Was Katrina Sent by God?

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 11:26 am

Below is one man's view of why Katrina hit where she did. There are others who say she was aimed directly at the decadence of N.O. by God. There are also other people who's position is that it was the hand of God but for different reasons or that the damage was greater because N.O.s priorities were on sinful activities. There are also those who say God would never do such a thing or that God doesn't control the weather.

I think this could be a great discussion by great people who respect each other's beliefs.

FROM WND'S JERUSALEM BUREAU

Israeli spiritual leader: Katrina punishment for Gaza evac

Blames disaster on Bush's support of Jewish withdrawal

Posted: September 8, 2005

9:40 a.m. Eastern

By Aaron Klein

Ã‚© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com

JERUSALEM Ã¢â‚¬“ Hurricane Katrina, which some say bears striking similarities to recent events in Israel, was punishment from God for President Bush's support of the evacuation of Jews from the Gaza Strip, a senior Israeli rabbi announced.

""It was God's retribution Ã¢â‚¬“ God does not short-change anyone," said Shas spiritual leader Rabbi Ovadia Yosef during his weekly sermon.

Shas is the largest Orthodox Jewish political party in Israel.

"[Bush] perpetrated the expulsion [of Jews from Gaza]," Yosef said. "Now everyone is mad at him. This is his punishment for what he did to Gush Katif, and everyone else who did as he told them, their time will come, too."

One week before Katrina made landfall, Israel carried out the evacuation of 9,500 residents from Gaza's Gush Katif slate of Jewish neighborhoods and four Samaria communities. Residents were forced from their homes by Israeli troops, some dragged away kicking and screaming and placed on buses that took them from the area. The majority of former Katif residents are homeless while the Israeli government struggles to find permanent housing solutions.

The Gaza withdrawal was backed by the U.S. government. Some Middle East analysts and senior Israeli politicians entirely attributed the evacuation plan to pressure coming from the American establishment.

Several Israeli leaders blasted Yosef's comments. Knesset Member Ronnie Brizon of the leftist Shinui party said, "What, God is cross-eyed? He metes out punishments at the wrong place? We're sick and tired of Rabbi Ovadia's primitive worldview. He already did his part; he can remove himself from public life."

Yosef is no stranger to controversy. He recently declared God would strike dead "the evil one" responsible for the Gaza evacuation, referring to Sharon. He also once called on the Israeli army to "joyfully" annihilate Arabs with rockets, and prompted calls for his resignation in 2000 when he stated the 6 million Jews killed in the Holocaust died because they were reincarnations of sinners in previous generations.

But Yosef is not alone in highlighting what some are calling eerie similarities between Katrina and the evacuation of Gush Katif.

As WND reported, parallels in the two events' repercussions, names and numbers have started a firestorm of speculation on the Internet and even in some synagogues. Similarities pointed out include:

More:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/artic ... E_ID=46220

minks · Post by **minks** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 11:31 am

I mean no disrespect to beleivers of the faith but...

I wonder when we will see the face of the all mighty in the mud of the aftermath and how much it will go for on ebay?

abbey · Post by **abbey** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 11:33 am

No disrespect, but what a load of codswallop!

minks · Post by **minks** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 11:41 am

abbey wrote: No disrespect, but what a load of codswallop!
Yes that too.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 11:46 am

abbey wrote: No disrespect, but what a load of codswallop!

"codswallop"... what is that?:)

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 12:21 pm

ArnoldLayne wrote: Its odd because many muslims thought the same about the Tsunami when that happened. Probably do about this too.

I'm not a christian but like to think I have good christian- like values. To me the very thought that a caring, forgiving God would kill 10,000 innocents is a vile belief. It digusts me. Thats not the God I was taught to believe in when I was young.
That is an argument we often hear. It doesnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t make sense to me. As I understand it, God gives life and God takes it. All of us die one day. I believe God decides what day, what time and in what way we will die.

