Odie;1359366 wrote: you always used to get so upset at me if I deleted a post, you would say sarcastic remarks to me.
end of.You're confusing me with someone else. I quite happily ignore your deletions and edits, I just quote what you first wrote and carry on. Life's too short to wait for you to finish dithering.
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
spot;1359365 wrote: You're authorised to delete posts, by all means delete them.
I'm authorised to delete rather more posts than you are on the understanding that I stick to spam and absolutely nothing else. Flopstock's taken to mud-slinging in the hope some sticks, for some unfathomable reason of her own. I delete spam - which is by definition from non-members who register in order to post spam - and absolutely nothing else.
So, what's just not right here?
And here you are attempting to deflect again spot. I wasn't referring to your god given rights in the least. I was asking you if other members had made statements in this thread and then later gone back and deleted those statements and perhaps replaced them with something different.
It would not be the first time.
If that is NOT the case then this statement-
The idea that you're both more bothered by this than by the higher number of children in every age-group who die in car crashes appals me, frankly. To focus on the one regardless of the actual cost in lives is plain obsessive.
is simply an idea you have manufactured on your own- with no foundation in fact to back it up.
Nice try though:yh_rotfl
I'm authorised to delete rather more posts than you are on the understanding that I stick to spam and absolutely nothing else. Flopstock's taken to mud-slinging in the hope some sticks, for some unfathomable reason of her own. I delete spam - which is by definition from non-members who register in order to post spam - and absolutely nothing else.
So, what's just not right here?
And here you are attempting to deflect again spot. I wasn't referring to your god given rights in the least. I was asking you if other members had made statements in this thread and then later gone back and deleted those statements and perhaps replaced them with something different.
It would not be the first time.
If that is NOT the case then this statement-
The idea that you're both more bothered by this than by the higher number of children in every age-group who die in car crashes appals me, frankly. To focus on the one regardless of the actual cost in lives is plain obsessive.
is simply an idea you have manufactured on your own- with no foundation in fact to back it up.
Nice try though:yh_rotfl
I expressly forbid the use of any of my posts anywhere outside of FG (with the exception of the incredibly witty 'get a room already' )posted recently.
Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6
Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
Odie;1359366 wrote: you always used to get so upset at me if I deleted a post, you would say sarcastic remarks to me.....and now its okay if you do.
oops there's oscar reading again.:yh_rotfl
And this is still asinine
oops there's oscar reading again.:yh_rotfl
And this is still asinine
I expressly forbid the use of any of my posts anywhere outside of FG (with the exception of the incredibly witty 'get a room already' )posted recently.
Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6
Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
YZGI;1359361 wrote: What makes you think we are curiously subdued about vehicular death of children? You may, collectively as a nation, be just as much outraged. I haven't claimed otherwise. My claim is that the reporting of such incidents is curiously subdued when you consider the appalling mayhem and suffering it entails. If a full list of the previous day's car crash victims was read at the top of the day's main news report it would at least acknowledge their loss. I get an email from The Department of Defense every time their Public Affairs unit identifies someone supporting Operation Enduring Freedom who died as a result of serving, for example. There's a mailing list for that. It's considered important. Car deaths, on the other hand, fade unreported into the background.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
flopstock;1359370 wrote: [...] is simply an idea you have manufactured on your own- with no foundation in fact to back it up.
Nice try though:yh_rotfl
I refer the honorable member to the reply I gave immediately before the one she quoted, after the words "The conversational essence of the thread has been".
Nice try though:yh_rotfl
I refer the honorable member to the reply I gave immediately before the one she quoted, after the words "The conversational essence of the thread has been".
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
spot;1359372 wrote: You may, collectively as a nation, be just as much outraged. I haven't claimed otherwise. My claim is that the reporting of such incidents is curiously subdued when you consider the appalling mayhem and suffering it entails. If a full list of the previous day's car crash victims was read at the top of the day's main news report it would at least acknowledge their loss. I get an email from The Department of Defense every time their Public Affairs unit identifies someone supporting Operation Enduring Freedom who died as a result of serving, for example. There's a mailing list for that. It's considered important. Car deaths, on the other hand, fade unreported into the background.
Unreported, I think not. The local news in my area reports every non natural fatality that occurs in our area. Whether it be drowning, car wrecks, shooting, suicide or in case of known people, old age or the effects of old age. Your line " Car deaths, on the other hand, fade unreported into the background" seems to infer a cover up I assume. To say "Car deaths, on the other hand, fade unreported into the background." Is quite simply untrue.
Unreported, I think not. The local news in my area reports every non natural fatality that occurs in our area. Whether it be drowning, car wrecks, shooting, suicide or in case of known people, old age or the effects of old age. Your line " Car deaths, on the other hand, fade unreported into the background" seems to infer a cover up I assume. To say "Car deaths, on the other hand, fade unreported into the background." Is quite simply untrue.
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
YZGI;1359375 wrote: Unreported, I think not. The local news in my area reports every non natural fatality that occurs in our area.I am, quite honestly, amazed. I take what you say to be true but I've never heard such a claim of any other area and it's very different from my expectation. Unless - if you mean a county weekly newspaper with a diligent intern reporter then possibly so. If, however, you do mean a TV channel, even a local one, then I withdraw my entire argument as false. I was, I think, explicitly and evidently discussing TV channels.
Your line " Car deaths, on the other hand, fade unreported into the background" seems to infer a cover up I assume.Of course not. Just a lack of sensation for TV channels dedicated to sensation. But I wait to hear more from you before I nail that to the notice-board.
