Islamic *type* behavior
Islamic *type* behavior
The Muslim that I know is a very religious man. But he is brainwashed too, by his culture. I don't know if it is so much the religion that does this, but just maybe the culture he lives in that brainwashes it's members. Nevertheless, he is a very nice person. Family means a lot in this religion.
Your Kitty Forum
My Website
My Website
Islamic *type* behavior
ADAM
"Quote:
Originally Posted by Diuretic
I'm with her though, secular humanism is the only logical option for humanity. Once the world is totally secular humanist there will be no religious wars and superstitition will be driven from the human mind. Big job I know but it will happen.
Wow, LuLu, and you accuse religions of trying to force their ideology on others. You know that I abhor theocracies as much as you do, but I absolutely respect the right of anyone to worship and believe however they wish. And we know that even if religious wars cease there will be other wars to take their place. Far more wars have been fought in history for reasons other than religion. What you subscribe is the very tactic taken by Communist regimes and other totalitarian governments to keep the people subservient to the state, and the result has been murderous. Religious people in oppressive regimes all over the world meet and worship in secrecy least they suffer imprisonment or death. Talibanish indeed."
+++++++++++++++ I don't understand this. Diuretic posted this and the "her" is the woman in the video.
"Quote:
Originally Posted by Diuretic
I'm with her though, secular humanism is the only logical option for humanity. Once the world is totally secular humanist there will be no religious wars and superstitition will be driven from the human mind. Big job I know but it will happen.
Wow, LuLu, and you accuse religions of trying to force their ideology on others. You know that I abhor theocracies as much as you do, but I absolutely respect the right of anyone to worship and believe however they wish. And we know that even if religious wars cease there will be other wars to take their place. Far more wars have been fought in history for reasons other than religion. What you subscribe is the very tactic taken by Communist regimes and other totalitarian governments to keep the people subservient to the state, and the result has been murderous. Religious people in oppressive regimes all over the world meet and worship in secrecy least they suffer imprisonment or death. Talibanish indeed."
+++++++++++++++ I don't understand this. Diuretic posted this and the "her" is the woman in the video.
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
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Adam Zapple
- Posts: 977
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:13 am
Islamic *type* behavior
My sincere apologies. I got my posters crossed.
Islamic *type* behavior
XOXO....for ONCE, it wasn't MOI! 
Adam & I have a history, Diuretic....I can make his TEETH ITCH!
Adam & I have a history, Diuretic....I can make his TEETH ITCH!
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
Islamic *type* behavior
And I've been known to make Adam CROSS! 
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
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Adam Zapple
- Posts: 977
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:13 am
Islamic *type* behavior
How does that square with your statement saying that with secular governments "superstition (ie religion) will be driven from the human mind." At the least sounds like the state imposing a non-religious ideology at worst it sounds like indoctrination and brainwashing. The key is for the two to peacefully coexist, neither dictating to the other.
Islamic *type* behavior
Bryn Mawr wrote: Their nationallity is important as is the trigger that caused them to act.
Blaming it on Islam as a root cause is not only a gross mirepresentation but is also a source of more resentment and an entrencement of the "demonisation" process that the media have been trying to instill.
This is a specific case with a spefic cause.
I dont think any one is blaming it on Islam Bryn. The terrorists however are Islamic.
I get you ok ? But the fact is their methods are unsound and they will not achieve the desired results. Thats what this thread is about.
Blaming it on Islam as a root cause is not only a gross mirepresentation but is also a source of more resentment and an entrencement of the "demonisation" process that the media have been trying to instill.
This is a specific case with a spefic cause.
I dont think any one is blaming it on Islam Bryn. The terrorists however are Islamic.
I get you ok ? But the fact is their methods are unsound and they will not achieve the desired results. Thats what this thread is about.
I AM AWESOME MAN
Islamic *type* behavior
Thus...their nationality is irrelevant.
I believe Richard Reid (sp?) is a British citizen, too. We are discussing "Islamic 'types'," after all. It's very difficult for me to accept the old "we must look at what's been done to them" idea when we're talking about a British citizen who grew up in British culture.
I believe Richard Reid (sp?) is a British citizen, too. We are discussing "Islamic 'types'," after all. It's very difficult for me to accept the old "we must look at what's been done to them" idea when we're talking about a British citizen who grew up in British culture.
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
Islamic *type* behavior
Nomad wrote: I dont think any one is blaming it on Islam Bryn. The terrorists however are Islamic.
I get you ok ? But the fact is their methods are unsound and they will not achieve the desired results. Thats what this thread is about.
bryn mawr wrote:
The bombing of the London tubes was a direct consequence of Blair taking us into Iraq.
The bombers were British and have directly said as much.
lulu2 wrote:
Their nationality hardly matters, does it? They are part of a lunatic group which is determined to PUNISH every misdeed they find, based on their mandate from Allah.
If that is not saying directly that it's becaue of Islam then what is?
This thread's about the demonisation of one part of society to excuse the excesses of another.
I get you ok ? But the fact is their methods are unsound and they will not achieve the desired results. Thats what this thread is about.
bryn mawr wrote:
The bombing of the London tubes was a direct consequence of Blair taking us into Iraq.
The bombers were British and have directly said as much.
lulu2 wrote:
Their nationality hardly matters, does it? They are part of a lunatic group which is determined to PUNISH every misdeed they find, based on their mandate from Allah.
If that is not saying directly that it's becaue of Islam then what is?
This thread's about the demonisation of one part of society to excuse the excesses of another.
Islamic *type* behavior
I don't know how many times I need to say this....it's about a lunatic fringe. NOBODY has blamed all Muslims. Show me where it says so. You will not find it in anything I've said.
ALL religious fundamentalists are dangerous...these self-proclaimed "martyrs" are especially so because they target large groups.
If we ignore the background/religion of these people, we do so at our peril. If we stick our heads into the proverbial sand, we play into their hands. Negotiations and non-violence are ridiculous when you're dealing with someone who thinks they've got a mandate from their god to destroy the infidel. They do not respect us for our perceived 'weakness' and, in fact, would continue to provoke us as long as possible.
ALL religious fundamentalists are dangerous...these self-proclaimed "martyrs" are especially so because they target large groups.
If we ignore the background/religion of these people, we do so at our peril. If we stick our heads into the proverbial sand, we play into their hands. Negotiations and non-violence are ridiculous when you're dealing with someone who thinks they've got a mandate from their god to destroy the infidel. They do not respect us for our perceived 'weakness' and, in fact, would continue to provoke us as long as possible.
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
Islamic *type* behavior
Bryn Mawr wrote: If that is not saying directly that it's becaue of Islam then what is?
This thread's about the demonisation of one part of society to excuse the excesses of another.
Your being stubborn or dense. I dont have a hard on for Islamists. You can take my word for it or not. Either way is fine.
This thread's about the demonisation of one part of society to excuse the excesses of another.
Your being stubborn or dense. I dont have a hard on for Islamists. You can take my word for it or not. Either way is fine.
I AM AWESOME MAN
Islamic *type* behavior
"This thread's about the demonisation of one part of society to excuse the excesses of another."
You know--I'm not going to accept THIS one, either! Millions of people have been oppressed by millions of others over time and not all have turned themselves into 14th century "martyrs" trying to obliterate the innocent anywhere they can to make a point.
If you want to look at what's probably been the MOST oppressed group, take a look at women! We've been denied our rights for centuries and have only gained them in SOME parts of the world within the last hundred or so years.
(I'd like to remind you that black men could vote in this country long before women of any color.)
And yet, you don't see US appointing ourselves as "swords of the lord" and trying to SMITE the infidel!
So--don't try to pass terrorist behavior off as anything more than savagery, self-gratifying, "divinely inspired" revenge. I'll take no responsibility for it.
You know--I'm not going to accept THIS one, either! Millions of people have been oppressed by millions of others over time and not all have turned themselves into 14th century "martyrs" trying to obliterate the innocent anywhere they can to make a point.
If you want to look at what's probably been the MOST oppressed group, take a look at women! We've been denied our rights for centuries and have only gained them in SOME parts of the world within the last hundred or so years.
(I'd like to remind you that black men could vote in this country long before women of any color.)
And yet, you don't see US appointing ourselves as "swords of the lord" and trying to SMITE the infidel!
So--don't try to pass terrorist behavior off as anything more than savagery, self-gratifying, "divinely inspired" revenge. I'll take no responsibility for it.
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
Islamic *type* behavior
Nomad wrote: Your being stubborn or dense. I dont have a hard on for Islamists. You can take my word for it or not. Either way is fine.
I'm not for one moment suggesting that you do - you said no-one was blaming Islam itself and I pointed out where Lulu was doing just that.
To rubbish the stated reasons of the people involved in favour of their "mandate from Allah" no matter how qualified is to place the cause directly at the door of Islam.
To state that there is no use in talking to them because "you're dealing with someone who thinks they've got a mandate from their god to destroy the infidel." is not worth a response because all that leave as a solution is genocide.
We *must* have a position that admits a solution other than kill all the bastards before they kill us and that solution has to start with dialogue.
I'm not for one moment suggesting that you do - you said no-one was blaming Islam itself and I pointed out where Lulu was doing just that.
To rubbish the stated reasons of the people involved in favour of their "mandate from Allah" no matter how qualified is to place the cause directly at the door of Islam.
To state that there is no use in talking to them because "you're dealing with someone who thinks they've got a mandate from their god to destroy the infidel." is not worth a response because all that leave as a solution is genocide.
We *must* have a position that admits a solution other than kill all the bastards before they kill us and that solution has to start with dialogue.
Islamic *type* behavior
Lulu2 wrote: "This thread's about the demonisation of one part of society to excuse the excesses of another."
You know--I'm not going to accept THIS one, either! Millions of people have been oppressed by millions of others over time and not all have turned themselves into 14th century "martyrs" trying to obliterate the innocent anywhere they can to make a point.
If you want to look at what's probably been the MOST oppressed group, take a look at women! We've been denied our rights for centuries and have only gained them in SOME parts of the world within the last hundred or so years.
(I'd like to remind you that black men could vote in this country long before women of any color.)
And yet, you don't see US appointing ourselves as "swords of the lord" and trying to SMITE the infidel!
So--don't try to pass terrorist behavior off as anything more than savagery, self-gratifying, "divinely inspired" revenge. I'll take no responsibility for it.
