littleCJelkton;1347979 wrote: I have read it I have a catholic uncle, and born again uncle, like you wont shut up about it.
All the more curious why you have come on here to debate with People who Know God! Why? Can't argue with your family?
If you have truly read all the Bible, what is your understanding of the two seperate lights in the creation section of Genesis?
Also why not check out the you tube video "Kindom of the antichrist" by a man ( former muslim terrorist) who has really read the Bible in depth
Bless you
Creationism?
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freethinkingthuthseeker
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freethinkingthuthseeker
- Posts: 245
- Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:22 pm
Creationism?
littleCJelkton;1347944 wrote: Your going to have to be specific here are you asking, about gay marriage, God, creation vs evolution, atheism, christianity, budhism, islam, the health care bill, the deficit
Specifics
Life, The iniverse and everything
Specifics
Life, The iniverse and everything
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freethinkingthuthseeker
- Posts: 245
- Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:22 pm
Creationism?
yaaarrrgg;1347959 wrote: So there is no intelligence used on your part, when it comes to picking a mate? 
I do try to keep it within the same species at least and that does not include "cousins"
I do try to keep it within the same species at least and that does not include "cousins"
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freethinkingthuthseeker
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- Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:22 pm
Creationism?
yaaarrrgg;1347966 wrote: That doesn't answer the question.
Yes it does we humans have an incredibly complex set of DNA and RNA and it is actually the RNA that is now proving to be the most significant in many terms of design, appearance and behaviour as far as I currently understand.
You have also not answered questions I have posed such as who wrote the codes
how do the simplest single cell animals self assemble?
where did the amino acids come from
for example
Yes it does we humans have an incredibly complex set of DNA and RNA and it is actually the RNA that is now proving to be the most significant in many terms of design, appearance and behaviour as far as I currently understand.
You have also not answered questions I have posed such as who wrote the codes
how do the simplest single cell animals self assemble?
where did the amino acids come from
for example
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freethinkingthuthseeker
- Posts: 245
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Creationism?
yaaarrrgg;1347967 wrote: Sorry but the macro/micro evolution distinction was invented by young earth creationists. Add up enough micro evolution (small changes) over a long time, and you get macro evolution (large changes).
Yes but there is not a scrap of evidence that one separate species emerged from another so you cannot reasonably throw that into the evolutionary theory debate let alone anything else
Yes but there is not a scrap of evidence that one separate species emerged from another so you cannot reasonably throw that into the evolutionary theory debate let alone anything else
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littleCJelkton
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Creationism?
freethinkingthuthseeker;1347975 wrote: So how do you check and double check and verify everything? By the opinions of others? How would they earn your respect?
Does your respect equate to you trusting them with your life?
How can you personally confirm that they are even alive without actually being in a room with them?
My subjective experience is rich indeed
God bless you
Is gettting all your information from a 2000-3000 year old book and only science that verifies how you interpret that book is valid as fact better? Though please continue moving the goal post with the you think, I think BS that has become the staple of you Crusaders for Christianity/God/Creationism/ect.., in the hopes that your circles will some how cope us to giving in to this craziness.
All this post and others like it are going to do is convince me and most everyone else that views this post is the blatent insanity in upholding aging beiliefs of God/Christianity/Creationism/the bible/quran/ect.., unless like your totally out there like Mikey who has evolved the I think, you think, strategy to I am going to post this but not care what you think but reply to what you think I think, because if I dont like what you think I think I will talk about it though I dont care if you think like I think or not.
Does your respect equate to you trusting them with your life?
How can you personally confirm that they are even alive without actually being in a room with them?
My subjective experience is rich indeed
God bless you
Is gettting all your information from a 2000-3000 year old book and only science that verifies how you interpret that book is valid as fact better? Though please continue moving the goal post with the you think, I think BS that has become the staple of you Crusaders for Christianity/God/Creationism/ect.., in the hopes that your circles will some how cope us to giving in to this craziness.
All this post and others like it are going to do is convince me and most everyone else that views this post is the blatent insanity in upholding aging beiliefs of God/Christianity/Creationism/the bible/quran/ect.., unless like your totally out there like Mikey who has evolved the I think, you think, strategy to I am going to post this but not care what you think but reply to what you think I think, because if I dont like what you think I think I will talk about it though I dont care if you think like I think or not.
Creationism?
freethinkingthuthseeker;1347985 wrote: Yes it does we humans have an incredibly complex set of DNA and RNA and it is actually the RNA that is now proving to be the most significant in many terms of design, appearance and behaviour as far as I currently understand.
You have also not answered questions I have posed such as who wrote the codes
how do the simplest single cell animals self assemble?
where did the amino acids come from
for example
All you need is one self-replicating molecule to get the ball rolling. The Universe has been around for a while, making small odds of even unlikely events possible.
If you want to be happy with your own view, you can say God got the ball rolling.
You have also not answered questions I have posed such as who wrote the codes
how do the simplest single cell animals self assemble?
where did the amino acids come from
for example
All you need is one self-replicating molecule to get the ball rolling. The Universe has been around for a while, making small odds of even unlikely events possible.
If you want to be happy with your own view, you can say God got the ball rolling.
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freethinkingthuthseeker
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- Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:22 pm
Creationism?
yaaarrrgg;1347971 wrote: If you want to go the route of reinterpreting Genesis, you can equally take a deistic approach. You can say he got the ball rolling (designing the mechanisms for physics and evolution) and then stepped back and "rested." Meaning adopted a hands off approach. By designing the organisms, you might interpret this to mean the mechanisms that would give rise to these things.
My point is even on theological grounds you can't rule out evolution. All you can conclude is that some interpretations of the stories are incompatible with science, some are not.
I have almost no argument with you here but I do emphatically rule out Man from the evolutionary idea. We are not simple animals we are complex because we are made in God's image (not as some hold about appearance).
Our creative Spirit comes from God and have we not done incredible feats.
God does not have a hands off approach as is made clear in scripture, however he does give all creation - Mankind and Angels - free choice but the end tijes tell he will defend Israel and destro any who try to destroy it. Israel is not just the geography, it is all the people who have been saved and become The Church body and want to know our Lord
My point is even on theological grounds you can't rule out evolution. All you can conclude is that some interpretations of the stories are incompatible with science, some are not.
I have almost no argument with you here but I do emphatically rule out Man from the evolutionary idea. We are not simple animals we are complex because we are made in God's image (not as some hold about appearance).
Our creative Spirit comes from God and have we not done incredible feats.
God does not have a hands off approach as is made clear in scripture, however he does give all creation - Mankind and Angels - free choice but the end tijes tell he will defend Israel and destro any who try to destroy it. Israel is not just the geography, it is all the people who have been saved and become The Church body and want to know our Lord
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freethinkingthuthseeker
- Posts: 245
- Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:22 pm
Creationism?
yaaarrrgg;1347972 wrote: Talk about moving the goal posts
Good to see some humour here
Bless you
Good to see some humour here
Bless you
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littleCJelkton
- Posts: 1215
- Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:57 pm
Creationism?
freethinkingthuthseeker;1347980 wrote: Can't argue with your family?
Bless you
why is this a queation why can't someone argue with family?
Bless you
why is this a queation why can't someone argue with family?
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freethinkingthuthseeker
- Posts: 245
- Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:22 pm
Creationism?
s gettting all your information from a 2000-3000 year old book and only science that verifies how you interpret that book is valid as fact better? Though please continue moving the goal post with the you think, I think BS that has become the staple of you Crusaders for Christianity/God/Creationism/ect.., in the hopes that your circles will some how cope us to giving in to this craziness.
I only truly accept science that I have experienced, how is that for empiricism? Age is a very poor and spurious argument against the validity of anything, After all, isn't fossils that you depend on for your faith?
All this post and others like it are going to do is convince me and most everyone else
What makes you think you speak for everybody else?
that views this post is the blatent insanity i
Prove it is INSANE!
n upholding aging beiliefs of God/Christianity/Creationism/the bible/quran/ect.., unless like your totally out there like Mikey who has evolved the I think, you think, strategy to I am going to post this but not care what you think but reply to what you think I think, because if I dont like what you think I think I will talk about it though I dont care if you think like I think or not.
you appear to be living up to what you are criticising for you have ignored several questions from me. Are you OK?
I only truly accept science that I have experienced, how is that for empiricism? Age is a very poor and spurious argument against the validity of anything, After all, isn't fossils that you depend on for your faith?
All this post and others like it are going to do is convince me and most everyone else
What makes you think you speak for everybody else?
that views this post is the blatent insanity i
Prove it is INSANE!
n upholding aging beiliefs of God/Christianity/Creationism/the bible/quran/ect.., unless like your totally out there like Mikey who has evolved the I think, you think, strategy to I am going to post this but not care what you think but reply to what you think I think, because if I dont like what you think I think I will talk about it though I dont care if you think like I think or not.
you appear to be living up to what you are criticising for you have ignored several questions from me. Are you OK?
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freethinkingthuthseeker
- Posts: 245
- Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:22 pm
Creationism?
yaaarrrgg;1347989 wrote: All you need is one self-replicating molecule to get the ball rolling. The Universe has been around for a while, making small odds of even unlikely events possible.
If you want to be happy with your own view, you can say God got the ball rolling.
yes but according to sciences estimate of the age of the earth - where all life is - it is considerably younger and where does the molecule come from?
Futhermore, nobody knows if the rate of radioactive decay was the same 10,000 years as it is today. No scientist will ever reach a conclusion on what happened prior to the "big bang" which is also a misnomer although it seems to be clear that it did come from a singularlty! Self replicating? That cannot be the beginning of life.
However it is Glorious that the simplist cells around today somehow self assemble into several amzingly harmonious parts to function.
We are back to who or what got the ball rolling!
If you want to be happy with your own view, you can say God got the ball rolling.
yes but according to sciences estimate of the age of the earth - where all life is - it is considerably younger and where does the molecule come from?
Futhermore, nobody knows if the rate of radioactive decay was the same 10,000 years as it is today. No scientist will ever reach a conclusion on what happened prior to the "big bang" which is also a misnomer although it seems to be clear that it did come from a singularlty! Self replicating? That cannot be the beginning of life.
However it is Glorious that the simplist cells around today somehow self assemble into several amzingly harmonious parts to function.
We are back to who or what got the ball rolling!
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freethinkingthuthseeker
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- Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:22 pm
Creationism?
littleCJelkton;1347993 wrote: why is this a queation why can't someone argue with family?
I was merely asking you why you have come to this thread you posted as if it was torture to have relatives who believe in God
I was merely asking you why you have come to this thread you posted as if it was torture to have relatives who believe in God
Creationism?
freethinkingthuthseeker;1347991 wrote: I have almost no argument with you here but I do emphatically rule out Man from the evolutionary idea. We are not simple animals we are complex because we are made in God's image (not as some hold about appearance).
Couldn't an animal have been an intermediate step?
dirt -> god breathes living soul -> human
vs:
dirt -> cells -> ... -> primate -> god breathes living soul -> human
I'm not seeing any theological advantage to insisting we are walking talking dirt. Is it any more or less demeaning for God to breathe a soul into a pile of dirt or a primate animal?
Couldn't an animal have been an intermediate step?
dirt -> god breathes living soul -> human
vs:
dirt -> cells -> ... -> primate -> god breathes living soul -> human
I'm not seeing any theological advantage to insisting we are walking talking dirt. Is it any more or less demeaning for God to breathe a soul into a pile of dirt or a primate animal?
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littleCJelkton
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Creationism?
freethinkingthuthseeker;1348006 wrote: I was merely asking you why you have come to this thread you posted as if it was torture to have relatives who believe in God
I said nothing of torture they can have their beliefs, but keep it to there selves. Why did you come to this thread I have been commenting on this thread for a while before you so has Yaarg and Ahso? Originally to debate the credibillity of what was posted on said thread, but as with similar threads to this one it becomes less about facts and evidence and more about who can move the goal post and play the He thinks, I thinks, you think, run you in circles game the longest. Since debates on matters like this have become so immature that is why I approach them as such. To come here and ask why I am here when I have been at this thread longer makes no sense but were not trying to do that are we, so let the cirlce making I think you think, yes you did, no I didn't game commence. Like my family members that are it shows that they either a.) don't have a high education or, B) are heavily endowed with their faith and to biased to make any logical well rounded judgment when it comes to determining fact from fiction in things that are contradictory to their religion.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/114544/darwi ... ution.aspx
I said nothing of torture they can have their beliefs, but keep it to there selves. Why did you come to this thread I have been commenting on this thread for a while before you so has Yaarg and Ahso? Originally to debate the credibillity of what was posted on said thread, but as with similar threads to this one it becomes less about facts and evidence and more about who can move the goal post and play the He thinks, I thinks, you think, run you in circles game the longest. Since debates on matters like this have become so immature that is why I approach them as such. To come here and ask why I am here when I have been at this thread longer makes no sense but were not trying to do that are we, so let the cirlce making I think you think, yes you did, no I didn't game commence. Like my family members that are it shows that they either a.) don't have a high education or, B) are heavily endowed with their faith and to biased to make any logical well rounded judgment when it comes to determining fact from fiction in things that are contradictory to their religion.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/114544/darwi ... ution.aspx
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littleCJelkton
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Creationism?
freethinkingthuthseeker;1348006 wrote: I was merely asking you why you have come to this thread you posted as if it was torture to have relatives who believe in God
Why do you come to this thread as if you are tortured by those who don't believe in god?
Why do you come to this thread as if you are tortured by those who don't believe in god?
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freethinkingthuthseeker
- Posts: 245
- Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:22 pm
Creationism?
yaaarrrgg;1348015 wrote: Couldn't an animal have been an intermediate step?
dirt -> god breathes living soul -> human
vs:
dirt -> cells -> ... -> primate -> god breathes living soul -> human
I'm not seeing any theological advantage to insisting we are walking talking dirt. Is it any more or less demeaning for God to breathe a soul into a pile of dirt or a primate animal?
You are talking of Flesh but we are not bodies, we have bodies, but we are Spiritual beings, hence in God's image
dirt -> god breathes living soul -> human
vs:
dirt -> cells -> ... -> primate -> god breathes living soul -> human
I'm not seeing any theological advantage to insisting we are walking talking dirt. Is it any more or less demeaning for God to breathe a soul into a pile of dirt or a primate animal?
You are talking of Flesh but we are not bodies, we have bodies, but we are Spiritual beings, hence in God's image
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freethinkingthuthseeker
- Posts: 245
- Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:22 pm
Creationism?
littleCJelkton;1348037 wrote: I said nothing of torture they can have their beliefs, but keep it to there selves. Why did you come to this thread I have been commenting on this thread for a while before you so has Yaarg and Ahso? Originally to debate the credibillity of what was posted on said thread, but as with similar threads to this one it becomes less about facts and evidence and more about who can move the goal post and play the He thinks, I thinks, you think, run you in circles game the longest. Since debates on matters like this have become so immature that is why I approach them as such. To come here and ask why I am here when I have been at this thread longer makes no sense but were not trying to do that are we, so let the cirlce making I think you think, yes you did, no I didn't game commence. Like my family members that are it shows that they either a.) don't have a high education or, B) are heavily endowed with their faith and to biased to make any logical well rounded judgment when it comes to determining fact from fiction in things that are contradictory to their religion.
On Darwin
What has how long one has been using this thread got to do with anything? You want your family to keep their views to themselves yet you wish to come on here and try to break others beliefs.
May I ask why?
In what sense have a moved goalposts? examples please.
I have stated that I believe in a degree of evolution as do many Christian scientists but the case has not been made for Man coming from other animals whatsoever and I invite you to show me proof to the contrary.
As you are so keen on posting links
why not check out this one: The BioLogos Forum
Bless you
On Darwin
What has how long one has been using this thread got to do with anything? You want your family to keep their views to themselves yet you wish to come on here and try to break others beliefs.
May I ask why?
In what sense have a moved goalposts? examples please.
I have stated that I believe in a degree of evolution as do many Christian scientists but the case has not been made for Man coming from other animals whatsoever and I invite you to show me proof to the contrary.
As you are so keen on posting links
why not check out this one: The BioLogos Forum
Bless you
Creationism?
freethinkingthuthseeker;1348043 wrote: You are talking of Flesh but we are not bodies, we have bodies, but we are Spiritual beings, hence in God's imageYou haven't heard yet? What you and the ancients call spirit and soul is in fact activity occurring in different regions of the brain. Look, the myths you hold to have assisted in the survival of our species, and that's great, but we're now moving beyond all that, we're evolving. Fortunately for the good of the species, you and I will die so the evolutionary process can continue without us dragging old myths and habits on for too long. This is why death and rebirth is necessary, it assists in evolution.
I know you don't get any of that, but I figured I'd say it anyway. It really isn't necessary to respond, it's not like not understanding life's actual truths and facts will harm you in any way. Carry on with your beliefs and enjoy your holiday.
I know you don't get any of that, but I figured I'd say it anyway. It really isn't necessary to respond, it's not like not understanding life's actual truths and facts will harm you in any way. Carry on with your beliefs and enjoy your holiday.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
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littleCJelkton
- Posts: 1215
- Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:57 pm
Creationism?
Why is something Peter, Paul, Abraham, or Moses wrote down more factual than; Einstein, Gallileo, Coppernicus, Pythagoras, Newton , or Darwin. Considering what Einstein, Gallieleo, and the others continues to be physically demonstrated to be true or partially true time and time again, by natural law, or other scientist. Where one has to take the word of a priest, or Pope, that what Peter, Paul, or Moses wrote down is true, then on top off that one has to take Peter's, Paul's, or Moses's word that there actually is a God, and that God is a conscious being, and that God only speaks to them and tells them to tell us what God wills with out ever demonstrating God's exsistence, or that God is a conscious being as compared to an inanimate energy. or why God speaks to this person or that person and not others.
You Nuts of the Three "One true Faiths" always are asking for proofs that are plain to see and can be demonstrated physicaly or through math, Yet ask, want, and/or imply others to blindly believe things that can't.
You Nuts of the Three "One true Faiths" always are asking for proofs that are plain to see and can be demonstrated physicaly or through math, Yet ask, want, and/or imply others to blindly believe things that can't.
Creationism?
freethinkingthuthseeker;1348043 wrote: You are talking of Flesh but we are not bodies, we have bodies, but we are Spiritual beings, hence in God's image
I will suppose that is true. Why then does the origin our bodies even matter in Christianity? Does it have any theological significance if the body comes from dirt or primates?
What matters in Christianity is the soul, not the dirt and/or primate container for it.
To me, it seems like some Christians are digging their heals in the ground on a point that has no theological significance, tossing out hundreds of years of scientific research in the process.
I will suppose that is true. Why then does the origin our bodies even matter in Christianity? Does it have any theological significance if the body comes from dirt or primates?
What matters in Christianity is the soul, not the dirt and/or primate container for it.
To me, it seems like some Christians are digging their heals in the ground on a point that has no theological significance, tossing out hundreds of years of scientific research in the process.
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freethinkingthuthseeker
- Posts: 245
- Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:22 pm
Creationism?
Ahso!;1348052 wrote: You haven't heard yet? What you and the ancients call spirit and soul is in fact activity occurring in different regions of the brain. Look, the myths you hold to have assisted in the survival of our species, and that's great, but we're now moving beyond all that, we're evolving. Fortunately for the good of the species, you and I will die so the evolutionary process can continue without us dragging old myths and habits on for too long. This is why death and rebirth is necessary, it assists in evolution.
I know you don't get any of that, but I figured I'd say it anyway. It really isn't necessary to respond, it's not like not understanding life's actual truths and facts will harm you in any way. Carry on with your beliefs and enjoy your holiday.
Thank you for your kind words, I repeat I do believe in provable evolution and add I have respect for all applied science with a few exceptions , guns, bombs etc. but I gather from you now that you do not recognize a difference between the brain and the Mind. Is that correct?
What, in your Opinion, is Life's actual truths? Does Loving one another count here? Does respecting life count? What is the truth about where everything we know came from?
what is your truth about how the spark of life occurred on this beautiful planet?
Will science ever square the challenges of quantum and macro physics?
Is it not the case that they already coexist in amazing harmony?
What is your truth about the origins of Love, altruism creativity in man, self assembly in the simplest organisms?
do you wish for a serious interchange of ideas or not?
God bless you
I know you don't get any of that, but I figured I'd say it anyway. It really isn't necessary to respond, it's not like not understanding life's actual truths and facts will harm you in any way. Carry on with your beliefs and enjoy your holiday.
Thank you for your kind words, I repeat I do believe in provable evolution and add I have respect for all applied science with a few exceptions , guns, bombs etc. but I gather from you now that you do not recognize a difference between the brain and the Mind. Is that correct?
What, in your Opinion, is Life's actual truths? Does Loving one another count here? Does respecting life count? What is the truth about where everything we know came from?
what is your truth about how the spark of life occurred on this beautiful planet?
Will science ever square the challenges of quantum and macro physics?
Is it not the case that they already coexist in amazing harmony?
What is your truth about the origins of Love, altruism creativity in man, self assembly in the simplest organisms?
do you wish for a serious interchange of ideas or not?
God bless you
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freethinkingthuthseeker
- Posts: 245
- Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:22 pm
Creationism?
yaaarrrgg;1348099 wrote: I will suppose that is true. Why then does the origin our bodies even matter in Christianity? Does it have any theological significance if the body comes from dirt or primates?
What matters in Christianity is the soul, not the dirt and/or primate container for it.
To me, it seems like some Christians are digging their heals in the ground on a point that has no theological significance, tossing out hundreds of years of scientific research in the process.
The Bible explains that our Body is a host for us and we should treat it with respect and also warns us against ways of the flesh which can become corrupting and in too may cases, percieved to be adictive, I know that the power of belief in things about oneself is strong and also by WORD what we decalre about ourselves is powerful in shaping our behaviour, But in Truth, there is really no such thing as true physical addiction
What matters in Christianity is the soul, not the dirt and/or primate container for it.
To me, it seems like some Christians are digging their heals in the ground on a point that has no theological significance, tossing out hundreds of years of scientific research in the process.
The Bible explains that our Body is a host for us and we should treat it with respect and also warns us against ways of the flesh which can become corrupting and in too may cases, percieved to be adictive, I know that the power of belief in things about oneself is strong and also by WORD what we decalre about ourselves is powerful in shaping our behaviour, But in Truth, there is really no such thing as true physical addiction
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littleCJelkton
- Posts: 1215
- Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:57 pm
Creationism?
freethinkingthuthseeker;1348136 wrote: The Bible explains that our Body is a host for us and we should treat it with respect and also warns us against ways of the flesh which can become corrupting and in too may cases, percieved to be adictive, I know that the power of belief in things about oneself is strong and also by WORD what we decalre about ourselves is powerful in shaping our behaviour, But in Truth, there is really no such thing as true physical addiction
here we go with the word stuff again
here we go with the word stuff again
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freethinkingthuthseeker
- Posts: 245
- Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:22 pm
Creationism?
[QUOTE=littleCJelkton;1348143]here we go with the word stuff again
Is that all you can say? I thought you wanted a discussion or a debate on these things.
Shame really
Bless you
Is that all you can say? I thought you wanted a discussion or a debate on these things.
Shame really
Bless you
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littleCJelkton
- Posts: 1215
- Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:57 pm
Creationism?
freethinkingthuthseeker;1348165 wrote: [QUOTE=littleCJelkton;1348143]here we go with the word stuff again
Is that all you can say? I thought you wanted a discussion or a debate on these things.
Shame really
Bless you
There is no debate or discussion. The evidence and facts that the "Word" or rather the book that the "Word" comes from is Fiction does not exist in your reality, and in mine the faith that you have to have that the book that the "Word" comes from is Non-Fiction doesn't exist.
Is that all you can say? I thought you wanted a discussion or a debate on these things.
Shame really
Bless you
There is no debate or discussion. The evidence and facts that the "Word" or rather the book that the "Word" comes from is Fiction does not exist in your reality, and in mine the faith that you have to have that the book that the "Word" comes from is Non-Fiction doesn't exist.
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freethinkingthuthseeker
- Posts: 245
- Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:22 pm
Creationism?
littleCJelkton;1348179 wrote: [QUOTE=freethinkingthuthseeker;1348165]
There is no debate or discussion. The evidence and facts that the "Word" or rather the book that the "Word" comes from is Fiction does not exist in your reality, and in mine the faith that you have to have that the book that the "Word" comes from is Non-Fiction doesn't exist.
So you are in effect stating that the Bible does not exist?
Curiouser and curiouser
There is no debate or discussion. The evidence and facts that the "Word" or rather the book that the "Word" comes from is Fiction does not exist in your reality, and in mine the faith that you have to have that the book that the "Word" comes from is Non-Fiction doesn't exist.
So you are in effect stating that the Bible does not exist?
Curiouser and curiouser
Creationism?
If I said that eternity has no beginning and no end, would anyone understand?
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littleCJelkton
- Posts: 1215
- Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:57 pm
Creationism?
freethinkingthuthseeker;1348376 wrote:
So you are in effect stating that the Bible does not exist?
Curiouser and curiouser
Wrong again! the bible exist, just in your reality it is the unalterd, tale of historical events wrote down as they happened some 1000-3000 years ago. In my reality they are based on very few actual events in history that over time were streched, glorified, changed, some stories cast out, others added and modified to make sure the general public that was kept in order taught morals/Right from wrong believed it.
So you are in effect stating that the Bible does not exist?
Curiouser and curiouser
Wrong again! the bible exist, just in your reality it is the unalterd, tale of historical events wrote down as they happened some 1000-3000 years ago. In my reality they are based on very few actual events in history that over time were streched, glorified, changed, some stories cast out, others added and modified to make sure the general public that was kept in order taught morals/Right from wrong believed it.
Creationism?
If, as the bible claims, Jesus is the only begotten son of god, and we are all god's children. Does that mean we are all female?
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freethinkingthuthseeker
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Creationism?
littleCJelkton;1348504 wrote: Wrong again! the bible exist, just in your reality it is the unalterd, tale of historical events wrote down as they happened some 1000-3000 years ago. In my reality they are based on very few actual events in history that over time were streched, glorified, changed, some stories cast out, others added and modified to make sure the general public that was kept in order taught morals/Right from wrong believed it.
You state that several parts of the Bible were added to and changed over time yet the dead sea scrolls which are so much older than todays Bible bear a wholly remarkable faithfulness to to todays Bible.
As for the reality of the words contained therein, it is far from a simple humaistic understanding, it is ,in many repects parabolised ( ulike for example, the quran) and deeply Spiritual lessons for mankind
You state that several parts of the Bible were added to and changed over time yet the dead sea scrolls which are so much older than todays Bible bear a wholly remarkable faithfulness to to todays Bible.
As for the reality of the words contained therein, it is far from a simple humaistic understanding, it is ,in many repects parabolised ( ulike for example, the quran) and deeply Spiritual lessons for mankind
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freethinkingthuthseeker
- Posts: 245
- Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:22 pm
Creationism?
gmc;1348515 wrote: If, as the bible claims, Jesus is the only begotten son of god, and we are all god's children. Does that mean we are all female?
No the emphasis in on the first two words, particualrly the second - Only BEGOTTEN
No the emphasis in on the first two words, particualrly the second - Only BEGOTTEN
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freethinkingthuthseeker
- Posts: 245
- Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:22 pm
Creationism?
littleCJelkton;1348504 wrote: Wrong again! the bible exist, just in your reality it is the unalterd, tale of historical events wrote down as they happened some 1000-3000 years ago. In my reality they are based on very few actual events in history that over time were streched, glorified, changed, some stories cast out, others added and modified to make sure the general public that was kept in order taught morals/Right from wrong believed it.
Isn't then very interesting that the Bible we have today concurrs so faithfull with the much older dead sea scrolls?
Isn't then very interesting that the Bible we have today concurrs so faithfull with the much older dead sea scrolls?
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littleCJelkton
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Creationism?
freethinkingthuthseeker;1348685 wrote: Isn't then very interesting that the Bible we have today concurrs so faithfull with the much older dead sea scrolls?
There you go again with that faith, faithful stuff which is exactly what I said, you have the "Faith" that what is in the dead sea scrollls, the bible, ect is an accout of historical events and words we should read as if we were being taught from a history book. Where as I see it as a fictional peice telling stretched truths in order to teach the masses Moral values and should be read as one reads a tall tale.
There you go again with that faith, faithful stuff which is exactly what I said, you have the "Faith" that what is in the dead sea scrollls, the bible, ect is an accout of historical events and words we should read as if we were being taught from a history book. Where as I see it as a fictional peice telling stretched truths in order to teach the masses Moral values and should be read as one reads a tall tale.
Creationism?
freethinkingthuthseeker;1348683 wrote: No the emphasis in on the first two words, particualrly the second - Only BEGOTTEN
Exactly the point. Beget means to generate or procreate. If Jesus is his only begotten son then all his other children must be female. If we are all the children of god presumably we were begotten by him so if he has only one son---
Isn't then very interesting that the Bible we have today concurrs so faithfull with the much older dead sea scrolls?
It was mainly the new testament that was carefully edited to make sure they contained the "correct" message to suit the purposes of the pope at the time. Have a look at the books of the new testament that were deleted if you want more information. Start with the ecumenical councils that set down what proper christian belief was going to be and set the ground rules for all the wars and terror that was to follow. For supposedly religious people you seem remarkably ignorant of church history never mind bible history. Are you a protestant? What are you protesting against, the number of the faithful to whom it doesn't occur to ask the question is truly amazing. They're just right and that's it.
The genesis story is a fable, anyone who doesn't understand that is an idiot.
Exactly the point. Beget means to generate or procreate. If Jesus is his only begotten son then all his other children must be female. If we are all the children of god presumably we were begotten by him so if he has only one son---
Isn't then very interesting that the Bible we have today concurrs so faithfull with the much older dead sea scrolls?
It was mainly the new testament that was carefully edited to make sure they contained the "correct" message to suit the purposes of the pope at the time. Have a look at the books of the new testament that were deleted if you want more information. Start with the ecumenical councils that set down what proper christian belief was going to be and set the ground rules for all the wars and terror that was to follow. For supposedly religious people you seem remarkably ignorant of church history never mind bible history. Are you a protestant? What are you protesting against, the number of the faithful to whom it doesn't occur to ask the question is truly amazing. They're just right and that's it.
The genesis story is a fable, anyone who doesn't understand that is an idiot.
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freethinkingthuthseeker
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- Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:22 pm
Creationism?
littleCJelkton;1348690 wrote: There you go again with that faith, faithful stuff which is exactly what I said, you have the "Faith" that what is in the dead sea scrollls, the bible, ect is an accout of historical events and words we should read as if we were being taught from a history book. Where as I see it as a fictional peice telling stretched truths in order to teach the masses Moral values and should be read as one reads a tall tale.
I see you selectively take a quote from me and ignore the rest of the context of what I have written, very convenient! You also critique in broad brush strokes without providing any examples of which parts of the Bible you believe to be corrupted in one way or another.
If you care to debate even humanistic logic, you will need to do a lot better
Bless you
I see you selectively take a quote from me and ignore the rest of the context of what I have written, very convenient! You also critique in broad brush strokes without providing any examples of which parts of the Bible you believe to be corrupted in one way or another.
If you care to debate even humanistic logic, you will need to do a lot better
Bless you
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freethinkingthuthseeker
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- Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:22 pm
Creationism?
gmc;1348725 wrote: Exactly the point. Beget means to generate or procreate. If Jesus is his only begotten son then all his other children must be female. If we are all the children of god presumably we were begotten by him so if he has only one son---
*** except that the words only or even only begotton as applied to Jesus and indeed to Abrahams son Isaac is unique and special in the older languages. Abraham for example already had a son called ishmael but he was not the only begootten of Abrahamam and it was applied to him as a special child from God from his wife who has old and barren.
It was mainly the new testament that was carefully edited to make sure they contained the "correct" message to suit the purposes of the pope at the time.
*** I do wonder about that sometimes but lets take account of the fact that at the times of Biblical compilation, the mass of people were illiterate and only the upper hierarchy of the emerging “ Church” were literate enough to undertand what was written and of they were corruptive it wouldn’t have mattered what was contained in the God book.
Have a look at the books of the new testament that were deleted if you want more information.
*** I have and am also aware that through modern credible age testing the 4 Gospels and the letters of John, peter and Paul were the closest in age to the end of Jesus’ Mission on earth.
Start with the ecumenical councils that set down what proper Christian belief was going to be and set the ground rules for all the wars and terror that was to follow.
*** Misapplication and deep misunderstanding of the Word are the sole reasons for the wars and terror that followed and even in today’s new testament we can clearly see that the examples of Jesus and the Apostles highly non violent ways to bring people to know God. In fact with reference to the NT, I am unclear which parts of the Bible you believe justify such actions.
For supposedly religious people you seem remarkably ignorant of church history never mind bible history.
*** on what evidence do you base this assumption?
Are you a protestant?
*** I am not a catholic by common understanding but have kinship with Charismatic Catholics.
I am not religious so does that make me a protestant?
What are you protesting against,
*** I only protest against the devils works
The number of the faithful to whom it doesn't occur to ask the question is truly amazing. They're just right and that's it.
*** I am more than willing to discuss why I believe any theological aspect of the Truth any time. I do not believe in baldly stating that it is by Faith alone that I know God and wish to Love God fully
The genesis story is a fable, anyone who doesn't understand that is an idiot.
When you refer to Genesis, are you merely refering to the creation account or the whole book of Genisies?
Either way I am happy to tell you whayt I have learnt about it, even verse by verse.
Bless you
*** except that the words only or even only begotton as applied to Jesus and indeed to Abrahams son Isaac is unique and special in the older languages. Abraham for example already had a son called ishmael but he was not the only begootten of Abrahamam and it was applied to him as a special child from God from his wife who has old and barren.
It was mainly the new testament that was carefully edited to make sure they contained the "correct" message to suit the purposes of the pope at the time.
*** I do wonder about that sometimes but lets take account of the fact that at the times of Biblical compilation, the mass of people were illiterate and only the upper hierarchy of the emerging “ Church” were literate enough to undertand what was written and of they were corruptive it wouldn’t have mattered what was contained in the God book.
Have a look at the books of the new testament that were deleted if you want more information.
*** I have and am also aware that through modern credible age testing the 4 Gospels and the letters of John, peter and Paul were the closest in age to the end of Jesus’ Mission on earth.
Start with the ecumenical councils that set down what proper Christian belief was going to be and set the ground rules for all the wars and terror that was to follow.
*** Misapplication and deep misunderstanding of the Word are the sole reasons for the wars and terror that followed and even in today’s new testament we can clearly see that the examples of Jesus and the Apostles highly non violent ways to bring people to know God. In fact with reference to the NT, I am unclear which parts of the Bible you believe justify such actions.
For supposedly religious people you seem remarkably ignorant of church history never mind bible history.
*** on what evidence do you base this assumption?
Are you a protestant?
*** I am not a catholic by common understanding but have kinship with Charismatic Catholics.
I am not religious so does that make me a protestant?
What are you protesting against,
*** I only protest against the devils works
The number of the faithful to whom it doesn't occur to ask the question is truly amazing. They're just right and that's it.
*** I am more than willing to discuss why I believe any theological aspect of the Truth any time. I do not believe in baldly stating that it is by Faith alone that I know God and wish to Love God fully
The genesis story is a fable, anyone who doesn't understand that is an idiot.
When you refer to Genesis, are you merely refering to the creation account or the whole book of Genisies?
Either way I am happy to tell you whayt I have learnt about it, even verse by verse.
Bless you
Creationism?
freethinkingthuthseeker;1348733 wrote: When you refer to Genesis, are you merely refering to the creation account or the whole book of Genisies?
Either way I am happy to tell you whayt I have learnt about it, even verse by verse.
Bless you
No need I have actually read it although it was some time ago. I'm afraid I came to the conclusion the creation account was a fairy tale quite some time ago. I find it incredible that anyone can take it literally in this day and age and just as incredible that someone can rationalise it so it ties in with the evidence for evolution as merely being our finding out how god did it as it were. There is no evidence for god all you can do is decide you want to b believe in one and leave it at that. Don't pretend it is a rational choice because it cannot be, if it were faith would not be needed for religious belief.
Either way I am happy to tell you whayt I have learnt about it, even verse by verse.
Bless you
No need I have actually read it although it was some time ago. I'm afraid I came to the conclusion the creation account was a fairy tale quite some time ago. I find it incredible that anyone can take it literally in this day and age and just as incredible that someone can rationalise it so it ties in with the evidence for evolution as merely being our finding out how god did it as it were. There is no evidence for god all you can do is decide you want to b believe in one and leave it at that. Don't pretend it is a rational choice because it cannot be, if it were faith would not be needed for religious belief.
Creationism?
Lon;1347438 wrote: 40 Percent Of Americans Still Believe In Creationism
Probably the same number that believe in LEPRECHAUNS
:wah:
Dude, you laugh, but to me that statistic is SCARY! It actually means that Americans are getting more ignorant and superstitious. That's always a bad thing.
Probably the same number that believe in LEPRECHAUNS
:wah:
Dude, you laugh, but to me that statistic is SCARY! It actually means that Americans are getting more ignorant and superstitious. That's always a bad thing.
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freethinkingthuthseeker
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- Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:22 pm
Creationism?
gmc;1348735 wrote: No need I have actually read it although it was some time ago. I'm afraid I came to the conclusion the creation account was a fairy tale quite some time ago. I find it incredible that anyone can take it literally in this day and age and just as incredible that someone can rationalize it so it ties in with the evidence for evolution as merely being our finding out how god did it as it were. There is no evidence for god all you can do is decide you want to b believe in one and leave it at that. Don't pretend it is a rational choice because it cannot be, if it were faith would not be needed for religious belief.
Is it rationalizing that the current best hypothesis of the universe i.e. the big bang theory ( itself a misnomer) ties in with the Biblical beginning?
That aside, I do not necessarily take the whole creation account literally but I know supernatural phenomena does occur both good and evil.
As I have stated earlier in this thread, one thing I am sure about is that we were created as humans and did not evolve.
Is it rationalizing to wonder if the Cambrian explosion ties in with the flood?
Where have I stated that it is a rational choice?
Faith is a gift from God but when Faith becomes strong God communicates with me directly and is actually transforming me from the inside out.
It is a rich two way relationship
Bless you
Is it rationalizing that the current best hypothesis of the universe i.e. the big bang theory ( itself a misnomer) ties in with the Biblical beginning?
That aside, I do not necessarily take the whole creation account literally but I know supernatural phenomena does occur both good and evil.
As I have stated earlier in this thread, one thing I am sure about is that we were created as humans and did not evolve.
Is it rationalizing to wonder if the Cambrian explosion ties in with the flood?
Where have I stated that it is a rational choice?
Faith is a gift from God but when Faith becomes strong God communicates with me directly and is actually transforming me from the inside out.
It is a rich two way relationship
Bless you
Creationism?
IMO probably the greatest threat to world peace is a religious revival, not just in the middle east. Christian against muslim is a war we should not be fighting in an age when most people in the world are actually secular. We've got a newly assertive catholic church stirring things up as well as muslim and protestant fundamentalists. Religion needs ignorance to breed the fear it thrives on and uses the tolerance of a secular society to claim the freedom to preach hatred and discrimination.
I may be wrong but I think the number that believe in creationism has actually grown over the last two decades or so. Not being american I don't really care except so far as how it might affect american foreign policy and it does seem religion is a baleful influence.
I may be wrong but I think the number that believe in creationism has actually grown over the last two decades or so. Not being american I don't really care except so far as how it might affect american foreign policy and it does seem religion is a baleful influence.
Creationism?
freethinkingthuthseeker;1348828 wrote: I
As I have stated earlier in this thread, one thing I am sure about is that we were created as humans and did not evolve.
On your view, how do you determine the time it took for God to create humans? Did it take God less than a second to create humans? Or several minutes? Or years? Or millions of years?
If you don't have a way to pinpoint this time, it's impossible to be sure that humans did not evolve in the process.
There is no reason to discard a cornerstone of modern science. The only people who will advise you to do this are those who are trying to maintain a closed-information system. I would not trust any religion that makes science an enemy.
As I have stated earlier in this thread, one thing I am sure about is that we were created as humans and did not evolve.
On your view, how do you determine the time it took for God to create humans? Did it take God less than a second to create humans? Or several minutes? Or years? Or millions of years?
If you don't have a way to pinpoint this time, it's impossible to be sure that humans did not evolve in the process.
There is no reason to discard a cornerstone of modern science. The only people who will advise you to do this are those who are trying to maintain a closed-information system. I would not trust any religion that makes science an enemy.
Creationism?
gmc;1348829 wrote: IMO probably the greatest threat to world peace is a religious revival, not just in the middle east. Christian against muslim is a war we should not be fighting in an age when most people in the world are actually secular. We've got a newly assertive catholic church stirring things up as well as muslim and protestant fundamentalists. Religion needs ignorance to breed the fear it thrives on and uses the tolerance of a secular society to claim the freedom to preach hatred and discrimination.
I may be wrong but I think the number that believe in creationism has actually grown over the last two decades or so. Not being american I don't really care except so far as how it might affect american foreign policy and it does seem religion is a baleful influence.
The polls show relatively constant percentages over the last several decades.
I think the YE creationists have just become more vocal in the last couple of decades.
I have always been a creationist, but never saw the conflict between creation and evolution.
And certainly never got the whole Young Earth thing, which seems to be the sticky point.
I may be wrong but I think the number that believe in creationism has actually grown over the last two decades or so. Not being american I don't really care except so far as how it might affect american foreign policy and it does seem religion is a baleful influence.
The polls show relatively constant percentages over the last several decades.
I think the YE creationists have just become more vocal in the last couple of decades.
I have always been a creationist, but never saw the conflict between creation and evolution.
And certainly never got the whole Young Earth thing, which seems to be the sticky point.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
Creationism?
LarsMac;1348848 wrote: The polls show relatively constant percentages over the last several decades.
I think the YE creationists have just become more vocal in the last couple of decades.
I have always been a creationist, but never saw the conflict between creation and evolution.
And certainly never got the whole Young Earth thing, which seems to be the sticky point.
By way of contrast
Religion and belief: some surveys and statistics
n the UK, those who describe themselves as non-religious have risen from 31% to 43% between 1983 and 2008 according to the British Social Attitudes Survey’s 26th report issued in 2010.
Religion in the United Kingdom: Diversity, Trends and Decline
1964 1970 1983 1992 2005
Belong to a religion and attend services 74% 71% 55% 37% 31%
Does not belong 3% 5% 26% 31% 38%
Source:
British Social Attitudes (2006/7)5
Maybe we just don't like being told what to think.
I think the YE creationists have just become more vocal in the last couple of decades.
I have always been a creationist, but never saw the conflict between creation and evolution.
And certainly never got the whole Young Earth thing, which seems to be the sticky point.
By way of contrast
Religion and belief: some surveys and statistics
n the UK, those who describe themselves as non-religious have risen from 31% to 43% between 1983 and 2008 according to the British Social Attitudes Survey’s 26th report issued in 2010.
Religion in the United Kingdom: Diversity, Trends and Decline
1964 1970 1983 1992 2005
Belong to a religion and attend services 74% 71% 55% 37% 31%
Does not belong 3% 5% 26% 31% 38%
Source:
British Social Attitudes (2006/7)5
Maybe we just don't like being told what to think.
Creationism?
gmc;1348862 wrote: By way of contrast
Religion and belief: some surveys and statistics
Religion in the United Kingdom: Diversity, Trends and Decline
Maybe we just don't like being told what to think.
Well, in such a poll, I would fall into the "Does not belong" category. Does that make me an atheist? or a humanist?
You can only be taught how to think, not what to think.
Religion and belief: some surveys and statistics
Religion in the United Kingdom: Diversity, Trends and Decline
Maybe we just don't like being told what to think.
Well, in such a poll, I would fall into the "Does not belong" category. Does that make me an atheist? or a humanist?
You can only be taught how to think, not what to think.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
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freethinkingthuthseeker
- Posts: 245
- Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:22 pm
Creationism?
gmc;1348829 wrote: IMO probably the greatest threat to world peace is a religious revival, not just in the middle east. Christian against muslim is a war we should not be fighting in an age when most people in the world are actually secular. We've got a newly assertive catholic church stirring things up as well as muslim and protestant fundamentalists. Religion needs ignorance to breed the fear it thrives on and uses the tolerance of a secular society to claim the freedom to preach hatred and discrimination.
***Very interesting and much foretold in the Bible too about muslims and Christians but what has this to do with creationism?
I may be wrong but I think the number that believe in creationism has actually grown over the last two decades or so. Not being american I don't really care except so far as how it might affect american foreign policy and it does seem religion is a baleful influence.
Indeed I agree and repeat a relationship with God is no longer - since the time of Jesus on earth - a religion except for those who do not know in depth, the words of GOD
The Bible prophecised that a false religion would grow for a large part of the world between 3 and 2 thousand years ago and the muslim religion absolutely fits the bill and that this will show the beginning of the end times.
American foreign policy is quite secular in the interests of oil and property to a significant degree.
Many atrocities have also been done by secular powers such as China, Russia and Hitlers germany for example, pol pot, idi amin, the hutu's and tutsi's and and plenty more spring to mind.
Man will never solve the big problems of mankind
and people who are religious "warriors" today are also lost and confused and nothing to do with the True Church
***Very interesting and much foretold in the Bible too about muslims and Christians but what has this to do with creationism?
I may be wrong but I think the number that believe in creationism has actually grown over the last two decades or so. Not being american I don't really care except so far as how it might affect american foreign policy and it does seem religion is a baleful influence.
Indeed I agree and repeat a relationship with God is no longer - since the time of Jesus on earth - a religion except for those who do not know in depth, the words of GOD
The Bible prophecised that a false religion would grow for a large part of the world between 3 and 2 thousand years ago and the muslim religion absolutely fits the bill and that this will show the beginning of the end times.
American foreign policy is quite secular in the interests of oil and property to a significant degree.
Many atrocities have also been done by secular powers such as China, Russia and Hitlers germany for example, pol pot, idi amin, the hutu's and tutsi's and and plenty more spring to mind.
Man will never solve the big problems of mankind
and people who are religious "warriors" today are also lost and confused and nothing to do with the True Church
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freethinkingthuthseeker
- Posts: 245
- Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:22 pm
Creationism?
yaaarrrgg;1348845 wrote: On your view, how do you determine the time it took for God to create humans? Did it take God less than a second to create humans? Or several minutes? Or years? Or millions of years?
If you don't have a way to pinpoint this time, it's impossible to be sure that humans did not evolve in the process.
There is no reason to discard a cornerstone of modern science. The only people who will advise you to do this are those who are trying to maintain a closed-information system. I would not trust any religion that makes science an enemy.
To date it is also impossible to PROVE that we have evolved. However In human terms of age, I would say we were created not long before the Cambrian period.
As for making Science an enemy, where do you get that from? - assuming you are questioning me and not the Catholic Church
I have never criticized applied science and indeed marvel at much of what science has learnt about the Glory of God's creation
It really is an amazing universe and eternity.
I do not take advice from systems too seriously
Check out www.biologos.org for serious Christian scientists
God Bless you
If you don't have a way to pinpoint this time, it's impossible to be sure that humans did not evolve in the process.
There is no reason to discard a cornerstone of modern science. The only people who will advise you to do this are those who are trying to maintain a closed-information system. I would not trust any religion that makes science an enemy.
To date it is also impossible to PROVE that we have evolved. However In human terms of age, I would say we were created not long before the Cambrian period.
As for making Science an enemy, where do you get that from? - assuming you are questioning me and not the Catholic Church
I have never criticized applied science and indeed marvel at much of what science has learnt about the Glory of God's creation
It really is an amazing universe and eternity.
I do not take advice from systems too seriously
Check out www.biologos.org for serious Christian scientists
God Bless you
Creationism?
I wish I had something to add here. However, I find that whatever I have to add would just be another drop in the ocean. It is scary because there is no argument here. Just lots of people saying, "This is how it is and you're wrong" [my quote.]
This occurs in scientific circles too until a theory is proven as fundamental fact. But, with science, there is usually a lot of money hanging on a new theory.
Religious concepts, however, can only be proven to a certain extent. Does God exist? Well, it depends on your definition of God. And, if you have defined God, can you prove your definition.
I find that religious discussions are childishly emotive and rarely make any progress towards any understanding of a belief. In my view, without a basis for rational discussion, we can only end up with a repetition of the same old argument.
At the end of the day, there is no proof for or against the existence of a deity. So, why can't we just respect each others' views.
This occurs in scientific circles too until a theory is proven as fundamental fact. But, with science, there is usually a lot of money hanging on a new theory.
Religious concepts, however, can only be proven to a certain extent. Does God exist? Well, it depends on your definition of God. And, if you have defined God, can you prove your definition.
I find that religious discussions are childishly emotive and rarely make any progress towards any understanding of a belief. In my view, without a basis for rational discussion, we can only end up with a repetition of the same old argument.
At the end of the day, there is no proof for or against the existence of a deity. So, why can't we just respect each others' views.
Creationism?
OpenMind;1348948 wrote: I wish I had something to add here. However, I find that whatever I have to add would just be another drop in the ocean. It is scary because there is no argument here. Just lots of people saying, "This is how it is and you're wrong" [my quote.]
This occurs in scientific circles too until a theory is proven as fundamental fact. But, with science, there is usually a lot of money hanging on a new theory.
Religious concepts, however, can only be proven to a certain extent. Does God exist? Well, it depends on your definition of God. And, if you have defined God, can you prove your definition.
I find that religious discussions are childishly emotive and rarely make any progress towards any understanding of a belief. In my view, without a basis for rational discussion, we can only end up with a repetition of the same old argument.
At the end of the day, there is no proof for or against the existence of a deity. So, why can't we just respect each others' views.
Well said, Brother.
This occurs in scientific circles too until a theory is proven as fundamental fact. But, with science, there is usually a lot of money hanging on a new theory.
Religious concepts, however, can only be proven to a certain extent. Does God exist? Well, it depends on your definition of God. And, if you have defined God, can you prove your definition.
I find that religious discussions are childishly emotive and rarely make any progress towards any understanding of a belief. In my view, without a basis for rational discussion, we can only end up with a repetition of the same old argument.
At the end of the day, there is no proof for or against the existence of a deity. So, why can't we just respect each others' views.
Well said, Brother.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
Creationism?
freethinkingthuthseeker;1348917 wrote: To date it is also impossible to PROVE that we have evolved.
This is a misunderstanding of science. The way science works is very much like a process of evolution. You take several theories, subject them to stress, and pick the strongest explanation. The "science" that remains is just the best theory that explains the fossil record and similarities between animals.
freethinkingthuthseeker;1348917 wrote:
As for making Science an enemy, where do you get that from? - assuming you are questioning me and not the Catholic Church
It seems you believe the current scientific models of the origin of life are incompatible with your religious beliefs, rather than adding to your religious beliefs.
This is a misunderstanding of science. The way science works is very much like a process of evolution. You take several theories, subject them to stress, and pick the strongest explanation. The "science" that remains is just the best theory that explains the fossil record and similarities between animals.
freethinkingthuthseeker;1348917 wrote:
As for making Science an enemy, where do you get that from? - assuming you are questioning me and not the Catholic Church
It seems you believe the current scientific models of the origin of life are incompatible with your religious beliefs, rather than adding to your religious beliefs.