Will anyone know your name in a thousand years?

Post by **LarsMac** » Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:28 pm

An interesting notion or two were raised in this article.

How to be remembered in 1000 years

In general they discuss notoriety through the centuries, what it takes to be memorable long after the world in which one made an impression has become just a notation in the history books.

How many people who "made history" in the previous Millennium will be remembered by the end of this one?

And, how many of those do you suppose will have been from this previous Century which is well writ in our own memories?

Taking that just a little further, I know 'we have only just begun' this new millennium, but do you think many of the movers and shakers of today will be long remembered as influential in the next thousand years?

magentaflame · Post by **magentaflame** » Mon Dec 25, 2017 12:51 am

In this instance i think of the 'bog man'...and others like him.. he represents more than himself but a whole culture. Infamy is fleeting.

messo · Post by **messo** » Mon Dec 25, 2017 2:37 am

Why would anyone care whether or not their name is remembered in a thousand years? Do you think Alexander The Great, Hammurabi, Genghis Khan,or Hitler cares if anyone still remembers their name, or whether its famous or infamous? I suspect not.

Post by **LarsMac** » Mon Dec 25, 2017 7:46 am

messo;1516350 wrote: Why would anyone care whether or not their name is remembered in a thousand years? Do you think Alexander The Great, Hammurabi, Genghis Khan,or Hitler cares if anyone still remembers their name, or whether its famous or infamous? I suspect not.

They probably do not much care, now, but in their lifetime, Eternal fame was their goal.

Post by **spot** » Mon Dec 25, 2017 7:53 am

If anyone knows the names of any of the bog corpses I'd be wonderfully pleased.

magentaflame · Post by **magentaflame** » Mon Dec 25, 2017 12:40 pm

You dont need to know a name to know someone. I know plenty of people called. "Mate"......or spot.

magentaflame · Post by **magentaflame** » Mon Dec 25, 2017 12:42 pm

And yet, we have plenty of names of people from history (written on stone or pots etc ) and we have no idea who they are.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:25 am

The religious queueing up to get in to heaven hope their name will be famous for eternity, or at least long enough to get in - apart from the ones who find god and just repent all their misdeeds and get in that way, and women who don't have a soul being made from adam's rib.

Most of us are lucky if our name lasts a generation or two - what was your great great grandfathers name?

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:25 am

Everyone makes History in their own little way. They may not be recognised so much as others for it, but they make History nonetheless.

magentaflame · Post by **magentaflame** » Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:51 am

FourPart;1516380 wrote: Everyone makes History in their own little way. They may not be recognised so much as others for it, but they make History nonetheless.

Yes....what about all those people who have died in all those famous wars. Without them dying we wouldnt have all those famous wars therefore no alexanders the great, no mcarthys, no churchills.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:40 am

I do agree with Fourpart (don't say that often!) and Mags that History is the sum of all our parts. We all make our own history in our own lives and how we affect and are affected by others. We are part of a wider History too: all our lives add up to the social, political and economic Now. Put that into a context of what came before and we see how lives have changed over the last 20 years, 50, 100 and so on, and can try to identify how, in what ways and why. That's History.

Then of course you have those whose lives put them in a position that affects many people: business leaders, politicians from the Town Hall up, emergency services might go here too. Leaders in war tend to be remembered. Churchill really was an important figure and without him the 2nd WW might well have ended differently and certainly would have taken a very different course.

The big killers have a hold on us. Stalin, Pol Pot, Genghis Khan, Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, Hitler.

But to really make your name last - found a successful religion.

Wandrin · Post by **Wandrin** » Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:11 pm

Clodhopper;1516409 wrote:

But to really make your name last - found a successful religion.

Or have one founded in your name. Buddha was a Hindu and would be appalled that a religion was started in his name.

Post by **LarsMac** » Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:22 pm

Wandrin;1516420 wrote: Or have one founded in your name. Buddha was a Hindu and would be appalled that a religion was started in his name.

Most modern Buddhists that I have met say that Buddhism is not intended to be a religion. Many Christian thinkers say the same about Christianity.

I rather like Thomas Merton's view on them.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:34 am

Don't know who Thomas Merton is or what he said...

I've thought of another one:

Be a major character in a really old poem: Agamemnon, Achilles, Menelaus, Helen - we know of them all. Gilgamesh too - all were almost certainly real people.

Edit: and I just noticed there was an article attached and read it....

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:16 am

Clodhopper;1516409 wrote: I

But to really make your name last - found a successful religion.

Not really who was that founded scientology. or the baptist church? OK you probably know but I bet most people couldn't do so.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:45 am

gmc;1516427 wrote: Not really who was that founded scientology. or the baptist church? OK you probably know but I bet most people couldn't do so.

I wouldn't exactly class Scientology as a 'successful' Religion, but wasn't the Baptist Church founded from John the Baptist.

Additionally, of course, Jesus was a Jew. If he ever existed I doubt very much he would have approved of a Religion being founded in his name.

Post by **LarsMac** » Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:20 am

Baptist Church is probably not a good example, actually. there are a number of different factions of "Baptists" and non of them seem to be able to agree with each other. But John Calvin probably gets the credit for defining the basic tenets of Baptist Churches in general.

As for Scientology, we will have to wait a few centuries to see if L Ron Hubbard truly wins a place in the list of immortals.

I suppose people like Newton, and Einstein, the Wright Bros. and Goddard might make the list for this last Millennium. Perhaps Saladin, Hitler, Stalin, Napoleon?

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:15 pm

FourPart;1516428 wrote: I wouldn't exactly class Scientology as a 'successful' Religion, but wasn't the Baptist Church founded from John the Baptist.

Additionally, of course, Jesus was a Jew. If he ever existed I doubt very much he would have approved of a Religion being founded in his name.

I find it hard to believe firstly it gets classed as a religion and secondly that it actually gets any followers that stay interested beyond the point where anyione finds out it's origins. Mind you I find that to be the case for religion in general but then I have yet to find one that can answer why they believe in god in the first place.

John the baptist is incidental the baptist comes from from baptising by total immersion of adults and rejecting the baptism of infants. Calvin was one of the thinkers that sparked the protestant reformation and what we would recognise as puritan thinking. Consubstantiation was another of his favourites.

Even of those whose names we know how many will remember what they said or did. Already many seem to think think ww2 was the americans against the germans saving europe from domination by the nazis,

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:51 pm

Even of those whose names we know how many will remember what they said or did. Already many seem to think think ww2 was the americans against the germans saving europe from domination by the nazis,

I think that one's a bit different - it's myth making. We did the same thing when Top Nation: Took us 150 years to recognise eg the contribution of the Prussians at Waterloo. Curiously enough now it seems that Wellington and his allied army had much the same job as the British in WW2 - to hang on until more allies could turn up and then help deliver the coup de grace.

As far as I can tell the best summary of the Brits and Yanks in WW2 is that they both could and did pick holes in and criticise eachother, often fairly but sometimes not, but both would admit that the other would always do its best (however incompetent) against the enemy and that couldn't always be said of other allies.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:55 pm

gmc;1516427 wrote: Not really who was that founded scientology. or the baptist church? OK you probably know but I bet most people couldn't do so.

Don't know who founded the Baptists, or Methodists. Chuckle. Wesleyans are easier. But they are sects, really, even Hubbard's nasty little bunch. It's all Christian from a historian's point of view.

magentaflame · Post by **magentaflame** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:13 am

Reading a book on philosophy at the moment ....and it mentions Thales of Miletus....he didnt leave behind any body of work, and we only know of him through Aristotle. Known as one of the "seven wise men" of the ancient world by Plato. He tentatively sort of discovered "matter" ...but then went off on a trip about water being the basis of the universe. But he was enough of a mathmatician to predict a solar eclipse in 585 Bc.

He was also known as a clutz.... apparently being so absorbed in his work he stumbled into a ditch.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:33 am

Clodhopper;1516444 wrote: Don't know who founded the Baptists, or Methodists. Chuckle. Wesleyans are easier. But they are sects, really, even Hubbard's nasty little bunch. It's all Christian from a historian's point of view.

From a historians point of view what would be interesting is what is it about christianity that all the various sects are so hell bent on attacking, and in some cases exterminating, everyone that disagrees with their particular definition of what christianity is. Heresy and apostasy are peculiarly crimes against religion that warrant death and still do in some circles. Such hatred is it a human trait that relgion intensifies or one solely due to religion?