And indeed you don't.
You do see the USA appointing themselves as the saviour of the world from the evils of communism (MaCarthy et al) and nowadays from the evils of terrorism - they are verily trying to smite the infidel.
Why did the black man fight against slavery?
Why did the Sufferagetts fight for the vote?
Because, in your words, they were oppressed.
Why do the Palestinians fight the Israelis?
Because they're after savagery, self-gratifying, "divinely inspired" revenge?
Do you see *no* oppression there?
What is *your* solution to the problem?
You know--I'm not going to accept THIS one, either! Millions of people have been oppressed by millions of others over time and not all have turned themselves into 14th century "martyrs" trying to obliterate the innocent anywhere they can to make a point.
If you want to look at what's probably been the MOST oppressed group, take a look at women! We've been denied our rights for centuries and have only gained them in SOME parts of the world within the last hundred or so years.
(I'd like to remind you that black men could vote in this country long before women of any color.)
And yet, you don't see US appointing ourselves as "swords of the lord" and trying to SMITE the infidel!
So--don't try to pass terrorist behavior off as anything more than savagery, self-gratifying, "divinely inspired" revenge. I'll take no responsibility for it.
And indeed you don't.
You do see the USA appointing themselves as the saviour of the world from the evils of communism (MaCarthy et al) and nowadays from the evils of terrorism - they are verily trying to smite the infidel.
Why did the black man fight against slavery?
Why did the Sufferagetts fight for the vote?
Because, in your words, they were oppressed.
Why do the Palestinians fight the Israelis?
Because they're after savagery, self-gratifying, "divinely inspired" revenge?
Do you see *no* oppression there?
What is *your* solution to the problem?
Islamic *type* behavior
Bryn Mawr wrote: I'm not for one moment suggesting that you do - you said no-one was blaming Islam itself and I pointed out where Lulu was doing just that.
To rubbish the stated reasons of the people involved in favour of their "mandate from Allah" no matter how qualified is to place the cause directly at the door of Islam.
To state that there is no use in talking to them because "you're dealing with someone who thinks they've got a mandate from their god to destroy the infidel." is not worth a response because all that leave as a solution is genocide.
We *must* have a position that admits a solution other than kill all the bastards before they kill us and that solution has to start with dialogue.
I dont want to kill anyone Bryn. Im a friggin life lover. I would do backflips if everyone sat down and hashed it out. Again thats what started this thread.
To rubbish the stated reasons of the people involved in favour of their "mandate from Allah" no matter how qualified is to place the cause directly at the door of Islam.
To state that there is no use in talking to them because "you're dealing with someone who thinks they've got a mandate from their god to destroy the infidel." is not worth a response because all that leave as a solution is genocide.
We *must* have a position that admits a solution other than kill all the bastards before they kill us and that solution has to start with dialogue.
I dont want to kill anyone Bryn. Im a friggin life lover. I would do backflips if everyone sat down and hashed it out. Again thats what started this thread.
I AM AWESOME MAN
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Adam Zapple
- Posts: 977
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:13 am
Islamic *type* behavior
Bryn Mawr wrote:
Why did the black man fight against slavery?
Rosa Parks wasn't wearing an explosive vest when she got on that bus.
Why did the black man fight against slavery?
Rosa Parks wasn't wearing an explosive vest when she got on that bus.
Islamic *type* behavior
BRYN "You do see the USA appointing themselves as the saviour of the world from the evils of communism (MaCarthy et al) and nowadays from the evils of terrorism - they are verily trying to smite the infidel."
WHAT? And just where and when have I said that? I wonder whose posts you're reading. How many times do I need to say that there've been oppressed peoples/genders throughout the history of the human species and most have overcome that oppression WITHOUT the use of planned attacks against innocent peoples.
As Adam said, Rosa Parks wasn't wearing a self-explosive vest when she got on that bus. Martin Luther King didn't plan and direct massive murders of innocent civilians. Suffragettes didn't hide bombs in voting booths.
Correct me if I'm wrong, Bryn, but what I hear in your comments is the almost overwhelming need to excuse and explain the actions of people for whom there is no excuse and no logical motivation for murder and mayhem other than a sick need for revenge and overwhelming blood lust. There are other ways to accomplish an end but these people would rather find a "martyr's" death than look for peace. Let's be very honest here...they're suicidal and crazed!
Meanwhile, society needs to protect itself against terrorists, the overwhelming majority of whom are young, male Islamic Jihadists!
To my chagrin, I found myself agreeing with something Ann Coulter said recently about "profiling."
I'll quote her here:
"But it is a fact that you could not catch 24 Muslim terrorists by surveiling everyone in Britain equally.
Without the ethnic profiling going on outside of airports, no security procedure currently permissible inside airports would have prevented a terrorist attack that would have left thousands dead.
Airplanes, ports, bridges, subways and shopping malls cannot ever be sanitized against every type of attack that can be dreamed up by fanatics engaged in asymmetrical warfare. WE HAVE TO TARGET THE FANATICS THEMSELVES. (Emphasis is mine...) Baby formula doesn't kill people. Islamic fascists kill people."
Now, Bryn, before you get your knickers knotted....please note, she's talking about FASCISTS....as are the rest of us.