Death is looked upon as a terrible thing by us. I think the only reason it is considered a terrible thing is that God created us with a will to survive. I believe that death to God is merely a transition. The time and way we die seems random to us. If it didnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t seem random we would order our lives around the day we were scheduled to die.

Believing that God controls natural disasters is completely consistent with my belief that God is a merciful God. Knowing the mind of God and whether or not Katrina was sent to N.O. for a specific reason is beyond my ability as a human being.

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 12:30 pm

It's that BLAME thing again....events like this were happening on earth when man was just a single cell....(sorry to those who believe that we all came from Adam and Eve.)

If you believe in Heaven and Hell then surely this is the DEVILS work.

This good old earth has been spinning for millions of years and in that time there have been millions of catastrophes....it's NATURE...

My answer to the question - In my opinion Katrina was NOT sent by God

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 12:37 pm

Clint wrote: That is an argument we often hear. It doesnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t make sense to me. As I understand it, God gives life and God takes it. All of us die one day. I believe God decides what day, what time and in what way we will die.

Death is looked upon as a terrible thing by us. I think the only reason it is considered a terrible thing is that God created us with a will to survive. I believe that death to God is merely a transition. The time and way we die seems random to us. If it didnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t seem random we would order our lives around the day we were scheduled to die.

Believing that God controls natural disasters is completely consistent with my belief that God is a merciful God. Knowing the mind of God and whether or not Katrina was sent to N.O. for a specific reason is beyond my ability as a human being.

I was bought up as a Christian and have lived my life by the 10 Commandments. I have recently been studying Buddhism, but not long enough to put a Buddhist point of view to the question. I do know that Buddhists have no fear of Death. It would be interesting to have a Buddhist point of view if we have one in the garden...or any other religion come to that.

Kathy · Post by **Kathy** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 12:43 pm

I haven't yet decided what I think about this. However, here is one "theory" that I have heard repeated by some....again, not saying I agree or disagree, just passing this along.

"God wants us to be in a closer relationship with Him and not separated by sin. As written in the Bible, he sends us warning after warning that He does not approve of the decadent lifestyle of His created people. The book of Isaiah is full of examples of how God's people turned away from Him and time and time again were defeated by armies of their enemies. Each time, some would turn back to God, only to eventually be tempted by earthly pleasures (provided by Satan) and turn away yet again. God tells us repeatedly that the final days are coming and to be ready. The book of Revelation is John's vision of the final days.

Look at very recent history. The earthquake in Northridge, California. Northridge is the very center of porographic activity. Look at Sri Lanka...known for heroin and widespread prostition.

Now, look at New Orleans. Mardi Gras is a time of wild sexual and other immorality and the location of the followers of voodoo and other occults.

Is God sending His people a message? Are we being told once again by our Creator that we need to 'get our acts together' before He unleashes His total wrath on our sin?"

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 12:46 pm

ArnoldLayne wrote: Exactly, we all die sometime, or a transtion if you like . Then why should a merciful God come and take that 10,000 before they are gonna die anyway.

This is wicked. I'd much rather hear from you that it was the work of the devil.

I'm still digusted !!!!
It may be exactly as you say, "the work of the devil". On the other hand, why would ending the life of 10,000 at once be any different than 10,000 in one day at different times and different locations?

Suppose God said to himself; "things are out of control in N.O.. Peoples lives are being ruined by their behavior...I can't stand to see them suffering like that...pretty soon they will all be on meth or selling thier bodies." Suppose he decided it was better to take 10,000 home at one time to protect them and send a message?

abbey · Post by **abbey** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:22 pm

Clint wrote: "codswallop"... what is that?:)Rubbish.

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:24 pm

Kathy wrote: I haven't yet decided what I think about this. However, here is one "theory" that I have heard repeated by some....again, not saying I agree or disagree, just passing this along.

"God wants us to be in a closer relationship with Him and not separated by sin. As written in the Bible, he sends us warning after warning that He does not approve of the decadent lifestyle of His created people. The book of Isaiah is full of examples of how God's people turned away from Him and time and time again were defeated by armies of their enemies. Each time, some would turn back to God, only to eventually be tempted by earthly pleasures (provided by Satan) and turn away yet again. God tells us repeatedly that the final days are coming and to be ready. The book of Revelation is John's vision of the final days.

Look at very recent history. The earthquake in Northridge, California. Northridge is the very center of porographic activity. Look at Sri Lanka...known for heroin and widespread prostition.

Now, look at New Orleans. Mardi Gras is a time of wild sexual and other immorality and the location of the followers of voodoo and other occults.

Is God sending His people a message? Are we being told once again by our Creator that we need to 'get our acts together' before He unleashes His total wrath on our sin?"

As I have said in another thread.....we need some opinions from people of other religions....Christianity is not the only religion in the world after all.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:26 pm

abbey wrote: Rubbish.

I thought it was probably something like that. Is it a term that's considered common where you are?

abbey · Post by **abbey** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:32 pm

Clint wrote: I thought it was probably something like that. Is it a term that's considered common where you are?I would'nt say it was common, its a word my mum used to use.

http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/ ... codswallop

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:32 pm

flopstock wrote: then it should have happened at mardi gras time.
I'm not pretending to know when it should have happened or if it should have happened. I'm only saying that God could do it for very good reasons and still be a merciful God.

I'm out of here for a while. I have some things I have to get done.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:34 pm

abbey wrote: I would'nt say it was common, its a word my mum used to use.
Our mothers leave us with things like that don't they. God bless them.:wah:

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:36 pm

God's plan is so infinite and complicated, it cannot be comprehended by the mind of mankind.

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:40 pm

parago wrote:

Oh, and I'm an agnostic atheist - is that 'different' enough?

lol...so you believe there's no God, but if there was one, you still wouldn't believe in him?

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:41 pm

parago wrote: I say no, the weather is to blame, not 'God', not Bush, not the hairspray boom of the eighties.

Oh, and I'm an agnostic atheist - is that 'different' enough?
:yh_clap :yh_clap

Bravo, parago, Bravo!!! Holy crap, blame the weather. What a novel, confounding suggestion. Really quite profound!!! :yh_bigsmi

Welcome to FG!! :yh_peace

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:43 pm

parago wrote: I say no, the weather is to blame, not 'God', not Bush, not the hairspray boom of the eighties.

Oh, and I'm an agnostic atheist - is that 'different' enough?

Sure is !

valerie · Post by **valerie** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:48 pm

parago wrote: Well.. suppose he's gettin older, too.. :p

:yh_rotfl

Jewish-descent agnostic, here.

Kathy · Post by **Kathy** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 2:15 pm

Suppose God said to himself; "things are out of control in N.O.. Peoples lives are being ruined by their behavior...I can't stand to see them suffering like that...pretty soon they will all be on meth or selling thier bodies." Suppose he decided it was better to take 10,000 home at one time to protect them and send a message

Just another idea: Remember the Flood and Noah? God promised to never send another one to destroy all living things. Well, if this was God at work, He did keep His promise, but He sure did come close to the line!

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 2:19 pm

Or suppose God thought, "My children are losing sight of what's important. I'll send a catastrophe so that they will work together, and remember how precious this life is."

See what I mean? There are an infinite number of interpretations.:-2

And the reality is greater and more intricate than anything we can imagine.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 2:42 pm

parago wrote: I knooow. I thought long and hard about it before I came to this profound conclusion. Gotta get me some Advil now. :driving:
:yh_rotfl

Hope you didn't strain your brain too bad!!

:yh_rotfl

telaquapacky · Post by **telaquapacky** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 3:07 pm

New Orleans was not struck because it is any more sinful than any other city.

Luke 13:1-5

There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

However, the flooding and the great loss of life was the result of sin

James 4:17

Anyone, then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn't do it, sins.

It has been known for some time that a category 4 or 5 hurricane could happen at any time, and that the levees that protected the city were only sufficient for a category 3. Someone knew what needed to be done and didn't do it- probably local officials. Their sin of omission resulted in the deaths of thousands of people. I call that sin.:-1

Tell you what else. I think the above is agreeable whether you believe in a God or not.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 3:31 pm

telaquapacky wrote: New Orleans was not struck because it is any more sinful than any other city.

Luke 13:1-5

There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

However, the flooding and the great loss of life was the result of sin

James 4:17

Anyone, then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn't do it, sins.

It has been known for some time that a category 4 or 5 hurricane could happen at any time, and that the levees that protected the city were only sufficient for a category 3. Someone knew what needed to be done and didn't do it- probably local officials. Their sin of omission resulted in the deaths of thousands of people. I call that sin.:-1

Tell you what else. I think the above is agreeable whether you believe in a God or not.
I'm not taking issue with your conclusion. It may be valid. The verse you cite doesn't bring me to that conclusion though.

Jesus said that if they didnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t repent they would likewise perish. That means that if they wouldnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t turn away from their sinful ways they would face what the Galilaeans faced. It could be argued that N.O. was unrepentant. It could also be argued that many cities are the same way and didnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t experience the same treatment. Maybe they are to learn from N.O.?

Another way to look at it:

It has been known that a cat 4 or 5 was going to hit the south east coast. N.O. didnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t prepare for it. They spent the money and recourses on other things. Maybe they brought the disaster on themselves by ignoring GodÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s law. If you love your neighbor as yourself you do what you can to keep them safe. By ignoring that law, and putting their neighbors and the people they had responsibility for at risk, they brought the problem on themselves, as surely as the law of gravity will cause you pain if you drop a large rock on your foot.

Skeeter · Post by **Skeeter** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 5:03 pm

As to whether God would take an innocent as well as a sinner is sort of clarified in the Bible in Matthew 5:45........ok? The problem here is that you have to believe in the Bible in the first place....now forgive me, I have to go, my gills are itching.

Skeeter · Post by **Skeeter** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 5:14 pm

meant to mention...were you aware that this was the 34th annual "Southern Decadence"....it brought in much revenue and so was tolerated and celebrated the doors were wide open to public celebration of sin. .. it was an annual homosexual celebration attracting tens of thousands of people to the French quaarters sectiion of New Orleans....

According to one report New Orleans is the capital city of Spiritists, the Theosophical Society and the main center of Voodoo in America...from 2005 REPENT AMERICA , contacat webmaster with questions or comments. annual Southern Decadence event was set for August 31,2005 through Monday Sept.5....but due to hurricane had to be cancelled....

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 5:34 pm

parago wrote: Soo.. just out of curiosity.. the folks who indeed do[B/] believe it was God's work what happened in New Orleans.. Combined with Jesse Jackson's theory.. does that imply that God has something against the African-American Community? Or was that just coincidence? Or a flaw in the plan? Or what? Wouldn't it be more 'politically correct' to flood NYC or L.A. or something like that?

*confused
Now there's an angle I hadn't thought of: GOD'S the big racist here!!! Of course! It makes all kinds of sense now!!! :yh_eyebro :yh_rotfl

Skeeter · Post by **Skeeter** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 6:11 pm

Y'know, somehow I don't think God is too interested in whether He is politically correct or not...

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 6:16 pm

parago wrote: Soo.. just out of curiosity.. the folks who indeed do[B/] believe it was God's work what happened in New Orleans.. Combined with Jesse Jackson's theory.. does that imply that God has something against the African-American Community? Or was that just coincidence? Or a flaw in the plan? Or what? Wouldn't it be more 'politically correct' to flood NYC or L.A. or something like that?

Parago...your mocking tone implies your lack of experience in life. When you get a little older or have a nice close brush with your own mortality, you'll take a different tone.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 7:08 pm

Skeeter wrote: Y'know, somehow I don't think God is too interested in whether He is politically correct or not...
I wouldn't know, I'm agnostic, and rarely PC.

What I find humorous about this whole thing is that people, once again, are looking for a place to lay blame, a direction to point fingers. People...it was a hurricane. A cat. 5 hurricane, a natural occurence. Tragic? Yes. Deadly? Unfortunately. But where do you point a finger? The weatherman? God? The tides? The moons gravitational pull in relation to the earth? This ceaseless need to blame someone or something is almost laughable.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 7:13 pm

My understanding of God does not permit me to see this as some God created event. In fact it was ind is a perfectly natural event. It has nothing whatsoever to do with people anywhere unless of course we consider the human factor in global warming.

Shalom

Ted

actionfigurestepho · Post by **actionfigurestepho** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 7:27 pm

We're awfully egocentric as humans, aren't we? How did we cause this, which person is in charge, where can we find a good scapegoat? I think the reason we always want to blame people is because that's at least some form of control. And if we can control the blame we believe that maybe we can control the events.

I agree with BR, as I often do.

Weather sucks and often times has nothing to do with us.

It teaches us to take note and get out of the way! Next time there will be better levees, a faster and more thorough evacuation. A better plan.

And as a God-Believer, I belive that if God's gonna do some smiting of The Wicked, we're darn well gonna know it! There will be no room for debate.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 8:48 pm

Some have said they believed that God had promised never to use a flood again. As you can see from the only reference we have to His promise, He said water would never become a flood to destroy ALL life again.

Gen. 9:15 (NIV) I will remember my covenant between me and you and all living creatures of every kind. Never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life. 16 Whenever the rainbow appears in the clouds, I will see it and remember the everlasting covenant between God and all living creatures of every kind on the earth."

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:05 pm

Skeeter wrote: meant to mention...were you aware that this was the 34th annual "Southern Decadence"....it brought in much revenue and so was tolerated and celebrated the doors were wide open to public celebration of sin. .. it was an annual homosexual celebration attracting tens of thousands of people to the French quaarters sectiion of New Orleans....

According to one report New Orleans is the capital city of Spiritists, the Theosophical Society and the main center of Voodoo in America...from 2005 REPENT AMERICA , contacat webmaster with questions or comments. annual Southern Decadence event was set for August 31,2005 through Monday Sept.5....but due to hurricane had to be cancelled....
They actully had as scaled down decadence event after the flood. Wow!!!

Skeeter · Post by **Skeeter** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 11:47 pm

I didn't know that....some people will just NOT give it a rest, huh ?

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 1:24 am

So what about all the drought in Africa? What has god got against them? I suppose if you can believe you are god's chosen people you can believe anything. If god made all mankind who is to say he has a favourite?

Religious fundamentalists of any stripe should just be ignored before they drag us all in to conflict. Maybe god is dropping a heavy hint that the planet is a small place and we should stop squabbling with each other.

codswallop indeed.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 5:14 am

I'm too close to this to be objective. My jaw hurts and I think I cracked a molar.

I invite anyone to come to San Antonio to meet the evil sinners deserving of such punishment face to face. I'll introduce you.

PurpleChicken · Post by **PurpleChicken** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 6:36 am

BabyRider wrote: I wouldn't know, I'm agnostic, and rarely PC.

What I find humorous about this whole thing is that people, once again, are looking for a place to lay blame, a direction to point fingers. People...it was a hurricane. A cat. 5 hurricane, a natural occurence. Tragic? Yes. Deadly? Unfortunately. But where do you point a finger? The weatherman? God? The tides? The moons gravitational pull in relation to the earth? This ceaseless need to blame someone or something is almost laughable.

Agree totally BR. Why can't we just accept that these things happen.

I find it hard to belive that Katrina was sent by God. That it is a natural part of the world that God has created - yes. But not an intentional hit on a community.