Scioentology christian?

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:42 am

gmc;1516455 wrote: From a historians point of view what would be interesting is what is it about christianity that all the various sects are so hell bent on attacking, and in some cases exterminating, everyone that disagrees with their particular definition of what christianity is. Heresy and apostasy are peculiarly crimes against religion that warrant death and still do in some circles. Such hatred is it a human trait that relgion intensifies or one solely due to religion?

Scioentology christian?

Well, I'd call Mormons Christian and their foundation wasn't much better if what I hear is true (led by a charismatic murderer who charmed the pants off women). I appreciate that most Christians wouldn't accept the Church of Christ Scientist as Christian but I'd put them out at the wacky extreme.

Sadly, I think the impulse is human and religion just uses and directs it. Fear of the other, scapegoating, the enforcement of conformity. Religion always seems to be tied in with the enforcement of norms that benefit society in some way, or are at least believed to do so. This ranges from organised religion backing the temporal power with for example the anointing of monarchs to nasty human traits like scapegoating (a large part of witch-burning I suspect) which seem deeply ingrained in us. A common set of beliefs unifies the tribe. Dissenters threaten the unity of the tribe and are rarely tolerated. Religion is a force multiplier in this situation.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:53 am

magentaflame;1516453 wrote: Reading a book on philosophy at the moment ....and it mentions Thales of Miletus....he didnt leave behind any body of work, and we only know of him through Aristotle. Known as one of the "seven wise men" of the ancient world by Plato. He tentatively sort of discovered "matter" ...but then went off on a trip about water being the basis of the universe. But he was enough of a mathmatician to predict a solar eclipse in 585 Bc.

He was also known as a clutz.... apparently being so absorbed in his work he stumbled into a ditch.

How utterly tantalising. Given that water is H2O he was 2/3rds right, since hydrogen IS the basis of the universe!

And you never know what will turn up unexpectedly. Things do.

magentaflame · Post by **magentaflame** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:54 am

Well if you can write about an arrow not going anywhere in flight youll be remembered 2500 years later, as in Zeno's paradoxes....reductio ad absurdum

magentaflame · Post by **magentaflame** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:57 am

Dont know whats more frightening....the fact that im reading this stuff ...or scarier still....that i understand it.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:03 am

All Religions are akin to negotiating a contract, and people pick & choose which option gives them the best deal. It makes no difference as to what the original scripture actually says, if one interpretation is more palateable than another, then that is going to be the one to get the followers, according to the nature of the person concerned. For example, those who are racially bigotted are more likely to be drawn towards the sects, such as the Ku Klux Klan, who only consider Whites to be the Chosen People. This is merely because it supports their preexisting beliefs. Then there is the issue of polygamy. Some specify 1 man, 1 wife, yet others allow multiple wives. Some sects believe in abstinence from alcohol, while others incorporate alcohol as part of their Holy Communion rituals, in the enacting of what is essentially cannibalism. The Catholics supposedly have their Priests practice abstinence from sex, while others have their Vicars often married with children. Then there is the ordnance of women as priests / vicars. Gay Marriage, etc. Religion is nothing more than politics. Each one has its own little manifesto & the follower picks & chooses which option best meets his or her personal requirements, and then plumps for that one as the one & only 'true' Religion, and decries all others as being sacreligious, whereas if they were to follow the texts precisely you'd end up with a mass of totally confused nutjobs, such as Pahu & Frodo.

Post by **LarsMac** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:07 am

Firstly, I reckon that for every religious leader who has successfully founded a religion that has lasted for millennia, there are hundreds, or even thousands who have long faded into the dusts of time. And there are, perhaps even now the beginnings of some cult following that will eventually become one of the great religions of the universe.

Nikola Tesla for instance. Who knows what is in store for him and his story over the centuries?

Or perhaps Stephen Hawking.

And given how fate seems to twist and turn, perhaps the good scientist, Richard Dawkins. Or James Randi?

But, there are far more men of science and philosophy remembered over the Millennium than religious leaders. kings, queens, emperors, conquerors, a few politicians, a few generals, and even an admiral or two.

