Recent Rimini incident

[Lenn]

Recently, the media all over the world are constantly talking about a Polish couple that went to Rimini, Italy this past Friday and got attacked by a group of four men whose identity is still to be established. The woman was gang-raped and the man severely beaten. I have several thoughts concerning this incident.

First, the news media are instantly trying to instill in the minds of the people all over the world some false information as to the identity of those attackers, claiming that they were immigrants from Africa. As far as I know, that hasn't been confirmed yet and there is even some strong evidence that the couple may have been attacked by their co-patriots from Poland with whom thay had had problems earlier - while in the hotel.

Secondly, I wonder whether there might be some kind of "national karma" in work here. During the last war, Polish people were notorious for robbing, raping and killing Jews on a large scale. So maybe it is necessary for the universe to stay in balance that they get some justice now.

Thirdly, living now on the Polish/Slovakian border, I have a wide access to Polish media and I am disgusted by how this incident is being used by the government (strongly right-wing nowadays). The ministry of health has announced already that the woman will not be allowed to undergo abortion, should it be the case, at least not on Polish territory. And of course this is all immigrants' fault and yet another argument not to let immigrants settle down in the country. Not even one! I find all these discussions on the incident on Polish TV particularly repulsive and offensive to all women.

[gmc]

I thought the polish abortion ban had failed in the face of mass protest. Yet another example of why the religious right should be something we should fear

Secondly, I wonder whether there might be some kind of "[QUOTE]national karma" in work here. During the last war, Polish people were notorious for robbing, raping and killing Jews on a large scale. So maybe it is necessary for the universe to stay in balance that they get some justice now.




In that case the french, germans and russians are in deep **** not to mention the catholic church that backed hitler during ww2 and the rest of the christan churches at whose behest anti-semitism became so rife throughout the christian world..

[spot]

Lenn;1511958 wrote: During the last war, Polish people were notorious for robbing, raping and killing Jews on a large scale.I don't believe you should write such an accusation without citing evidence. I dispute either the "notorious" and the "large scale", or the "Polish". During the last war Poland was occupied by the Third Reich whose forces were notorious for robbing, raping and killing Jews on a large scale. To use the term "large scale" to describe any acts of robbery, rape or killing of Jews by individual Poles during that period is nonsensical by contrast, I have no doubt there were instances but "large scale" was entirely down to the forces of occupation over which no Pole had any control whatever. I would suggest there was a higher rate of antisemitic collaboration in most other occupied European countries compared with that in Poland (and Denmark), with Ukrainians notoriously and justifiably at the head of the list.



Lenn;1511958 wrote: The ministry of health has announced already that the woman will not be allowed to undergo abortion, should it be the case, at least not on Polish territory.Perhaps you could show us a reliable report of this, I can find none. Any language will do.

[Lenn]

gmc;1511959 wrote: I thought the polish abortion ban had failed in the face of mass protest. Yet another example of why the religious right should be something we should fear.




You are right, the planned total abortion ban was not introduced last year thanks to the mass social protests (so called #blackprotest).

The situation is not all that easy, however. Rather not easy at all.

Legally, abortion is allowed in Poland in three cases, including rape, but there is a considerable difference between theory and practice. In order to be allowed abortion, a raped woman has to obtain an official 'confirmation' of the fact that she was raped from the Public Prosecutor. Under the current regime, all Public Prosecutors are dependent on the General Prosecutor (Ministry of Justice) who simply forbid them to issue 'confirmations' out of ideological and religious reasons. Without 'confirmation' no doctor will perform the abortion. In practice then, there's no abortion in Poland. If you want to get one you just have to go abroad.

[Lenn]

spot;1511962 wrote: I don't believe you should write such an accusation without citing evidence. I dispute either the "notorious" and the "large scale", or the "Polish". During the last war Poland was occupied by the Third Reich whose forces were notorious for robbing, raping and killing Jews on a large scale. To use the term "large scale" to describe any acts of robbery, rape or killing of Jews by individual Poles during that period is nonsensical by contrast, I have no doubt there were instances but "large scale" was entirely down to the forces of occupation over which no Pole had any control whatever.


Well, you must have heard about the recent research of T. Gross. This American scholar has proved above all doubt, and supported his claims with numerical details, that - apart from the Jews murdered by Poles in collaboration with Germans - some 800.000 Jewish individuals were murdered solely by the Polish hands without any encouragement or incitement from German part. If it's not a large scale, then what is?



spot;1511962 wrote: I would suggest there was a higher rate of antisemitic collaboration in most other occupied European countries compared with that in Poland (and Denmark), with Ukrainians notoriously and justifiably at the head of the list.




Actually, Denmark managed to save its whole Jewish population. The same is true for (surprise, surprise!) Bulgaria. In other countries, the rates of antisemitic collaboration were much lower but supposedly well documented - as opposed to non-documented in Poland. Therefore there is an impression to the contrary. Believe me, I spend the greater part of the week in Poland, constantly watch Polish TV, so I know what I'm talking about. Nothing compares to Polish - completely unfounded and unreasoned - hatred towards the Chosen Nation.