WHAT? And just where and when have I said that? I wonder whose posts you're reading. How many times do I need to say that there've been oppressed peoples/genders throughout the history of the human species and most have overcome that oppression WITHOUT the use of planned attacks against innocent peoples.
As Adam said, Rosa Parks wasn't wearing a self-explosive vest when she got on that bus. Martin Luther King didn't plan and direct massive murders of innocent civilians. Suffragettes didn't hide bombs in voting booths.
Correct me if I'm wrong, Bryn, but what I hear in your comments is the almost overwhelming need to excuse and explain the actions of people for whom there is no excuse and no logical motivation for murder and mayhem other than a sick need for revenge and overwhelming blood lust. There are other ways to accomplish an end but these people would rather find a "martyr's" death than look for peace. Let's be very honest here...they're suicidal and crazed!
Meanwhile, society needs to protect itself against terrorists, the overwhelming majority of whom are young, male Islamic Jihadists!
To my chagrin, I found myself agreeing with something Ann Coulter said recently about "profiling."
I'll quote her here:"But it is a fact that you could not catch 24 Muslim terrorists by surveiling everyone in Britain equally.
Without the ethnic profiling going on outside of airports, no security procedure currently permissible inside airports would have prevented a terrorist attack that would have left thousands dead.
Airplanes, ports, bridges, subways and shopping malls cannot ever be sanitized against every type of attack that can be dreamed up by fanatics engaged in asymmetrical warfare. WE HAVE TO TARGET THE FANATICS THEMSELVES. (Emphasis is mine...) Baby formula doesn't kill people. Islamic fascists kill people."
Now, Bryn, before you get your knickers knotted....please note, she's talking about FASCISTS....as are the rest of us.
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
Islamic *type* behavior
After being away for a day and reading through a few pages of member saying things like "and all the terrorists are..." and another member going "exactly" and the ridiculous statements being then assumed to be fact...
I give up on this thread. It was started as an offensive and biased OP and it can live on under that premise. That is all it is and it has been recognised as that. The only "facts" that it invites are actually opinion. Go at 'er.
I give up on this thread. It was started as an offensive and biased OP and it can live on under that premise. That is all it is and it has been recognised as that. The only "facts" that it invites are actually opinion. Go at 'er.
Islamic *type* behavior
Lulu2 wrote: BRYN "You do see the USA appointing themselves as the saviour of the world from the evils of communism (MaCarthy et al) and nowadays from the evils of terrorism - they are verily trying to smite the infidel."
WHAT? And just where and when have I said that? I wonder whose posts you're reading. How many times do I need to say that there've been oppressed peoples/genders throughout the history of the human species and most have overcome that oppression WITHOUT the use of planned attacks against innocent peoples.
Direct quote from your post #166 - "And yet, you don't see US appointing ourselves as "swords of the lord" and trying to SMITE the infidel!"
I thought it was a perfectly valid response myself.
Lulu2 wrote: As Adam said, Rosa Parks wasn't wearing a self-explosive vest when she got on that bus. Martin Luther King didn't plan and direct massive murders of innocent civilians. Suffragettes didn't hide bombs in voting booths.
Correct me if I'm wrong, Bryn, but what I hear in your comments is the almost overwhelming need to excuse and explain the actions of people for whom there is no excuse and no logical motivation for murder and mayhem other than a sick need for revenge and overwhelming blood lust. There are other ways to accomplish an end but these people would rather find a "martyr's" death than look for peace. Let's be very honest here...they're suicidal and crazed!
And Rosa Parks was asked to move her seat - not crushed within her own home when the tanks moved in. Likewise, Martin Luther King was fighting suppression rather than opression. Compare like to like please.
I correct you, what you hear is an attempt to counterballance statements like "the actions of people for whom there is no excuse and no logical motivation for murder and mayhem other than a sick need for revenge and overwhelming blood lust. There are other ways to accomplish an end but these people would rather find a "martyr's" death than look for peace".
Lulu2 wrote: Meanwhile, society needs to protect itself against terrorists, the overwhelming majority of whom are young, male Islamic Jihadists!
Only if you look at now in isolation - and I'd dispute it even then. Over the past 50 years they would be a distinct minority behind the Europeans, South Americans, Indians, Israelis, Africans ......
Lulu2 wrote: To my chagrin, I found myself agreeing with something Ann Coulter said recently about "profiling." I'll quote her here:
"But it is a fact that you could not catch 24 Muslim terrorists by surveiling everyone in Britain equally.
Without the ethnic profiling going on outside of airports, no security procedure currently permissible inside airports would have prevented a terrorist attack that would have left thousands dead.
Airplanes, ports, bridges, subways and shopping malls cannot ever be sanitized against every type of attack that can be dreamed up by fanatics engaged in asymmetrical warfare. WE HAVE TO TARGET THE FANATICS THEMSELVES. (Emphasis is mine...) Baby formula doesn't kill people. Islamic fascists kill people."
Now, Bryn, before you get your knickers knotted....please note, she's talking about FASCISTS....as are the rest of us.
Shall I tell you why ethnic profiling can never work?
It's too damned easy for them to recruit someone out of profile to perform the actions - someone who'd walk straight through all your precautions because you're not looking.
