QUINNSCOMMENTARY;1047146 wrote: Quite a bit more than 51% of the vote in my view. The last time the Republicans had such a sweep they acted like idiots as if they had a mandate and could do anything they wanted, that lasted only a few years and whack, the mandate evaporated.
So what's a President to do if he only manages to get 7 million more votes than his competitor? Freeze all government activities until the next election in four years?
I can't see how he can attempt to only implement consensus policies because there are no consensus policies. The only policies he can attempt are either his own or the Republican manifesto. Which should he choose?
How about if he brings in a couple of Republican Senators into his Cabinet? Would that help?
A mandate to govern is provided, in your first-past-the-post per State system, by a majority of one vote in the Electoral College. You could always attempt to change the electoral system but those were the rules he was voted in by. Other systems give other results. Yours is what it is. The mandate to govern has been handed to the man and he's going to use it.
Thank you America.
Thank you America.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. ... Hold no regard for unsupported opinion.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Thank you America.
Jump Galbally's butt?? Good god man, we don't do that over here, its illegal.
Galbally wrote that. That, is the joke of the freaking century. My sides hurt from laughter.:wah::wah::wah:
Galbally wrote that. That, is the joke of the freaking century. My sides hurt from laughter.:wah::wah::wah:
Thank you America.
QUINNSCOMMENTARY;1047146 wrote: Quite a bit more than 51% of the vote in my view. The last time the Republicans had such a sweep they acted like idiots as if they had a mandate and could do anything they wanted, that lasted only a few years and whack, the mandate evaporated.
Here you are, sorted by popular majority in each national election rather than by Electoral College votes. Draw a line for me, which Presidents had a mandate to govern? What should the ones who didn't make your cut have done instead?
Attached files
Here you are, sorted by popular majority in each national election rather than by Electoral College votes. Draw a line for me, which Presidents had a mandate to govern? What should the ones who didn't make your cut have done instead?
Attached files
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. ... Hold no regard for unsupported opinion.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Thank you America.
Hoss;1047217 wrote: President Bush was anything but weak. Barack Obama will be weak because he wants to sit down and negotiate with terror groups.There are no terror groups, there are merely different wings of American Foreign Policy.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. ... Hold no regard for unsupported opinion.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Thank you America.
It's a list. I could make a list of breweries and declare it's my list of terrorist organizations. Whose list is that? Whoever made the list, it's a bunch or organizations which have annoyed them at some stage. Some of them probably even kill people. I'd call it a list of criminal organizations, at most.
You've got Hamas on there, and Hisbollah, and the Iranian Revolutionary Guard. It's a political list. I'd be unhappy if those three weren't active on behalf of their peoples.
You've got Hamas on there, and Hisbollah, and the Iranian Revolutionary Guard. It's a political list. I'd be unhappy if those three weren't active on behalf of their peoples.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. ... Hold no regard for unsupported opinion.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
-
chonsigirl
- Posts: 33633
- Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:28 am
Thank you America.
JAB;1047144 wrote:
I'll need to see some action and progress before I can fully jump on the Obama train.
Yes, that's what I feel like. I'm still not impressed by his platform, since it doesn't align with what I think. So I'm at the train station waiting, to be impressed. (yes Nomad, I am still not impressed yet)
He won the highest office in the land, let's see what he can do with it.
I'll need to see some action and progress before I can fully jump on the Obama train.
Yes, that's what I feel like. I'm still not impressed by his platform, since it doesn't align with what I think. So I'm at the train station waiting, to be impressed. (yes Nomad, I am still not impressed yet)
He won the highest office in the land, let's see what he can do with it.
Thank you America.
Hoss;1047254 wrote: I'm done, your being childish.
Who else would look out for the interests of the Palestinians and Lebanese without those three groups?
The trouble is that many Americans have this simplistic idea that Palestinians are bad people who deserve to be crammed into the Gaza Strip and shot at rather than negotiated with. One day the negotiators will be allowed enough authority to fix the problems. All these decades of shooting haven't worked, and nor should they have worked either. The imposed solutions have so far lacked fairness.
As for the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, I truly can't realize why it is that the US doesn't recognise the Iranians as their natural allies in that part of the world and just make up and be friendly. Forty years of having the hump because of an embassy seige is almost as petulant as the Cuba embargo.
Who else would look out for the interests of the Palestinians and Lebanese without those three groups?
The trouble is that many Americans have this simplistic idea that Palestinians are bad people who deserve to be crammed into the Gaza Strip and shot at rather than negotiated with. One day the negotiators will be allowed enough authority to fix the problems. All these decades of shooting haven't worked, and nor should they have worked either. The imposed solutions have so far lacked fairness.
As for the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, I truly can't realize why it is that the US doesn't recognise the Iranians as their natural allies in that part of the world and just make up and be friendly. Forty years of having the hump because of an embassy seige is almost as petulant as the Cuba embargo.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. ... Hold no regard for unsupported opinion.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Thank you America.
Hoss;1046423 wrote: I'm still in shock.
I haven't got a handle yet on what this means and I'm not the kind of guy that takes defeat so graciously when it means I may be forced to compromise my morals.
The direction President elect Barack Obama will take this country is the opposite direction of the road I travel on. But he is the Elected President, and I will defend his office. But I cannot agree with him.
I think Sir Hoppy is right. More abortions will happen, our rights will be dwindled away, he will increase our taxes, weaken a strong military and hand out billions a year to people who could probably help themselves but are too lazy to do so.
We will hear nothing but 'green' dogma, and we will never drill for domestic oil now, not under a democrat controlled Presidency and congress. And to top it all off the democrats handed themselves a blank 700 billion chunk of taxpayer’s money (borrowed tax payers money) for them to spend to get started with.
I must say that America made a very short sighted decision in electing Barack Obama. The democrat’s will hold ALL the power, in a representative government, which after being elected the people will have zero power for four years.
I feel like I have been set in a prison with a four year time lock on the door and fearfully wonder if they won't come back after four years and simply reset the time lock for four more.
The only bright side for this election is that CA voters passed a state constitutional amendment banning same sex marriage. However I fully expect our attorney general Jerry Brown to find a way to block even that.
:(
Ya got me a little confussed there young man??
First red note talks about taking away rights, second note is telling me it's right to take away others rights??