[Lenn]

spot;1511962 wrote:

Perhaps you could show us a reliable report of this, I can find none. Any language will do.


It was on air today morning (around 9 AM CEST), on TVP1 - Polish public broadcaster - totally controlled by the gov't since December 2015. The representative of Ministry of Health was apparently invited as a guest to their morning program (as it is called here - breakfast television) and said, when asked by the journalist if there would be an exception from gov't policy in this case (I'm citing from memory): "we hope that there won't be... a result of this abhorrent act, because - as you well understand - our values will make it impossible to resolve this problem in such a brutal way as it is commonly seen in other countries. No, not on Polish soil".

[gmc]

posted by lenn

Well, you must have heard about the recent research of T. Gross. This American scholar has proved above all doubt, and supported his claims with numerical details, that - apart from the Jews murdered by Poles in collaboration with Germans - some 800.000 Jewish individuals were murdered solely by the Polish hands without any encouragement or incitement from German part. If it's not a large scale, then what is?




It's hardly a surprise that anti-semitism was not exactly confined to germany in many ways it had actually been one of the more tolerant nations,

Nothing compares to Polish - completely unfounded and unreasoned - hatred towards the Chosen Nation.


Speak to a christian it's neither unfounded or unreasoning bigotry has it's own logic. Currently the catholic church is trying to re-write history downplaying their part in the rise of hitler and spreading the nonsense that hitler was an atheist rather than a devout christian doing god's work.

[spot]

Lenn;1511964 wrote: Well, you must have heard about the recent research of T. Gross. This American scholar has proved above all doubt, and supported his claims with numerical details, that - apart from the Jews murdered by Poles in collaboration with Germans - some 800.000 Jewish individuals were murdered solely by the Polish hands without any encouragement or incitement from German part.


I would be grateful for a citation, preferably an online citation, of that number. The research of Professor Gross is well known but I am quite convinced in my own mind that the figure you have given here does not match the description you have provided. The Polish Resistance may have killed Germans by the thousand but I would be very surprised if they killed them by the tens of thousands. I know of only one use of the figure 800.000 in any of Professor Gross's work and that relates to "800,000 Jews gassed and cremated in the Treblinka extermination camp between July 1942 and October 1943" mentioned on Jan Tomasz Gross - Biography | Artist | Culture.pl - where do you see the figure in the context you offered? I find it impossible to believe your statement quoted above, and impossible to believe Professor Gross ever suggested such a scale. I shall, of course, apologize if I turn out to be simply ignorant.

[magentaflame]

Lenn;1511958 wrote: Recently, the media all over the world are constantly talking about a Polish couple.


Bit of a stretch isnt it? Havent heard a thing nor can i find it on the net.

[Clodhopper]

Being God's Chosen people seems a really, really bad thing to be. If we go by your History he's had you enslaved repeatedly, massacred on a regular basis, thrown out of your country and enslaved and massacred a bit more. This is interspersed with a few city massacres and terrorism of your own (on instruction from Above).

The British claim to be God's Chosen people (in a good way) seems far more convincing based on History.

Honestly, I wonder if you really are Jewish. If you were an active anti-semite you couldn't have done a better job.

[magentaflame]

Clodhopper;1511986 wrote:

Honestly, I wonder if you really are Jewish. If you were an active anti-semite you couldn't have done a better job.


Ahh, glad you said that . I deleted a sentence from my post in case i'd read the OP wrongly.

It was my opinion it was some kind of convoluted bigotry.

[LarsMac]

Lenn;1511964 wrote: Well, you must have heard about the recent research of T. Gross. This American scholar has proved above all doubt, and supported his claims with numerical details, that - apart from the Jews murdered by Poles in collaboration with Germans - some 800.000 Jewish individuals were murdered solely by the Polish hands without any encouragement or incitement from German part. If it's not a large scale, then what is?





Actually, Denmark managed to save its whole Jewish population. The same is true for (surprise, surprise!) Bulgaria. In other countries, the rates of antisemitic collaboration were much lower but supposedly well documented - as opposed to non-documented in Poland. Therefore there is an impression to the contrary. Believe me, I spend the greater part of the week in Poland, constantly watch Polish TV, so I know what I'm talking about. Nothing compares to Polish - completely unfounded and unreasoned - hatred towards the Chosen Nation.


I had to go look it up. I assume you are referring to Tomasz Gross. He seems to have a chip on his shoulder, and and ax to grind.

From what I read so far, he only included testimony of people whose recollections agreed with the findings he wished to publish.

While I am sure that there were plenty of locals who had no problem with helping the Nazi occupation in their "Crusade" I highly doubt that a majority of Poles were Freely collaborating and spending their free time whacking random Jews for sport.

[Clodhopper]

Interesting the OP has edited his more controversial comments - the one about the Chosen People has gone, I see.