Of course we have a lot more people in the last few centuries that a thousand years ago, and trend watchers suggest that there will be far more showing up in the next thousand.

So, who among the people who made a name for themselves in the last century do you think will still be remembered in 3018?

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:16 am

Michael Faraday, Charles Darwin & Stephen Hawking.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:00 pm

Not likely.

Post by **LarsMac** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:14 pm

Ted;1516493 wrote: Not likely.

Explain?

Post by **LarsMac** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:57 pm

FourPart;1516485 wrote: Michael Faraday, Charles Darwin & Stephen Hawking.

Faraday stands the best chance of those three, I think.

Hawking, perhaps, but I suspect Darwin will actually fade away into scientific footnotes, in a thousand years. All of the uproar his work caused in the last 150 years will likely be of little importance by then.

Wandrin · Post by **Wandrin** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:44 pm

Will Salk still be remembered or fade into obscurity? I'm having trouble remembering the name of the once famous heart surgeon who did the first transplant. Will Elon Musk be remembered as a pioneer or obscured once the big companies have made the technology the new "normal"? Will a modern group of robber barons take advantage of the loosening regulations to take their positions with Rockefeller, Morgan, et. al.?

Post by **LarsMac** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:56 pm

Wandrin;1516508 wrote: Will Salk still be remembered or fade into obscurity? I'm having trouble remembering the name of the once famous heart surgeon who did the first transplant. Will Elon Musk be remembered as a pioneer or obscured once the big companies have made the technology the new "normal"? Will a modern group of robber barons take advantage of the loosening regulations to take their positions with Rockefeller, Morgan, et. al.?

Christiaan Barnard is the heart surgeon, I think

Wandrin · Post by **Wandrin** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:05 pm

LarsMac;1516509 wrote: Christiaan Barnard is the heart surgeon, I think

Yes, he's the one I was thinking of. Thanks.

Post by **LarsMac** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:07 pm

A lot of people who have accomplished notable feats will likely be recorded and their accomplishments on record in archives, but I think that to actually be a part of the general knowledge of civilization, such as Homer, Alexander, Julius Caesar, Pythagoras, Plato, Siddhartha, Mohamed, and so on a thousand years into the future, they will need to have provided such a significant work as to define civilization, itself.

Wandrin · Post by **Wandrin** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:04 pm

LarsMac;1516473 wrote:

Nikola Tesla for instance. Who knows what is in store for him and his story over the centuries?

I would be very happy if the government released all of his papers and writings that they so swiftly snatched up upon his death. That would make for some fascinating reading.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:29 pm

LarsMac I'm just an average person, and when I'm gone folks who knew me will remember for awhile but because I have not made a big name for myself I think it =highly unlikely folks will remember me beyond the genealogy pages my name will slip away.

Post by **LarsMac** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:36 pm

Ted;1516519 wrote: LarsMac I'm just an average person, and when I'm gone folks who knew me will remember for awhile but because I have not made a big name for myself I think it =highly unlikely folks will remember me beyond the genealogy pages my name will slip away.

Ted, I suspect most of us are in that same boat. Though there is the possibility that some where in the future, someone will come across archives of this forum and read something that peaks their interests. you never know

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:42 pm

LarsMac right on.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:45 am

Gods.

There's a theory that the Saxon/Viking gods are ancestors, so it's possible that Thor, Woden/Odin, Frigg/Freya were actual people. If that's so and civilisation goes kerplumph but with survivors, then it's possible any of you with descendents could become gods in the future...

Post by **LarsMac** » Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:34 am

Clodhopper;1516543 wrote: Gods.

There's a theory that the Saxon/Viking gods are ancestors, so it's possible that Thor, Woden/Odin, Frigg/Freya were actual people. If that's so and civilisation goes kerplumph but with survivors, then it's possible any of you with descendents could become gods in the future...

I suspect that a lot of those "Gods" were real people who did something worthy of a campfire story, that got passed down through the ages.

Like the Paul Bunyan, Davy Crockett, and the like.

Someday, people will be telling tales of Muhamed Ali, Bill Gates, Elon Musk and the like, or "Good vs Evil" tales of Meuller and Trump. Who knows?

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:05 pm

Genuine example how a slightest thing can make a difference.