Your line " Car deaths, on the other hand, fade unreported into the background" seems to infer a cover up I assume.Of course not. Just a lack of sensation for TV channels dedicated to sensation. But I wait to hear more from you before I nail that to the notice-board.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
spot;1359376 wrote: I am, quite honestly, amazed. I take what you say to be true but I've never heard such a claim of any other area and it's very different from my expectation. Unless - if you mean a county weekly newspaper with a diligent intern reporter then possibly so. If, however, you do mean a TV channel, even a local one, then I withdraw my entire argument as false. I was, I think, explicitly and evidently discussing TV channels.
Of course not. Just a lack of sensation for TV channels dedicated to sensation. But I wait to hear more from you before I nail that to the notice-board.
I can't imagine a vehicle casualty not being reported on the t.v. during the local news. I live around the Wichita,Ks. area, if we hear of a wreck we watch the news to find out if a casualty or injury occurred and they report what happened. I'd never heard of vehicle casualties not being reported.
This is one of the local news sites.
Search Results - kwch.com
Of course not. Just a lack of sensation for TV channels dedicated to sensation. But I wait to hear more from you before I nail that to the notice-board.
I can't imagine a vehicle casualty not being reported on the t.v. during the local news. I live around the Wichita,Ks. area, if we hear of a wreck we watch the news to find out if a casualty or injury occurred and they report what happened. I'd never heard of vehicle casualties not being reported.
This is one of the local news sites.
Search Results - kwch.com
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
YZGI;1359378 wrote: I can't imagine a vehicle casualty not being reported on the t.v. during the local news. I live around the Wichita,Ks. area, if we hear of a wreck we watch the news to find out if a casualty or injury occurred and they report what happened. I'd never heard of vehicle casualties not being reported.
This is one of the local news sites.
Search Results - kwch.com
It's a whole other world. Watching some of those reports brings Garrison Keillor to mind. You're right, I'm wrong, I retract unreservedly.
I had no idea any place existed where the "most viewed" headlines would bePolice: Man lived with dead fiancee for a week
Topless Woman Arrested After Leaving Baby in Car, Walking into a Gardner Bar
Dog stolen from car in parking lot recovered
This is one of the local news sites.
Search Results - kwch.com
It's a whole other world. Watching some of those reports brings Garrison Keillor to mind. You're right, I'm wrong, I retract unreservedly.
I had no idea any place existed where the "most viewed" headlines would bePolice: Man lived with dead fiancee for a week
Topless Woman Arrested After Leaving Baby in Car, Walking into a Gardner Bar
Dog stolen from car in parking lot recovered
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
spot;1359381 wrote: It's a whole other world. Watching some of those reports brings Garrison Keillor to mind. You're right, I'm wrong, I retract unreservedly.
I had no idea any place existed where the "most viewed" headlines would bePolice: Man lived with dead fiancee for a week
Topless Woman Arrested After Leaving Baby in Car, Walking into a Gardner Bar
Dog stolen from car in parking lot recovered
This city would be considered one of the safe, boring, uneventful cities around.
I had no idea any place existed where the "most viewed" headlines would bePolice: Man lived with dead fiancee for a week
Topless Woman Arrested After Leaving Baby in Car, Walking into a Gardner Bar
Dog stolen from car in parking lot recovered
This city would be considered one of the safe, boring, uneventful cities around.
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
YZGI;1359383 wrote: This city would be considered one of the safe, boring, uneventful cities around.
Living there would be a privilege. I may take a holiday in Kansas just to soak up the atmosphere.
What's a Gardner Bar?
Living there would be a privilege. I may take a holiday in Kansas just to soak up the atmosphere.
What's a Gardner Bar?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
spot;1359384 wrote: Living there would be a privilege. I may take a holiday in Kansas just to soak up the atmosphere.
What's a Gardner Bar?
That would be a pub in Gardner, Kansas.
What's a Gardner Bar?
That would be a pub in Gardner, Kansas.
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
spot;1359384 wrote: Living there would be a privilege. I may take a holiday in Kansas just to soak up the atmosphere.
What's a Gardner Bar?
That is a very small town in northeast kansas. Probably the only news that has come from that town in 20-30 years of any interest.
What's a Gardner Bar?
That is a very small town in northeast kansas. Probably the only news that has come from that town in 20-30 years of any interest.
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
spot;1359369 wrote: You're confusing me with someone else. I quite happily ignore your deletions and edits, I just quote what you first wrote and carry on. Life's too short to wait for you to finish dithering.
whatever spot, whatever you say.
whatever spot, whatever you say.
Life is just to short for drama.
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
flopstock;1359371 wrote: And this is still asinine
what is? that spot used to use much sarcasm in my deletion of a post?
what is? that spot used to use much sarcasm in my deletion of a post?
Life is just to short for drama.
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
without having to read back through pages... what the hell happened to this thread????
yikes.
yikes.
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
mikeinie;1359457 wrote: without having to read back through pages... what the hell happened to this thread????
yikes.
It slipped through the rails, fell into the street where a car ran into it then fell into the pool and drowned.
yikes.
It slipped through the rails, fell into the street where a car ran into it then fell into the pool and drowned.
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
mikeinie;1359457 wrote: without having to read back through pages... what the hell happened to this thread????
yikes.
it was a war zone that had been bombed.
yikes.
it was a war zone that had been bombed.
Life is just to short for drama.
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
mikeinie;1359457 wrote: without having to read back through pages... what the hell happened to this thread????
yikes.
By all means trawl through it. I was strolling along and wham, an out-of-the-blue handbagging from a pair of touchy-feelgood tranqued-to-the-eyeball zoned-out zomboids with too much time on their hands, whom Mister Common Sense has apparently dropped from his rounds as pointless time-wasting.
yikes.
By all means trawl through it. I was strolling along and wham, an out-of-the-blue handbagging from a pair of touchy-feelgood tranqued-to-the-eyeball zoned-out zomboids with too much time on their hands, whom Mister Common Sense has apparently dropped from his rounds as pointless time-wasting.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
spot;1359182 wrote: If you want to keep the pool, invest in an electric fence and some Alsatians to patrol the grounds. Nobody can possibly keep a toddler under continual guard, year in year out.
I decided to trawl through this thread and found the need to comment on the above statement by spot.
You cannot be serious about an electric fence and dogs (Alsatians) to patrol a backyard pool. That's just insane, in my opinion and a lack of common sense. :wah: The liability alone from anyone getting zapped from touching that fence or possibly attacked by the dogs would not make a happy homeowner once the injured person brought lawsuit against them.
I will agree with you though, that if there is a lack of supervision regarding a child's safety around a pool, do away with the pool altogether. Go visit a public pool or State Park where swimming is available with lifeguards.
I decided to trawl through this thread and found the need to comment on the above statement by spot.
You cannot be serious about an electric fence and dogs (Alsatians) to patrol a backyard pool. That's just insane, in my opinion and a lack of common sense. :wah: The liability alone from anyone getting zapped from touching that fence or possibly attacked by the dogs would not make a happy homeowner once the injured person brought lawsuit against them.
I will agree with you though, that if there is a lack of supervision regarding a child's safety around a pool, do away with the pool altogether. Go visit a public pool or State Park where swimming is available with lifeguards.
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
Spot-the-Lightening-rod.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
Ahso!;1359495 wrote: Spot-the-Lightening-rod.
Wouldn't that make him a tool?
Wouldn't that make him a tool?
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
Babe;1359492 wrote: I decided to trawl through this thread and found the need to comment on the above statement by spot.
You cannot be serious about an electric fence and dogs (Alsatians) to patrol a backyard pool. That's just insane, in my opinion and a lack of common sense. :wah: The liability alone from anyone getting zapped from touching that fence or possibly attacked by the dogs would not make a happy homeowner once the injured person brought lawsuit against them.
I will agree with you though, that if there is a lack of supervision regarding a child's safety around a pool, do away with the pool altogether. Go visit a public pool or State Park where swimming is available with lifeguards.
It wasn't offered as a practical suggestion, of course not. It was a demonstration of the impossibility of keeping children out of backyards (you did quote the accompanying "Nobody can possibly keep a toddler under continual guard, year in year out"), and the ridiculous extent you'd need to go to if you were to actually achieve it. You'll find my rational alternative to keeping unsupervised children out of backyards a few posts later - putting a hard cover over the pool and padlocking it when it's not in use, using the padlock key as a token handed to whoever's responsible for watching the pool at any given moment when it's unlocked.
You cannot be serious about an electric fence and dogs (Alsatians) to patrol a backyard pool. That's just insane, in my opinion and a lack of common sense. :wah: The liability alone from anyone getting zapped from touching that fence or possibly attacked by the dogs would not make a happy homeowner once the injured person brought lawsuit against them.
I will agree with you though, that if there is a lack of supervision regarding a child's safety around a pool, do away with the pool altogether. Go visit a public pool or State Park where swimming is available with lifeguards.
It wasn't offered as a practical suggestion, of course not. It was a demonstration of the impossibility of keeping children out of backyards (you did quote the accompanying "Nobody can possibly keep a toddler under continual guard, year in year out"), and the ridiculous extent you'd need to go to if you were to actually achieve it. You'll find my rational alternative to keeping unsupervised children out of backyards a few posts later - putting a hard cover over the pool and padlocking it when it's not in use, using the padlock key as a token handed to whoever's responsible for watching the pool at any given moment when it's unlocked.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
-
Patsy Warnick
- Posts: 4567
- Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:53 am
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
Several people have a home security system which will provide a monitoring system to indicate if & when doors are opened.
The last 2 yr. old whom drowned had crawled thru the doggy door.
Patsy
The last 2 yr. old whom drowned had crawled thru the doggy door.
Patsy
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
You're attempting the impossible, keeping children from the poolside. You could instead make the poolside safe for children.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
-
Patsy Warnick
- Posts: 4567
- Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:53 am
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
I'm not attempting nothing - I'm stating the facts on the drownings. Home owners have fences - locked gates - montoring systems - some have covered pools (didn't work) found the child under the cover.
The drowning situation is not a child problem - it's not a recreational problem.
It's a lack of supervision problem.
The last toddler escaped thru a doogy door - parents stated the child had been out of sight for @ 1/2 hour.
1/2 hour is a long time. But the dog is fine.
Patsy
The drowning situation is not a child problem - it's not a recreational problem.
It's a lack of supervision problem.
The last toddler escaped thru a doogy door - parents stated the child had been out of sight for @ 1/2 hour.
1/2 hour is a long time. But the dog is fine.
Patsy
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
Patsy Warnick;1359518 wrote: Several people have a home security system which will provide a monitoring system to indicate if & when doors are opened.
The last 2 yr. old whom drowned had crawled thru the doggy door.
This might be a daft question but wouldn't most people assume the alarm on a doggy door was triggered by a doggy, if they routinely hear it several times a day? To the extent, perhaps, that if they don't hear the doggy door alarm for a couple of days they go and check whether the doggy died? I'm not convinced I'd risk a life on correctly interpreting the reason the door monitoring system went bong, not if the doggy bonged it five times a day.
My doggy door, if I had one, would only open if the correct RDIF collar was within a foot of it. The two year old capable of using the dog to trigger an automated latch has yet to be born.
The last 2 yr. old whom drowned had crawled thru the doggy door.
This might be a daft question but wouldn't most people assume the alarm on a doggy door was triggered by a doggy, if they routinely hear it several times a day? To the extent, perhaps, that if they don't hear the doggy door alarm for a couple of days they go and check whether the doggy died? I'm not convinced I'd risk a life on correctly interpreting the reason the door monitoring system went bong, not if the doggy bonged it five times a day.
My doggy door, if I had one, would only open if the correct RDIF collar was within a foot of it. The two year old capable of using the dog to trigger an automated latch has yet to be born.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
Patsy Warnick;1359520 wrote: I'm not attempting nothing - I'm stating the facts on the drownings. Home owners have fences - locked gates - montoring systems - some have covered pools (didn't work) found the child under the cover.There may be a reason, so I'll ask. What's wrong with padlocking a hard cover? Yes children can crawl under soft covers, that's why hard covers exist.
The whole point of bringing up children is to allow them to explore independently and unsupervised within a safe environment. That's what backyards are for before they get to school age. Backyards are meant to be unsupervised play areas, not death traps. I use the word unsupervised in a relative manner: for the child to be able to feel left to itself.
The whole point of bringing up children is to allow them to explore independently and unsupervised within a safe environment. That's what backyards are for before they get to school age. Backyards are meant to be unsupervised play areas, not death traps. I use the word unsupervised in a relative manner: for the child to be able to feel left to itself.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
-
Patsy Warnick
- Posts: 4567
- Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:53 am
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
Key word is "Safe enviornment".
I agree with you Spot - a locking hard pool cover could work. The problem people feel/think "this won't happen to me".
Another problem would be expense - since the last pool was green & uncared for, so the pool upkeep was already too expensive for them. Should people fill the pools in with dirt - YES.
Of course the whole idea of being a kid - is to be able to be a kid.
Would I have a pool with kids of toddler age - NO - absolutely not.
Patsy
I agree with you Spot - a locking hard pool cover could work. The problem people feel/think "this won't happen to me".
Another problem would be expense - since the last pool was green & uncared for, so the pool upkeep was already too expensive for them. Should people fill the pools in with dirt - YES.
Of course the whole idea of being a kid - is to be able to be a kid.
Would I have a pool with kids of toddler age - NO - absolutely not.
Patsy
-
Patsy Warnick
- Posts: 4567
- Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:53 am
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
Well, I hesitated to post the latest drowning - several safety measures were taken - here it goes.
Home has a built in pool - Mother is sitting pool side watching her 6 yr. old son swimming.
The child has a Life Jacket on while swimming.
Child is playing - splashing and the mother panics and jumped into the pool assuming the child was in trouble.?
The child makes it to the steps & starts screaming
The Mother does not know how to swim... The Mother is now drowning.
The child runs to a neighbors house for help, and emergency assistance was given.
The Mother died.
Patsy
Home has a built in pool - Mother is sitting pool side watching her 6 yr. old son swimming.
The child has a Life Jacket on while swimming.
Child is playing - splashing and the mother panics and jumped into the pool assuming the child was in trouble.?
The child makes it to the steps & starts screaming
The Mother does not know how to swim... The Mother is now drowning.
The child runs to a neighbors house for help, and emergency assistance was given.
The Mother died.
Patsy
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
Dangerous things, swimming pools.
How, out of interest, can anyone know why she jumped into the pool? Isn't both "the mother panics" and "assuming the child was in trouble" merely unconfirmable conjecture? Why do you assume that rather than, for example, a sudden overwhelming compulsion to commit suicide?
How, out of interest, can anyone know why she jumped into the pool? Isn't both "the mother panics" and "assuming the child was in trouble" merely unconfirmable conjecture? Why do you assume that rather than, for example, a sudden overwhelming compulsion to commit suicide?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
I'm wondering why people who cannot swim live in a home with a swimming pool, or why a parent who cannot swim has their young child in the pool. You'd figure that same parent would sue a public (or private) facility if it was learned the on-duty lifeguards could not swim.
The story smells fishy. Can you provide a link?
The story smells fishy. Can you provide a link?
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
spot;1360331 wrote: Dangerous things, swimming pools.
How, out of interest, can anyone know why she jumped into the pool? Isn't both "the mother panics" and "assuming the child was in trouble" merely unconfirmable conjecture? Why do you assume that rather than, for example, a sudden overwhelming compulsion to commit suicide?Perhaps she decided to practice swimming, being new to it.
How, out of interest, can anyone know why she jumped into the pool? Isn't both "the mother panics" and "assuming the child was in trouble" merely unconfirmable conjecture? Why do you assume that rather than, for example, a sudden overwhelming compulsion to commit suicide?Perhaps she decided to practice swimming, being new to it.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
Ahso!;1360335 wrote: Perhaps she decided to practice swimming, being new to it.
Not that we'll be told, but how much had she been drinking beforehand?
Not that we'll be told, but how much had she been drinking beforehand?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
-
Patsy Warnick
- Posts: 4567
- Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:53 am
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
It's a on going investigation - toxicology testing etc. It could be alcohol - drugs - her age wasn't even released.
She had enough sense to put the child in a life jacket - when she jumped in she pushed the child to the shallow end - which would be where the steps are.
If I hear any update I'll post the results - but I do try to avoid the news.
What I stated is all that's been reported - it's from a 6 yr. old.
This drowning didn't sit well with me - I feel as some here feel that something had to contribute to the drowning.?
It's Memorial Weekend - there will be @ 4 drownings over the Holiday - sad truth.
Patsy
She had enough sense to put the child in a life jacket - when she jumped in she pushed the child to the shallow end - which would be where the steps are.
If I hear any update I'll post the results - but I do try to avoid the news.
What I stated is all that's been reported - it's from a 6 yr. old.
This drowning didn't sit well with me - I feel as some here feel that something had to contribute to the drowning.?
It's Memorial Weekend - there will be @ 4 drownings over the Holiday - sad truth.
Patsy
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
Patsy, rather more than four people will die in the US over the next week from influenza. I find that proportionately sadder, to be honest. At least the drownees' families could have actively avoided their experience by not putting a death-trap on their land.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
-
Patsy Warnick
- Posts: 4567
- Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:53 am
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
Now I know why I hesitated to post.... What does the flu have to do with drowning? From Flu to Cancer many will die.
Drowning is not a disease/illness.
Don't you have some one at home you can argue with? really Spot.
Children drowning can be prevented - Memorial weekend is the start of summer and a start of many more children drowning.
I find that very sad, and it's the sad truth.
Patsy
Drowning is not a disease/illness.
Don't you have some one at home you can argue with? really Spot.
Children drowning can be prevented - Memorial weekend is the start of summer and a start of many more children drowning.
I find that very sad, and it's the sad truth.
Patsy
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
You've a strange world view Patsy. Far more deaths from flu (or cancer, for that matter) could be prevented than could drownings. Drownings are inevitable if people own patio pools on their property. Flu and cancer, on the other hand, are preventable. That's why I brought up flu - to contrast something which can be changed with something that can't.
Everything you've posted here has made it clear that child patio pool drownings can't be prevented. Someone, somewhere, accidentally or blameably, is going to screw up over the Memorial weekend and children will drown as a result. For some reason of your own you prefer that to going along with my guaranteed fix - backfill the damn things and make them illegal.
Everything you've posted here has made it clear that child patio pool drownings can't be prevented. Someone, somewhere, accidentally or blameably, is going to screw up over the Memorial weekend and children will drown as a result. For some reason of your own you prefer that to going along with my guaranteed fix - backfill the damn things and make them illegal.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
Patsy, does most of the drownings you're seeing on your TV news relate to patio pools or is most of it out in natural settings like riverbanks or lakes? We seem to have focused entirely on child-killing machines with inadequate covers so far, against which we've found no safe answer. Owners won't consistently padlock the things, they can't prevent unsupervised child access to the things and nobody on this planet has ever known where their child is every minute of the day and night between birth and puberty - I defy you to deny any of those three comments.
Drownings in a non-domestic setting are different but I suspect they're a lot rarer. Have you a feel for that, given your predilection for on-the-hour disaster reports?
Drownings in a non-domestic setting are different but I suspect they're a lot rarer. Have you a feel for that, given your predilection for on-the-hour disaster reports?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
-
Patsy Warnick
- Posts: 4567
- Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:53 am
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
34 drownings this year - this is on the hour report from Patsy for the 6 months this year.
34 is alarming amount.
Patsy
34 is alarming amount.
Patsy
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
Patsy Warnick;1362033 wrote: 34 drownings this year - this is on the hour report from Patsy for the 6 months this year.
34 is alarming amount.
Patsy
that's insane, someone has to do something!
ours is up this year from last year, an adult just drowned in her backyard pool, another adult drowned by one of our beaches as there're are no lifeguards after 8pm.
34 is alarming amount.
Patsy
that's insane, someone has to do something!
ours is up this year from last year, an adult just drowned in her backyard pool, another adult drowned by one of our beaches as there're are no lifeguards after 8pm.
Life is just to short for drama.
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
What sort of beach is that, Odie? In England we'd use words like riverbank or lakeside, but a beach here is something that borders an ocean and isn't a cliff.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
spot;1362247 wrote: What sort of beach is that, Odie? In England we'd use words like riverbank or lakeside, but a beach here is something that borders an ocean and isn't a cliff.
It's a beach off Lake Ontario, here we don't call Lake Ontario a lakeside or riverbank.
Lake Ontario - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It's a beach off Lake Ontario, here we don't call Lake Ontario a lakeside or riverbank.
Lake Ontario - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Life is just to short for drama.
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
They do say the The white-faced Rat Monster of Ontario inhabits those parts along with the Lake Ontario Sea Serpent but, even with them around, drowning on a shore which runs to half-inch waves and no tide seems a bit feeble. Maybe they dive in and hit the bottom head-first.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
-let's hope this year will limit drownings
TORONTO - The three levels of government should work to cut the number of drownings across the province in half over the next five years, Ontario’s deputy chief coroner said Thursday.
A 47-page report revealed there were 89 accidental drownings last year between May 1 and Sept. 30 and 76 of them were men.
There was no alcohol use associated with drowning in individuals under age 14 and over age 65 but it was a contributing factor in 67% of drownings in people 15 to 64 years of age.
“If everyone of our recommendations were enacted, I think we could decrease the level of drowning deaths by 50% in the next five years,” Ontario’s deputy chief coroner for investigations Dr. Bert Lauwers said.
While the total number of drownings in Ontario were similar to previous years, what Lauwers found disturbing was the number of drownings in children under five years old rose from five in 2008 and five in 2009 to 13 in 2010.
Eight of those 13 children had access to outdoor swimming pools. “These kids are wholly dependent on family and loved ones to look after them with constant watchful supervision,” Lauwers said. “Parents need to watch their children.”
The report recommends that all Ontario municipalities enact bylaws requiring 1.22 metre-high fencing for all new swimming pools and self-closing latched gates, so children can’t get near the pool without supervision.
The province of Quebec as well as France, New Zealand and Australia have already enacted such laws, the coroner said.
The report is also recommending to the Ministry of Education that all children be taught how to swim as a component of the school curriculum so that by the time they graduate elementary school, they are better able to survive falling into a pool.
Another recommendation is to make it mandatory under the Canada Shipping Act for boaters to wear lifejackets in boats six metres long or less.
The report found that 22 out of 23 of those who drowned while boating were not wearing flotation devices.
Two more recommendations call for the creation of public educational programs and legislative changes to the Health Protection and Promotion Act to require minimum standards for recreational and non-instructional swimming in public pools.
TORONTO - The three levels of government should work to cut the number of drownings across the province in half over the next five years, Ontario’s deputy chief coroner said Thursday.
A 47-page report revealed there were 89 accidental drownings last year between May 1 and Sept. 30 and 76 of them were men.
There was no alcohol use associated with drowning in individuals under age 14 and over age 65 but it was a contributing factor in 67% of drownings in people 15 to 64 years of age.
“If everyone of our recommendations were enacted, I think we could decrease the level of drowning deaths by 50% in the next five years,” Ontario’s deputy chief coroner for investigations Dr. Bert Lauwers said.
While the total number of drownings in Ontario were similar to previous years, what Lauwers found disturbing was the number of drownings in children under five years old rose from five in 2008 and five in 2009 to 13 in 2010.
Eight of those 13 children had access to outdoor swimming pools. “These kids are wholly dependent on family and loved ones to look after them with constant watchful supervision,” Lauwers said. “Parents need to watch their children.”
The report recommends that all Ontario municipalities enact bylaws requiring 1.22 metre-high fencing for all new swimming pools and self-closing latched gates, so children can’t get near the pool without supervision.
The province of Quebec as well as France, New Zealand and Australia have already enacted such laws, the coroner said.
The report is also recommending to the Ministry of Education that all children be taught how to swim as a component of the school curriculum so that by the time they graduate elementary school, they are better able to survive falling into a pool.
Another recommendation is to make it mandatory under the Canada Shipping Act for boaters to wear lifejackets in boats six metres long or less.
The report found that 22 out of 23 of those who drowned while boating were not wearing flotation devices.
Two more recommendations call for the creation of public educational programs and legislative changes to the Health Protection and Promotion Act to require minimum standards for recreational and non-instructional swimming in public pools.
Life is just to short for drama.
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
There's an odd instance of a child drowning accidentally in a swimming pool at BBC News - Casey Anthony not guilty of murder of daughter Caylee
The hysteria in North America over being considered a guilty parent if a child accidentally drowns appears to have led to a murder charge. If this woman can get her life back onto an even keel I'll be surprised - there seems to be little protection for her from media intrusion.
The hysteria in North America over being considered a guilty parent if a child accidentally drowns appears to have led to a murder charge. If this woman can get her life back onto an even keel I'll be surprised - there seems to be little protection for her from media intrusion.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
spot;1362320 wrote: There's an odd instance of a child drowning accidentally in a swimming pool at BBC News - Casey Anthony not guilty of murder of daughter Caylee
The hysteria in North America over being considered a guilty parent if a child accidentally drowns appears to have led to a murder charge. If this woman can get her life back onto an even keel I'll be surprised - there seems to be little protection for her from media intrusion.
She was guilty, the court chose to ignore it.
She should have spent her life in jail.
The hysteria in North America over being considered a guilty parent if a child accidentally drowns appears to have led to a murder charge. If this woman can get her life back onto an even keel I'll be surprised - there seems to be little protection for her from media intrusion.
She was guilty, the court chose to ignore it.
She should have spent her life in jail.
Life is just to short for drama.
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
Odie;1362324 wrote: She was guilty, the court chose to ignore it.
She should have spent her life in jail.
You were in court, Odie? Perhaps you'd like to summarize the evidence presented to the jury for us.
It seems to me that when a prosecutor presents a Hollywood thriller script to interpret a set of facts a jury acts well within its bounds if it responds so what, there are a hundred other equally fanciful scripts, why on earth should that particular one be true.
Empathy, as I have previously noted, it completely absent from any post you make. "She was guilty", when contradicting a jury verdict, is a God-statement from someone who lacks worshippers. A more rooted comment is that she's a mother whose child is dead, that a jury preferred to believe the child drowned accidentally in a swimming pool than that the prosecutors' flights of fancy carried conviction, and the matter is consequently on topic. Or have I misinterpreted your "She should have spent her life in jail" as a personal opinion about all parents whose child drowns in a home swimming pool?
She should have spent her life in jail.
You were in court, Odie? Perhaps you'd like to summarize the evidence presented to the jury for us.
It seems to me that when a prosecutor presents a Hollywood thriller script to interpret a set of facts a jury acts well within its bounds if it responds so what, there are a hundred other equally fanciful scripts, why on earth should that particular one be true.