WHAT? And just where and when have I said that? I wonder whose posts you're reading. How many times do I need to say that there've been oppressed peoples/genders throughout the history of the human species and most have overcome that oppression WITHOUT the use of planned attacks against innocent peoples.
Direct quote from your post #166 - "And yet, you don't see US appointing ourselves as "swords of the lord" and trying to SMITE the infidel!"
I thought it was a perfectly valid response myself.
Lulu2 wrote: As Adam said, Rosa Parks wasn't wearing a self-explosive vest when she got on that bus. Martin Luther King didn't plan and direct massive murders of innocent civilians. Suffragettes didn't hide bombs in voting booths.
Correct me if I'm wrong, Bryn, but what I hear in your comments is the almost overwhelming need to excuse and explain the actions of people for whom there is no excuse and no logical motivation for murder and mayhem other than a sick need for revenge and overwhelming blood lust. There are other ways to accomplish an end but these people would rather find a "martyr's" death than look for peace. Let's be very honest here...they're suicidal and crazed!
And Rosa Parks was asked to move her seat - not crushed within her own home when the tanks moved in. Likewise, Martin Luther King was fighting suppression rather than opression. Compare like to like please.
I correct you, what you hear is an attempt to counterballance statements like "the actions of people for whom there is no excuse and no logical motivation for murder and mayhem other than a sick need for revenge and overwhelming blood lust. There are other ways to accomplish an end but these people would rather find a "martyr's" death than look for peace".
Lulu2 wrote: Meanwhile, society needs to protect itself against terrorists, the overwhelming majority of whom are young, male Islamic Jihadists!
Only if you look at now in isolation - and I'd dispute it even then. Over the past 50 years they would be a distinct minority behind the Europeans, South Americans, Indians, Israelis, Africans ......
Lulu2 wrote: To my chagrin, I found myself agreeing with something Ann Coulter said recently about "profiling."
I'll quote her here:"But it is a fact that you could not catch 24 Muslim terrorists by surveiling everyone in Britain equally.
Without the ethnic profiling going on outside of airports, no security procedure currently permissible inside airports would have prevented a terrorist attack that would have left thousands dead.
Airplanes, ports, bridges, subways and shopping malls cannot ever be sanitized against every type of attack that can be dreamed up by fanatics engaged in asymmetrical warfare. WE HAVE TO TARGET THE FANATICS THEMSELVES. (Emphasis is mine...) Baby formula doesn't kill people. Islamic fascists kill people."
Now, Bryn, before you get your knickers knotted....please note, she's talking about FASCISTS....as are the rest of us.
Shall I tell you why ethnic profiling can never work?
It's too damned easy for them to recruit someone out of profile to perform the actions - someone who'd walk straight through all your precautions because you're not looking.
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Accountable
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- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Islamic *type* behavior
koan wrote:
I give up on this thread. 'kay :yh_wave
I give up on this thread. 'kay :yh_wave
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Accountable
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- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Islamic *type* behavior
Lulu2 wrote: BRYN "You do see the USA appointing themselves as the saviour of the world from the evils of communism (MaCarthy et al) and nowadays from the evils of terrorism - they are verily trying to smite the infidel."
WHAT? And just where and when have I said that? I wonder whose posts you're reading. How many times do I need to say that there've been oppressed peoples/genders throughout the history of the human species and most have overcome that oppression WITHOUT the use of planned attacks against innocent peoples.
As Adam said, Rosa Parks wasn't wearing a self-explosive vest when she got on that bus. Martin Luther King didn't plan and direct massive murders of innocent civilians. Suffragettes didn't hide bombs in voting booths.
Correct me if I'm wrong, Bryn, but what I hear in your comments is the almost overwhelming need to excuse and explain the actions of people for whom there is no excuse and no logical motivation for murder and mayhem other than a sick need for revenge and overwhelming blood lust. There are other ways to accomplish an end but these people would rather find a "martyr's" death than look for peace. Let's be very honest here...they're suicidal and crazed!
Meanwhile, society needs to protect itself against terrorists, the overwhelming majority of whom are young, male Islamic Jihadists!
To my chagrin, I found myself agreeing with something Ann Coulter said recently about "profiling." I'll quote her here:
"But it is a fact that you could not catch 24 Muslim terrorists by surveiling everyone in Britain equally.
Without the ethnic profiling going on outside of airports, no security procedure currently permissible inside airports would have prevented a terrorist attack that would have left thousands dead.
Airplanes, ports, bridges, subways and shopping malls cannot ever be sanitized against every type of attack that can be dreamed up by fanatics engaged in asymmetrical warfare. WE HAVE TO TARGET THE FANATICS THEMSELVES. (Emphasis is mine...) Baby formula doesn't kill people. Islamic fascists kill people."
Now, Bryn, before you get your knickers knotted....please note, she's talking about FASCISTS....as are the rest of us.
Welcome to the dark side, Lulu. :yh_hugs
WHAT? And just where and when have I said that? I wonder whose posts you're reading. How many times do I need to say that there've been oppressed peoples/genders throughout the history of the human species and most have overcome that oppression WITHOUT the use of planned attacks against innocent peoples.