Some years ago a friend of mine on IRC Chat was a raging alcoholic. She had began to train as a nurse, but her life had taken a turn & she turned to drink. When she'd been drinking she would constantly get banned from the chat rooms. I took pity on her & gave her support by chatting in PM. Someone to talk to when she needed to vent etc., without being judgemental. Eventually, over a couple of years she started to think straight & determined to dry out & renew her nursing training, then went on to specialise in Palliative Care. I like to think that from a simple act of kindness by merely being there when I was needed, I was able to change someone's life for the better who, in turn, went on to change countless other lives for the better - and quite possibly be part of saving lives that she might not have been present to save had things turned out differently.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mean this to come across as being in any way self effacing, but it demonstrates how the smallest things can have major repercussions - both for the positive & the negative. Perhaps things might have worked out in the same way on their own, but I like to think I had more than a little hand in helping at least one person get a grip on her life. The thing is, as with most things, it's the final outcome people see & relate to - not the cause of how they came to be.

Wandrin · Post by **Wandrin** » Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:38 pm

It is my great hope that over the next thousand years we won't have any new names added to the history books in the line of "_____ the conqueror", or great military generals. It is my hope that a name will be added for someone remembered as "one of the greatest peace makers" or negotiator instead. I know that the odds are slim and that history is against me on this one, but I can hope.

G#Gill · Post by **G#Gill** » Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:42 pm

If I changed my name, by Deed Poll, to Queen Elizabeth, I'm quite sure that history books ( or however historical facts are stored in a thousand years time ) will have at least a paragraph ( or it's equivalent ) devoted to my existence !

If I remain with the name I was christened with or changed by marriage, I doubt that I would be remembered by anybody but my direct descendants, and that would only be as a passing curiosity ! :-3

magentaflame · Post by **magentaflame** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:15 pm

Ive just discovered why none of us (and im just assuming here,although given some of the posts i could be wrong) will be famous beyond our lifetimes. Apparently we dont take enough alcohol and drugs.

A book being discussed on radio the other day called 'Tanked'...by Amon Evans. How alcohol and drugs shaped human history.

Seems our most beloved and others were constantly off their faces. And quite a few youd be shocked about.

So it seems you 'll have to start hitting the bottle or shooting up if you want to be remembered......and dont forget to leave a trail off distruction as you go.

Wandrin · Post by **Wandrin** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:36 pm

magentaflame;1516605 wrote: Ive just discovered why none of us (and im just assuming here,although given some of the posts i could be wrong) will be famous beyond our lifetimes. Apparently we dont take enough alcohol and drugs.

A book being discussed on radio the other day called 'Tanked'...by Amon Evans. How alcohol and drugs shaped human history.

Seems our most beloved and others were constantly off their faces. And quite a few youd be shocked about.

So it seems you 'll have to start hitting the bottle or shooting up if you want to be remembered......and dont forget to leave a trail off distruction as you go.

It seems that there were some famous fans of Vin Mariani - cocaine infused wine. Queen Victoria, Pope Leo XIII, Pope Pius X, Thomas Edison, and Ulysses S. Grant were all fans. Pope Leo even awarded a Vatican gold medal to it and was in a poster for it.

magentaflame · Post by **magentaflame** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:48 pm

I went to pope pius tenth primary school....suddenly things are becoming clear to me. It was the eucharistic wine!!!!! Is there no end to the evils of the catholic church? Lol

Stalin, churchill, Rosavelt......its worrying. What if people had found out during WW11 they were being lead by druggies and alcoholics.....but we shouldnt be surprised....America has a fine history of doping up its military, especially pilots.

Post by **spot** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:09 am

Clodhopper;1516543 wrote: If that's so and civilisation goes kerplumph but with survivors, then it's possible any of you with descendents could become gods in the future...

I suggest you've grasped the wrong end of the stick here. Those of us who are currently Gods will be remembered by those of our descendants who survive. That's the Viking model. Speaking as one who qualifies I can't see how it could be refuted.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:35 am

spot;1517048 wrote: I suggest you've grasped the wrong end of the stick here. Those of us who are currently Gods will be remembered by those of our descendants who survive. That's the Viking model. Speaking as one who qualifies I can't see how it could be refuted.

I think that makes Genghis Khan Top God, then...