I am with Galbally, as your neighbor to the North I am thrilled to hear about your new president.
I haven't got a handle yet on what this means and I'm not the kind of guy that takes defeat so graciously when it means I may be forced to compromise my morals.
The direction President elect Barack Obama will take this country is the opposite direction of the road I travel on. But he is the Elected President, and I will defend his office. But I cannot agree with him.
I think Sir Hoppy is right. More abortions will happen, our rights will be dwindled away, he will increase our taxes, weaken a strong military and hand out billions a year to people who could probably help themselves but are too lazy to do so.
We will hear nothing but 'green' dogma, and we will never drill for domestic oil now, not under a democrat controlled Presidency and congress. And to top it all off the democrats handed themselves a blank 700 billion chunk of taxpayer’s money (borrowed tax payers money) for them to spend to get started with.
I must say that America made a very short sighted decision in electing Barack Obama. The democrat’s will hold ALL the power, in a representative government, which after being elected the people will have zero power for four years.
I feel like I have been set in a prison with a four year time lock on the door and fearfully wonder if they won't come back after four years and simply reset the time lock for four more.
The only bright side for this election is that CA voters passed a state constitutional amendment banning same sex marriage. However I fully expect our attorney general Jerry Brown to find a way to block even that.
:(
Ya got me a little confussed there young man??
First red note talks about taking away rights, second note is telling me it's right to take away others rights??
I am with Galbally, as your neighbor to the North I am thrilled to hear about your new president.
�You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough.�
• Mae West
• Mae West
Thank you America.
Hoss;1046423 wrote: I'm still in shock.
I haven't got a handle yet on what this means and I'm not the kind of guy that takes defeat so graciously when it means I may be forced to compromise my morals.
The direction President elect Barack Obama will take this country is the opposite direction of the road I travel on. But he is the Elected President, and I will defend his office. But I cannot agree with him.
I think Sir Hoppy is right. More abortions will happen, our rights will be dwindled away, he will increase our taxes, weaken a strong military and hand out billions a year to people who could probably help themselves but are too lazy to do so.
We will hear nothing but 'green' dogma, and we will never drill for domestic oil now, not under a democrat controlled Presidency and congress. And to top it all off the democrats handed themselves a blank 700 billion chunk of taxpayer’s money (borrowed tax payers money) for them to spend to get started with.
I must say that America made a very short sighted decision in electing Barack Obama. The democrat’s will hold ALL the power, in a representative government, which after being elected the people will have zero power for four years.
I feel like I have been set in a prison with a four year time lock on the door and fearfully wonder if they won't come back after four years and simply reset the time lock for four more.
The only bright side for this election is that CA voters passed a state constitutional amendment banning same sex marriage. However I fully expect our attorney general Jerry Brown to find a way to block even that.
Oh but your are, have your forgotten that state to the north called North Dakota and the Bakken Basin, that comes in second to the Alberta Oil sands in Crude supply and you americans are right there with us doing a mighty fine job with the directional drilling techniques. That basin can sustain America for about 41 years... it's a slow go through that shale bed that rests on that basin but that crude is attainable and your president is not stopping that drilling.
I haven't got a handle yet on what this means and I'm not the kind of guy that takes defeat so graciously when it means I may be forced to compromise my morals.
The direction President elect Barack Obama will take this country is the opposite direction of the road I travel on. But he is the Elected President, and I will defend his office. But I cannot agree with him.
I think Sir Hoppy is right. More abortions will happen, our rights will be dwindled away, he will increase our taxes, weaken a strong military and hand out billions a year to people who could probably help themselves but are too lazy to do so.
We will hear nothing but 'green' dogma, and we will never drill for domestic oil now, not under a democrat controlled Presidency and congress. And to top it all off the democrats handed themselves a blank 700 billion chunk of taxpayer’s money (borrowed tax payers money) for them to spend to get started with.
I must say that America made a very short sighted decision in electing Barack Obama. The democrat’s will hold ALL the power, in a representative government, which after being elected the people will have zero power for four years.
I feel like I have been set in a prison with a four year time lock on the door and fearfully wonder if they won't come back after four years and simply reset the time lock for four more.
The only bright side for this election is that CA voters passed a state constitutional amendment banning same sex marriage. However I fully expect our attorney general Jerry Brown to find a way to block even that.
Oh but your are, have your forgotten that state to the north called North Dakota and the Bakken Basin, that comes in second to the Alberta Oil sands in Crude supply and you americans are right there with us doing a mighty fine job with the directional drilling techniques. That basin can sustain America for about 41 years... it's a slow go through that shale bed that rests on that basin but that crude is attainable and your president is not stopping that drilling.
�You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough.�
• Mae West
• Mae West
Thank you America.
:wah:hoppy;1047161 wrote: Jump Galbally's butt?? Good god man, we don't do that over here, its illegal.
Galbally wrote that. That, is the joke of the freaking century. My sides hurt from laughter.:wah::wah::wah:
Well............. it was illegal until 1908.
Its good to laugh though init? :wah:
Galbally wrote that. That, is the joke of the freaking century. My sides hurt from laughter.:wah::wah::wah:
Well............. it was illegal until 1908.
Its good to laugh though init? :wah:
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Thank you America.
Galbally;1047382 wrote: :wah:
Well............. it was illegal until 1908. :oTurn around a few times slowly, I might change my mind. Shimmy a bit.
Well............. it was illegal until 1908. :oTurn around a few times slowly, I might change my mind. Shimmy a bit.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. ... Hold no regard for unsupported opinion.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Thank you America.
Hoss;1047217 wrote: President Bush was anything but weak. Barack Obama will be weak because he wants to sit down and negotiate with terror groups.
Islam wants you and I dead, enslaved or bowing 5 times a day towards Mecca.
If you don't use force to over come that ideology you will be bowing 5 times a day toward Mecca, or enslaved.
There is no negotiation. He will only prolong the war to eliminate them and more innocent people will die horrible torturous deaths.
Hoss if Bush was so strong, why is America not stronger and safer now then when he took office?
You completely missed the point. I am not disputing the need to use force, or fight ones enemies, I am saying that you need to use your power wisely and to your own best advantage, not play for the gallery at home.
In another post you listed out about 60 terrorist (or alleged terrorist groups) you are saying that Obama is weak because he will "negotoiate with terror groups". I see no evidence of him doing that, certainly not Al Queda, what is there to negotiate? They have no platform, no mandate they are not a state, their aims are insane, they are our enemies and have declared themselves at war, and we are at war with them there is no negotation with such people.
However, if we want to win this war, we have to talk to someone in the Muslim world, (and not hector them, talk to them) unless you are suggesting that it will be possible to occupy the middle east, and force its inhabitants to do what we want, and also give us their oil, across the region in its entirity forever. Islamic extremism is a Muslim problem, and it will only really ever be solved when the moderate Muslims take back the agenda from the extremists, some of that involves fighting sure; but we won't aid that process if we don't act wisely and build alliances instead of tearing them down.
So, no talking to Al Queda, fine; however, thats one group, are you suggesting that you can never talk to any terrorist group from any country at any time? This isn't a movie, your not in a posse, you don't have the resources to fight every group, state, and ideology at the same time, no one does, that is folly. In war talking is a necessary and useful tactic, you use it when you have to.
The object is to win the war, not impress everyone with how macho you are swaggering about the place, and at the moment the West is not winning this war, and our power is hemoraging away in economic meltdown and military stalemate, now Iran and Russia sense weakness and are moving into the game, its a truly dangerous moment.
Thats the legacy of Bush, sure he was prepared to use force, great, but his Administration didn't use it wisely and thats the problem.
Islam wants you and I dead, enslaved or bowing 5 times a day towards Mecca.
If you don't use force to over come that ideology you will be bowing 5 times a day toward Mecca, or enslaved.
There is no negotiation. He will only prolong the war to eliminate them and more innocent people will die horrible torturous deaths.
Hoss if Bush was so strong, why is America not stronger and safer now then when he took office?
You completely missed the point. I am not disputing the need to use force, or fight ones enemies, I am saying that you need to use your power wisely and to your own best advantage, not play for the gallery at home.
In another post you listed out about 60 terrorist (or alleged terrorist groups) you are saying that Obama is weak because he will "negotoiate with terror groups". I see no evidence of him doing that, certainly not Al Queda, what is there to negotiate? They have no platform, no mandate they are not a state, their aims are insane, they are our enemies and have declared themselves at war, and we are at war with them there is no negotation with such people.
However, if we want to win this war, we have to talk to someone in the Muslim world, (and not hector them, talk to them) unless you are suggesting that it will be possible to occupy the middle east, and force its inhabitants to do what we want, and also give us their oil, across the region in its entirity forever. Islamic extremism is a Muslim problem, and it will only really ever be solved when the moderate Muslims take back the agenda from the extremists, some of that involves fighting sure; but we won't aid that process if we don't act wisely and build alliances instead of tearing them down.
So, no talking to Al Queda, fine; however, thats one group, are you suggesting that you can never talk to any terrorist group from any country at any time? This isn't a movie, your not in a posse, you don't have the resources to fight every group, state, and ideology at the same time, no one does, that is folly. In war talking is a necessary and useful tactic, you use it when you have to.
The object is to win the war, not impress everyone with how macho you are swaggering about the place, and at the moment the West is not winning this war, and our power is hemoraging away in economic meltdown and military stalemate, now Iran and Russia sense weakness and are moving into the game, its a truly dangerous moment.
Thats the legacy of Bush, sure he was prepared to use force, great, but his Administration didn't use it wisely and thats the problem.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Thank you America.
spot;1047385 wrote: Turn around a few times slowly, I might change my mind. Shimmy a bit.
Naughty spot. :rolleyes:
Naughty spot. :rolleyes:
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Thank you America.
Anyway look I didn't want to turn this thread into another endless debate about US foreign policy, there is enough of that stuff on here, and its endless. I was making a positive point about US Democracy, and I still think that the act of electing a mixed race man as the President of the United States was a symbolic act of great power, and you should be congratulated on the health and strength of American democracy, which has always been the true source of American strength and happiness. :-6
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
-
ProfessorG
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:20 am
Thank you America.
:guitarist
After 8 years in darkness, we walk in the light. A great time to be an American. Have any of you seen the You Tube Music Video 'OBAMA GIRL"S MAMA?'
Pretty damn funny and pretty hot too.
I'd put in the link, but I'm too new to be able to do that, so go to You Tube and just type in the title. You will not be disappointed.
After 8 years in darkness, we walk in the light. A great time to be an American. Have any of you seen the You Tube Music Video 'OBAMA GIRL"S MAMA?'
Pretty damn funny and pretty hot too.
I'd put in the link, but I'm too new to be able to do that, so go to You Tube and just type in the title. You will not be disappointed.
Thank you America.
Galbally;1047391 wrote: So, no talking to Al Queda, fine; however, thats one group, are you suggesting that you can never talk to any terrorist group from any country at any time? This isn't a movie, your not in a posse, you don't have the resources to fight every group, state, and ideology at the same time, no one does, that is folly. In war talking is a necessary and useful tactic, you use it when you have to. And yet to see them as an enemy is just one viewpoint.
Back in 2000 there were three isolated bunches of people who wanted Western Armed Forces fighting Arabs in the Middle East. There was PNAC - their manifesto says exactly that and bemoans the need for "a new Pearl Harbor" to mobilize the country onto a war footing; there was Obama bin Laden who wanted his own countrymen politicized and radicalised so that his fundamentalist interpretations of Islam could be more readily imposed on Islamic countries; and there was the half-mad messianic Tony Blair eager to overthrow dictators and spread Western democratic values worldwide.
All three of those groups had an identical result in view. Osama bin Laden undoubtedly sent people to hijack aircraft to fly them into buildings. Tony Blair undoubtedly forced his security services into producing biased and in some instances knowingly false reports on WMD. George Bush did the same to his CIA and got the same lies to work with. Colin Powell swallowed bile and read out the lies to the United Nations. They only deployed by walking away from the UN empty-handed and going in unilaterally.
So, in what way was Al Qaida the enemy? It provided an excuse that was eagerly being sought. Deployment couldn't have taken place without the provocation. The influence of Al Qaida has risen a thousand-fold as a result - Osama bin Laden will die a happy man. Everyone got what they wanted.
The result has been that PNAC were utterly discredited and the US ruined by the actions of the Bush Administration. Sadly I doubt whether anyone has the balls to hold a full no-holds-barred enquiry into the debacle. I for one, given the alternatives, would rather a ruined USA than a successful PNAC implementation. Given the deployment I have no quarrel with the outcome. Iraq will go its own way once the pull-out occurs, preferably straight back to a non-aligned military dictatorship which can keep the fundamentalists under control the way it was doing before all this interference. Afghanistan lost its one great chance of development and social progress when President Reagan armed the Mujahideen through the 1980s on such a massive scale and now they're faced with the consequence. It's all payback and it's all richly deserved.
Back in 2000 there were three isolated bunches of people who wanted Western Armed Forces fighting Arabs in the Middle East. There was PNAC - their manifesto says exactly that and bemoans the need for "a new Pearl Harbor" to mobilize the country onto a war footing; there was Obama bin Laden who wanted his own countrymen politicized and radicalised so that his fundamentalist interpretations of Islam could be more readily imposed on Islamic countries; and there was the half-mad messianic Tony Blair eager to overthrow dictators and spread Western democratic values worldwide.
All three of those groups had an identical result in view. Osama bin Laden undoubtedly sent people to hijack aircraft to fly them into buildings. Tony Blair undoubtedly forced his security services into producing biased and in some instances knowingly false reports on WMD. George Bush did the same to his CIA and got the same lies to work with. Colin Powell swallowed bile and read out the lies to the United Nations. They only deployed by walking away from the UN empty-handed and going in unilaterally.
So, in what way was Al Qaida the enemy? It provided an excuse that was eagerly being sought. Deployment couldn't have taken place without the provocation. The influence of Al Qaida has risen a thousand-fold as a result - Osama bin Laden will die a happy man. Everyone got what they wanted.
The result has been that PNAC were utterly discredited and the US ruined by the actions of the Bush Administration. Sadly I doubt whether anyone has the balls to hold a full no-holds-barred enquiry into the debacle. I for one, given the alternatives, would rather a ruined USA than a successful PNAC implementation. Given the deployment I have no quarrel with the outcome. Iraq will go its own way once the pull-out occurs, preferably straight back to a non-aligned military dictatorship which can keep the fundamentalists under control the way it was doing before all this interference. Afghanistan lost its one great chance of development and social progress when President Reagan armed the Mujahideen through the 1980s on such a massive scale and now they're faced with the consequence. It's all payback and it's all richly deserved.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. ... Hold no regard for unsupported opinion.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Thank you America.
Zero tolerance on any group or country that uses terrorism. Zero negotiation. Kill everyone capable of making war no matter how long it takes or how much it cost. Any other way prolongs the inevitable and we will have to loose more of our own people to win.
Kill everyone capable of making war? Does that include everyone with a gun and a grudge? What do you define as war, or a just cause for grievance?
Are you serious?
How much time, money and blood to you think should be expended in such an enterprise? There are 300,000,000 Americans, and 5,900,000,000 of everyone else. Which ones are enemies? How many do you think you will have to kill on this endless crusade before we can all sleep safely? To me your ideas sound like something from George Orwell's "1984" where the people were kept in a perpetual state of unending war for "freedom" so that big brother could maintain control, how terrifying.
Kill everyone capable of making war? Does that include everyone with a gun and a grudge? What do you define as war, or a just cause for grievance?
Are you serious?
How much time, money and blood to you think should be expended in such an enterprise? There are 300,000,000 Americans, and 5,900,000,000 of everyone else. Which ones are enemies? How many do you think you will have to kill on this endless crusade before we can all sleep safely? To me your ideas sound like something from George Orwell's "1984" where the people were kept in a perpetual state of unending war for "freedom" so that big brother could maintain control, how terrifying.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Thank you America.
To misquote a great american.
"You can bomb all of the people some of the time,
or some of the people all of the time,
but you can't bomb all of the people, all of the time!"
:wah:
"You can bomb all of the people some of the time,
or some of the people all of the time,
but you can't bomb all of the people, all of the time!"
:wah:
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Thank you America.
Hoss;1047418 wrote: I really don't care about the symbolism, history making or not, I think all that racism stuff is just a noise maker that shows how immature people are. I care about the best man for the job and that man is NOT Barack Obama, we are going to be worse off than we are now under his leadership. His kind of change is the wrong kind of change.
But I think you're right, there isn't anything I can do about it and arguing it all over again isnt going to help. I cast my vote and it didn't count enough to get John McCain in. I think I'm still in shock. I really didn't think the typical American would believe the lies, and the money machine, and the cute sayings that really said nothing, I really thought people could see through his scripted campaign machine. And I really thought people could see the associations he made through the past 30 years as very questionable. And now we have a democrat controlled Whitehouse and congress, and that’s scary to me. That’s too much power for a representative government.
I just need to face it and realize my country is filled with left leaning liberals and I need to learn to shake my head inside and keep my mouth shut. It won’t be too long and I won’t be able to voice my opposition on things like gay marriage. Minks obviously views it as a ‘right’, if I speak out against someone rights, that’s hate speech and I can be charged as a criminal for that. That’s not the America I read about in the history books, the America in the history books says that I can voice my opinion I just can’t harm anyone. Not that I hate gays, but if I did, I do believe I still have the right to do so, as long as I don’t hurt them.
I just don’t understand how America became so socialistic and liberal.
You are entitled to your opinion, you live in a free society, and that freedom is of course also an entitlement of those you consider liberals. I don't think that American is going to be very much different than it is now in four years time to be honest, so you don't have that much to worry about.
But I think you're right, there isn't anything I can do about it and arguing it all over again isnt going to help. I cast my vote and it didn't count enough to get John McCain in. I think I'm still in shock. I really didn't think the typical American would believe the lies, and the money machine, and the cute sayings that really said nothing, I really thought people could see through his scripted campaign machine. And I really thought people could see the associations he made through the past 30 years as very questionable. And now we have a democrat controlled Whitehouse and congress, and that’s scary to me. That’s too much power for a representative government.
I just need to face it and realize my country is filled with left leaning liberals and I need to learn to shake my head inside and keep my mouth shut. It won’t be too long and I won’t be able to voice my opposition on things like gay marriage. Minks obviously views it as a ‘right’, if I speak out against someone rights, that’s hate speech and I can be charged as a criminal for that. That’s not the America I read about in the history books, the America in the history books says that I can voice my opinion I just can’t harm anyone. Not that I hate gays, but if I did, I do believe I still have the right to do so, as long as I don’t hurt them.
I just don’t understand how America became so socialistic and liberal.
You are entitled to your opinion, you live in a free society, and that freedom is of course also an entitlement of those you consider liberals. I don't think that American is going to be very much different than it is now in four years time to be honest, so you don't have that much to worry about.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Thank you America.
Nomad;1046372 wrote: Yes.
It was a most unusual day yesterday.
Standing in line waiting to vote was filled with anticipation for most. There was a buzz, people were excited and eager.
My precinct votes in a church and as I was inching forward children were playing in the grass. One mother was balancing a toddler as the little one tried to take little steps, wobbling and stepping. Her mother was beaming.
I was too.
I equated my little steps, all of our little steps, each voter that moved closer to their chance to vote all across America to that little girls steps.
We wobble and fall but we keep trying.
Im very proud of my fellow Americans today.
Thank you for the mention Dr.
Mr Obama and Mr Biden,
You looked us in the eye and you made us promises. We believed you and now you turn your lives over to a purpose greater than yourselves.
We expect the very best from you.
You have an opportunity to do remarkable things Mr. President Elect.
Do the right thing.
After having gone out earlier today(It's very late here and I'm getting ready for bed -- I've been up being excited about getting things together to go hunting) and noticed that there was alot of people out(Sort of similar to yesterday-election day- but not quite) and I honestly speak the truth when I tell you that everyone seemed very enthusiastic. I could just feel it. It's given me a very broad perspective, and it harbors that of a desire to strive towards greatness regardless of how intelligent one is. It speaks volumes about what can be as opposed to what "you'd" might expect.
For the record I thought Obama's speech had a tremendous amount of integrity behind it and I think the man is determined to better this country and I couldn't be more proud of him for it.
OBAMA 2008 -- :yh_party LOSERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...:wah:...Hehe...
:yh_loser...
:yh_rotfl...
It was a most unusual day yesterday.
Standing in line waiting to vote was filled with anticipation for most. There was a buzz, people were excited and eager.
My precinct votes in a church and as I was inching forward children were playing in the grass. One mother was balancing a toddler as the little one tried to take little steps, wobbling and stepping. Her mother was beaming.
I was too.
I equated my little steps, all of our little steps, each voter that moved closer to their chance to vote all across America to that little girls steps.
We wobble and fall but we keep trying.
Im very proud of my fellow Americans today.
Thank you for the mention Dr.
Mr Obama and Mr Biden,
You looked us in the eye and you made us promises. We believed you and now you turn your lives over to a purpose greater than yourselves.
We expect the very best from you.
You have an opportunity to do remarkable things Mr. President Elect.
Do the right thing.
After having gone out earlier today(It's very late here and I'm getting ready for bed -- I've been up being excited about getting things together to go hunting) and noticed that there was alot of people out(Sort of similar to yesterday-election day- but not quite) and I honestly speak the truth when I tell you that everyone seemed very enthusiastic. I could just feel it. It's given me a very broad perspective, and it harbors that of a desire to strive towards greatness regardless of how intelligent one is. It speaks volumes about what can be as opposed to what "you'd" might expect.
For the record I thought Obama's speech had a tremendous amount of integrity behind it and I think the man is determined to better this country and I couldn't be more proud of him for it.
OBAMA 2008 -- :yh_party LOSERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...:wah:...Hehe...
:yh_loser...
:yh_rotfl...
Thank you America.
posted by hoss
I just don’t understand how America became so socialistic and liberal.
The alternative is fascism and totalitarianism. Is that really what you would prefer? If it is at least have the honesty to say so. Liberal and liberty have the same conceptual roots roots-you can't have one without the other.
I just don’t understand how America became so socialistic and liberal.
The alternative is fascism and totalitarianism. Is that really what you would prefer? If it is at least have the honesty to say so. Liberal and liberty have the same conceptual roots roots-you can't have one without the other.
Thank you America.
Galbally;1047393 wrote: Anyway look I didn't want to turn this thread into another endless debate about US foreign policy, there is enough of that stuff on here, and its endless. I was making a positive point about US Democracy, and I still think that the act of electing a mixed race man as the President of the United States was a symbolic act of great power, and you should be congratulated on the health and strength of American democracy, which has always been the true source of American strength and happiness. :-6
Yes indeed, and I speak to all when I say this, but "you" just watch the impact this will have on African American Communities. "You" watch how all of those communities decline in crime percentages and unemployment rates all from a statement being made within a country that's seen it's far to great of a share of inequality.
"You" just damn well watch and say what's happened yesterday isn't a good thing. I dare "you"!
Yes indeed, and I speak to all when I say this, but "you" just watch the impact this will have on African American Communities. "You" watch how all of those communities decline in crime percentages and unemployment rates all from a statement being made within a country that's seen it's far to great of a share of inequality.
"You" just damn well watch and say what's happened yesterday isn't a good thing. I dare "you"!
Thank you America.
Hoss;1047418 wrote: I just don’t understand how America became so socialistic and liberal.
Because "Socialism" is the most empathetic governmental ideology in human nature.
I'd call it a compliment to the intellects of all those plying for it.
Because "Socialism" is the most empathetic governmental ideology in human nature.
I'd call it a compliment to the intellects of all those plying for it.
Thank you America.
K.Snyder;1047431 wrote: "You" just damn well watch and say what's happened yesterday isn't a good thing. I dare "you"!When I think of who he's replacing I wonder how simple-minded George ever attracted anyone. Maybe his ability to lie and not even know he was lying had something to do with it. He simply hadn't a clue about so many things.
Do you remember him addressing the Japanese Parliament? I'd love to know what the Japanese MPs made of it:For a century and a half now, America and Japan have formed one of the great and enduring alliances of modern times. From that alliance has come an era of peace in the Pacific.How could the world deal with someone that ignorant?
Do you remember him addressing the Japanese Parliament? I'd love to know what the Japanese MPs made of it:For a century and a half now, America and Japan have formed one of the great and enduring alliances of modern times. From that alliance has come an era of peace in the Pacific.How could the world deal with someone that ignorant?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. ... Hold no regard for unsupported opinion.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Thank you America.
spot;1047434 wrote: When I think of who he's replacing I wonder how simple-minded George ever attracted anyone. Maybe his ability to lie and not even know he was lying had something to do with it. He simply hadn't a clue about so many things.