As Adam said, Rosa Parks wasn't wearing a self-explosive vest when she got on that bus. Martin Luther King didn't plan and direct massive murders of innocent civilians. Suffragettes didn't hide bombs in voting booths.
Correct me if I'm wrong, Bryn, but what I hear in your comments is the almost overwhelming need to excuse and explain the actions of people for whom there is no excuse and no logical motivation for murder and mayhem other than a sick need for revenge and overwhelming blood lust. There are other ways to accomplish an end but these people would rather find a "martyr's" death than look for peace. Let's be very honest here...they're suicidal and crazed!
Meanwhile, society needs to protect itself against terrorists, the overwhelming majority of whom are young, male Islamic Jihadists!
To my chagrin, I found myself agreeing with something Ann Coulter said recently about "profiling."
I'll quote her here:"But it is a fact that you could not catch 24 Muslim terrorists by surveiling everyone in Britain equally.
Without the ethnic profiling going on outside of airports, no security procedure currently permissible inside airports would have prevented a terrorist attack that would have left thousands dead.
Airplanes, ports, bridges, subways and shopping malls cannot ever be sanitized against every type of attack that can be dreamed up by fanatics engaged in asymmetrical warfare. WE HAVE TO TARGET THE FANATICS THEMSELVES. (Emphasis is mine...) Baby formula doesn't kill people. Islamic fascists kill people."
Now, Bryn, before you get your knickers knotted....please note, she's talking about FASCISTS....as are the rest of us.
Welcome to the dark side, Lulu. :yh_hugs
Islamic *type* behavior
koan wrote: After being away for a day and reading through a few pages of member saying things like "and all the terrorists are..." and another member going "exactly" and the ridiculous statements being then assumed to be fact...
I give up on this thread. It was started as an offensive and biased OP and it can live on under that premise. That is all it is and it has been recognised as that. The only "facts" that it invites are actually opinion. Go at 'er.
I guess you would know. After all you are Koan. I think that about sums it all up. Dont you ?
I give up on this thread. It was started as an offensive and biased OP and it can live on under that premise. That is all it is and it has been recognised as that. The only "facts" that it invites are actually opinion. Go at 'er.
I guess you would know. After all you are Koan. I think that about sums it all up. Dont you ?
I AM AWESOME MAN
Islamic *type* behavior
Scrat wrote: No we're "showing the Arabs the path to democracy" and if we bomb, rape, murder, starve, torment and dehumanize them enough they will eventually come around to our way of thinking.
At least that's the theory anyway.
Honestly I fail to see why anyone would oppose democracy...
Democracy doesnt mean giving up anyones religion.
In fact it encourages freedom of religion, with the potential of a better economy.
But hey whatever.
At least that's the theory anyway.
Honestly I fail to see why anyone would oppose democracy...
Democracy doesnt mean giving up anyones religion.
In fact it encourages freedom of religion, with the potential of a better economy.
But hey whatever.
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Adam Zapple
- Posts: 977
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:13 am
Islamic *type* behavior
Bryn - you first brought up the black man fighting for his human rights. When we point out that they achieved their goals peacefully, you write:
And Rosa Parks was asked to move her seat - not crushed within her own home when the tanks moved in. Likewise, Martin Luther King was fighting suppression rather than opression. Compare like to like please.
There were no tanks but they were lynched, their children were killed in church bombings, civil rights workers were taken down dark dirt roads and executed, they faced police batons and the assassins bullet. Yet they marched peacefully, took the moral high road and changed society. You know the outcome would have been much different had they taken up violence to make their case.
And Rosa Parks was asked to move her seat - not crushed within her own home when the tanks moved in. Likewise, Martin Luther King was fighting suppression rather than opression. Compare like to like please.
There were no tanks but they were lynched, their children were killed in church bombings, civil rights workers were taken down dark dirt roads and executed, they faced police batons and the assassins bullet. Yet they marched peacefully, took the moral high road and changed society. You know the outcome would have been much different had they taken up violence to make their case.
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RedGlitter
- Posts: 15777
- Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am
Islamic *type* behavior
Sometimes a duck is a duck. :-3
Islamic *type* behavior
K.Snyder wrote: Honestly I fail to see why anyone would oppose democracy...
Democracy doesnt mean giving up anyones religion.
In fact it encourages freedom of religion, with the potential of a better economy.
But hey whatever.
Democracy imposed from without is not democracy but tyranny
Democracy doesnt mean giving up anyones religion.
In fact it encourages freedom of religion, with the potential of a better economy.
But hey whatever.
Democracy imposed from without is not democracy but tyranny
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Adam Zapple
- Posts: 977
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:13 am
Islamic *type* behavior
Scrat wrote: All well and true AZ but I have one question.
Would you like to be a black person in America today? Please tell me how far we have come since the 60s.
The slightest critical look at racial relations in America today will only tell you America is not a model of anything to be aspired to.
My son is black, he is doing quite well thank you. Can't think of a better country for him to live and excel in. Scrat, why do you live here, dude? Are you a masochist or something? Pick one of those countries where things are so much better than America, Saudi Arabia for instance, and go make a better life for yourself.
Would you like to be a black person in America today? Please tell me how far we have come since the 60s.
The slightest critical look at racial relations in America today will only tell you America is not a model of anything to be aspired to.