Empathy, as I have previously noted, it completely absent from any post you make. "She was guilty", when contradicting a jury verdict, is a God-statement from someone who lacks worshippers. A more rooted comment is that she's a mother whose child is dead, that a jury preferred to believe the child drowned accidentally in a swimming pool than that the prosecutors' flights of fancy carried conviction, and the matter is consequently on topic. Or have I misinterpreted your "She should have spent her life in jail" as a personal opinion about all parents whose child drowns in a home swimming pool?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
It'll be interesting to hear what the jury members thought, whenever we become privy of that. My guess is the prosecution failed to meet the burden of proof that the mother murdered the child or proved manslaughter rather than they believe she drowned in the swimming pool. The woman's father denied her swimming pool story, but then again, that may have just been a smart move on his part, him being a former investigator. From what I've read the entire family behaved strangely throughout.
The woman's attorney obviously represented his client properly.
Otherwise, I think you're spot-on, Spot.
The woman's attorney obviously represented his client properly.
Otherwise, I think you're spot-on, Spot.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Yet another child caught falling from a balcony
just to many lies.
ORLANDO, FLA. —
Attorneys for the state are scheduled Monday morning to present their rebuttal to the defence’s closing statements, which were interrupted Sunday by testy exchanges between the sides and a stern warning from the judge.
After Monday’s rebuttal, Judge Belvin Perry will instruct the jurors on the seven separate charges Anthony faces in a case which has riveted the United States, including first-degree murder.
The state contends Anthony was a party girl who killed her daughter Caylee by covering her face with duct tape because she got in the way of her mom’s love life.
Her attorneys contend Caylee accidentally drowned in a pool, and the troubled mother’s lies and erratic behaviour afterward were brought on by trauma from her own childhood.
“Something needed to be sacrificed, that something was either the life she wanted or the life thrust upon her. She chose to sacrifice her child,” prosecutor Jeff Ashton said during his 90-minute argument.
Casey Anthony has pleaded not guilty to first-degree murder. She could face a possible death sentence or life in prison if convicted of that charge.
Anthony also is charged with aggravated child abuse, aggravated manslaughter of a child and four counts of providing false information to law enforcement. The child abuse and manslaughter charges each carry a 30-year prison term if she’s convicted.
The defence claimed Anthony was hiding emotional distress caused by alleged sexual abuse from her father. Her father has denied that claim. The judge has ruled that no evidence of such abuse has been presented and struck it from closing arguments.
Baez began his closing argument Sunday with his biggest question: How did Caylee die? Neither prosecutors nor the defence have offered firm proof. “It can never be proven,” he said.
He attacked the prosecution’s forensic evidence. He said air analysis of the trunk of Anthony’s car, which allegedly showed air molecules consistent with decomposition, could not be duplicated.
No one could prove a stain found in the trunk was caused by Caylee’s body decomposing there. And witnesses showed maggots found in the trunk came from a bag of trash that was found there, he said.
“They throw enough against the wall and see what sticks. That is what they’re doing ... right down to the cause of death,” Baez said. He conceded his client had told elaborate lies and invented imaginary friends and even a fake father for Caylee, but he said that doesn’t mean she killed her daughter.
Baez also attacked Anthony’s father, George Anthony, as unreliable. He said a suicide note that George Anthony wrote in January 2009 that claimed no knowledge of what happened to Caylee was self-serving and the attempt was a fraud. He said George Anthony claimed he was going to kill himself with a six-pack of beer and some high-blood pressure medicine.
Casey Anthony appeared mostly stone-faced for about the first 45 minutes of the prosecution’s closing at the beginning of the day.
Ashton began his closing argument by showing a video of Casey Anthony playing with Caylee, causing Anthony to apparently choke back tears. But she quickly regained her composure.
Ashton, the prosecutor, said Caylee’s death wasn’t an accident because three pieces of duct tape were placed on her face — one on the mouth, one on the nose and one over those to be “thorough.”
He then told the jury that Anthony worried Caylee was getting to the age where she would have told Anthony’s parents that the woman was spending her days and nights with her boyfriend — not going to work and leaving Caylee with a nanny.
“Casey is very bright,” Ashton said. “Her lies are very detailed. ... But when Casey wants to do what Casey wants to do, she finds a way.”
The prosecutor then described the lies Anthony told her parents, George and Cindy Anthony, about why she couldn’t produce Caylee after the toddler was last seen June 16, 2008: that she was with a nanny named Zanny, a woman who doesn’t exist; that Anthony and her daughter were spending time in Jacksonville with a rich boyfriend who doesn’t exist; and that Zanny had been hospitalized after an out-of-town traffic accident and that they were spending time with her.
The lies only fell apart, Ashton said, a month later when a junkyard employee told George and Cindy Anthony their daughter’s car had been towed. When they picked it up, they discovered a foul odour. George Anthony, a former police officer, and the tow yard operator said it smelled like human decomposition.
Cindy Anthony then tracked down her daughter. When she couldn’t produce Caylee, her parents called police. Casey Anthony then told investigators she worked at Universal Studios theme park as an event planner. She went so far as to take them there, talk her way past security into an office building. She gave up the lie as she was walking down the hall.
Ashton then attacked the defence contention that Caylee drowned and that George Anthony helped Casey Anthony cover it up. No one faced with an accidental drowning would do that instead of calling 911, Ashton said.
“It is a trip down a rabbit hole into a bizarre world where men who love their granddaughters find them drowned and do nothing,” Ashton said. “Where men who love their granddaughters take an accident, a completely innocent act, and make it look like a murder for no reason. A world where a man who buries his pets will take the granddaughter who was the love of his life and throw her in a swamp.”
Baez conceded that Casey Anthony told elaborate lies, but he said those inventions should have signalled to investigators that “there’s something wrong with this girl.”
“Instead, they had a murder case, and that was it. That was all they were interested in was evidence of murder. There’s nothing sexy about a drowning,” Baez said.
Judge Perry angrily stopped Baez’s closing arguments after he referred to Ashton as “this laughing guy.”
ORLANDO, FLA. —
Attorneys for the state are scheduled Monday morning to present their rebuttal to the defence’s closing statements, which were interrupted Sunday by testy exchanges between the sides and a stern warning from the judge.
After Monday’s rebuttal, Judge Belvin Perry will instruct the jurors on the seven separate charges Anthony faces in a case which has riveted the United States, including first-degree murder.
The state contends Anthony was a party girl who killed her daughter Caylee by covering her face with duct tape because she got in the way of her mom’s love life.
Her attorneys contend Caylee accidentally drowned in a pool, and the troubled mother’s lies and erratic behaviour afterward were brought on by trauma from her own childhood.
“Something needed to be sacrificed, that something was either the life she wanted or the life thrust upon her. She chose to sacrifice her child,” prosecutor Jeff Ashton said during his 90-minute argument.
Casey Anthony has pleaded not guilty to first-degree murder. She could face a possible death sentence or life in prison if convicted of that charge.
Anthony also is charged with aggravated child abuse, aggravated manslaughter of a child and four counts of providing false information to law enforcement. The child abuse and manslaughter charges each carry a 30-year prison term if she’s convicted.
The defence claimed Anthony was hiding emotional distress caused by alleged sexual abuse from her father. Her father has denied that claim. The judge has ruled that no evidence of such abuse has been presented and struck it from closing arguments.
Baez began his closing argument Sunday with his biggest question: How did Caylee die? Neither prosecutors nor the defence have offered firm proof. “It can never be proven,” he said.
He attacked the prosecution’s forensic evidence. He said air analysis of the trunk of Anthony’s car, which allegedly showed air molecules consistent with decomposition, could not be duplicated.
No one could prove a stain found in the trunk was caused by Caylee’s body decomposing there. And witnesses showed maggots found in the trunk came from a bag of trash that was found there, he said.
“They throw enough against the wall and see what sticks. That is what they’re doing ... right down to the cause of death,” Baez said. He conceded his client had told elaborate lies and invented imaginary friends and even a fake father for Caylee, but he said that doesn’t mean she killed her daughter.
Baez also attacked Anthony’s father, George Anthony, as unreliable. He said a suicide note that George Anthony wrote in January 2009 that claimed no knowledge of what happened to Caylee was self-serving and the attempt was a fraud. He said George Anthony claimed he was going to kill himself with a six-pack of beer and some high-blood pressure medicine.
Casey Anthony appeared mostly stone-faced for about the first 45 minutes of the prosecution’s closing at the beginning of the day.
Ashton began his closing argument by showing a video of Casey Anthony playing with Caylee, causing Anthony to apparently choke back tears. But she quickly regained her composure.
Ashton, the prosecutor, said Caylee’s death wasn’t an accident because three pieces of duct tape were placed on her face — one on the mouth, one on the nose and one over those to be “thorough.”
He then told the jury that Anthony worried Caylee was getting to the age where she would have told Anthony’s parents that the woman was spending her days and nights with her boyfriend — not going to work and leaving Caylee with a nanny.
“Casey is very bright,” Ashton said. “Her lies are very detailed. ... But when Casey wants to do what Casey wants to do, she finds a way.”
The prosecutor then described the lies Anthony told her parents, George and Cindy Anthony, about why she couldn’t produce Caylee after the toddler was last seen June 16, 2008: that she was with a nanny named Zanny, a woman who doesn’t exist; that Anthony and her daughter were spending time in Jacksonville with a rich boyfriend who doesn’t exist; and that Zanny had been hospitalized after an out-of-town traffic accident and that they were spending time with her.
The lies only fell apart, Ashton said, a month later when a junkyard employee told George and Cindy Anthony their daughter’s car had been towed. When they picked it up, they discovered a foul odour. George Anthony, a former police officer, and the tow yard operator said it smelled like human decomposition.
Cindy Anthony then tracked down her daughter. When she couldn’t produce Caylee, her parents called police. Casey Anthony then told investigators she worked at Universal Studios theme park as an event planner. She went so far as to take them there, talk her way past security into an office building. She gave up the lie as she was walking down the hall.
Ashton then attacked the defence contention that Caylee drowned and that George Anthony helped Casey Anthony cover it up. No one faced with an accidental drowning would do that instead of calling 911, Ashton said.
“It is a trip down a rabbit hole into a bizarre world where men who love their granddaughters find them drowned and do nothing,” Ashton said. “Where men who love their granddaughters take an accident, a completely innocent act, and make it look like a murder for no reason. A world where a man who buries his pets will take the granddaughter who was the love of his life and throw her in a swamp.”
Baez conceded that Casey Anthony told elaborate lies, but he said those inventions should have signalled to investigators that “there’s something wrong with this girl.”
“Instead, they had a murder case, and that was it. That was all they were interested in was evidence of murder. There’s nothing sexy about a drowning,” Baez said.
Judge Perry angrily stopped Baez’s closing arguments after he referred to Ashton as “this laughing guy.”
Life is just to short for drama.