Do you remember him addressing the Japanese Parliament? I'd love to know what the Japanese MPs made of it:For a century and a half now, America and Japan have formed one of the great and enduring alliances of modern times. From that alliance has come an era of peace in the Pacific.How could the world deal with someone that ignorant?
Well technically he hadn't said how America and Japan had achieved that alliance...
Not to mention "era" and "modern times" can be defined in so many ways...
I agree though that Bush isn't the brightest light in the shed...
Do you remember him addressing the Japanese Parliament? I'd love to know what the Japanese MPs made of it:For a century and a half now, America and Japan have formed one of the great and enduring alliances of modern times. From that alliance has come an era of peace in the Pacific.How could the world deal with someone that ignorant?
Well technically he hadn't said how America and Japan had achieved that alliance...
Not to mention "era" and "modern times" can be defined in so many ways...
I agree though that Bush isn't the brightest light in the shed...
Thank you America.
Hoss;1047423 wrote: Galbally I’m referring to specific terror groups, such as Alqeada. You hunt them and kill them. I don’t know if you've noticed but that’s what we have been doing for some time now.
And you have to keep it up throughout the world for as long as it takes. And we have roughly 60,000 troops in Iraq, which is coming to a close, we can do it with 1/3 of those troops for the next 15 years and keep them at bay, if we keep the pressure on them. And that’s what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about attacking a country like Iran. Iran can be dealt with by bombing military installations, no invasion necessary. For every weapon we find that came from them we take out one military base until they have none. When we are done with military installations we can blow up pipelines, refineries and power plants till they get the idea we aren’t going to accept them supporting terrorists.
Again, I really don't want to get into US Foreign policy on this thread, but I agree that Al Queda are enemies and have to be engaged both militarily, politically, culturally, and by all other means available. They are not just the enemies of America, but the enemies of all Western countries, and indeed all moderate Muslims, and of course, Jews.
I would make the point that there was no Al Queda in Iraq in 2003, and Saddam Hussein (who did have his own issues) was actually a secular Muslim leader and was the sworn enemy of these people. So what invading Iraq had to do with fighting Al Queda I have no idea.
Now of course it takes tens of thousands of Western troops just to keep the jihaddists from creating more mayhem in Iraq than they have already caused, they are on the up in Afganistan, and the Pakistani government is locked in a war with the Taleban (who, yes, are Al Queda allies), in the NorthWestern frontier provinces.
To my mind Iraq is a write-off now, and the resources should be committed to Afganistan to prevent a much worse disasterous military failure. The surge has tactically stopped a lot of the violence, but the commitment of forces is unsustainable economically or politically. Thats the reality, and the sooner its faced up to, the better.
The US will need to redeploy forces from Iraq, and other NATO countries such as Germany and France and Britain will need to commit more battle-ready forces to the area. I believe that they will be prepared to do this and follow US strategic leaderhsip under the new president.
Unless you want to raise another 250,000 troops from somewhere, the extra forces are going to have to come from Iraq, which is unwinable, a rump force should be left in Iraq to give some backbone to the Iraqi Governments questionable abilty to hold its own country from disintergrating into civil conflict, thats my take on the strategic situation.
Though in terms of current commitment, just to remind you that the British did put 25,000 troops into Iraq with you, many were also killed, and they are still in Basra, also there are upwards of 30,000 troops from EU countries in Afganistan, so its not like you are completely on your own here.
And you have to keep it up throughout the world for as long as it takes. And we have roughly 60,000 troops in Iraq, which is coming to a close, we can do it with 1/3 of those troops for the next 15 years and keep them at bay, if we keep the pressure on them. And that’s what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about attacking a country like Iran. Iran can be dealt with by bombing military installations, no invasion necessary. For every weapon we find that came from them we take out one military base until they have none. When we are done with military installations we can blow up pipelines, refineries and power plants till they get the idea we aren’t going to accept them supporting terrorists.
Again, I really don't want to get into US Foreign policy on this thread, but I agree that Al Queda are enemies and have to be engaged both militarily, politically, culturally, and by all other means available. They are not just the enemies of America, but the enemies of all Western countries, and indeed all moderate Muslims, and of course, Jews.
I would make the point that there was no Al Queda in Iraq in 2003, and Saddam Hussein (who did have his own issues) was actually a secular Muslim leader and was the sworn enemy of these people. So what invading Iraq had to do with fighting Al Queda I have no idea.
Now of course it takes tens of thousands of Western troops just to keep the jihaddists from creating more mayhem in Iraq than they have already caused, they are on the up in Afganistan, and the Pakistani government is locked in a war with the Taleban (who, yes, are Al Queda allies), in the NorthWestern frontier provinces.
To my mind Iraq is a write-off now, and the resources should be committed to Afganistan to prevent a much worse disasterous military failure. The surge has tactically stopped a lot of the violence, but the commitment of forces is unsustainable economically or politically. Thats the reality, and the sooner its faced up to, the better.
The US will need to redeploy forces from Iraq, and other NATO countries such as Germany and France and Britain will need to commit more battle-ready forces to the area. I believe that they will be prepared to do this and follow US strategic leaderhsip under the new president.
Unless you want to raise another 250,000 troops from somewhere, the extra forces are going to have to come from Iraq, which is unwinable, a rump force should be left in Iraq to give some backbone to the Iraqi Governments questionable abilty to hold its own country from disintergrating into civil conflict, thats my take on the strategic situation.
Though in terms of current commitment, just to remind you that the British did put 25,000 troops into Iraq with you, many were also killed, and they are still in Basra, also there are upwards of 30,000 troops from EU countries in Afganistan, so its not like you are completely on your own here.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Thank you America.
Oh, and just to let you know, it seems that Iran is a lot closer to having the bomb than has generally been reported, and something ugly may be about to happen there as well. I mean its not like there are any other problems, so that'll be no problem.
Wow, when problems come, they come in groups don't they? Depressing. :-1
Wow, when problems come, they come in groups don't they? Depressing. :-1
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Thank you America.
For a century and a half now, America and Japan have formed one of the great and enduring alliances of modern times. From that alliance has come an era of peace in the Pacific. *Looks over to his left at an MP and chuckles with a hunched back*
:wah:...
I kid, I kid...
:wah:...
:yh_youkid...
:rolleyes:...
*Quickly refocuses attention!*
:yh_rotfl...
:wah:...
I kid, I kid...
:wah:...
:yh_youkid...
:rolleyes:...
*Quickly refocuses attention!*
:yh_rotfl...
Thank you America.
K.Snyder;1047440 wrote: And "era" can be defined in so many ways...Not when he prefixes it "For a century and a half now".
Even before he was elected he warned people where his interests lay. Like at a charity dinner: "This is an impressive crowd - the haves and the have-mores. Some people call you the elites; I call you my base". And sure enough, he got in and that's who he acted for.
Even before he was elected he warned people where his interests lay. Like at a charity dinner: "This is an impressive crowd - the haves and the have-mores. Some people call you the elites; I call you my base". And sure enough, he got in and that's who he acted for.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. ... Hold no regard for unsupported opinion.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Thank you America.
I was just wondering, could we keep this thread onto opinions about the election and try to keep it positive and civilized? I regret throwing a glib insult at Hoppy now, it seems to have undermined the tone.
There are lots of threads about US policy this, and Islamic Fundamentalism that, and all the US Liberal-Conservative battles have other threads in which to slug it out, I don't mean to censor anyone, but it would be nice to just have a positive discussion considering the times that are in it.
Once again, I reiterate that the overwhelming feeling people have in the rest of the world is one of admiration for openess of the Amercian democratic system demonstrated by this election, the graciousness of both candidates in defeat and victory, and the epochal election of an African American into the Whitehouse.
No, the problems from last week are unfortunatly not gone away, in fact they are worse, but thats another discussion.
There are lots of threads about US policy this, and Islamic Fundamentalism that, and all the US Liberal-Conservative battles have other threads in which to slug it out, I don't mean to censor anyone, but it would be nice to just have a positive discussion considering the times that are in it.
Once again, I reiterate that the overwhelming feeling people have in the rest of the world is one of admiration for openess of the Amercian democratic system demonstrated by this election, the graciousness of both candidates in defeat and victory, and the epochal election of an African American into the Whitehouse.
No, the problems from last week are unfortunatly not gone away, in fact they are worse, but thats another discussion.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Thank you America.
spot;1047456 wrote: Not when he prefixes it "For a century and a half now".
Even before he was elected he warned people where his interests lay. Like at a charity dinner: "This is an impressive crowd - the haves and the have-mores. Some people call you the elites; I call you my base". And sure enough, he got in and that's who he acted for.
I don't know what drives people to have the want for money I honestly don't.
As long as I have a full plate and a comfortable place to sleep I couldn't be willing enough to help others in need.
I honestly think Obama has a passion to better this country not only economically but morally and I think the right man was chosen yesterday to have one of the most important jobs in the World.
McCain was given a chance now what's left is to give Barack Hussein Obama the chance he's rightfully earned.
Even before he was elected he warned people where his interests lay. Like at a charity dinner: "This is an impressive crowd - the haves and the have-mores. Some people call you the elites; I call you my base". And sure enough, he got in and that's who he acted for.
I don't know what drives people to have the want for money I honestly don't.
As long as I have a full plate and a comfortable place to sleep I couldn't be willing enough to help others in need.
I honestly think Obama has a passion to better this country not only economically but morally and I think the right man was chosen yesterday to have one of the most important jobs in the World.
McCain was given a chance now what's left is to give Barack Hussein Obama the chance he's rightfully earned.
Thank you America.
spot;1047456 wrote: Not when he prefixes it "For a century and a half now".
Actually, yes, you're right.
That would have placed the sentence in present tense I do believe...
Actually, yes, you're right.
That would have placed the sentence in present tense I do believe...
-
wildhorses
- Posts: 648
- Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:08 pm
Thank you America.
Galbally;1047458 wrote: I was just wondering, could we keep this thread onto opinions about the election and try to keep it positive and civilized? I regret throwing a glib insult at Hoppy now, it seems to have undermined the tone.
There are lots of threads about US policy this, and Islamic Fundamentalism that, and all the US Liberal-Conservative battles have other threads in which to slug it out, I don't mean to censor anyone, but it would be nice to just have a positive discussion considering the times that are in it.
Once again, I reiterate that the overwhelming feeling people have in the rest of the world is one of admiration for openess of the Amercian democratic system demonstrated by this election, the graciousness of both candidates in defeat and victory, and the epochal election of an African American into the Whitehouse.
No, the problems from last week are unfortunatly not gone away, in fact they are worse, but thats another discussion.
I am glad the rest of the world feels so good about the outcome of this election. I do also, but I don't really think its a big deal to elect a black person for president. People seem to think of it as some kind of milestone. I dont. I dont think Americans gave a second thought to the color of skin in this election. The only reason Obama is the first black president, is because he is the first black candidate. The milestone was in the nomination.....not in the election.
There are lots of threads about US policy this, and Islamic Fundamentalism that, and all the US Liberal-Conservative battles have other threads in which to slug it out, I don't mean to censor anyone, but it would be nice to just have a positive discussion considering the times that are in it.
Once again, I reiterate that the overwhelming feeling people have in the rest of the world is one of admiration for openess of the Amercian democratic system demonstrated by this election, the graciousness of both candidates in defeat and victory, and the epochal election of an African American into the Whitehouse.
No, the problems from last week are unfortunatly not gone away, in fact they are worse, but thats another discussion.
I am glad the rest of the world feels so good about the outcome of this election. I do also, but I don't really think its a big deal to elect a black person for president. People seem to think of it as some kind of milestone. I dont. I dont think Americans gave a second thought to the color of skin in this election. The only reason Obama is the first black president, is because he is the first black candidate. The milestone was in the nomination.....not in the election.
Thank you America.
wildhorses;1047470 wrote: I am glad the rest of the world feels so good about the outcome of this election. I do also, but I don't really think its a big deal to elect a black person for president. People seem to think of it as some kind of milestone. I dont. I dont think Americans gave a second thought to the color of skin in this election. The only reason Obama is the first black president, is because he is the first black candidate. The milestone was in the nomination.....not in the election.
Well, I think thats wonderful that you feel that way, it wouldn't happen in my country (not that we have many black Irish people), or in Britain, where there are quite significant minorities now, including black people.
So in that way, you have demonstrated the openess of American society, one that say 50 years ago in some states would not have allowed a man like Barak Obama to sit alongside a white person on a bus, now makes him the President in the Whitehouse, 16 of whoms previous occupants could have owned him as property.
Thats a great testament to America and the ideal of racial tolerance, and the progress it has made over the past 40 years.
Well, I think thats wonderful that you feel that way, it wouldn't happen in my country (not that we have many black Irish people), or in Britain, where there are quite significant minorities now, including black people.
So in that way, you have demonstrated the openess of American society, one that say 50 years ago in some states would not have allowed a man like Barak Obama to sit alongside a white person on a bus, now makes him the President in the Whitehouse, 16 of whoms previous occupants could have owned him as property.
Thats a great testament to America and the ideal of racial tolerance, and the progress it has made over the past 40 years.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Thank you America.
Galbally, if I could take back my original post I would, or at least reword it. I have strong feelings about certain things. These feelings get out of control more and more, it seems. You have no idea how many near fist fights I was involved in yesterday. Thank God the other guys were gentleman enough to resist punching an old cripple in the head.
Anyway, don't judge all Americans by guys like me, too old fashioned to embrace change.
Anyway, don't judge all Americans by guys like me, too old fashioned to embrace change.
Thank you America.
spot;1046815 wrote: You have to be kidding.
He's getting not the least hint of credit from me until he's acted.
He/we dont need your credit.
Go play with your winky and we'll take care of the rest.
He's getting not the least hint of credit from me until he's acted.
He/we dont need your credit.
Go play with your winky and we'll take care of the rest.
I AM AWESOME MAN
Thank you America.
hoppy;1047528 wrote: Galbally, if I could take back my original post I would, or at least reword it. I have strong feelings about certain things. These feelings get out of control more and more, it seems. You have no idea how many near fist fights I was involved in yesterday. Thank God the other guys were gentleman enough to resist punching an old cripple in the head.
Anyway, don't judge all Americans by guys like me, too old fashioned to embrace change.
We all get like that when our buttons get pushed Hoppy, including me, so again I am sorry for being glib and insulting.
I try not to judge Americans as a group (or anyone else really), as I think that most of the criticisims of America from the outside are based on false, unfair impressions of the place and its people, I mean that.
I'm Irish and as a nation we have always instintcively liked and felt affinity for America and Americans anyway, (as do most othe Europeans actually, despite all the arguments and name calling we do to each other across the atlantic) and I am sure that won't change any time soon, not matter what the day-to-day problems and issues are. But personally for me, now that Bush is gone, expressing that admiration is much easier again. :yh_flag
Anyway, don't judge all Americans by guys like me, too old fashioned to embrace change.
We all get like that when our buttons get pushed Hoppy, including me, so again I am sorry for being glib and insulting.
I try not to judge Americans as a group (or anyone else really), as I think that most of the criticisims of America from the outside are based on false, unfair impressions of the place and its people, I mean that.
I'm Irish and as a nation we have always instintcively liked and felt affinity for America and Americans anyway, (as do most othe Europeans actually, despite all the arguments and name calling we do to each other across the atlantic) and I am sure that won't change any time soon, not matter what the day-to-day problems and issues are. But personally for me, now that Bush is gone, expressing that admiration is much easier again. :yh_flag
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Thank you America.
[quote=Hoss;1046423]I'm still in shock.
After your done being shocked perhaps you could take a moment to acknowledge the great stride we've taken as a country in electing a President of color, not so long ago we were hanging these people from trees.
We as a community at large have declared there is no place for racism in this land.
We demand that those things be laid to rest forever.
After your done being shocked perhaps you could take a moment to acknowledge the great stride we've taken as a country in electing a President of color, not so long ago we were hanging these people from trees.
We as a community at large have declared there is no place for racism in this land.
We demand that those things be laid to rest forever.
I AM AWESOME MAN
Thank you America.
wildhorses;1047470 wrote: I am glad the rest of the world feels so good about the outcome of this election. I do also, but I don't really think its a big deal to elect a black person for president. People seem to think of it as some kind of milestone. I dont. I dont think Americans gave a second thought to the color of skin in this election. The only reason Obama is the first black president, is because he is the first black candidate. The milestone was in the nomination.....not in the election.
I disagree.
Speaking for myself prior to my vote it wasnt an issue.
However the moment the news broke it hit me like a 2 ton truck that we had broken a barrier and that was a stunning and emotional moment.
I disagree.
Speaking for myself prior to my vote it wasnt an issue.
However the moment the news broke it hit me like a 2 ton truck that we had broken a barrier and that was a stunning and emotional moment.
I AM AWESOME MAN
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southern yankee
- Posts: 3906
- Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:38 pm
Thank you America.
well, i will sit back and just wait and see. like i said to my better half last night. I will make a comment on his job performance in Sept. or so. The stock market here yesterday. was not impressed.
Thank you America.
Nomad;1047543 wrote: [quote=Hoss;1046423]I'm still in shock.
After your done being shocked perhaps you could take a moment to acknowledge the great stride we've taken as a country in electing a President of color, not so long ago we were hanging these people from trees.
We as a community at large have declared there is no place for racism in this land.
We demand that those things be laid to rest forever.
Well said.
After your done being shocked perhaps you could take a moment to acknowledge the great stride we've taken as a country in electing a President of color, not so long ago we were hanging these people from trees.
We as a community at large have declared there is no place for racism in this land.
We demand that those things be laid to rest forever.
Well said.
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wildhorses
- Posts: 648
- Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:08 pm
Thank you America.
Nomad;1047546 wrote: I disagree.
Speaking for myself prior to my vote it wasnt an issue.
However the moment the news broke it hit me like a 2 ton truck that we had broken a barrier and that was a stunning and emotional moment.
The racism "barrier" was broken many years ago. Like 20 years. If a black candidate had been offered Americans would have voted for him or her. I still think the "barrier" was in the nomination, not in the election itself.
Speaking for myself prior to my vote it wasnt an issue.
However the moment the news broke it hit me like a 2 ton truck that we had broken a barrier and that was a stunning and emotional moment.
The racism "barrier" was broken many years ago. Like 20 years. If a black candidate had been offered Americans would have voted for him or her. I still think the "barrier" was in the nomination, not in the election itself.