My son is black, he is doing quite well thank you. Can't think of a better country for him to live and excel in. Scrat, why do you live here, dude? Are you a masochist or something? Pick one of those countries where things are so much better than America, Saudi Arabia for instance, and go make a better life for yourself.
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Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Islamic *type* behavior
Scrat wrote: Funny, your average American is scrabbling to get by now. Most Americans live paycheck to paycheck no hope for a retirement (except living off of their kids) and can barely afford to take a weekend jaunt let alone a real vacation.
What is the debt load of the average American family? What is the rate of bankruptcy?Completely irrelevant in the context of democracy, just as you pointed out about religion.
What is the debt load of the average American family? What is the rate of bankruptcy?Completely irrelevant in the context of democracy, just as you pointed out about religion.
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Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Islamic *type* behavior
Adam Zapple wrote: Scrat, why do you live here, dude? Are you a masochist or something? Pick one of those countries where things are so much better than America, Saudi Arabia for instance, and go make a better life for yourself.He's never answered this question in all the times he's been asked (unless I missed one). Maybe it's because doing so would require action rather than rhetoric. :rolleyes:
Islamic *type* behavior
Scrat wrote: That's because you are ignorant and unworldly. And throughly brainwashed.
Neither does living in another type system. Iraq was an Islamic state but Christians were allowed to worship there the same with Jordan, Syria and many other places in the Middle East. Belarus is a communist country but there are many different religions that live there and worship there.
Jehovah Witnesses are not welcome though. They can practice the religion but they are arrested if they start harassing people at dinner time. Why? Because the people who they harass in turn harass the local police chief till they (the JWs) are told to shut up and stop the harassment.
Funny, your average American is scrabbling to get by now. Most Americans live paycheck to paycheck no hope for a retirement (except living off of their kids) and can barely afford to take a weekend jaunt let alone a real vacation.
What is the debt load of the average American family? What is the rate of bankruptcy?
Your average upper mid class Saudi citizen lives in a palace 99% of Americans can only dream of.
Democracy is a word. Iraq was an authoritarian patriarchy before we came. Semms now the people are better off huh?
But hey, whatever. :-3
Your delusional
Neither does living in another type system. Iraq was an Islamic state but Christians were allowed to worship there the same with Jordan, Syria and many other places in the Middle East. Belarus is a communist country but there are many different religions that live there and worship there.
Jehovah Witnesses are not welcome though. They can practice the religion but they are arrested if they start harassing people at dinner time. Why? Because the people who they harass in turn harass the local police chief till they (the JWs) are told to shut up and stop the harassment.
Funny, your average American is scrabbling to get by now. Most Americans live paycheck to paycheck no hope for a retirement (except living off of their kids) and can barely afford to take a weekend jaunt let alone a real vacation.
What is the debt load of the average American family? What is the rate of bankruptcy?
Your average upper mid class Saudi citizen lives in a palace 99% of Americans can only dream of.
Democracy is a word. Iraq was an authoritarian patriarchy before we came. Semms now the people are better off huh?
But hey, whatever. :-3
Your delusional
Islamic *type* behavior
SCRAT " That's because you are ignorant and unworldly. And throughly brainwashed. "
K. SNYDER "Your delusional"
(Charming.)
Scrat, I don't know how much travel you've done outside the U.S. I've been in many Muslim countries and seen the standard of living. Outside the oil-rich countries, life is very grim. Waterways are fouled, forests destroyed and womens' lives are narrowed by legal and social restrictions.
Much of this contributes to the overwhelming resentment blazing in the hearts of terrorists. Obviously, it in no way excuses the barbarity and savage behavior of the murderers. Nothing does.
K. SNYDER "Your delusional"
(Charming.)
Scrat, I don't know how much travel you've done outside the U.S. I've been in many Muslim countries and seen the standard of living. Outside the oil-rich countries, life is very grim. Waterways are fouled, forests destroyed and womens' lives are narrowed by legal and social restrictions.
Much of this contributes to the overwhelming resentment blazing in the hearts of terrorists. Obviously, it in no way excuses the barbarity and savage behavior of the murderers. Nothing does.
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
Islamic *type* behavior
I apologize for not having read all 20 pages and for risking redundancy, but I'd like to throw in a more sympathetic perspective.
The OP raised the issue of Middle-Easterners not thinking for themselves and not objecting to the type of ideology imposed on them. I think there is a number of reasons for this:
1) dire poverty
While Qatar or Saudi Arabia have a large number of wealthy, educated citizens, this cannot and should not be extrapolated to the ordinary fellah, who lives hand to mouth. Extreme poverty leads to a lack of education, and it is really only through education that one achieves the level of critical thinking required to question the establishment and think of positive, constructive solutions. Let's not forget that Martin Luther King was a doctor of Theology. Without education, there is also no political representation and little access to a peaceful public forum.
Once we establish that, we can see why it is precisely the poor and debased who are most susceptible to brainwashing, for they do not have the tools to resist and counteract it. And brainwashing is what the political leaders do, taking advantage of the misery and resentment of the masses and focusing it on the West. This is a classic scapegoat scenario.
2) early indoctrination
Islamic schools are nurseries for fundamentalists, and an easy way of recruiting hopeless youth is by offering certain advantages (like food or things boys covet in order to attract them). If your daily meal is coming from the school, then you go, especially when you hope that by getting some education, you will be able to better help your family in the future. Of course, the schools also serve fundamentalist ideas along with the food. And that's not restricted to Muslims by any means: I dread Christian charities in Africa which inoculate the population with our own brand of fundamentalism. I am an observing Christian, but I don't believe that anyone should come to Christ coerced by food or medical supplies. On the contrary, I think people should be educated so they can choose their beliefs (and preserving one's ancient creed should be part of that).
Also, I was told by someone who lived in the Middle East that there are training camps for boys, who are taken away from their families and brainwashed (not only as far as the West is concerned, but also what acceptable Islam is, how women should be treated, etc).
3) the power of theocracy
In terms of self-preservation, theocracy is probably one of the most successful forms of government, in that it allows the government to use religion as an endorsement. Anywhere where there is misery, poverty, disenchantment, hopelessness, people are bound to be religious because religion offers solace and consolation. Therefore, people are more likely to obey a government which appears to be supported by God and fulfilling God's dicta and less likely to question it.
I don't think suicide bombers come from influential, wealthy families. After all, why hasn't Bin Laden blown himself up already? Wouldn't that make him a greater martyr? It's obvious that the ones to blame the most are not the brainwashed youth, who were conditioned/programmed to believe that what they are doing is right and God-abiding, but the ones who are manipulating them. And these particular men ARE educated (often in North-American or European universities) and much better equipped to realize that what they are doing is by no means what any God would endorse. But they have their own political interests, which have nothing to do with God and everything to do with power.
Lastly, I think that what a previous poster was saying about sexual repression is probably true. And another manner of testosterone release is violence...
Now what preoccupies me is why second-generation youths are turning against their own countries. The vulnerability of adolescence? A combination of lacking direction and our own prejudices?
The OP raised the issue of Middle-Easterners not thinking for themselves and not objecting to the type of ideology imposed on them. I think there is a number of reasons for this:
1) dire poverty
While Qatar or Saudi Arabia have a large number of wealthy, educated citizens, this cannot and should not be extrapolated to the ordinary fellah, who lives hand to mouth. Extreme poverty leads to a lack of education, and it is really only through education that one achieves the level of critical thinking required to question the establishment and think of positive, constructive solutions. Let's not forget that Martin Luther King was a doctor of Theology. Without education, there is also no political representation and little access to a peaceful public forum.
Once we establish that, we can see why it is precisely the poor and debased who are most susceptible to brainwashing, for they do not have the tools to resist and counteract it. And brainwashing is what the political leaders do, taking advantage of the misery and resentment of the masses and focusing it on the West. This is a classic scapegoat scenario.
2) early indoctrination
Islamic schools are nurseries for fundamentalists, and an easy way of recruiting hopeless youth is by offering certain advantages (like food or things boys covet in order to attract them). If your daily meal is coming from the school, then you go, especially when you hope that by getting some education, you will be able to better help your family in the future. Of course, the schools also serve fundamentalist ideas along with the food. And that's not restricted to Muslims by any means: I dread Christian charities in Africa which inoculate the population with our own brand of fundamentalism. I am an observing Christian, but I don't believe that anyone should come to Christ coerced by food or medical supplies. On the contrary, I think people should be educated so they can choose their beliefs (and preserving one's ancient creed should be part of that).
Also, I was told by someone who lived in the Middle East that there are training camps for boys, who are taken away from their families and brainwashed (not only as far as the West is concerned, but also what acceptable Islam is, how women should be treated, etc).
3) the power of theocracy
In terms of self-preservation, theocracy is probably one of the most successful forms of government, in that it allows the government to use religion as an endorsement. Anywhere where there is misery, poverty, disenchantment, hopelessness, people are bound to be religious because religion offers solace and consolation. Therefore, people are more likely to obey a government which appears to be supported by God and fulfilling God's dicta and less likely to question it.
I don't think suicide bombers come from influential, wealthy families. After all, why hasn't Bin Laden blown himself up already? Wouldn't that make him a greater martyr? It's obvious that the ones to blame the most are not the brainwashed youth, who were conditioned/programmed to believe that what they are doing is right and God-abiding, but the ones who are manipulating them. And these particular men ARE educated (often in North-American or European universities) and much better equipped to realize that what they are doing is by no means what any God would endorse. But they have their own political interests, which have nothing to do with God and everything to do with power.
Lastly, I think that what a previous poster was saying about sexual repression is probably true. And another manner of testosterone release is violence...
Now what preoccupies me is why second-generation youths are turning against their own countries. The vulnerability of adolescence? A combination of lacking direction and our own prejudices?
The power of MEOW
Islamic *type* behavior
ONSEKIZ... As an American, living in a country represented by an idiotic president and his cronies, I know EXACTLY how you feel! There've been a few times in the last six years when I've passed myself off as Canadian when outside the country.
As an American, living in a country represented by an idiotic president and his cronies, I know EXACTLY how you feel! There've been a few times in the last six years when I've passed myself off as Canadian when outside the country.My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
Islamic *type* behavior
(Pssst....they have really HUGE bugs there! Bugs that bite!)
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay