Authorities in Finland are considering giving every citizen a tax-free payout of €800 (£576) each month ........................................Unemployment in Finland is currently at record levels, and the basic income is intended to encourage more people back to work. At present, many unemployed people would be worse off if they took on low-paid temporary jobs due to loss of welfare payments.
Makes the difference in the world finances vividly clear......but will it push people back into work ?
National basic income
National basic income
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
National basic income
I'm delighted to see a country considering this experiment and perhaps putting it to the test. It's a core element of what I've been writing this month. Seeing the effects in practice would be interesting. And it's an EU member country, too.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
National basic income
It sounds to me very much like what Working Tax Credits are already.
National basic income
FourPart;1490455 wrote: It sounds to me very much like what Working Tax Credits are already.
Except they apply to the unemployed as well?
Except they apply to the unemployed as well?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
National basic income
The only thing I can see happening as a result of that is to devalue their economy. It's like printing more money. The more there is of a commodity, the less valuable it becomes.
National basic income
FourPart;1490463 wrote: The only thing I can see happening as a result of that is to devalue their economy. It's like printing more money. The more there is of a commodity, the less valuable it becomes.Unlike Working Tax Credits, presumably.
How does it differ from the benefits system in terms of "it's like printing more money"? Is it in any way different?
How does it differ from the benefits system in terms of "it's like printing more money"? Is it in any way different?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
National basic income
Working Tax Credits are means tested, meaning that the amount you get decreases proportionately with the amount you earn, but their very existence encourages people to work rather than remain on benefits. Handing out a flat rate to everyone doesn't have that effect - quite the contrary. I doubt there are many who would disagree that there needs to be some sort of incentive for people to work, rather than remain on benefits, and the carrot approach always beats that of the stick, but when the lower income bracket get a proportionately higher payment, making them more on a par with those that are working, the incentive diminishes.
I could be wrong - I don't deny that. I just don't see how it can possibly work.
I could be wrong - I don't deny that. I just don't see how it can possibly work.
National basic income
FourPart;1490468 wrote: I could be wrong - I don't deny that. I just don't see how it can possibly work.You evidently have a better understanding of economics than the government and civil service of Finland.
You seem fixated on these Working Tax Credits. Let me focus the question - How does handing 800 Euros a month to each of the unemployed differ from providing them with the benefits available to the unemployed, in terms of "it's like printing more money"?
You seem fixated on these Working Tax Credits. Let me focus the question - How does handing 800 Euros a month to each of the unemployed differ from providing them with the benefits available to the unemployed, in terms of "it's like printing more money"?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
National basic income
Differ from? You imply that it's one or the other.
National basic income
FourPart;1490471 wrote: [quote=spot]
How does handing 800 Euros a month to each of the unemployed differ from providing them with the benefits available to the unemployed, in terms of "it's like printing more money"?Differ from? You imply that it's one or the other.
They're not going to provide benefits to the unemployed and also 800 Euros a month on top, of course it's one or the other.
How does handing 800 Euros a month to each of the unemployed differ from providing them with the benefits available to the unemployed, in terms of "it's like printing more money"?Differ from? You imply that it's one or the other.
They're not going to provide benefits to the unemployed and also 800 Euros a month on top, of course it's one or the other.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
National basic income
Working Tax Credits subsidise bad employers. I think they were meant to help small companies employ an extra pair of hands, but they are now abused by major national employers to utilise the staffing of service industries with shorter contracted hours to cover peak times.Instead of employing someone for 8 hours a day, they can have 2 people cover the same 4 hour peak period on lower pay than full time employees.
Only a very rich country could contemplate paying every working age adult such an amount of money across the board, but why would anybody get out of their warm bed and go to do a days work for an amount of money close to what they could get for staying at home?
What are the benefits of paying this 'wage' to everybody in work or not?
Only a very rich country could contemplate paying every working age adult such an amount of money across the board, but why would anybody get out of their warm bed and go to do a days work for an amount of money close to what they could get for staying at home?
What are the benefits of paying this 'wage' to everybody in work or not?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
National basic income
It was explained to me that if everyone had an assured subsistence income, they could "pursue their bliss", so to speak, and find the type of job which they can enjoy doing, therefore making a happier society where people love their jobs.
I am not sure how dishes are going to get washed in this world, or sewers will be cleaned, barns mucked, that sort of thing, but OK, let's go with that.
The next obvious item, of course, is "how do we pay for such a thing?"
I guess that if the country is very productive, with a phenomenal GDP, then the gummint is merely sharing the national treasure with the people who really make it all possible. Some of it must come from the income currently claimed by all the big-wig CEOs and other executives that currently rake in all the profits by means of large salaries and bonuses.
Perhaps a small country like Iceland may be able to pull it off. I don't yet see how most larger nations can make it work.
I am not sure how dishes are going to get washed in this world, or sewers will be cleaned, barns mucked, that sort of thing, but OK, let's go with that.
The next obvious item, of course, is "how do we pay for such a thing?"
I guess that if the country is very productive, with a phenomenal GDP, then the gummint is merely sharing the national treasure with the people who really make it all possible. Some of it must come from the income currently claimed by all the big-wig CEOs and other executives that currently rake in all the profits by means of large salaries and bonuses.
Perhaps a small country like Iceland may be able to pull it off. I don't yet see how most larger nations can make it work.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
National basic income
LarsMac;1490478 wrote: It was explained to me that if everyone had an assured subsistence income, they could "pursue their bliss", so to speak, and find the type of job which they can enjoy doing, therefore making a happier society where people love their jobs....................................................Perhaps a small country like Iceland may be able to pull it off. I don't yet see how most larger nations can make it work.
In a perfect world that could be correct, but people being people with envy and jealousy creeping in, I don't know if man has evolved that far.............yet.
The Scandinavian countries are rich democracies with advanced social consciences, so maybe they could carry it off.
In a perfect world that could be correct, but people being people with envy and jealousy creeping in, I don't know if man has evolved that far.............yet.
The Scandinavian countries are rich democracies with advanced social consciences, so maybe they could carry it off.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth