Jester;1070315 wrote: The military can sort the facts and hang who they think took arms against us, the rest can wait till the war on terror is over, getting three hots and a cot and a mat to bow towards mecca.
Bringing them to US soil is a blunder above all blunders, unless its to hang them.
Obama is talking of giving them all a trial.
What about about all the Hispanics and Cuban's incarcerated in American prisons that have been there for years without a trial??
Obama to close Guantanamo
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Obama to close Guantanamo
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Obama to close Guantanamo
Jester;1070317 wrote: I dont hate all muslums, just the ones pointing guns at me or who have pointed guns at me and by me I mean the US.
There's a hundred times more of them since you invaded Afghanistan. The more you kill the more you raise.
There's a hundred times more of them since you invaded Afghanistan. The more you kill the more you raise.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Obama to close Guantanamo
Jester;1070315 wrote: The military can sort the facts and hang who they think took arms against us, the rest can wait till the war on terror is over, getting three hots and a cot and a mat to bow towards mecca.
Bringing them to US soil is a blunder above all blunders, unless its to hang them.
Then why don't they? Why are they still being held without trial after five years?
Bringing them to US soil is a blunder above all blunders, unless its to hang them.
Then why don't they? Why are they still being held without trial after five years?
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Obama to close Guantanamo
Jester;1070317 wrote: I dont hate all muslums, just the ones pointing guns at me or who have pointed guns at me and by me I mean the US.
As Al-Quaeda is many cells of Islamic religeous extremists that feel they have been done an injustice by the West, surely Guantanamo fuels their injustice? It is more likely to lead to more attacks on the West until some kind of humanity is shown.
I did not want obama to win, i expressed that in other threads but a world leader has to take the plunge and offer the hand of reason if we are ever to bring peace?
As Al-Quaeda is many cells of Islamic religeous extremists that feel they have been done an injustice by the West, surely Guantanamo fuels their injustice? It is more likely to lead to more attacks on the West until some kind of humanity is shown.
I did not want obama to win, i expressed that in other threads but a world leader has to take the plunge and offer the hand of reason if we are ever to bring peace?
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Obama to close Guantanamo
Jester;1070318 wrote: As I said, Im content to let the military do what needs to be done.
But they're not doing it.
What needs to be done is to show the rest of the world that the people you are holding are really terrorists / enemy PoWs and not just any poor Joe you happened to pick up in passing - until you do that you will continue to be accused of injustice and the longer detention without trial continues the more the rest of the world will assume you cannot and that it is purely a case of indiscriminate vengeance.
But they're not doing it.
What needs to be done is to show the rest of the world that the people you are holding are really terrorists / enemy PoWs and not just any poor Joe you happened to pick up in passing - until you do that you will continue to be accused of injustice and the longer detention without trial continues the more the rest of the world will assume you cannot and that it is purely a case of indiscriminate vengeance.
Obama to close Guantanamo
Jester;1070350 wrote: Becasue the military hasnt finished interrogating them yet, or collectoing data on them, which would be my number one thought. Probably half of them are truly POW's and should be held for the duration of the war as POW's. Possibly some we are holding as POW's until the countries that they murdered people in have stable enough governments to properly execute a sentence.
There could be lots of reasons.
I know the ones I helped capture and send there I probably should have killed myself. Had I know we would turn them over to a wussy-weak psuedo president who would let them go I might have considered it longer.
Not even a single one?
After five years they have not processed a single prisoner to the point where they can try him - pull the other one, I'm sure you can do better than that.
There could be lots of reasons.
I know the ones I helped capture and send there I probably should have killed myself. Had I know we would turn them over to a wussy-weak psuedo president who would let them go I might have considered it longer.
Not even a single one?
After five years they have not processed a single prisoner to the point where they can try him - pull the other one, I'm sure you can do better than that.
Obama to close Guantanamo
Jester;1070353 wrote: Life sucks for a terrorist. Why dont they line up and ask to be executed and get the 40 virgins of the Jihad promise? :rolleyes:
First prove that they are terrorists.
Life sucks for any poor Joe America takes a dislike to whether they're guilty or not.
First prove that they are terrorists.
Life sucks for any poor Joe America takes a dislike to whether they're guilty or not.
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Obama to close Guantanamo
Jester;1070339 wrote: Can you name one, I wasn't aware of any.
There has been many
NET FOR CUBA INTERNATIONAL - NEWS
Report: U.S. criminal justice system unfair, unjust for Hispanics | MSU News | Michigan State University
There has been many
NET FOR CUBA INTERNATIONAL - NEWS
Report: U.S. criminal justice system unfair, unjust for Hispanics | MSU News | Michigan State University
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Obama to close Guantanamo
Jester;1070372 wrote: Jimbo if you think I or any of my fellow soldiers ever purposely bounced a NATO round through a little girl pushing a pram without a weapon in her hands then this discussion isnt worth continueing. The british sodleirs I know (not many I might add) woudlnt do that either.
You've done exactly that with missile strikes and air strikes generally though, knowing as a guaranteed fact that such consequences result from the use of such weaponry. The claim that you didn't aim it with that intention only makes the act more callous.
You've done exactly that with missile strikes and air strikes generally though, knowing as a guaranteed fact that such consequences result from the use of such weaponry. The claim that you didn't aim it with that intention only makes the act more callous.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Obama to close Guantanamo
Jester;1070372 wrote: Jimbo if you think I or any of my fellow soldiers ever purposely bounced a NATO round through a little girl pushing a pram without a weapon in her hands then this discussion isnt worth continueing. The british sodleirs I know (not many I might add) woudlnt do that either.
Jester... any chance of you coming over to the Fg meet in London in january??
I'd sure like to meet you!
Jester... any chance of you coming over to the Fg meet in London in january??
I'd sure like to meet you!
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Obama to close Guantanamo
Jester;1070400 wrote: Expect more after 20 Jan. that'll be his method, it will be a weak show of force to control military costs.
If he has any sense he'll ground your entire Air Force for the duration of his presidency while confining the Army to barracks. It's about time diplomacy was wheeled on stage for a few years.
If he has any sense he'll ground your entire Air Force for the duration of his presidency while confining the Army to barracks. It's about time diplomacy was wheeled on stage for a few years.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Obama to close Guantanamo
Jester;1070367 wrote: No hurry, those are out of the fight.
But you guys win I don't knwo why your arguing anymore, the passive dude is stepping in, the savior, he will set them free!
I'm still arguing because I'm sick of seeing America demeaned and degraded by the tactics of an administration who persue their own agenda at the expense of their country and trample over law, justice and moral behaviour in size twelve hob nail boots.
For as long as they act with no regard to the accepted standards of civilised society they are bringing America down to the level of the terrorists - do you not see that as a situation worth arguing against?
But you guys win I don't knwo why your arguing anymore, the passive dude is stepping in, the savior, he will set them free!
I'm still arguing because I'm sick of seeing America demeaned and degraded by the tactics of an administration who persue their own agenda at the expense of their country and trample over law, justice and moral behaviour in size twelve hob nail boots.
For as long as they act with no regard to the accepted standards of civilised society they are bringing America down to the level of the terrorists - do you not see that as a situation worth arguing against?
Obama to close Guantanamo
Jester;1071126 wrote: -BAMMO-
And I didn't even need to say abra-cadabra you got your wish. You have the great Obamination.
I hope and pray that in the course of the next 4-8 years, no harm from the escalation and entrenching of the terrorists touches anyone you know.
It sickens me that you're willing to let the loop hole of all loop holes slip off the necks of the murdering bastards. You're prolonging the war, increasing the frequency of fighting and with each battle the effects on the innocent will increase, but its ok hide behind a 'higher princple' (Barf) of international law, be 'right' and let more die. That makes perfect liberal sense to me.
Not even international law, you own will do.
How can you call them murdering bastards without any evidence that they have killed anyone? Until you do that they are, by your own constitution, innocent.
As to who's prolonging the war, that's a separate discussion we'll disagree about later but you administration have already denied that the prisoners at Guantanimo are prisoners of war so they can avoid breaking the Geniva Convention so, by their own decree, they should be treating these people as civilians and giving them a fair trial.
And I didn't even need to say abra-cadabra you got your wish. You have the great Obamination.
I hope and pray that in the course of the next 4-8 years, no harm from the escalation and entrenching of the terrorists touches anyone you know.
It sickens me that you're willing to let the loop hole of all loop holes slip off the necks of the murdering bastards. You're prolonging the war, increasing the frequency of fighting and with each battle the effects on the innocent will increase, but its ok hide behind a 'higher princple' (Barf) of international law, be 'right' and let more die. That makes perfect liberal sense to me.
Not even international law, you own will do.
How can you call them murdering bastards without any evidence that they have killed anyone? Until you do that they are, by your own constitution, innocent.
As to who's prolonging the war, that's a separate discussion we'll disagree about later but you administration have already denied that the prisoners at Guantanimo are prisoners of war so they can avoid breaking the Geniva Convention so, by their own decree, they should be treating these people as civilians and giving them a fair trial.
Obama to close Guantanamo
Jester;1071158 wrote: My own law? They'd have been dead already.
I really do hate it when I have to specify personal / impersonal - singular plural every time I use the words you and your.
I hold it to be self evident which was meant.
I really do hate it when I have to specify personal / impersonal - singular plural every time I use the words you and your.
I hold it to be self evident which was meant.
Obama to close Guantanamo
Murderous hatred plus the total self righteous belief in your own viewpoint and willingness to kill and die for it, plus the sure conviction that God is on your side and you alone know his will and everyone else is just plain wrong or evil or weak or socialist or whatever (even your own military commander apparently), and is conspiring against you, plus guns plus the readiness to fight anything that gets in the way of your point of view even if it's your own government - I find this both sickening and very very frightening. And what scares me almost the most, Jester, is that to me this looks exactly like the portrait of the fundamentalist murderously hating extremist of the other side. Two sides of a coin that is putting us all at ever increasing risk.
Sigh
Sigh
"Life is too short to ski with ugly men"
Obama to close Guantanamo
Jester;1071206 wrote: Bud if yer gonna argue it make it clear.
They aren't allowed the law/rights a US citizen, they do not qualifiy under our laws. They were taken with weapons in fighting agaisnt the US military, they either surrendered or were forcefully captured.
I am willing to hold the ones who surendered until the end of the war with the group or country they were fighting for is ended, either an agreement or death to the regime to a point they are incapable of making war, at that point I'd agree to finger print and DNA scan them and execute a forced agreement, the agreement would be that if they were ever caught taking up arms agaisnt the US again they would be immedately executed.
The ones that were taken figthing and refused to give up I would put them on Military Trial by the authority of the theatre commander in which they were taken, If the group or groups they were figting with at the time have been known to commit terrorsim on non combtants I'd advocate executution give them three days to speak for themselves and if they didnt have a pursuaive argument to advocate an investigation Id carry out the sentence. I letter to next of kin explaining the charges etc woudl be sent to the known government, entitity they fought for.
Thats as far as I am willing to go.
In the mean time they should be given medical care, two meals a day, access to censored mail, a place to sleep, freedom to practice self religion/access to one book that is the main writtings of thier religion, and isolation from all other detainees.
If they requested execution I'd grant it.
ahahahahahah now I have to laugh out loud as loud as I can... becasue it doesnt matter what I think, or care or what you care either.
Obama is going to let them go, no accountability for them at all. That angers me deeply.
Not true - many of them were taken off the streets in countries where there was no fighting and flown to Cuba later. This includes some of the Brits who were later released and is the main reason they were subsequently released by our government.
They aren't allowed the law/rights a US citizen, they do not qualifiy under our laws. They were taken with weapons in fighting agaisnt the US military, they either surrendered or were forcefully captured.
I am willing to hold the ones who surendered until the end of the war with the group or country they were fighting for is ended, either an agreement or death to the regime to a point they are incapable of making war, at that point I'd agree to finger print and DNA scan them and execute a forced agreement, the agreement would be that if they were ever caught taking up arms agaisnt the US again they would be immedately executed.
The ones that were taken figthing and refused to give up I would put them on Military Trial by the authority of the theatre commander in which they were taken, If the group or groups they were figting with at the time have been known to commit terrorsim on non combtants I'd advocate executution give them three days to speak for themselves and if they didnt have a pursuaive argument to advocate an investigation Id carry out the sentence. I letter to next of kin explaining the charges etc woudl be sent to the known government, entitity they fought for.
Thats as far as I am willing to go.
In the mean time they should be given medical care, two meals a day, access to censored mail, a place to sleep, freedom to practice self religion/access to one book that is the main writtings of thier religion, and isolation from all other detainees.
If they requested execution I'd grant it.
ahahahahahah now I have to laugh out loud as loud as I can... becasue it doesnt matter what I think, or care or what you care either.
Obama is going to let them go, no accountability for them at all. That angers me deeply.
Not true - many of them were taken off the streets in countries where there was no fighting and flown to Cuba later. This includes some of the Brits who were later released and is the main reason they were subsequently released by our government.
Obama to close Guantanamo
Jester;1071272 wrote: Don't sugar coat it Pam tell me what you really think!
.....
Pam you fail to grasp the level of fanatacism that drives the muslum ideology that is thier cause to fight. They want thier way or death, I choose to give them death over getting thier way. If that makes me the bastard on the other side of the coin in your eyes so be it.
I haven't at all failed to grasp the level of fanaticism that drives fundamentalist extremist islamic religious/political ideology, Jester. It has put my own children in direct danger, it puts me, my country, all of us in potential danger. I fully believe it should be stopped. Rooted out utterly. But by intelligent targetting, not by gung ho nuking everything in sight. What I had not quite fully grasped was the level of fanaticism that drives some fundamentalist extremist "christian" religious/political ideology. I now have.
You have said what you really think. And you've said it politely. I have done the same. There's really nothing further I would wish to add.
.....
Pam you fail to grasp the level of fanatacism that drives the muslum ideology that is thier cause to fight. They want thier way or death, I choose to give them death over getting thier way. If that makes me the bastard on the other side of the coin in your eyes so be it.
I haven't at all failed to grasp the level of fanaticism that drives fundamentalist extremist islamic religious/political ideology, Jester. It has put my own children in direct danger, it puts me, my country, all of us in potential danger. I fully believe it should be stopped. Rooted out utterly. But by intelligent targetting, not by gung ho nuking everything in sight. What I had not quite fully grasped was the level of fanaticism that drives some fundamentalist extremist "christian" religious/political ideology. I now have.
You have said what you really think. And you've said it politely. I have done the same. There's really nothing further I would wish to add.
"Life is too short to ski with ugly men"
Obama to close Guantanamo
Jester;1071272 wrote:
I am a believer in God and in my government as discribed under the US constituion, where the constituion dictates to me what God does not I voluntarily submit as probably the greatest treatiste on government ever created.
........you fail to grasp the level of fanatacism that drives the muslum ideology that is thier cause to fight. They want thier way or death, I choose to give them death over getting thier way.
"I am a believer in God and in my government"
In the same breathe ?
As if they are one and the same......or perhaps one was bestowed power by the other....( I wonder which way that happened ?)
"........probably the greatest treatis on government ever created."
On tablets of stone ? God help us all.........whoever your God is.....arrogance personified.
"........you fail to grasp the level of fanatacism that drives the (Insert your own ) ideology"
Wait for it......."that is their cause to fight."
Against the most technically advanced society on earth, given their right to defend freedom from God on high.....and the firepower to back it up.....
"They want thier way or death, I choose to give them death over getting thier way"
"I choose" Its my way or death.........
I wish to have such certainty in my view of life and death.......right and wrong.
God Bless America
I am a believer in God and in my government as discribed under the US constituion, where the constituion dictates to me what God does not I voluntarily submit as probably the greatest treatiste on government ever created.
........you fail to grasp the level of fanatacism that drives the muslum ideology that is thier cause to fight. They want thier way or death, I choose to give them death over getting thier way.
"I am a believer in God and in my government"
In the same breathe ?
As if they are one and the same......or perhaps one was bestowed power by the other....( I wonder which way that happened ?)
"........probably the greatest treatis on government ever created."
On tablets of stone ? God help us all.........whoever your God is.....arrogance personified.
"........you fail to grasp the level of fanatacism that drives the (Insert your own ) ideology"
Wait for it......."that is their cause to fight."
Against the most technically advanced society on earth, given their right to defend freedom from God on high.....and the firepower to back it up.....
"They want thier way or death, I choose to give them death over getting thier way"
"I choose" Its my way or death.........
I wish to have such certainty in my view of life and death.......right and wrong.
God Bless America
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Obama to close Guantanamo
Im sure the more sophisticated amongst us will get the irony in my post.......or maybe its just me.
I can be strange at times
I can be strange at times
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Obama to close Guantanamo
Jester;1071280 wrote: See there and it was discovered and the innocent were rooted out. Excellent on th epart of the US military for releasing them.
The rest are guilty.
Show some evidence of this - I saw the reports of them going in but only isolated incidents such as the UK government reclaiming its own of any coming out. Those from countries without the leverage of the UK are still in there.
The rest are innocent until proven guilty - prove that and I'll support you in keeping them there, until then you are wrong.
The rest are guilty.
Show some evidence of this - I saw the reports of them going in but only isolated incidents such as the UK government reclaiming its own of any coming out. Those from countries without the leverage of the UK are still in there.
The rest are innocent until proven guilty - prove that and I'll support you in keeping them there, until then you are wrong.
Obama to close Guantanamo
Jester;1071314 wrote: Pam, let me re-inform you then. I am one person with one opinon, no one else at my church holds my views. The view I have comes from fighting these bastards for 20 years.
Why people assume that my view is some sort of warped fundamentialist view is beyond me. I have never ever heard God wisper in my ear to go kill anyone.
Just for the record I dont think they deserve to die becasue they claim a mulsum philosophy either, I want them dead becasue their actions prove to me there is NO OTHER OPTION.
Which is *exactly* the justification they use in wanting to fight the US.
Why people assume that my view is some sort of warped fundamentialist view is beyond me. I have never ever heard God wisper in my ear to go kill anyone.
Just for the record I dont think they deserve to die becasue they claim a mulsum philosophy either, I want them dead becasue their actions prove to me there is NO OTHER OPTION.
Which is *exactly* the justification they use in wanting to fight the US.
Obama to close Guantanamo
Bruv;1071360 wrote:
"I am a believer in God and in my government"
In the same breathe ?
As if they are one and the same......or perhaps one was bestowed power by the other....( I wonder which way that happened ?)
"........probably the greatest treatis on government ever created."
On tablets of stone ? God help us all.........whoever your God is.....arrogance personified.
"........you fail to grasp the level of fanatacism that drives the (Insert your own ) ideology"
Wait for it......."that is their cause to fight."
Against the most technically advanced society on earth, given their right to defend freedom from God on high.....and the firepower to back it up.....
"They want thier way or death, I choose to give them death over getting thier way"
"I choose" Its my way or death.........
I wish to have such certainty in my view of life and death.......right and wrong.
God Bless America
You'd better believe it - Accountable has already stated that he believes that the US constitution is divinely ordained.
"I am a believer in God and in my government"
In the same breathe ?
As if they are one and the same......or perhaps one was bestowed power by the other....( I wonder which way that happened ?)
"........probably the greatest treatis on government ever created."
On tablets of stone ? God help us all.........whoever your God is.....arrogance personified.
"........you fail to grasp the level of fanatacism that drives the (Insert your own ) ideology"
Wait for it......."that is their cause to fight."
Against the most technically advanced society on earth, given their right to defend freedom from God on high.....and the firepower to back it up.....
"They want thier way or death, I choose to give them death over getting thier way"
"I choose" Its my way or death.........
I wish to have such certainty in my view of life and death.......right and wrong.
God Bless America
You'd better believe it - Accountable has already stated that he believes that the US constitution is divinely ordained.