I just really think the police have more urgent things to be doing, no crime was committed by the lads.

Post by **Betty Boop** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 4:07 pm

Bruv;1488626 wrote: Of course I would have done,what half decent reason could a pair of boys that age have roaming the streets in the early hours ?

They wanted some McNuggets and an Iced Caramel Frappe I bet. What other reason do they need!

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 4:43 pm

Betty Boop;1488661 wrote: They wanted some McNuggets and an Iced Caramel Frappe I bet. What other reason do they need!

If they had spent some time having adventures in the daylight hours in fresh air instead of in their bedrooms faffing about on computer games, they would have been far too tired.

Post by **Betty Boop** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 5:13 pm

Bruv;1488668 wrote: If they had spent some time having adventures in the daylight hours in fresh air instead of in their bedrooms faffing about on computer games, they would have been far too tired.

Really?? How many sleep-overs did you have where you were all asleep by 10pm?

Half the fun is the staying awake part.

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 5:21 pm

With our sleep-overs we were always up to something & yes we were out late & would sneak back into the house.

lots of fun.

Patsy

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 8:07 pm

The first thing I would do is call the cops then stick around to protect the kids.

It is a most foolish thing to assume care of children you know nothing about.

Post by **LarsMac** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 9:10 pm

We didn't have sleep-overs. We had canoe trips up the river, or night fishing on the pier, camping on the beach, or a weekend hike in the forest.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 3:38 am

Certainly I would have called the Police. Of course McDonalds should have a Duty of Care policy, but do you really believe McDonalds to be that responsible? Put yourself in the position of the parent hosting the sleepover. She gets up to check on the boys & finds them all missing. Chances are she would be frantic. Consider how you would feel if, in the next morning, you saw / read the news about a group of 10 / 11 year olds who had sneaked out had been set upon by a known sex offender, raped, tortured & systematically murdered. You know that you were one of the last to see those boys alive. You knew at the time they shouldn't have been out, yet did nothing about it. Could you forgive yourself?

Post by **Betty Boop** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 5:16 am

FourPart;1488694 wrote: Certainly I would have called the Police. Of course McDonalds should have a Duty of Care policy, but do you really believe McDonalds to be that responsible? Put yourself in the position of the parent hosting the sleepover. She gets up to check on the boys & finds them all missing. Chances are she would be frantic. Consider how you would feel if, in the next morning, you saw / read the news about a group of 10 / 11 year olds who had sneaked out had been set upon by a known sex offender, raped, tortured & systematically murdered. You know that you were one of the last to see those boys alive. You knew at the time they shouldn't have been out, yet did nothing about it. Could you forgive yourself?

Is that over-reaction directed at me?? Where did I say I would do nothing?

My god, what a sad world we live in where every stranger, unless they are a member of the police is a danger to children.

There's a lot of us ordinary people who do the right thing all the time, shame we aren't always in newspaper having our praises sung instead of rabid headlines branding everyone a potential murderer, rapist or abuser.

G#Gill · Post by **G#Gill** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:25 pm

Unfortunately, BB, in this worsening world, if you have 10 people on the street and one is a thoroughly nasty child molester. How do you pick that one person out of the ten ? That means that all people are basically under suspicion and therefore there is need to protect a child if that child is in a vulnerable position like wandering the streets at 2 am in a onesie, even if he is with a pal ! I would think that calling the police would probably be the most sensible thing to do, after all a police officer is somebody who has become a police officer in order to protect life and property. Under the circumstances of two boys wandering the streets in the dark, wee hours of the morning, I personally would call the police, staying with the boys till the police arrived. Those young boys, nowadays, had put themselves into a very vulnerable position. 30 years ago, maybe they would not be in such a worrying position.

It's a shame, but such adventures are really not safe activities any more, are they ?

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:59 pm

It's a shame that most adventures & activities are not safe.

They weren't safe when I was a kid either.

All the possibilities were there for danger.

Most of the sleep-overs were at my house - my parents were sleeping when we'd sneak & sneak back in. A couple of times my Mom was standing at the door when we were sneaking in.

We didn't wear helmets riding a bike

We didn't wear a seatbelt either

Sure there's danger lurking - even if your shopping at a store.

Tude Dog - You must of done something crazy as a kid - siphon gas - jump a train borrow a neighbors car for a ride?

Oh, I'm talking about my sleep-overs...:yh_rotfl

Patsy

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 2:50 pm

Patsy Warnick;1488731 wrote:

Tude Dog - You must of done something crazy as a kid - siphon gas - jump a train borrow a neighbors car for a ride?

Yea, I'll share with ya all.

First of all never siphoned gas or borrowed a car.

Jump a train, yea. Lived next to tracks and one day a long train slowed and I jumped on a flatbed. It starts going faster and faster.

One story I have until now only share with one person.

Lived in a semi-rural area where a rancher had a building. It was long and narrow. Inside were cages each with a chicken. It was such that walking down the middle the rancher could easily collect eggs which he would sell.

My buddy and I decided to go and steal eggs.

I took two. I remember now what?

What am i going to do with these two eggs? Can't take them home so as I remember tossed them in the air to watch them smash.

Somebody saw that and told Mom, so now I get to wait for Dad to get home.

Dad took me to the ranch house with two quarers, one for each egg. One of the best things in my life was telling that man what I did.

Jump forward to the 1980s or so a parent with his daughter knocks on my door.

At that time we had a mess of daisies growing in our front yard. A neighbourhood girs picked some and dad pay made her me .50 cents.

I told her about the eggs.

Post by **Betty Boop** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 3:04 pm

G#Gill;1488728 wrote: Unfortunately, BB, in this worsening world, if you have 10 people on the street and one is a thoroughly nasty child molester. How do you pick that one person out of the ten ? That means that all people are basically under suspicion and therefore there is need to protect a child if that child is in a vulnerable position like wandering the streets at 2 am in a onesie, even if he is with a pal ! I would think that calling the police would probably be the most sensible thing to do, after all a police officer is somebody who has become a police officer in order to protect life and property. Under the circumstances of two boys wandering the streets in the dark, wee hours of the morning, I personally would call the police, staying with the boys till the police arrived. Those young boys, nowadays, had put themselves into a very vulnerable position. 30 years ago, maybe they would not be in such a worrying position.

It's a shame, but such adventures are really not safe activities any more, are they ?

They never were 100% safe, in my day, in Patsy's day and even back in your day.

If you want to live in a world where you think the majority is bad then I'm sad for you.

I choose to live in a world where I believe the majority of people are actually good because that's the reality. There are still more good people than rapists, murderers and abusers, it's just the bad people that make the headlines all the time that make it seem like the world is a big bad place.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:47 pm

I am warming to your way of thinking Betty..........but at the back of my mind, I am wondering who else might be about at that time of day.......ne-er do wells, possible drunks, or policemen looking for runaways, criminals etc.

And when asked, are the lads telling the truth about just popping out for a night feast. And then if it were my ten year old, would I want him gadding about town at that time of the morning?

I think I have mentioned the following that happened to me many many years ago, which obviously impressed itself on me.

Looking out my front window onto the green outside my home, I watched as several suited young men began to kick a football around with some local lads, I was very suspicious of why these young adults were running about with young boys. Almost immediately I was ashamed of myself for thinking the worse of strangers merely kicking a ball around for simple fun on a nice sunny day.Never the less I still felt the need to watch them go on their way when the kick about was finished.

I think they were Mormon missionary types, having a break from recruiting.

I still feel uneasy why I felt the need to make sure those kids were safe, but better to feel that way, and they ARE safe, than trust to the goodness of my fellow man, and they were to end up harmed in any way.

As a disclaimer No Missionaries or Children were affected in this scenario......luckily.......only me.......so you could be correct.

G#Gill · Post by **G#Gill** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 5:06 pm

BB I don't want to live in a world that I "think the majority is bad " !!!! It is a fact that there is more crime these days, particularly crime against children ! There is more violence on the streets than there ever was. I refuse to put my head in the sand and try to persuade myself that everything is all rosey, because I know that it isn't.

