gmc wrote: posted by idsguy
Clearly we are but no problem there I can agree to disagree. I have a compulsion to keep going over what I believe and think, sometimes I shift a little other times I don't. Don't take this amiss but I often find if you take a set of facts and put a different interpretation or explanation on them it gets rejected because it conflicts with the preferred world view. Yes I am well aware you could say the same about me.
You take a dim view of the way the world is going I don't. We need a secular world, religon can cause too many problems.
You see the breadown of marraige as a bad thing, I see it as a change to the bad old days when societal pressure kept people in situations they would have been better out of. Social pressure can be incredibly oppressive-just ask a teenage asian girl forced in to an arranged marraige against their will. That's something in the UK we have tended to ignore rather than interfere with someone elses
culture and religon. One other way of looking at it is we were allowing a crime to be committed because we were worried about offending somebody's religious sensibilities. There have even been "honour" killings and their defenders saying we don't understand their culture. Individual freedom of choice is the cornerstone of any free society, that some would abuse a free society or would want to impose their own morality doesn't mean we should listen to them.
posted by idsguy
Whose version and interpretation of the scriptures?
posted by jives
After 20-30 years most people would think they had given things a good try. Sometimes you just have to walk away from things. Again don't take this amiss, I'm trying to provke debate not antagonism, but who would you condemn in a marraige break up. The man or the woman?
Of course some marraiges will have to break down after trying hard to make them work sometimes its just impossible. The problem we have today is not that SOME marriages must end, but that SO MANY marriages end. like 50%.
Also that so many relationships don,t even involve marriage. Once again I must stress that ALL the terrible things which have been done in the name of religion - especialy chirstianity - are not the fault of the reliegion but are the result of perversion of reliegion. This is especialy so in the case of Christianity. We can,t blame Jesus Christ or the religeon he founded for the total MESS which is now presented to us.
Was Katrina Sent by God?
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Accountable
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Was Katrina Sent by God?
Paul said not to have sex and don't get married at all. He thought marriage was for the weak who couldn't control their sexual impulses.
Was Katrina Sent by God?
Posted by Jives
Really? Who here has done that? I claimed the exact opposite...that no one can know the mind of God and therefore cannot understand the far reaching consequences of any event. From the posts I've seen, Clint agreed with me.
Nobody posting on these forums, I was referring to the article in the first post and the mentality behind it.
JERUSALEM – Hurricane Katrina, which some say bears striking similarities to recent events in Israel, was punishment from God for President Bush's support of the evacuation of Jews from the Gaza Strip, a senior Israeli rabbi announced.
""It was God's retribution – God does not short-change anyone," said Shas spiritual leader Rabbi Ovadia Yosef during his weekly sermon.
Shas is the largest Orthodox Jewish political party in Israel.
I do my best to keep my points as general as possible and to make it clear I am not having a go at anyone in partcular. One of the attractions about this forum is the chance to discourse with individuals with such markedly different viewpoints from my own. I enjoy doing so It's good fun and good intellectual exercise.
posted by jives
Which would be rather contradictory, wouldn't it? Anyone who is a true Christian will understand that those qualities are the exact opposites of the ones Jesus wanted us to live.
I know lots of Christians....and not one of those people exhibits those characteristics
I too know many christians who exhibit none of these characteristics and for who I have enormous respect even if I do not share their beliefs. I also know religious people who are vindictive, malicious and take great delight in seeing people get their comeuppance as it were. They call themselves christian and see themselves more christian than any other idolatorous religious sect. Religious yes, Christian? I would say no.
posted by jives
But I guess I can understand your feelings. I think all Atheists are people-hating, anti-life, negatively oriented, unpatriotic, depressing sociopaths.
The unpatriotic bit is puzzling, but apart from that the above sounds like a description of a wee free who are the most miserable people I have ever met but are happy in their misery-after all "mankind was put on earth to suffer for his sins" my other favourite quote is "laugh and the devil gets in".
postd by idsguy
Once again I must stress that ALL the terrible things which have been done in the name of religion - especialy chirstianity - are not the fault of the reliegion but are the result of perversion of reliegion. This is especialy so in the case of Christianity. We can,t blame Jesus Christ or the religeon he founded for the total MESS which is now presented to us.
I would agree with you there, but you can blame those who follow blindly without questioning and depend on others to tell them what to think.
posted by ted
I have very serious concerns about fundamentalism myself. In fact Generally I believe it is contrary to the life and message of Jesus. It is a betrayal of our Lord especially when it comes out in the extreme.
from the oxford english dictionary
fundamentalism
• noun 1 a form of Protestant Christianity which upholds belief in the strict and literal interpretation of the Bible. 2 the strict maintenance of the ancient or fundamental doctrines of any religion or ideology.
†DERIVATIVES fundamentalist noun & adjective.
One of the things that puzzles me is why christians taking in JC's message are then so attracted to the vindictive god of the old testament? Please note that is a general question and I am not casting aspersions at anyone posting.
posted by accountable
Paul said not to have sex and don't get married at all. He thought marriage was for the weak who couldn't control their sexual impulses.
So why was he such misogynist?
posted by skeeter
I am going to un-cork the bottle and let the contents flow...and oh, will I ever get 'stuff' on this one....
Does it ever seem odd to you that the most evil part of area flooded is being cleaned up and re-opened for business the fastest and the firstest....you don't suppose Satan has anything to do with that, do you ? IIf you respond that there is no such person as Satan....well, so be it.
Satan was a creation of the medeival church in its propoganda war against paganism :sneaky:
Maybe god has a wicked sense of humour and appreciates the irony of it all.
I see Walmart are being asked to open for business, since when did they become agents of satan?
:-2
Really? Who here has done that? I claimed the exact opposite...that no one can know the mind of God and therefore cannot understand the far reaching consequences of any event. From the posts I've seen, Clint agreed with me.
Nobody posting on these forums, I was referring to the article in the first post and the mentality behind it.
JERUSALEM – Hurricane Katrina, which some say bears striking similarities to recent events in Israel, was punishment from God for President Bush's support of the evacuation of Jews from the Gaza Strip, a senior Israeli rabbi announced.
""It was God's retribution – God does not short-change anyone," said Shas spiritual leader Rabbi Ovadia Yosef during his weekly sermon.
Shas is the largest Orthodox Jewish political party in Israel.
I do my best to keep my points as general as possible and to make it clear I am not having a go at anyone in partcular. One of the attractions about this forum is the chance to discourse with individuals with such markedly different viewpoints from my own. I enjoy doing so It's good fun and good intellectual exercise.
posted by jives
Which would be rather contradictory, wouldn't it? Anyone who is a true Christian will understand that those qualities are the exact opposites of the ones Jesus wanted us to live.
I know lots of Christians....and not one of those people exhibits those characteristics
I too know many christians who exhibit none of these characteristics and for who I have enormous respect even if I do not share their beliefs. I also know religious people who are vindictive, malicious and take great delight in seeing people get their comeuppance as it were. They call themselves christian and see themselves more christian than any other idolatorous religious sect. Religious yes, Christian? I would say no.
posted by jives
But I guess I can understand your feelings. I think all Atheists are people-hating, anti-life, negatively oriented, unpatriotic, depressing sociopaths.
The unpatriotic bit is puzzling, but apart from that the above sounds like a description of a wee free who are the most miserable people I have ever met but are happy in their misery-after all "mankind was put on earth to suffer for his sins" my other favourite quote is "laugh and the devil gets in".
postd by idsguy
Once again I must stress that ALL the terrible things which have been done in the name of religion - especialy chirstianity - are not the fault of the reliegion but are the result of perversion of reliegion. This is especialy so in the case of Christianity. We can,t blame Jesus Christ or the religeon he founded for the total MESS which is now presented to us.
I would agree with you there, but you can blame those who follow blindly without questioning and depend on others to tell them what to think.
posted by ted
I have very serious concerns about fundamentalism myself. In fact Generally I believe it is contrary to the life and message of Jesus. It is a betrayal of our Lord especially when it comes out in the extreme.
from the oxford english dictionary
fundamentalism
• noun 1 a form of Protestant Christianity which upholds belief in the strict and literal interpretation of the Bible. 2 the strict maintenance of the ancient or fundamental doctrines of any religion or ideology.
†DERIVATIVES fundamentalist noun & adjective.
One of the things that puzzles me is why christians taking in JC's message are then so attracted to the vindictive god of the old testament? Please note that is a general question and I am not casting aspersions at anyone posting.
posted by accountable
Paul said not to have sex and don't get married at all. He thought marriage was for the weak who couldn't control their sexual impulses.
So why was he such misogynist?
posted by skeeter
I am going to un-cork the bottle and let the contents flow...and oh, will I ever get 'stuff' on this one....
Does it ever seem odd to you that the most evil part of area flooded is being cleaned up and re-opened for business the fastest and the firstest....you don't suppose Satan has anything to do with that, do you ? IIf you respond that there is no such person as Satan....well, so be it.
Satan was a creation of the medeival church in its propoganda war against paganism :sneaky:
Maybe god has a wicked sense of humour and appreciates the irony of it all.
I see Walmart are being asked to open for business, since when did they become agents of satan?
:-2
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Accountable
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Was Katrina Sent by God?
Accountable wrote: Paul said not to have sex and don't get married at all. He thought marriage was for the weak who couldn't control their sexual impulses.
gmc wrote:
So why was he such misogynist?
I don't understand the question in this context.
gmc wrote: One of the attractions about this forum is the chance to discourse with individuals with such markedly different viewpoints from my own. I enjoy doing so It's good fun and good intellectual exercise.
I agree wholeheartedly. That's the most fun thing about FG! :yh_hugs
gmc wrote:
So why was he such misogynist?
I don't understand the question in this context.
gmc wrote: One of the attractions about this forum is the chance to discourse with individuals with such markedly different viewpoints from my own. I enjoy doing so It's good fun and good intellectual exercise.
I agree wholeheartedly. That's the most fun thing about FG! :yh_hugs
Was Katrina Sent by God?
gmc wrote: Nobody posting on these forums, I was referring to the article in the first post and the mentality behind it.
Ahhh...I see.
I do my best to keep my points as general as possible and to make it clear I am not having a go at anyone in partcular. One of the attractions about this forum is the chance to discourse with individuals with such markedly different viewpoints from my own. I enjoy doing so It's good fun and good intellectual exercise.
Very well stated.
I too know many christians who exhibit none of these characteristics and for who I have enormous respect even if I do not share their beliefs.
Thank you.
I also know religious people who are vindictive, malicious and take great delight in seeing people get their comeuppance as it were. They call themselves christian and see themselves more christian than any other idolatorous religious sect. Religious yes, Christian? I would say no.
My point exactly, they are Christians in name only. Not the real thing.
The unpatriotic bit is puzzling,
Thoughts of the Atheist who just sued the schools to stop the Pledge of Allegiance are currently on my mind. The loss of persepctive is appalling.
Ahhh...I see.
I do my best to keep my points as general as possible and to make it clear I am not having a go at anyone in partcular. One of the attractions about this forum is the chance to discourse with individuals with such markedly different viewpoints from my own. I enjoy doing so It's good fun and good intellectual exercise.
Very well stated.
I too know many christians who exhibit none of these characteristics and for who I have enormous respect even if I do not share their beliefs.
Thank you.
I also know religious people who are vindictive, malicious and take great delight in seeing people get their comeuppance as it were. They call themselves christian and see themselves more christian than any other idolatorous religious sect. Religious yes, Christian? I would say no.
My point exactly, they are Christians in name only. Not the real thing.
The unpatriotic bit is puzzling,
Thoughts of the Atheist who just sued the schools to stop the Pledge of Allegiance are currently on my mind. The loss of persepctive is appalling.
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
Was Katrina Sent by God?
posted by jives
Thoughts of the Atheist who just sued the schools to stop the Pledge of Allegiance are currently on my mind. The loss of persepctive is appalling.
I see there is a post on this elsewhere-I'm not american so it is no matter, but one nation indivisible would appeal to me more than one nation under godWanting to leave god out of it doen't make you less patriotic IMHO. But as a non american it is a debate I shall keep well out of.
posted by accountable
I don't understand the question in this context.
misogynist
• noun a man who hates women.
Alternatively, like all those of a prurient disposition, he assumes others are as obsessed as he is. It shows a breathtaking lack of humanity to consider the love of a woman a sign of weakness.
I do wonder though-I was on Malta, the place where where Paul was shipwrecked on his way to Rome. you have to wonder at the character that so many found appealing and had such effect. Would cghristianity have got anywhere without his interpretation?
Thoughts of the Atheist who just sued the schools to stop the Pledge of Allegiance are currently on my mind. The loss of persepctive is appalling.
I see there is a post on this elsewhere-I'm not american so it is no matter, but one nation indivisible would appeal to me more than one nation under godWanting to leave god out of it doen't make you less patriotic IMHO. But as a non american it is a debate I shall keep well out of.
posted by accountable
I don't understand the question in this context.
misogynist
• noun a man who hates women.
Alternatively, like all those of a prurient disposition, he assumes others are as obsessed as he is. It shows a breathtaking lack of humanity to consider the love of a woman a sign of weakness.
I do wonder though-I was on Malta, the place where where Paul was shipwrecked on his way to Rome. you have to wonder at the character that so many found appealing and had such effect. Would cghristianity have got anywhere without his interpretation?
Was Katrina Sent by God?
Accountable wrote: I don't understand the question in this context.
I agree wholeheartedly. That's the most fun thing about FG! :yh_hugs
It is my understanding that marriage was ordained of God. That the joining together of one man and one woman and to fill the Earth is part of His plan.
I understand that the Apostle Paul,s reference to staying single was directed at priests not everyone. He seemed to believe that priests, in that time, might be able to concentrate on their mission better if not distracted by marriage. They were required to travel extensivly and to do so without monetary reward. However, should such a state lead them into sin, it would be better to marry.
I agree wholeheartedly. That's the most fun thing about FG! :yh_hugs
It is my understanding that marriage was ordained of God. That the joining together of one man and one woman and to fill the Earth is part of His plan.
I understand that the Apostle Paul,s reference to staying single was directed at priests not everyone. He seemed to believe that priests, in that time, might be able to concentrate on their mission better if not distracted by marriage. They were required to travel extensivly and to do so without monetary reward. However, should such a state lead them into sin, it would be better to marry.
Was Katrina Sent by God?
I do not accept that God sent destruction on mankind. The Old Testiment events being natural disasters which were interpreted by the Israelites to be Acts of God.
Modern day catasrophies likewise are natural disasters - part of this physical Earth. Mankind might well have a hand in bringing about disaster by mis management of the planet.
However God might well withold His protection as the world retreats further and further from the standards He has made abundantly clear.
I do believe in divine protection, on an individual level and on national level.
Modern day catasrophies likewise are natural disasters - part of this physical Earth. Mankind might well have a hand in bringing about disaster by mis management of the planet.
However God might well withold His protection as the world retreats further and further from the standards He has made abundantly clear.
I do believe in divine protection, on an individual level and on national level.
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Accountable
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Was Katrina Sent by God?
ldsguy wrote: It is my understanding that marriage was ordained of God. That the joining together of one man and one woman and to fill the Earth is part of His plan.
I understand that the Apostle Paul,s reference to staying single was directed at priests not everyone. He seemed to believe that priests, in that time, might be able to concentrate on their mission better if not distracted by marriage. They were required to travel extensivly and to do so without monetary reward. However, should such a state lead them into sin, it would be better to marry.
To my knowledge, the one man, one woman thing was not until long after the letters we now call the Bible were written. Polygamy was acceptable practice in biblical times.
ldsguy wrote:
I do not accept that God sent destruction on mankind. The Old Testiment events being natural disasters which were interpreted by the Israelites to be Acts of God.
How do you decide what parts of the Bible to believe or not to believe? How did King James' employees decide which of the multitudes of documents were worthy of being called God's word and which were simply writings of Man? This is the problem I have with the Bible and the organizations that claim to follow its teachings.
I was taught as a child that Jesus is the son of God and that His Word is that of God. I believed it because I was a child. If I had been told the story as an adult, I would never believe it. I now choose to hang on to that belief with childlike faith. However, I recognize that the entire Bible is a creation of Man, and any parallels with God's Word is coincidence.
I understand that the Apostle Paul,s reference to staying single was directed at priests not everyone. He seemed to believe that priests, in that time, might be able to concentrate on their mission better if not distracted by marriage. They were required to travel extensivly and to do so without monetary reward. However, should such a state lead them into sin, it would be better to marry.
To my knowledge, the one man, one woman thing was not until long after the letters we now call the Bible were written. Polygamy was acceptable practice in biblical times.
ldsguy wrote:
I do not accept that God sent destruction on mankind. The Old Testiment events being natural disasters which were interpreted by the Israelites to be Acts of God.
How do you decide what parts of the Bible to believe or not to believe? How did King James' employees decide which of the multitudes of documents were worthy of being called God's word and which were simply writings of Man? This is the problem I have with the Bible and the organizations that claim to follow its teachings.
I was taught as a child that Jesus is the son of God and that His Word is that of God. I believed it because I was a child. If I had been told the story as an adult, I would never believe it. I now choose to hang on to that belief with childlike faith. However, I recognize that the entire Bible is a creation of Man, and any parallels with God's Word is coincidence.
Was Katrina Sent by God?
On the canon of scripture:-6
I though that this might prove interesting. I have just completed a book titled "Introducing the New Testament; Its Literature and Theology" by Achtemeir, Gree, and Thompson.
P608 "One can say, therefore, that the formation of the canon was coterminous with the life of the Christian community during its first three centuries of existence. It is not the case that some synod or council of bishops decided which books should be normative and thereafter required for Christians to accept. Rather, the books that finally were included in the canon were included because over the centruies Christians had come to use them in their worship and instruction and to revere them for the power they display in engendering, enriching, and correcting Christian faith.
The canon thus represents the collective experience and understanding of the Christian community during the formative centuries of its existence."
Thus the canon represents what the early church had come to believe based on their experiences, their culture, their history, their ability to comprehend and understand, their conceptualization ability, their language, their fund of knowledge etc. It represents a ancient understanding of the way things were. It must also by the very nature of the Divine make use of the metaphors that it could grasp and understand since metaphor is the only way one can talk about the Divine.
We are now in the 21cent and all of the above critical factors have changed. We now know that disease is caused by pathogens or genetics and not demon posession. That reminds me of the lines from the Bible about "when I was a child I did and saw things as a child and when I grew up I put away childish things.
Thus the emerging paradigm is a modern understanding of the canon based on the above factors and our ever increasing fund of knowlege.
Shalom
Ted
I though that this might prove interesting. I have just completed a book titled "Introducing the New Testament; Its Literature and Theology" by Achtemeir, Gree, and Thompson.
P608 "One can say, therefore, that the formation of the canon was coterminous with the life of the Christian community during its first three centuries of existence. It is not the case that some synod or council of bishops decided which books should be normative and thereafter required for Christians to accept. Rather, the books that finally were included in the canon were included because over the centruies Christians had come to use them in their worship and instruction and to revere them for the power they display in engendering, enriching, and correcting Christian faith.
The canon thus represents the collective experience and understanding of the Christian community during the formative centuries of its existence."
Thus the canon represents what the early church had come to believe based on their experiences, their culture, their history, their ability to comprehend and understand, their conceptualization ability, their language, their fund of knowledge etc. It represents a ancient understanding of the way things were. It must also by the very nature of the Divine make use of the metaphors that it could grasp and understand since metaphor is the only way one can talk about the Divine.
We are now in the 21cent and all of the above critical factors have changed. We now know that disease is caused by pathogens or genetics and not demon posession. That reminds me of the lines from the Bible about "when I was a child I did and saw things as a child and when I grew up I put away childish things.
Thus the emerging paradigm is a modern understanding of the canon based on the above factors and our ever increasing fund of knowlege.
Shalom
Ted
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nvalleyvee
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Was Katrina Sent by God?
Ted wrote: On the canon of scripture:-6
I though that this might prove interesting. I have just completed a book titled "Introducing the New Testament; Its Literature and Theology" by Achtemeir, Gree, and Thompson.
We are now in the 21cent and all of the above critical factors have changed. We now know that disease is caused by pathogens or genetics and not demon posession. That reminds me of the lines from the Bible about "when I was a child I did and saw things as a child and when I grew up I put away childish things.
Thus the emerging paradigm is a modern understanding of the canon based on the above factors and our ever increasing fund of knowlege.
Shalom
Ted
Namaste Ted
I though that this might prove interesting. I have just completed a book titled "Introducing the New Testament; Its Literature and Theology" by Achtemeir, Gree, and Thompson.
We are now in the 21cent and all of the above critical factors have changed. We now know that disease is caused by pathogens or genetics and not demon posession. That reminds me of the lines from the Bible about "when I was a child I did and saw things as a child and when I grew up I put away childish things.
Thus the emerging paradigm is a modern understanding of the canon based on the above factors and our ever increasing fund of knowlege.
Shalom
Ted
Namaste Ted
The growth of knowledge depends entirely on disagreement..........Karl R. Popper
Was Katrina Sent by God?
"As an archaeologist, I am constantly being asked whether the purpose of my work is to seek proof of the stories andevents as they appear in the Old and New Testaments. My answer is imphatically that this is not possible, as the Bible is not an historical document to be proved or disporved, albeit there are numerous strands of historical information of varying quality that may actually be teased out of the text."
P 3 "The Cave of John the Baptist" Shimon Gibson.
Shalom
Ted:-6
P 3 "The Cave of John the Baptist" Shimon Gibson.
Shalom
Ted:-6
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LottomagicZ4941
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Was Katrina Sent by God?
"The rain falls on the just and the unjust alike" Ecleastiacies(sp?)
More likely that locust would be sent by God.
He has done that one before.
More likely that locust would be sent by God.
He has done that one before.
Was Katrina Sent by God?
O.K just to put a different spin on this.
If you believe in god and that he is responsible for everything that happens on earth and katrina was a deliberate act of destruction then he had a reason for what happened. Religious people can argue about what it all means along with all the deaths is africa from famine and malaysia from the tsunami. Presumably many of them believe in god as well so why is he picking on them? Wrong god right god, wrong version of the bible right version take your pick. Chosen people/not chosen people.
Actually that last one gets me, if god made all mankind why should he favour one race or tribe over another if he loves all equally the he has a funny way of showing it.
Alternatively-assuming again god made everything but these are random events set in chain by god creating the earth etc and god is not behind it them but letting things hapopen what is the poiint in praying since he is not listening and won't change things anyway.
Or how about having given mankind domionion over the earth and all on it maybe he is getting a bit annoyed about how many of his creations are being destroyed by mankind and is sending a heavy hint.
If you believe in god and that he is responsible for everything that happens on earth and katrina was a deliberate act of destruction then he had a reason for what happened. Religious people can argue about what it all means along with all the deaths is africa from famine and malaysia from the tsunami. Presumably many of them believe in god as well so why is he picking on them? Wrong god right god, wrong version of the bible right version take your pick. Chosen people/not chosen people.
Actually that last one gets me, if god made all mankind why should he favour one race or tribe over another if he loves all equally the he has a funny way of showing it.
Alternatively-assuming again god made everything but these are random events set in chain by god creating the earth etc and god is not behind it them but letting things hapopen what is the poiint in praying since he is not listening and won't change things anyway.
Or how about having given mankind domionion over the earth and all on it maybe he is getting a bit annoyed about how many of his creations are being destroyed by mankind and is sending a heavy hint.
Was Katrina Sent by God?
The warship is in route to a location and mission that is secret. Only the Captain knows where the ship is going and why. Seaman Smith wants to trade the helm watch with Seaman Jones. The Captain has hand selected the crew for their individual strengths. The request for the seamen to trade watches is denied by the Captain because he knows that very soon they will be doing something that Seaman Smith’s special skills will be needed for. The Captain doesn’t explain, he just denies the request.
It is quite a leap for a human to assume they know God’s mission (the big picture). We can speculate and enjoy doing it but to decide God is wrong or doesn’t exist because He hasn’t made us privy to his plans is a bit short sighted.
“Chosen people†has to do with the mission. God has chosen people or groups of people for various tasks necessary to achieve his mission. Jews are “chosen†as a nation of priests. They are not selected for salvation over other people. They have only been “chosen†for a special responsibility.
The Bible is clear that all men are elected for salvation. Not all men will acknowledge and accept that election. He leaves us with free will.
Accepting God and His attributes means accepting that He knew from the beginning what His creation would do. He knew that things would play out the way they have. We say He should have done it differently but what do we know? We only know bits and pieces of what the outcome will be. He has the whole picture. If we insist that He change things because we think some of the things He is doing are cruel, and He does it, it could result in our missing the ultimate blessing.
It is quite a leap for a human to assume they know God’s mission (the big picture). We can speculate and enjoy doing it but to decide God is wrong or doesn’t exist because He hasn’t made us privy to his plans is a bit short sighted.
“Chosen people†has to do with the mission. God has chosen people or groups of people for various tasks necessary to achieve his mission. Jews are “chosen†as a nation of priests. They are not selected for salvation over other people. They have only been “chosen†for a special responsibility.
The Bible is clear that all men are elected for salvation. Not all men will acknowledge and accept that election. He leaves us with free will.
Accepting God and His attributes means accepting that He knew from the beginning what His creation would do. He knew that things would play out the way they have. We say He should have done it differently but what do we know? We only know bits and pieces of what the outcome will be. He has the whole picture. If we insist that He change things because we think some of the things He is doing are cruel, and He does it, it could result in our missing the ultimate blessing.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
Was Katrina Sent by God?
gmc:-6
The myth of creation in the Bible would indicate that we were given dominion over the earth and all that is contained therein. I don't believe that is the case. We have developed on this earth and I believe that it is our responsibility to all living creatures to make use of all that we have in an appropriate way. In this we have totally failed.
We have raped the earth, we have decimated many species of animals and it would appear that we have had a hand in advancing global warming.
"Mother earth" if I can use that term is now letting us know just how badly we have done.
I accept the reality of the Divine but I also accept that the Divine One has given mother earth permission to retaliate.
I believe that at times the Divine Creative Energy of the universe can and does use natural events to move things in one direction or another.
God has not promised us an easy ride in life. But He has promised to be there for us to help us through the rough spots. I firmly believe that this happens.
I do not believe that God willy nilly does what He pleases without regard for human or animal life. Creation is still ongoing and we really have no idea where it is going. However, I believe that the Divine Creator is benevolent and wants what is best for man both now and in the future.
One thing I should add is that whenever we speak of the Divine we have only metaphor in which to do it. We lack totally the language necessary to deal with the Divine in any accurate manner.
Shalom
Ted:-6
The myth of creation in the Bible would indicate that we were given dominion over the earth and all that is contained therein. I don't believe that is the case. We have developed on this earth and I believe that it is our responsibility to all living creatures to make use of all that we have in an appropriate way. In this we have totally failed.
We have raped the earth, we have decimated many species of animals and it would appear that we have had a hand in advancing global warming.
"Mother earth" if I can use that term is now letting us know just how badly we have done.
I accept the reality of the Divine but I also accept that the Divine One has given mother earth permission to retaliate.
I believe that at times the Divine Creative Energy of the universe can and does use natural events to move things in one direction or another.
God has not promised us an easy ride in life. But He has promised to be there for us to help us through the rough spots. I firmly believe that this happens.
I do not believe that God willy nilly does what He pleases without regard for human or animal life. Creation is still ongoing and we really have no idea where it is going. However, I believe that the Divine Creator is benevolent and wants what is best for man both now and in the future.
One thing I should add is that whenever we speak of the Divine we have only metaphor in which to do it. We lack totally the language necessary to deal with the Divine in any accurate manner.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Was Katrina Sent by God?
posted by clint
The warship is in route to a location and mission that is secret. Only the Captain knows where the ship is going and why. Seaman Smith wants to trade the helm watch with Seaman Jones. The Captain has hand selected the crew for their individual strengths. The request for the seamen to trade watches is denied by the Captain because he knows that very soon they will be doing something that Seaman Smith’s special skills will be needed for. The Captain doesn’t explain, he just denies the request.
That kind of assumes that the crew accept the authority of the captain and are prepared to blindly follow his orders withour question and that he has the path to god. Not terribly well expressed but It's late at night and my brain is turning to mush
posted by accountable
I was taught as a child that Jesus is the son of God and that His Word is that of God. I believed it because I was a child. If I had been told the story as an adult, I would never believe it. I now choose to hang on to that belief with childlike faith. However, I recognize that the entire Bible is a creation of Man, and any parallels with God's Word is coincidence.
Kind if says it all in a way. To have faith you must believe blindly as a child does without question. I don't but appreciate other people do, doesn't bother me so long as they leave me out of their conflicts.
As a child i got in to trouble at sunday school, (free church of scotland, three hours of misery every sunday) the story of Job and the way god treated him. When asked what we thought i got in to trouble for saying I thought god was a nasty **** to treat a loyal follower like that. I thought it a reasonable point of view and not the least bit cheeky even if it did leave the minister speechless.
JC and the god of the old testament could not be one and the same if it is god is schzophrenic.
See above bear in mind I am not trying to wind you up here.
The warship is in route to a location and mission that is secret. Only the Captain knows where the ship is going and why. Seaman Smith wants to trade the helm watch with Seaman Jones. The Captain has hand selected the crew for their individual strengths. The request for the seamen to trade watches is denied by the Captain because he knows that very soon they will be doing something that Seaman Smith’s special skills will be needed for. The Captain doesn’t explain, he just denies the request.
That kind of assumes that the crew accept the authority of the captain and are prepared to blindly follow his orders withour question and that he has the path to god. Not terribly well expressed but It's late at night and my brain is turning to mush
posted by accountable
I was taught as a child that Jesus is the son of God and that His Word is that of God. I believed it because I was a child. If I had been told the story as an adult, I would never believe it. I now choose to hang on to that belief with childlike faith. However, I recognize that the entire Bible is a creation of Man, and any parallels with God's Word is coincidence.
Kind if says it all in a way. To have faith you must believe blindly as a child does without question. I don't but appreciate other people do, doesn't bother me so long as they leave me out of their conflicts.
As a child i got in to trouble at sunday school, (free church of scotland, three hours of misery every sunday) the story of Job and the way god treated him. When asked what we thought i got in to trouble for saying I thought god was a nasty **** to treat a loyal follower like that. I thought it a reasonable point of view and not the least bit cheeky even if it did leave the minister speechless.
JC and the god of the old testament could not be one and the same if it is god is schzophrenic.
See above bear in mind I am not trying to wind you up here.
Was Katrina Sent by God?
gmc wrote: posted by clint
That kind of assumes that the crew accept the authority of the captain and are prepared to blindly follow his orders withour question and that he has the path to god. Not terribly well expressed but It's late at night and my brain is turning to mush
posted by accountable
Kind if says it all in a way. To have faith you must believe blindly as a child does without question. I don't but appreciate other people do, doesn't bother me so long as they leave me out of their conflicts.
As a child i got in to trouble at sunday school, (free church of scotland, three hours of misery every sunday) the story of Job and the way god treated him. When asked what we thought i got in to trouble for saying I thought god was a nasty **** to treat a loyal follower like that. I thought it a reasonable point of view and not the least bit cheeky even if it did leave the minister speechless.
JC and the god of the old testament could not be one and the same if it is god is schzophrenic.
See above bear in mind I am not trying to wind you up here.
A ship captain is a leader. He has the confidence of his crew and those who put him in that position. He has a history of successful leadership or he wouldn’t be in that position.
When it comes to comparing the captain to God I admit it doesn’t do complete justice to God. God has, in my view a record of success that a captain could never ascend to. His followers are able to see His track record and put their faith in Him for that reason.
Job wasn’t all that loyal a follower. He routinely challenged God with an attitude that his ways were better than God’s. At the end of his ordeal he realized why God permitted Satan to do what he did and repented. God then restored all he had had and blessed him even more.
Okay, I won't get wound up.:wah:
That kind of assumes that the crew accept the authority of the captain and are prepared to blindly follow his orders withour question and that he has the path to god. Not terribly well expressed but It's late at night and my brain is turning to mush
posted by accountable
Kind if says it all in a way. To have faith you must believe blindly as a child does without question. I don't but appreciate other people do, doesn't bother me so long as they leave me out of their conflicts.
As a child i got in to trouble at sunday school, (free church of scotland, three hours of misery every sunday) the story of Job and the way god treated him. When asked what we thought i got in to trouble for saying I thought god was a nasty **** to treat a loyal follower like that. I thought it a reasonable point of view and not the least bit cheeky even if it did leave the minister speechless.
JC and the god of the old testament could not be one and the same if it is god is schzophrenic.
See above bear in mind I am not trying to wind you up here.
A ship captain is a leader. He has the confidence of his crew and those who put him in that position. He has a history of successful leadership or he wouldn’t be in that position.
When it comes to comparing the captain to God I admit it doesn’t do complete justice to God. God has, in my view a record of success that a captain could never ascend to. His followers are able to see His track record and put their faith in Him for that reason.
Job wasn’t all that loyal a follower. He routinely challenged God with an attitude that his ways were better than God’s. At the end of his ordeal he realized why God permitted Satan to do what he did and repented. God then restored all he had had and blessed him even more.
Okay, I won't get wound up.:wah:
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
Was Katrina Sent by God?
posted by clint
Job wasn’t all that loyal a follower. He routinely challenged God with an attitude that his ways were better than God’s. At the end of his ordeal he realized why God permitted Satan to do what he did and repented. God then restored all he had had and blessed him even more.
Okay, I won't get wound up.
So he wouldn't follow blindly, neitherv would I.
Faith is one of these areas where I think we will never agree but should always talk about.
A ship captain is a leader. He has the confidence of his crew and those who put him in that position. He has a history of successful leadership or he wouldn’t be in that position.
A ship's captain is a skill where expertise can be gained and the goal is simple.
How about comparing god to a politician? Just because he has been put in charge does not mean he shopuld be followed blindly. Like god a politician has his own goals that he must persuade people to help him achieve. One of the ways to do so is dream up means to stop people questioning his right to lead. Don't question it's heresy. Don't question it's unpatriotic:sneaky:
Job wasn’t all that loyal a follower. He routinely challenged God with an attitude that his ways were better than God’s. At the end of his ordeal he realized why God permitted Satan to do what he did and repented. God then restored all he had had and blessed him even more.
Okay, I won't get wound up.
So he wouldn't follow blindly, neitherv would I.
Faith is one of these areas where I think we will never agree but should always talk about.
A ship captain is a leader. He has the confidence of his crew and those who put him in that position. He has a history of successful leadership or he wouldn’t be in that position.
A ship's captain is a skill where expertise can be gained and the goal is simple.
How about comparing god to a politician? Just because he has been put in charge does not mean he shopuld be followed blindly. Like god a politician has his own goals that he must persuade people to help him achieve. One of the ways to do so is dream up means to stop people questioning his right to lead. Don't question it's heresy. Don't question it's unpatriotic:sneaky:
Was Katrina Sent by God?
just like 9-11, Katrina was predicted by Chuck Pierce...a well known prophet...he wrote a book about these things "before" they happened....repeating what God had shown him and told him....amazing ...the books name is something I can not remember now...it begins 'Releasing the Prophetic Destiny'....co writer is Dutch Sheets...available at any Christian book store...
By the way they found the name Katrina means 'Purify".....I am glad that we don't know all of Gods plans...we would be ''forced" to believe and work to be like HIM...one of the prophecies is that the Spirit of God will invade St.Louis and it will be 'shaken' ... I hope someone else has news about this...I find it very interesting.....:-6
By the way they found the name Katrina means 'Purify".....I am glad that we don't know all of Gods plans...we would be ''forced" to believe and work to be like HIM...one of the prophecies is that the Spirit of God will invade St.Louis and it will be 'shaken' ... I hope someone else has news about this...I find it very interesting.....:-6
Preach the gospel at all times and if necessary use words..:driving: .a thought home.
Was Katrina Sent by God?
postede by skeeter
just like 9-11, Katrina was predicted by Chuck Pierce...a well known prophet...he wrote a book about these things "before" they happened....repeating what God had shown him and told him....amazing ...the books name is something I can not remember now...it begins 'Releasing the Prophetic Destiny'....co writer is Dutch Sheets...available at any Christian book store...
By the way they found the name Katrina means 'Purify".....I am glad that we don't know all of Gods plans...we would be ''forced" to believe and work to be like HIM...one of the prophecies is that the Spirit of God will invade St.Louis and it will be 'shaken' ... I hope someone else has news about this...I find it very interesting....
Kept very quiet about it then. If he specified time, date and event it might be impressive.
Mind you lots of environmentalists have been predicting more and fiercer hurricanes for a while but then nobody thinks they can predict the future with any certainty so they get ignored.
New orleans was built under sea level so how hard is it to predict a flood at some point. My understanding is the authorities there ordered an evacuation
There have also been severe typhoons in the pacific-did he foresee them as well
As to the name-did you check yourself as to the meaning or just take "their" word for it?
Having said that i have a translation of nostradamus that contains a reference that could be taken to mean new york, bu like all these things it inly seems applicable with hindsight and a vivid amount of imagination.
just like 9-11, Katrina was predicted by Chuck Pierce...a well known prophet...he wrote a book about these things "before" they happened....repeating what God had shown him and told him....amazing ...the books name is something I can not remember now...it begins 'Releasing the Prophetic Destiny'....co writer is Dutch Sheets...available at any Christian book store...
By the way they found the name Katrina means 'Purify".....I am glad that we don't know all of Gods plans...we would be ''forced" to believe and work to be like HIM...one of the prophecies is that the Spirit of God will invade St.Louis and it will be 'shaken' ... I hope someone else has news about this...I find it very interesting....
Kept very quiet about it then. If he specified time, date and event it might be impressive.
Mind you lots of environmentalists have been predicting more and fiercer hurricanes for a while but then nobody thinks they can predict the future with any certainty so they get ignored.
New orleans was built under sea level so how hard is it to predict a flood at some point. My understanding is the authorities there ordered an evacuation
There have also been severe typhoons in the pacific-did he foresee them as well
As to the name-did you check yourself as to the meaning or just take "their" word for it?
Having said that i have a translation of nostradamus that contains a reference that could be taken to mean new york, bu like all these things it inly seems applicable with hindsight and a vivid amount of imagination.
Was Katrina Sent by God?
My heart goes out to those affected by Katarina.
But blame God....if you believe then he is responsible for all good and evil.
If you don't believe then maybe it was just a probability thing.
But blame God....if you believe then he is responsible for all good and evil.
If you don't believe then maybe it was just a probability thing.
Was Katrina Sent by God?
I don't think that one can blame God for natural disaster. They happen so does: Illnes, car accidents, rain flooding rivers etc. They are part of life.
We do not necessarily pray for release from such disasters but the personal fortitude to cope wiith them and their outcome regardless of what it is.
Shalom
Ted:-6
We do not necessarily pray for release from such disasters but the personal fortitude to cope wiith them and their outcome regardless of what it is.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Was Katrina Sent by God?
Bez;123521 wrote: I was bought up as a Christian and have lived my life by the 10 Commandments. I have recently been studying Buddhism, but not long enough to put a Buddhist point of view to the question. I do know that Buddhists have no fear of Death. It would be interesting to have a Buddhist point of view if we have one in the garden...or any other religion come to that.
Hi! I've been a Buddhist for a decade. Just as there is really no one Jewish point of view or Christian point of view, the Buddhist perspective varies from one person to the next, but a major tenant of our faith is the belief that death and suffering are a part of life; it's no one's fault -- just part of the dynamics of the universe. How we deal with such difficulties is what's really important.
I must add, in case any readers are unclear, that the opinion of the religious leader in Israel is abhorrent to most Jews, who do not believe in a literal Old-Testament God of Retribution, but rather are devoted to humanistic values. And considering God's message to Job that man was not capable of truly comprehending the will and actions of God, I find it supremely presumptuous for this person to claim personal knowledge that it was the will of God.
NO was destroyed because the levees failed. Lots of men are to blame for this, but to attribute the tragedy to God is blasphemous.
Hi! I've been a Buddhist for a decade. Just as there is really no one Jewish point of view or Christian point of view, the Buddhist perspective varies from one person to the next, but a major tenant of our faith is the belief that death and suffering are a part of life; it's no one's fault -- just part of the dynamics of the universe. How we deal with such difficulties is what's really important.
I must add, in case any readers are unclear, that the opinion of the religious leader in Israel is abhorrent to most Jews, who do not believe in a literal Old-Testament God of Retribution, but rather are devoted to humanistic values. And considering God's message to Job that man was not capable of truly comprehending the will and actions of God, I find it supremely presumptuous for this person to claim personal knowledge that it was the will of God.
NO was destroyed because the levees failed. Lots of men are to blame for this, but to attribute the tragedy to God is blasphemous.