Yes it is sad, and I wish things would improve, but as long as the powers that be see fit to reduce funding to our police force, the situation will not get any better.

10 years ago we had a terrible time with youth gangs wandering around aimlessly at night, and I live in a residential area. They were looking for mischief, causing criminal damage, fighting among themselves, drinking alcohol and smoking 'pot'. Nobody wanted to venture out after dark.

When we first came here 26 years ago, we used to see a 'bobby' on the beat most days, just strolling along the pavement - a presence. A few years after that, it was a rarity to see a 'bobby' on foot unless he was going to a commitment, that is around the time when these youth gangs were milling around in the evening. We pushed and pushed to get more police cover in the area and eventually the police did one or two purges. The gangs moved away to an area by some shops about 3/4 mile away from us and peace reigned, and it was wonderful.

They are still causing problems as a 'new intake' of yobs takes over from the older ones who seem to get girlfriends and 'grow up'. But, fingers crossed, they are not in our immediate area any more. There are no foot patrols and the few Police Support Officers that we saw for a while, on pedal cycles, seem to have been 'removed' because of the funding cuts. We only see a patrol car when it is dashing with blues and twos to some commitment somewhere and using our residential roads as a short cut.

Yes, I'm very conscious of the increase in lawlessness, especially in the towns and city centres. No it isn't made to look worse than it is by all the reports in the papers and in the media. It isn't made to look worse, it is worse !!!!

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 8:37 pm

I wasn't intending to have a go at anyone in particular - just at the world in general. Yes it is sad that we should live in such times where we must treat everyone with suspicion. However, the really sad fact is that that is the reality of things. How often do you see the tragic stories of children coming to a really nasty end, then discovering that the person responsible was always such a nice person. No-one would ever have thought ill of him / her, because he / she was always such an upstanding pillar of society. What is even more sad is that such stories don't even get to make the news any more because they have become so commonplace that they are no longer considered newsworthy.

I don't have kids, but I can be damned sure that if I had a 10 / 11 year old & he / she was seen to be AWOL with his / her mates at 2.00 in the morning, I'd most certainly want someone to take some action to keep them safe.

We were all raised with the dire warnings of never to take sweets from strangers. As kids, we were never told why, or what the inherent dangers might have been if we were to do so. Even if we had been told, we probably wouldn't have been able to comprehend the reasoning behind it. The point being that the danger itself is nothing new. It's just that it seems to have escalated in latter years - probably due directly or indirectly in no small way to the internet & the relative ease of predators being able to interact & share tales of 'trophies'.

Wishing it wasn't like it is doesn't stop it from being the way it is.

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:24 pm

If I was the one responsible for the 2 boys sneaking out - I'd appreciate the kind/concerned person bringing them home to me safe.

Had it be police - well so be it - lesson learned to all.

Patsy

Snowfire · Post by **Snowfire** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 4:10 am

We live in a society where too many people just "walk on by " I have no idea whether that has always been the case but either way, I dont want to be one of those people if I can possibly help it.

Had I walked on by and then heard that something had happened to one or both of them, I couldn't have lived with the decision not to ensure that one way or another, they ended up safely back at home.

Would I approach young children at two in the morning ? No absolutely not. That's not appropriate. Which is why I would inform the police.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:19 am

Betty Boop;1488616 wrote: Boys, aged 10 and 11, found in Manchester McDonald's at 2am after sneaking out of a sleepover for a burger | Home News | News | The Independent

Would you have called the police?

Without a doubt - for their own safety.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:22 am

Patsy Warnick;1488645 wrote: NO

I wouldn't call the police.

I probably would've given them a ride to McD's & the ride back, with a lecture.

Pretty young for that 5 mile hike at 2 A.M. for a burger.

Patsy

Isn't that teaching them that it's safe and expected behaviour to get into a car with a stranger?

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:24 am

AnneBoleyn;1488654 wrote: I wouldn't have called the cops. That was up to McDonald's to do that civic duty.

eta.............if something happened to those kids, MickeyDee could be sued I'll wager.

The earlier the cops are called the safer the kids are - how would you have then felt if the kids did not make it to McDs.

It is *everyone's* responsibility to look out for the safety of our children!

Post by **LarsMac** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 4:31 pm

Bryn Mawr;1488800 wrote: The earlier the cops are called the safer the kids are - how would you have then felt if the kids did not make it to McDs.

It is *everyone's* responsibility to look out for the safety of our children!

I think that for me, the onesies would be the trigger. They were obviously ill-prepared for being out on the streets, at all. I probably would have notified the Police.

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:01 pm

If I was driving down the street & witnessed these 2 young boys at 2 A.M. - yes, I would've pulled over & asked the 2 why are you out etc. & where's home.

Yes, I would've grabbed them by their ear, threw them in the car & drove them home.

These two boy's know the difference from stranger danger & a concerned female asking them why - what - where etc.

I would've been lecturing them so fast - they probably wouldn't have a chance to answer.

Maybe a burger - maybe not.

Trust me - I would stop & assist - I have in the past & probably will again in the future.

Patsy

cars · Post by **cars** » Sat Nov 07, 2015 2:34 pm

Betty Boop;1488616 wrote: Boys, aged 10 and 11, found in Manchester McDonald's at 2am after sneaking out of a sleepover for a burger | Home News | News | The Independent

Would you have called the police?

Having mixed emotions on this one, but I guess I would have called the cops also. Considering the tender age of the boys involved, they definitely should not have been out and about during the wee hours as they were. Fortunately no harm came to them, as our world is not what is once was.

The sleep over "mother" in charge of those boys was extremely lucky that those boys were not harmed. Their parents left their boys in her charge for safe keeping, and as it turned out she was not diligent enough to know their whereabouts at all times. Yeah, boys will be boys, and a responsibility that an adult has to be keenly aware of!

Post by **Betty Boop** » Sat Nov 07, 2015 2:38 pm

I would like to make it clear that I wouldn't have walked on by and left them to it.

I made it clear I would have spoken to them and then made sure they got home safe.

Maybe because I am a woman I wouldn't have thought twice about approaching them.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sat Nov 07, 2015 2:58 pm

cars;1489133 wrote: Fortunately no harm came to them, as our world is not what is once was.

The world has always been dangerous, especially for children and women.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:54 pm

AnneBoleyn;1489140 wrote: The world has always been dangerous, especially for children and women.

That is why G-d created Men first.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sat Nov 07, 2015 4:16 pm

Betty Boop;1489135 wrote: I would like to make it clear that I wouldn't have walked on by and left them to it.

I made it clear I would have spoken to them and then made sure they got home safe.

Maybe because I am a woman I wouldn't have thought twice about approaching them.I thought your answer was reasonable and responsible. The only problem is that with all the surveillance cameras out there these days, I'd worry that if something happened to either one of the kids in the near future those videos could cause problems for even people with the best of intentions. Even driving up to them to ask if they're okay can be dangerous.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sat Nov 07, 2015 4:18 pm

tude dog;1489152 wrote: That is why G-d created Men first.It's the men that are the danger.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Sat Nov 07, 2015 4:38 pm

If a Man were to approach them to check on their safety, that Man's motives would be under immediate suspicion.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Sat Nov 07, 2015 4:55 pm

FourPart;1489162 wrote: If a Man were to approach them to check on their safety, that Man's motives would be under immediate suspicion.

Yup, sexism at work.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sat Nov 07, 2015 5:36 pm

tude dog;1489173 wrote: Yup, sexism at work.You label that sexism and decry the label of racism when blacks, Latinos and Muslims are profiled?

Smaug · Post by **Smaug** » Sat Nov 07, 2015 5:55 pm

Ahso!;1489154 wrote: It's the men that are the danger.

I would agree 99% with you on that, Ahso! I BlameThe 'Elite'; power-hungry fools(mainly men) who have imposed their rules on us (with our acquiescence), and use us as their pawns to further their grasp on power. It's not so much a question of IF, only WHEN the whole 'house of cards' comes crashing down around us, and the world descends into chaos, and probable mass-extinction for mankind. We have developed incredibly quickly on the technical level, but hardly (if at all) on the social level (by comparison). This imbalance will probably be fatal at some stage (power is highly dangerous without adequate safeguards).

Sorry to sound so grim, but I can see 'the writing on the wall', as the saying goes.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Sat Nov 07, 2015 6:50 pm

Ahso!;1489186 wrote: You label that sexism and decry the label of racism when blacks, Latinos and Muslims are profiled?

Where did Racism come into it?

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sat Nov 07, 2015 6:54 pm

FourPart;1489194 wrote: Where did Racism come into it?Hypocrisy! That's always relevant.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sat Nov 07, 2015 6:57 pm

Smaug;1489188 wrote: I would agree 99% with you on that, Ahso! I BlameThe 'Elite'; power-hungry fools(mainly men) who have imposed their rules on us (with our acquiescence), and use us as their pawns to further their grasp on power. It's not so much a question of IF, only WHEN the whole 'house of cards' comes crashing down around us, and the world descends into chaos, and probable mass-extinction for mankind. We have developed incredibly quickly on the technical level, but hardly (if at all) on the social level (by comparison). This imbalance will probably be fatal at some stage (power is highly dangerous without adequate safeguards).

Sorry to sound so grim, but I can see 'the writing on the wall', as the saying goes.The post I quoted was referring to the beginning of humankind - the biblical version, that is.

The implication was that God created man in order to protect women and children. My post was a refutation to that claim.

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Sat Nov 07, 2015 9:32 pm

Excuse Me - I (as a Female) was the one who stated I would pull over & assist.

Would that situation be different(suspicious) if a Male pulled up to the 2 boys?

Not necessarily - your not trying to bribe the 2 into the vehicle. Female or Male pulling up to the 2 boys to assist would not be Racism or sexism - your assuming or over analyzing or have past experience that needs to be express with a counselor.

I'm so surprised at all these replies.

It's the safety of the children

Patsy

Snowfire · Post by **Snowfire** » Sun Nov 08, 2015 4:48 am

Patsy Warnick;1489197 wrote: Excuse Me - I (as a Female) was the one who stated I would pull over & assist.

Would that situation be different(suspicious) if a Male pulled up to the 2 boys?

Not necessarily - your not trying to bribe the 2 into the vehicle. Female or Male pulling up to the 2 boys to assist would not be Racism or sexism - your assuming or over analyzing or have past experience that needs to be express with a counselor.

I'm so surprised at all these replies.

It's the safety of the children

Patsy

I can envisage a situation by which a man encouraging two young boys to get into a car could find him being questioned, however well meant his intentions. The boys would probably describe a man who was encouraging them to get into a car with him. A situation, I'm sure they would have been taught to avoid at all costs and quite rightly so. Given that, my option would be to call the police to ensure their safety and not to put myself in an awkward, compromising situation.

I might consider a different option if I was with my wife and I'm sure my wife would be happy to stop and give them a lift if she were on her own. We are bound by social constraints when faced with awkward situations

Post by **LarsMac** » Sun Nov 08, 2015 8:03 am

Snowfire;1489201 wrote: I can envisage a situation by which a man encouraging two young boys to get into a car could find him being questioned, however well meant his intentions. The boys would probably describe a man who was encouraging them to get into a car with him. A situation, I'm sure they would have been taught to avoid at all costs and quite rightly so. Given that, my option would be to call the police to ensure their safety and not to put myself in an awkward, compromising situation.

I might consider a different option if I was with my wife and I'm sure my wife would be happy to stop and give them a lift if she were on her own. We are bound by social constraints when faced with awkward situations

That is exactly right. If my wife was with me, there would be no question of contacting the boys and finding out what they were up to. Alone, I would at most call the authorities.